New Training Questions

Training
662

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. The same rules that apply to plyo also applies here: no more than 4 weeks straigth, 2-3 times per year max.[/quote]

Thib,

While this is related more to sports training than it is to aesthetic pursuits, I am wondering how you tend to approach use of plyos and sports that involve regular jumping/having to absorb a lot of force or a high volume of repetitions in a decelerative capacity. This question would apply to things like basketball, volleyball, figure skating (something I briefly asked about on a different front in a prior post), gymnastics (I’ve never competed, but it seems like this is a sport that is inherently hard on the joints), and anything else of that type of nature.

If plyos should be used sparingly as a general rule of thumb, would you be likely to limit use of plyos to a bare minimum (or possibly even cut them out of training sessions) with these types of athletes?

Would there be an increased need to focus on the eccentric phase of “conventional” lower body exercises to work on the capacity to absorb force? And would use of a movement of jump squats still be useful to include in their training without being as “tough” on the body as certain plyo drills?

663

Thib,

For anyone training who does not have one area of gripping strength that is a glaring weakness or a very direct focus on a specific component or two of grip strength, would it be effective to focus on a given component of grip strength for several weeks in a row while doing 1 or 2 sets a week for other areas of grip to maintain them and then rotating the area of emphasis every few weeks?

So basically you’d select special exercises targeting one of the following areas and then cycle through them while keeping the others on maintenance.

  1. Wrist Strength (flexion, extension, radial and ulnar deviation, supination/pronation)
  2. Crushing Grip
  3. Supporting Grip
  4. Pinch Grip

While you can never spread yourself too thinly and hope to become great at many things or everything, this seems like it would be a simple approach that would allow for well-rounded development without getting carried away and trying to work in too much extra grip-focused work in any given week.

664

[quote]ThorsHammer wrote:
Thib,

For anyone training who does not have one area of gripping strength that is a glaring weakness or a very direct focus on a specific component or two of grip strength, would it be effective to focus on a given component of grip strength for several weeks in a row while doing 1 or 2 sets a week for other areas of grip to maintain them and then rotating the area of emphasis every few weeks?

So basically you’d select special exercises targeting one of the following areas and then cycle through them while keeping the others on maintenance.

  1. Wrist Strength (flexion, extension, radial and ulnar deviation, supination/pronation)
  2. Crushing Grip
  3. Supporting Grip
  4. Pinch Grip

While you can never spread yourself too thinly and hope to become great at many things or everything, this seems like it would be a simple approach that would allow for well-rounded development without getting carried away and trying to work in too much extra grip-focused work in any given week.[/quote]

These qualities are all inter-related, so yes, you could train them sequentially using a concentrated (specialized) approach. But I would suggest a logical sequencing:

First phase: overall wrist strength
Second phase: suporting grip + wrist strength maintenance
Third phase: pinch grip + supporting grip maintenance
Fourth phase: cruching grip + supporting grip maintance

665

[quote]BoSoxFever wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. The same rules that apply to plyo also applies here: no more than 4 weeks straigth, 2-3 times per year max.

Thib,

While this is related more to sports training than it is to aesthetic pursuits, I am wondering how you tend to approach use of plyos and sports that involve regular jumping/having to absorb a lot of force or a high volume of repetitions in a decelerative capacity. This question would apply to things like basketball, volleyball, figure skating (something I briefly asked about on a different front in a prior post), gymnastics (I’ve never competed, but it seems like this is a sport that is inherently hard on the joints), and anything else of that type of nature.

If plyos should be used sparingly as a general rule of thumb, would you be likely to limit use of plyos to a bare minimum (or possibly even cut them out of training sessions) with these types of athletes?

Would there be an increased need to focus on the eccentric phase of “conventional” lower body exercises to work on the capacity to absorb force? And would use of a movement of jump squats still be useful to include in their training without being as “tough” on the body as certain plyo drills?
[/quote]

I don’t use plyo in-season with athletes who are already jumping a lot during practice and games (e.g. basketball, volleyball). I will use short phases during the off-season (2 weeks, twice during the period) IF the athlete is not doing a lot of jumps during his off-season practices.

666

Coach, i’ve recently gained an extra day off of work i could dedicate to training. Keeping with all of your outlined principles…

If Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat were the 4 days available how would you advise splitting up training, so as to not make things idiotic? (Saturday i could possibly do two sessions as well.)

Just a quick breakdown if you could to get me thinking, no need for examples, i know your busy. Thanks in advance for any help or insight towards the right direction.

667

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
krsoneeeee wrote:
hey ct - thanks for all previous answers youve given me, very helpful and appreciated.

My question tho, Can/should eccentric dropcatch type exercises be used frequently? so that weights above 1RM can be utilised in the eccentric portion??

cheers
Matt.

  1. in the drop an catch you are not using anywhere near your max on a lift, around 30-50% is the normal, it’s the acceleration of the load before catching it that causes a high force production upon reception.

  2. The same rules that apply to plyo also applies here: no more than 4 weeks straigth, 2-3 times per year max.[/quote]

Coach,

You only recommend utilizing ballistic moves to prime the CNS for max weeks? Do you recommend twitch reps etc and rotating between these activation moves prior to lifting?

Thanks
GJ

668

Thib, what are some of the impressive lifts (bench press, weighted pull-up, squat, deadlift, power clean, etc.) done by the athletes of lighter weight (sub-80KG) you trained ?

669

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, what are some of the impressive lifts (bench press, weighted pull-up, squat, deadlift, power clean, etc.) done by the athletes of lighter weight (sub-80KG) you trained ? [/quote]

To be honest I have not trained a lot of athletes of less than 80kg. I worked mostly with hockey players, football players and the likes and rarely are they under 90kg, let alone 80. Most of the athletes smaller than 80 that I’ve trained were either girls or kids under 18. I have some that I could mention though:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.

A figure skater GIRL of 58kg at 15 years of age who could clean and jerk 80kg, power snatch 60g and deadlift 140kg.

A bodybuilding girl of 58kg (well 57) who could deadlift 140kg x 12 reps (my ex-girlfriend)

A bodybuilding girl of 46kg who could deadlift 130kg and bench press 90kg (bad back)

A former ballet dancer - cirque du soleil artist who could bench press 80kg at 54kg

I also trained with Maryse Turcotte, a 53kg olympic lifter who could clean and jerk 115kg and squat 160kg for reps.

A 79kg running back (he was 5’4’') who could overhead press 140kg for 3 reps, snatch 100kg and bench press 160kg.

Amit Sapir is a bodybuilder that I posted about… in contest shape he is 80kg, so he could count… He bench pressed over 280kg and deadlifted over 350kg

670

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, what are some of the impressive lifts (bench press, weighted pull-up, squat, deadlift, power clean, etc.) done by the athletes of lighter weight (sub-80KG) you trained ?

To be honest I have not trained a lot of athletes of less than 80kg. I worked mostly with hockey players, football players and the likes and rarely are they under 90kg, let alone 80. Most of the athletes smaller than 80 that I’ve trained were either girls or kids under 18. I have some that I could mention though:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.

A figure skater GIRL of 58kg at 15 years of age who could clean and jerk 80kg, power snatch 60g and deadlift 140kg.

A bodybuilding girl of 58kg (well 57) who could deadlift 140kg x 12 reps (my ex-girlfriend)

A bodybuilding girl of 46kg who could deadlift 130kg and bench press 90kg (bad back)

A former ballet dancer - cirque du soleil artist who could bench press 80kg at 54kg

I also trained with Maryse Turcotte, a 53kg olympic lifter who could clean and jerk 115kg and squat 160kg for reps.

A 79kg running back (he was 5’4’') who could overhead press 140kg for 3 reps, snatch 100kg and bench press 160kg.

Amit Sapir is a bodybuilder that I posted about… in contest shape he is 80kg, so he could count… He bench pressed over 280kg and deadlifted over 350kg[/quote]

LOL, that’s a bitchslap for the guys that talk about relative strength.

671

[quote]MEYMZ wrote:
LOL, that’s a bitchslap for the guys that talk about relative strength.[/quote]
When somebody pulls off the ‘‘I’m strong for my weight’’ I almost always think to myself that this is someone who is weak, but is trying to make himself look stronger using words.

To me, you are strong or you are not… period!

Obviously people with more muscle will tend to be stronger… but a Ferrarri will also tend to be faster than a Honda Accord. To me there is no doubt that the Ferrarri is the better, faster car even though the Accord might be ‘‘faster for its cost’’.

Don’t get me wrong. In some instances ‘‘relative strength’’ plays a role… in weight class sports for example. But in real life there are no weight classes…if you get into a bar fight and your opponent is a 300lbs mastodont who knows how to fight, and you are 150lbs then all the ‘‘relative strength’’ in the world won’t save you.

By the same token, if you weigh 150lbs and are in a situation where you must move a 400lbs obstacle and can’t deadlift more than 315 then even though you might be ‘‘strong for your size’’ it wont matter at all, you won’t be able to move the damn rock!

672

If you’re a 150 pound dude getting into bar fights with guys that are 300 lbs, clearly you have some more issues on the table haha

673

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.

[/quote]

Holy crap! He benches that much although lifting is his secondary priority and he must waste time and restorative energy on many other skills and attributes than just max strength… and still he benches more than 99% of powerlifting bench press specialist in the world at that weight will ever bench! Is it not a case of genetic freakness ?

For the reference, Ukranian lifter Olexandr Kutcher who was the top 75 KG lifter a few years ago, benched 192.5 KG GEARED.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MEYMZ wrote:
LOL, that’s a bitchslap for the guys that talk about relative strength.
When somebody pulls off the ‘‘I’m strong for my weight’’ I almost always think to myself that this is someone who is weak, but is trying to make himself look stronger using words.

To me, you are strong or you are not… period!

Obviously people with more muscle will tend to be stronger… but a Ferrarri will also tend to be faster than a Honda Accord. To me there is no doubt that the Ferrarri is the better, faster car even though the Accord might be ‘‘faster for its cost’’.

Don’t get me wrong. In some instances ‘‘relative strength’’ plays a role… in weight class sports for example. But in real life there are no weight classes…if you get into a bar fight and your opponent is a 300lbs mastodont who knows how to fight, and you are 150lbs then all the ‘‘relative strength’’ in the world won’t save you.

By the same token, if you weigh 150lbs and are in a situation where you must move a 400lbs obstacle and can’t deadlift more than 315 then even though you might be ‘‘strong for your size’’ it wont matter at all, you won’t be able to move the damn rock![/quote]

Although I’m small myself and would love to be at least “relatively” stronger than someone, I agree with you.

The only reason I mention my bodyweight with some lift is to show that I’m not a 90 kg guy who could’ve got that result in 5 months of half-assed training. A 100 kg bench at 65 kg bodyweight imply at lest several years of hard and dedicated training, do you agree ?

674

When I read that new article and Waterbury said that thing about Anaconda, I thought that was a secret message that meant it was out! My heart started beating fast and I checked the store and of course it wasn’t there. Can you please stop teasig us? Now after that T-Muscle tease, it would only be ice of you to tell me when it’s coming. Ha. With that said. . . When’s it coming?

675

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, what are some of the impressive lifts (bench press, weighted pull-up, squat, deadlift, power clean, etc.) done by the athletes of lighter weight (sub-80KG) you trained ?

To be honest I have not trained a lot of athletes of less than 80kg. I worked mostly with hockey players, football players and the likes and rarely are they under 90kg, let alone 80. Most of the athletes smaller than 80 that I’ve trained were either girls or kids under 18. I have some that I could mention though:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.

A figure skater GIRL of 58kg at 15 years of age who could clean and jerk 80kg, power snatch 60g and deadlift 140kg.

A bodybuilding girl of 58kg (well 57) who could deadlift 140kg x 12 reps (my ex-girlfriend)

A bodybuilding girl of 46kg who could deadlift 130kg and bench press 90kg (bad back)

A former ballet dancer - cirque du soleil artist who could bench press 80kg at 54kg

I also trained with Maryse Turcotte, a 53kg olympic lifter who could clean and jerk 115kg and squat 160kg for reps.

A 79kg running back (he was 5’4’') who could overhead press 140kg for 3 reps, snatch 100kg and bench press 160kg.

Amit Sapir is a bodybuilder that I posted about… in contest shape he is 80kg, so he could count… He bench pressed over 280kg and deadlifted over 350kg[/quote]

Damn I’m weak.

676

[quote]Marther wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, what are some of the impressive lifts (bench press, weighted pull-up, squat, deadlift, power clean, etc.) done by the athletes of lighter weight (sub-80KG) you trained ?

To be honest I have not trained a lot of athletes of less than 80kg. I worked mostly with hockey players, football players and the likes and rarely are they under 90kg, let alone 80. Most of the athletes smaller than 80 that I’ve trained were either girls or kids under 18. I have some that I could mention though:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.

A figure skater GIRL of 58kg at 15 years of age who could clean and jerk 80kg, power snatch 60g and deadlift 140kg.

A bodybuilding girl of 58kg (well 57) who could deadlift 140kg x 12 reps (my ex-girlfriend)

A bodybuilding girl of 46kg who could deadlift 130kg and bench press 90kg (bad back)

A former ballet dancer - cirque du soleil artist who could bench press 80kg at 54kg

I also trained with Maryse Turcotte, a 53kg olympic lifter who could clean and jerk 115kg and squat 160kg for reps.

A 79kg running back (he was 5’4’') who could overhead press 140kg for 3 reps, snatch 100kg and bench press 160kg.

Amit Sapir is a bodybuilder that I posted about… in contest shape he is 80kg, so he could count… He bench pressed over 280kg and deadlifted over 350kg

Damn I’m weak.[/quote]

euhh same here bro…

677

[quote]BJack wrote:
CT,
I’m pretty sure I grasp your current training philosophy, but one thing still eludes me. How do you progress over time? I’ll be the first to admit I’m still a noob, until fairly recently, I relied on following pre-written programs and, predictably, I got nowhere. But the thing I liked about programs, is that they always had clear parameters on when to increase the weight (e.g. once you get 5x5 add 5 pounds, or once you increase reps by 20% increase weight by 5%). When you train intuitively and work up to a daily max on a lift, how do you get to handle more weight? Do you just keep chugging along until one day you get a PR for 3 reps? Or do you periodically reevaluate you 1RM to determine that you’re lifting at 60-85% intensity? Sorry if this came across as a stupid question, it’s probably really obvious or assumed, but I simply don’t understand.

Thank you for your time,
BJack[/quote]

This isn’t a stupid question, in fact, I would like to know this myself.

678

You have said that for some people, increasing the width of ones grip on the bench press would change the exercise from a triceps dominant one to more of a chest stimulating exercise. Who fits into that category?

I was wondering this because the article How Tall Guys Get Jacked says that tall people would benefit from bringing their grip closer together. I am 6 foot even and bench wide.

Thanks for your reply!

679

CT, I know your training philosophies change from time to time whenever you experiment and come up with new and more exciting techniques. My question might seem odd but I remember that a couple of years ago I believe it was in your refined transformation article, you wrote that if you could go back and change the way you trained back then, things would have turned for the better.

How do you feel now? I love being updated when it comes to new research or theories. I guess you are somewhat of a portal that I feel I can trust whenever I want to stay in touch with a certain training discipline. For instance, would you advise T-Nation newcomers to read and try the programs you wrote in some of your previous OLDER articles? Or let’s say would it be optimal for a beginner to go trough your “Training for newbies” series when constructing a program? How far should we look into your work, and what should we put behind us?

Is there anything you can honestly say, doesn’t work and shouldn’t be bothered with if you are seeking to optimize either strength or hypertrophy goals?

In the light of everything that has been taught to us by you, do you feel we have entered a new “era” of training (autoregulation, peri-workout importance, activation)? I know you’ve said that this is the way old-timers used to train and that you were dumbfounded that this information wasn’t as “chic” as it should be.

I know it’s an odd question, but it feels like I need to know on what page in the “book” I am.

680

[quote]Montenegro wrote:
If you’re a 150 pound dude getting into bar fights with guys that are 300 lbs, clearly you have some more issues on the table haha[/quote]

A good friend of mine is a 300lbs strongman competitor and everytime he goes out some small kid try to pick a fight with him…

681

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

A bobsleigh guy who was 77kg on 5’8’'. Bench pressed 190kg and could squat well over 230kg for reps.
[/quote]

His 190 was with a shirt, only time he tried one. But his best non-shirted max is 182.kg