New Training Questions

Training
562

[quote]Addict3d wrote:
So how many sets do you do for a typical workout? Meaning how many are warm ups and how many are working sets roughly. [/quote]

Between 1 and 20 sets per exercise… I honestly can’t give you a better answer because I autoregulate everything. The number of sets will always be determined by my physiological state on that day.

For example, on some days I might need more feel sets (I do not do warm-ups in the traditional sense) to get into the movement’s grove; on some other I might need only one.

On some days I might need to do a lot of activation work because my CNS is not aroused; on some others I might not need any activation work because my CNS i already firing on all cylinders.

On some days I might be able to ramp up to 9-10 sets because my strength is good on that day; on some others I’ll have to stop the ramp at 3 sets.

Heck, sometimes I can even drop an exercise after 1 set if I don’t feel it.

To me you can’t follow a written program to the letter because there is no way to predict where your physiology will be on each day. So there is no way of predicting the exact amount of work that your body will require on a day.

563

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
hckyman147 wrote:
Coach T,

When squatting, should the max depth for an athlete be where the pelvis tucks underneath (ass to heels), or when the arch in the back begins to round?

Thanks coach,
hckyman

Only go down as low as you can without losing lower back arch.

What if doing that doesn’t allow much range of motion?

I can’t seem to bend down at a shoulder-width stance. Why do you believe that is? I am 5’8 (not very tall) and I don’t think that my legs are so long compared to my torso. That stance is what hits the quads most.

Thank you.[/quote]

Probably rectus femoris, psoas and/or ankle flexibility problems.

564

[quote]Addict3d wrote:
dayne_lathrop wrote:
Addict3d wrote:
So how many sets do you do for a typical workout? Meaning how many are warm ups and how many are working sets roughly.

i dont know if you were asking me, but if so

i just usually start at around 60 % of my one rep max for each exercise, then slowly ramp up till i cant get that number of reps anymore without grinding the reps. i usually do 1-2 “feel sets” before i start the 60%. i have done as many as like 10-12 maybe even 15 sets for each exercise depending on what i am doing. sometimes if i dont feel like increasing weight by small incriments i will do 2 sets of the same weight, then jump up for example

set 1- 60%
set 2- 60%
set 3- 65%
set 4- 65%
set 5 -70%
set 6- 70%
set 7 -75%
set 8 -75%
set 9- 80%
set 10-80%
set 11-85%
set 12-85%
(sometimes) set 13- 90%

in regards to that last set- lets say i am doing bench for sets of 3, that last set i might only do 2, because i know i wouldnt be able to accelerate the bar fast enough on the 3rd rep and i would be grinding the rep. so i would say just feel it out. and if its sets of 5, that last set might be 4 reps. just depends.

oh, by the way, sorry if i just wasted your time and you were asking CT, and not me.

It was for CT, but that helps out some too. My problem is this, for example on my chest or back days I usually stick to 4-5 exercises. So do I do the 12-15 sets or however many it takes for all of them? That could result in 60 sets a on one muscl,e even though many of them are warms up.
[/quote]

  1. Rarely will you ramp up with 8+ sets. The 10-12 sets ramps are when you do a DOUBLE RAMP (two sets of the same weight before going up). In a regular ramp, which you should use more of the time, you only do a certain weight once. So if you start at 60% and work up to 85-90% you will rarely have more than 6 sets this way, unless you are in great shape and can keep adding weight (which is a good thing).

A double ramp is only used when you are doing 1 exercise per muscle group.

  1. Autoregulation means that you most stop the exercise/workout when performance declines. So you would not reach that 50-60 sets mark because your working state would worsen. As soon as you feel like you don’t have it, stop.
565

[quote]eggers wrote:
If doing a spec phase (3 out of 5 lifting days a week), do you think that your high-volume autoregulation, performed once a week for non-spec bodyparts, is sufficient to maintain those muscles?[/quote]

It’s actually likely to be too much.

566

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
I assume it would be effective to change intensity every week : 70,75,80,85% to practice all the ranges of force spectrum ?

Would you limit this type of work by time though ? If I go as long as I’m explosive it can turn into marathon for like 30 minutes and 20-30 sets!

  1. No no no no… you are not really getting this. Stay in the 70-85% range (I even prefer 60-85%) but ALWAYS RAMP UP THE WEIGHT until you FIND THE MAX WEIGHT THAT YOU CAN STILL ACCELERATE/DOMINATE.

With this type of workout that’s where you stop.

You can use double-ramping if you want more volume (two sets at the same weight before going up) but that’s it.

A workout could look like this (assuming a 235lbs bench press max)

Set 1 - 85lbs x 3 (feel set OR twitch reps)
Set 2 - 115lbs x 3 (feel set OR twitch reps)
Set 3 - 135lbs x 3
Set 4 - 135lbs x 3
Set 5 - 145lbs x 3
Set 6 - 145lbs x 3
Set 7 - 155lbs x 3
Set 8 - 155lbs x 3
Set 9 - 170lbs x 3
Set 10 - 170lbs x 3
Set 11 - 185lbs x 3
Set 12 - 185lbs x 3
Set 13 - 200lbs x 3
Set 14 - 200lbs x 3
Set 15 - 215lbs x 2 (second rep was starting to be slower, stop the exercise)

  1. The end of the workout is when you can’t accerate, but that only works well if you are gradually ramping up the weight.[/quote]

But isn’t this regular ramping ? Of course I understand it after the million times you have explained it…

I was asking about dynamic work with a lot of straight sets. Along the lines of what you gave in your vertical pressing template :

“B. Military press 75-80% of your max for sets of 2 explosive reps. Rest for around 30 seconds and stop the sets when you lose speed”

567

I train at 4:30 a.m. and have been recently trying to increase my pull ups/ chins. I do them first in my lat workouts but find that they are very tough from the beginning since I train early in the morning. What is a good way to get my body ready to do the pullups? How would I use twitch reps for pulls ups and chins? Thanks

568

Your transformationn and articles regardign it are absolutely amazing.

If the V-Diet had been available at the time of your transformation do you think that it would have been a viable option for the first phase? Why or why not.

Thanks

N

569

is there ever any need to give the CNS a break by doing higher rep work or can you just keep training with low reps as long as you auto-regulate.

570

[quote]narives wrote:
Your transformationn and articles regardign it are absolutely amazing.

If the V-Diet had been available at the time of your transformation do you think that it would have been a viable option for the first phase? Why or why not.

Thanks

N[/quote]

This is something I actually told Shugs a while ago. When I dieted down for the first time I did something that was actually close to the V-Diet for a short while. I basically lived on Low Carbs Metabolic Drive (it was called Grow back then). Not so much because I thought that it would be a good idea but simply because I was a poor college student with no cooking skills. I barely made enough money to buy food, but lucky for me, the few articles I published on T-Nation at the time allowed me to receive a monthly care package which contained 3 tubs of the protein.

Did it work? Well, I did lose fat… so I guess it worked. Would I do it again or recommend it? Honestly, except for some exception cases I wouldn’t.

First or all I honestly believe that real food will always be superior to powders except for some special times (peri-workout for example):

  • more micronutrients (vitamins, mineral, oligoelements, etc.)
  • it takes more energy to digest
  • most of the time it is better to prevent hunger
  • etc.

I understand Shugs theory that the V-diet helps people get over cravings… because you basically learn to live without food. But in many peoples I find that it actually reinforce negative behaviors, borderline eating disorders.

571

Coach, I have two questions for you.

  1. I recently gave Surge Workout Fuel a try. I took 1 scoop 30 mins before the workout followed by SR 15 mins before the workout and got in more SR half way through. Is there a specific/tangible effect I should be experiencing with SWF? I did not notice any increased work capacity/energy, increased pump or an increased desire to do more work.

  2. In an earlier post, you mentioned that there are days you are able to ramp for 9 sets, and some days for 3 sets. Assuming that you usually start at 60% of your max, what kind of jumps are you making? It would seem that you are making huge jumps with 3 set ramps, and smaller jumps at the 9 set ramp. I’m having a difficult time understanding the logic behind this, so any clarification would be very helpful.

Thanks Coach,

MM

572

Coach,

Shouldn’t the nervous system already be activated enough after ramping the primary exercise for a muscle to go heavy right away on the secondary exercise? Say for a chest workout the primary exercise is barbell bench press and the secondary is a DB bench variation, why is it necessary to ramp the secondary exercise as well? Is it because its a different movement pattern and the nervous system must be primed again or is there much more to it?

573

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
eggers wrote:
If doing a spec phase (3 out of 5 lifting days a week), do you think that your high-volume autoregulation, performed once a week for non-spec bodyparts, is sufficient to maintain those muscles?

It’s actually likely to be too much.[/quote]

Thanks for the response.

574

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
vcjha wrote:
Dont know where this question would go, but ever since I started training very intensely: (2 slow and controlled bench press sets of 12, 20 reps of heavy slow deep breathing squats, 1 set of 20 heavy dumbbell pullovers, and 2 sets of painful bent-over back rows due to high stress from squats) three days a week, I have been getting headaches after the squats that make me want to puke. I’ve tried pushing through the w/o but my gym has a policy to take me to the hospital if I pass out or throw up, which is embarassing.

I’ve talked to people and I’ve gotten two suggestions which are no help at all: replenish potassium daily with oranges or orange juice, and be sure to consume carbs before w/o. Can I get any advice from you for this?

This workout is about as far as humanly possible as what I would recommend. In fact, besides exercises selection I don’t like anything about that workout.
[/quote]

didnt expect that answer, but thanks. I now have two more questions: 1. Guess I should have chosen my words more wisely, but do you have any advice for ridding of w/o headaches? and two, the person who wrote this program is montrous, and writes over and over again he doesn’t present any bs. His name is Mike Buckinson. So from a physiological standpoint of view and your honest opinion, is his program hindering or slowing me down from what I could have gained? Please keep in mind I sometimes feel I cannot follow the w/o programs here because most require a good per-workout nutrition protocol, which I really don’t have extra money for.

575

Thib,

I have two questions.

  1. For grip training, do you think it is preferable to do brief and frequent isolated grip work (either after a session or as a separate mini session, provided that this work won’t interfere with any deadlift or other pulling work) or to combine grip work with other training by implementing an enhanced grip component in various movements? I would think that, save for sports where grip is even more of a limiting factor than it already is normally, such as sports involving grappling, that isolated work would give the benefits without cutting into work on other areas. Just curious how you feel on this issue.

For example, some might work finger strength by using Eagles Loops from Ironmind to perform rows, chin-ups, and things of that nature, but I would personally prefer to hook them to some loading pins and do holds for time or even modified Farmer’s walks with them. This is what I mean when I say isolated versus combining training.

  1. Are there any instances where you’d still use 1 and 1/4 or 1 and 1/2 reps on compounds movements?

Hope all is well, coach.

576

Hey CT
I just read 3 of the best articles you have written in my opinion and now I feel bad because I could have just read these articles instead of asking you questions. I realized as I was reading these articles that you must be tired of talking about high threshold motor units, auto-regulation and ramping and bilateral vs unilateral work.

Thank you for your patience

P.S. Guys read these articles before posting the same questions over and over. Also buy Thibs book on high threshold muscle building :slight_smile:

1.Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

  1. Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

  2. Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION

577

Hey CT,

How do you decide what your target rep number for the day is going to be when ramping? If you get stuck at a certain max weight for a set number of reps do you switch reps or change something else?

Thanks

578

[quote]bwells wrote:
Hey CT,

How do you decide what your target rep number for the day is going to be when ramping? If you get stuck at a certain max weight for a set number of reps do you switch reps or change something else?

Thanks[/quote]

When ramping you rarely get stuck, at least not for long, because you are giving you body exactly what it needs and is capable of doing.

That having been said, I do not always add weight at every single session… I would be bench pressing 2000lbs by now! Generally out of 10 workouts I’ll improve/add weight 5 times, will repeat a weight I already achieved 3 times and will actually turn in a worse performance twice. But the goal is long term progress.

Anyway, regarding your question, I PERSONALLY respond better to sets of 2 to 5 reps, so most of the time I’m training in that zone. The way I vary the number of reps is arbitrary. As long as you know how to perform the perfect rep (it IS much harder than all of you think. It took Mighty_Stu, ACTrain, Nate Green and his partner Kyle who are all very experienced, 4 whole days to grasp exactly what I call a perfect rep) then you will be able to stimulate growth.

579

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
bwells wrote:
Hey CT,

How do you decide what your target rep number for the day is going to be when ramping? If you get stuck at a certain max weight for a set number of reps do you switch reps or change something else?

Thanks

When ramping you rarely get stuck, at least not for long, because you are giving you body exactly what it needs and is capable of doing.

That having been said, I do not always add weight at every single session… I would be bench pressing 2000lbs by now! Generally out of 10 workouts I’ll improve/add weight 5 times, will repeat a weight I already achieved 3 times and will actually turn in a worse performance twice. But the goal is long term progress.

Anyway, regarding your question, I PERSONALLY respond better to sets of 2 to 5 reps, so most of the time I’m training in that zone. The way I vary the number of reps is arbitrary. As long as you know how to perform the perfect rep (it IS much harder than all of you think. It took Mighty_Stu, ACTrain, Nate Green and his partner Kyle who are all very experienced, 4 whole days to grasp exactly what I call a perfect rep) then you will be able to stimulate growth.[/quote]

I know your thoughts on heavy weight and I agree, but at some time, it seems like high reps (8-15) are needed (or can be beneficial). What are your thoughts with transitioning from high reps to low and back again? I personally feel heavy weight is better, but bodybuilders all over have been building good bodies doing high reps.

Thank you.

580

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
bwells wrote:
Hey CT,

How do you decide what your target rep number for the day is going to be when ramping? If you get stuck at a certain max weight for a set number of reps do you switch reps or change something else?

Thanks

When ramping you rarely get stuck, at least not for long, because you are giving you body exactly what it needs and is capable of doing.

That having been said, I do not always add weight at every single session… I would be bench pressing 2000lbs by now! Generally out of 10 workouts I’ll improve/add weight 5 times, will repeat a weight I already achieved 3 times and will actually turn in a worse performance twice. But the goal is long term progress.

Anyway, regarding your question, I PERSONALLY respond better to sets of 2 to 5 reps, so most of the time I’m training in that zone. The way I vary the number of reps is arbitrary. As long as you know how to perform the perfect rep (it IS much harder than all of you think. It took Mighty_Stu, ACTrain, Nate Green and his partner Kyle who are all very experienced, 4 whole days to grasp exactly what I call a perfect rep) then you will be able to stimulate growth.

I know your thoughts on heavy weight and I agree, but at some time, it seems like high reps (8-15) are needed (or can be beneficial). What are your thoughts with transitioning from high reps to low and back again? I personally feel heavy weight is better, but bodybuilders all over have been building good bodies doing high reps.

Thank you.
[/quote]

The number of reps is not that relevant believe it or not. A set is simply an occasion to get a lot of perfect reps (read my post “Why I, BODYBUILDER is not that important” for more on that). The issue I have with higher reps is that each ‘perfect rep’ takes it out of ya because it maximizes fast-twitch involvement, so by rep no.5 or so, if you have been doing perfect reps like I mean you to do, then there is no way to continue targeting those fast-twitch fibers optimally. It’s basically a matter of fatigue preventing the performance of the perfect rep.

Now, if a bodybuilder naturally does a lot of things right regarding how they perform a rep (and most of the big guys instinctively do a lot of things right) then even if they are doing high reps, they still get some perfect reps on each set which will stimulate growth… it’s just that they are causing much more fatigue and doing a lot more work to basically get the same effect.

Obviously that means that it will be harder to recover from that workout. Which is why genetic freaks and individual using drugs might still be able to grow optimally, because they have enhanced capacities to recover.

581

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
bwells wrote:
Hey CT,

How do you decide what your target rep number for the day is going to be when ramping? If you get stuck at a certain max weight for a set number of reps do you switch reps or change something else?

Thanks

When ramping you rarely get stuck, at least not for long, because you are giving you body exactly what it needs and is capable of doing.

That having been said, I do not always add weight at every single session… I would be bench pressing 2000lbs by now! Generally out of 10 workouts I’ll improve/add weight 5 times, will repeat a weight I already achieved 3 times and will actually turn in a worse performance twice. But the goal is long term progress.

Anyway, regarding your question, I PERSONALLY respond better to sets of 2 to 5 reps, so most of the time I’m training in that zone. The way I vary the number of reps is arbitrary. As long as you know how to perform the perfect rep (it IS much harder than all of you think. It took Mighty_Stu, ACTrain, Nate Green and his partner Kyle who are all very experienced, 4 whole days to grasp exactly what I call a perfect rep) then you will be able to stimulate growth.[/quote]

could you explain what makes a perfect bench rep? or is it too complex/must be coached