New Training Questions

Training
202

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
threewhitelights wrote:
Question on blast isometrics…

So I’m planning my next shoulder/tri/chest specialization phase, with the goal being to bring my push press max up for competition (strongman). I start slowing down around nose level and fail right above my forehead, so I was thinking about doing some iso holds (pushing against pins) after my DE Military Press for assistance.

After seeing the video, I’m considering doing blast iso’s instead, as it seems like that would better stimulate the CNS without destroying it for my max effort day. You used them mostly as an activation exercise, but would it make sense to do 3-4 sets of 3 at different heights (nose to forehead) right after some speed reps?

Also, I’ve based a lot of my training around what you write here and in your books, but I was wondering with the way all your views on training have changed and advanced, will you be writing another book at some point?

I might, right now I have a lot on my plate, but never say never.

As for your vertical pressing work you could do:

DAY 1 HEAVY ACTIVATION

A. Top half shoulder press from pins (from just above the top of your head)

  • Ramp up to one maximal set of 3 reps (ramping means that you always use the same number of reps but gradually increase the weight ntil you reach your max for that number of reps)

B. Standing military press
Sets of 3 reps starting at 70%, ramp up to the max you can lift for 3 reps

C. Push press
Sets of 3 reps… start with 20lbs less than you ended up on the military and ramp up to the max you can do for 3 reps

DAY 2 DYNAMIC ACTIVATON

A. Military press blast iso (from shin to eye level)
Sets of 3 reps starting with 60% of your max, work up to the max weight that you can SLAM and HOLD for 1-2 seconds on the pins

B. Military press 75-80% of your max for sets of 2 explosive reps. Rest for around 30 seconds and stop the sets when you lose speed

C. High incline bench press
Sets of 3 reps starting at 70%, ramp up to the max you can lift for 3 reps

DAY 3 CONTRAST ACTIVATION

A1. Miitary press twitch reps (high speed partial reps from mouth level to eyes level)
Sets of 5-9 seconds, ramp up the weight until you stop to lose speed

A2. Push press
Sets of 3 reps, start at 70% of your max and ramp up until you reach your max for 3 reps

B1. Blast iso military press
same as Day 2

B2. Military press
Sets of 3 reps, start at 70% of your max and ramp up until you reach your max for 3 reps[/quote]

Thib, that seems like a really nice quick and dirty routine.

What could be done instead of push press if this was a bench press (horizontal pushing) programme ?

Also, what could be done if there is no possibility for blast isos ?

203

hey coach

I’m from poland and the only supps i got are a good weight gainer (vitalmax gainer 2) and whey protein (optimum nutrition gold star) and my regimen so far looked somethn like this.

pre workout
apple or orange + walnuts or almonds

post workout

  • immediately 110g weight gainer (it’s about ~85g carbs from dextrose and maltodextrin and 25g whey) + 24g wheyprotein comin from 30g of goldstar + 5g creatine monohydrate
  • 30 to 60 minutes later same story but without the creatine

my results are pretty decent so far, but is there a way you would adjust this protocol having said that the gainer, the whey power and the creatine mono is the only thing i got available here?

i have also got some protein85 lying around here, this typical casein, egg, whey mix whatever but i don’t take it that often, maybe before bed if i have no cottage cheese in the refridge

maybe i should also add that i handle carbs very well, my backskinfold (subscapular or how it is called) is always very thin even though i dont think this adds much of a importance if it comes to postworkout nutrition.

204

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
CT

How do you approach finding appropriate volume loads for new athletes coming to you who also have to deal with long and hard conditioning/field practices (say, football)? How do you work from the starting point?

What are the indicators or benchmarks you favor to determine whether an athlete should increase volume or load? Particularly if you do not have full control over all aspects of outside-of-the-weight-room training (as in say a collegiate/pro football player)?

Yes, I know that usually collegiate athletes have a S/C coach that oversees them and talks with the coaching staff. I’m wondering for a general approach.

With autoregulation it is SO EASY!!!

  1. Pick your intensity zone for that day (e.g 5 reps)

  2. Start an exercise with 60% (true starting point regardless of the intensity zone, unless it is super high reps, which you shouldn’t use anyway) of your max and do the selected number of reps (5), always focusing on lifting with as much acceleration as you can with the selected weight

  3. At the conclusion of each set you can either add more weight (if the set was complete and all reps were solid) or stop the exercise (if you can’t complete the number of reps, can’t add more weight on the next set or are starting to see technique problems)

With this method the volume and load will always be adjusted to the athlete’s capacity on that day. If he is in great condition after a few days of rest, he might ramp up for 6-7 sets.

If he is coming to the gym after a track session he might only be able to get 3.

But regardless of how many sets he does and what top weight he reaches, the effort will be maximal (optimal) for the capacities he has on that day.[/quote]

Thanks! That makes sense. What about speed-strength or strength-speed? I see what you mean with the example above, but it seems to me an intensity zone (5,3 1 reps) taken to maximal load for an athlete’s capacity might preclude explosive training. I suppose with Olympic based movements that is not a problem because maximal weight handled is dependent more on technique and explosive power than “brute” strength, but what about other speed or power drills/exercises where load might not be above 60% 1RM but CNS demand might still be high?

Easiest example I can think of would be speed deadlifts or speed squats with bands or chains, or any kind of demanding plyometric. Or maybe you’re not a fan of using Louie Simmons style DE movements in athletic training (which I could understand)?

205

Hi Coach

I want to remain at my current weight for sport reasons, but want to get much stronger/leaner/more explosive. Which of your programs should I do (Get Jacked Fast, High Threshold Muscle Building etc) I can’t seem to tell the difference between them after reading the blurb for each.

Also, will any of these be far too much work on the body if doing martial arts as well?

Regards

Ciz

206

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joe1981 wrote:
Would changing the rep ranges from my AM to PM workouts work? 30 minute workouts two times a day and add more time as I progress? 3-4 times a week? Thanks CT!

It’s more about autoregulation and activation.

Train the same muscle group(s) on the two sessions.

The first session should be mostly activation work:

  • twitch reps
  • blast isometrics
  • explosive lifting
  • jumps and throws
  • heavy partial lifts from the stretch-relax position (e.g. bench press from pins 6’’ from the chest)
  • Sets of 2-3 explosive reps with 80-85% of your max
  • variations of the olympic lifts

The second session should make use of autoregulation by using ‘force spectrum loading’ (ramping while focusing on accelerating each rep as much as you can).

  • Do sets of 5 reps
  • Start with 60% of your max on the lift
  • Add weight progressively on each set, when you can’t add more weight, stop the exercise.
  • Basically at the conclusion of every set you have two choices: add weight or stop if you can’t.[/quote]

Question for coach Tribaudeau:

I am 9 weeks out from a competition. Allready wel under 5% bf. bodyweigt 218 pounds.Never was a big fan of cardio, can I use a following example in a pre comp fase? for instance:
Split: DAY1: back,bic ; DAY2: chest,sh,tric ; DAY3: legs; DAY4 rest; DAY5 repeat
EArly morning upon awekening: -40 1 scoop Surge fuel
-15 1 scoop Surge recovery
-ACTIVATION workout
-during workout 20 gram pepto pro+5gr leucine
+60 20gr peptopro+ 5gr leucine
+90 300gr white fish+ green veggies

During the day till 7pm 2 or 3 meals, with protein pulsing( depending on hunger). Only lean protein sources 50gr + green veggies.
Around 7pm: same as before morning workout, but instead activation work, 1 exerc per bodypart ramping up the weight from 60% and up for 5 reps. +90 min 250 steak + veggies.
How does this look coach Trib? Or would you use only the pre workout protokol(then double) before the 2nd workout of the day? Thanx

207

Thanks for the response CT I appreciate it. I am amazed how even the most basic questions that are posed where others would view them as commonsensical you on the other hand provide indepth scientific analysis. I wonder when people will have to start adressing you as Doctor (PHd any time soon)? If you ever have a seminar out in Vancouver, BC I hope you post it on tnation because I would love to go.

208

Hey CT,
I have been implementing accelerating the weight as quickly as possible and ramping up starting at 60% of my max and realy enjoy it. I have a few question.

  1. Just curious, Do you get sore from ramp up training? I know being whether a person is sore or not has nothing to do with how good the workout was/is.
  2. how much should a person increase the load on each set?
  3. should it be a small increase( 5-10lbs)or a larger increase( 15-20lbs).
  4. does the muscle group you are training factor into how much you increase the load, for example, 5-10lbs for upper body and 10-20lbs for lower body, or does it not matter?

thanks for your time,
teebone2223

209

[quote]teebone2223 wrote:

  1. Just curious, Do you get sore from ramp up training? I know being whether a person is sore or not has nothing to do with how good the workout was/is. [/quote]

I get tight, but rarely sore. Except for the back, ever since I began using co-contraction training and twitch reps my lats get sore. I take it as a good thing because my lats have always been my weak point, probably because I wasn’t able to optimally recruit the high threshold motor units in that group.

But then again it would also depend on the number of exercises and the total workload (I truly believe that soreness is associated to training workload).

So for example if I were to ramp up 5 exercises for chest, and that each ramp had 6 sets, 3 of which being heavy, I’m sure that my pecs would kill me the next day.

But if I do a smarter workout I normally feel my muscles being tight, but not sore.

[quote]teebone2223 wrote:

  1. how much should a person increase the load on each set? [/quote]

Start at around 10% of your max on a lift, rounded to the nearest ten (e.g. a max of 230lbs would have 23lbs as its 10%, which we would round down to 20lbs).

The increase varies from half the base increase up to 1.5 the base increase.

So in our example the jumps from set to set can be 10, 20 or 30lbs.

Most of the time 20lbs would be the norm (in that case), only add 30 if the previous set felt too easy, even with proper acceleration, and only go down to a 10lbs increase if you know that you can get 10 more pounds but wouldn’t get 20 more.

OR you can vary your set to set progression depending on the goal you are after.

E.g. if you are strong, but lack power (speed-strength) you might want to spend more time in the high speed-strength zone (60 to roughly 75%) and less time in the limit strength zone.

So let’s assume a max of 300lbs on the bench.

A normal spectrum would look like this:

180lbs x 5, 200lbs x 5, 220lbs x 5, 240lbs x 5, 260lbs x 5, 270lbs x 5 (tough set, end of exercise)

A spectrum focusing on the acceleration end could look like:

180lbs x 5, 190lbs x 5, 200lbs x 5, 220lbs x 5, 250lbs x 5, 270lbs x 5 (tough set, end of exercise)

On the other end, someone with a lot of power and explosiveness but who lacks strength might spend more time in the limit strength zone of the spectrum. For example:

180lbs x 5, 210lbs x 5, 240lbs x 5, 250lbs x 5, 260lbs x 5, 270lbs x 5 (tough set, end of exercise)

[quote]teebone2223 wrote:

  1. should it be a small increase( 5-10lbs)or a larger increase( 15-20lbs).[/quote]

It depends on the exercise. A 5lbs increase per side on DB curls make sense if you curl 50lbs dumbbells; but doesn’t make much sense on the leg press if you can do 800lbs!!! With 5lbs increase, if you start at 60% you’d have to do around 97 sets to reach that top set.

On the other hand, a 30lbs increase per set if you can barbell curl 100lbs doesn’t make sense either.

[quote]teebone2223 wrote:

  1. does the muscle group you are training factor into how much you increase the load, for example, 5-10lbs for upper body and 10-20lbs for lower body, or does it not matter?

thanks for your time,
teebone2223 [/quote]

Indirectly… the stronger your lift is, the bigger the increase per set.

210

hey CT whats up…i have been lifting for a year consistently and have had some decent gains, probably around 13 pounds. Diet is rather clean and eat enough for 2 people My lifts are going up decently, but my appearence to me isnt up to par with what id like. I usually stay around the 6-7 rep range for most of my lifts, but recently i have read on a T-Nation article that staying around 6-12 reps is ideal for mass and size. Whats your opinion on this because i was always told that 6 reps was ideal for size. Should i bump up my reps a little higher and lighten the load a tiny bit or stick with the 6-7 reps. If lifting less weight would actually give me more mass im all for it ha.

211

hey Thibs, i was thinking about doing some gpp type work to strengthen endurance levels and whatnot. or maybe just a sort of ‘metabolic day’ at the gym. do you have any kick-ass circuit routines or barbell complexes you know of that’ll make you cough up a lung and leave a puddle on the floor while getting you in better shape?

212

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
While our program will include basic guidelines, when ramping up I don’t like prescribing a number of sets. You start at 60% of your max and gradually work your way up until you reach the max weight you can do for the prescribed number of reps. If you are in good form, you might be able to ramp fo 6-7 sets (sometimes more) and one some days you might only get 3. That is the beauty of ramping: the volume and the weight are automatically adjusted to what you can do on that day. [/quote]
What should we do if we use antagonist pairings, and in one of the exercises we reach that max set for the prescribed reps earlier than the other exercise?
(I know that we somehow should select the proper weights to avoid that, but sometimes it happens)

Should we just continue with the one exercise left, until we reach that max set in this exercise too, or something else?

Thanks in advance

213

[quote]BRaWNy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
While our program will include basic guidelines, when ramping up I don’t like prescribing a number of sets. You start at 60% of your max and gradually work your way up until you reach the max weight you can do for the prescribed number of reps. If you are in good form, you might be able to ramp fo 6-7 sets (sometimes more) and one some days you might only get 3. That is the beauty of ramping: the volume and the weight are automatically adjusted to what you can do on that day.
What should we do if we use antagonist pairings, and in one of the exercises we reach that max set for the prescribed reps earlier than the other exercise?
(I know that we somehow should select the proper weights to avoid that, but sometimes it happens)

Should we just continue with the one exercise left, until we reach that max set in this exercise too, or something else?

Thanks in advance[/quote]

It’s not so much about mis-selection of the weight (unless you only get 2 sets of an exercise and 10 of the other one!), pulling/flexion and pushing/extension muscles seem to respond differently to training in ways that we have just began discovering. So it is not uncommon to fail at one antagonist exercise sooner than the other.

In that case, autoregulation calls for stopping the “topped out” movement and continuing on with the other, maybe stretching the rest intervals a bit.

Unless for some reason your performance really sucked and you only did 2-3 sets before hitting the wall. In that case you could wave the weight back down and bring it back up.

214

[quote]matty51189 wrote:
hey CT whats up…i have been lifting for a year consistently and have had some decent gains, probably around 13 pounds. Diet is rather clean and eat enough for 2 people My lifts are going up decently, but my appearence to me isnt up to par with what id like. I usually stay around the 6-7 rep range for most of my lifts, but recently i have read on a T-Nation article that staying around 6-12 reps is ideal for mass and size. Whats your opinion on this because i was always told that 6 reps was ideal for size. Should i bump up my reps a little higher and lighten the load a tiny bit or stick with the 6-7 reps. If lifting less weight would actually give me more mass im all for it ha.[/quote]

Honestly, I rarely if ever go above 5 reps myself. I use up to 8 reps (sometimes sets of 10, but rarely) with my clients. I’d rather do more sets of lower reps than sets of high reps.

215

Thib,

How would you go about training a shot put thrower 3 months prior to the event? Would you use heavy lifting throughout the 3 months or limit it and use more dynamic/explosive work instead?

216

Thib, is the spec template that you shared for vertical pushing applicable for most other movement spec phases ?

It calls for ramping up to 3RM on 1-2 movements on each day, and even the light explosive day has 1 heavy-loaded movement…

While I’d be very glad to try such set-up, I’m trying to understand what is the reasoning behind it, because recently you have told me that you shouldn’t go close to 90% more than once a week on the one same movement, and this template actually calls for TWO potentially 87-92% movements for the same muscle groups…

217

CT,

If your client would have severely underdeveloped lower traps compared to his upper- and middle traps how would proceed to correct this? I have this problem myself although I have recently focused in vertical pulling exercises. Thanks in advance.

218

[quote]Aneesh Varma wrote:
Thib,

How would you go about training a shot put thrower 3 months prior to the event? Would you use heavy lifting throughout the 3 months or limit it and use more dynamic/explosive work instead? [/quote]

The training would depend on the individual’s capacities and needs. But I wouldn’t drop heavy work until 7-10 days (last heavy squat 10 days, last heavy bench 7 days) before the contest.

219

Hey Coach

What does the current research say on postworkout or during workout static stretching?
In the past it was recommended to perhaps increase muscle fiber length and size, any truth to that still?
I know Poliquin still advocates antagonist stretching at this time and that does help the thighs.

Also, I respond very well to reverse grip bench, but it is hard on my wrist and shoulders, when I do close grip I really don’t feel any tricep response.
Any tips to make this more effective. Would I respond better to lock outs or floor presses or what gives??
Nosebusters and dips obviously always help but I really want to get this closegrip thing fixed.

FYI when I am performing them my hands are at the outside edges of the smooth part of the bar with my index at that smooth to rough line, elbow in and they stay in the entire time as much as possible.

thanks

220

Hi, Thib. I have a handful of questions for you.

I noticed in a few of your posts about ramping that you mention “feel sets.” When beginning to work up on an exercise, what weight should the first set start at (essentially what would have been considered the first “warm-up” set)?

From there, how do you determine by approximately how much to bump up the weight on the bar for the next set and how long to wait before attempting it (I’m assuming this is related to whatever is needed to maintain performance)? And at what approximate percentage do feel sets begin to be considered “work” sets?

With your emphasis on techniques like ramping, what is your current position on movements like reverse hypers and pull throughs or even lateral raises and rear delt raises (amongst others) that were traditionally regarded as movements to be done for relatively higher reps (in the 8-12 or even 15 range)? Should movements like this also be shifted to lower rep ranges and the mindset about using them for relatively higher reps cast aside?

For shoulder development, the lateral and posterior delts are often said to be lagging in many lifters (especially the lateral delts). Would neutral grip DB OH presses or even a neutral-grip bar OH press allow for more balanced development of the shoulder complex, even without accessory work? Or would it still leave the lateral and posterior delts lagging in the same way barbell OH presses might?

Lastly, as a former Oly lifter, what is your general take about the relative usefulness of Oly lift variations for adding size (or at least increasing the potential for adding size) to the delts?

Hope all is well!

221

If you don’t have a power rack with 2 sets of pins, go out and buy 2 shipping straps made of webbing (home depot, harbor freight, etc), attach them to heavy dumbbells and around the barbell. Then you can adjust the height of the iso, etc, and won’t damage the bar. This is what I plan on doing when I start using them.