New Program Needs

Diet and Nutrition
1

Hello Everyone,

ALthough I have been reading items on this site for some time I have finally worked up to a point where I need to ask a few questions about my nutritional needs. The following is a bit about myself (goals, current workout, nutrition, etc.) If there is any more information you need or help you can provide it would be very appreciated. Thanks.

Goals:

The main reason for all of these goals is to increase my competetive paintball abilities.

Cut fat to get to 8%-10% BF. (By august 1st would be ideal)

Build speed, endurance, agility and strength (essential for the sport).

Longterm is to increase general health through the avoidance of Diabetes, heart issues, high cholesterol and blood pressure along with any types of cancer preventatives (all various family ailments.

Stats:

Male
Age 23
6’0"
183lbs
BF = 13%-15% (Accumeasure single point test)

Workout:

Just finished a strength maintenence routine Mon/Thurs with HIIT Tues/Fri.

Starting 3 day full body workout MWF with HIIT Tues/Thurs and 45-60min steady state cardio Sat.

Workouts begin at 5am.

Current Nutrition

I can email you a copy of the excel document I was using for a template on this program but a summary is as such. Was on a VERY clean roughly 45%P 25%C 30%F program for 3 weeks and saw a decent amount of progress (1-1.5 lbs per week). The only issue is that I believe my taking in ~2300 calories per day was a little far under my caloretic needs.

Also, the 25%C did not allow enough fiber in my diet without cutting out too many starchy cabs and making me lethargic.

2

Hey, there, T2P!!! Long time, no speak. (grin)

I like your goals. You’re actually talking about fine-tuning things and taking it up a notch so that you improve your power to weight ratio … or speed to weight ratio, as the case may be.

Just so you have a frame of reference, 9 pounds of fat loss (not “weight” loss) will reduce your body fat percentage the 5% you’re wanting. So extreme measure aren’t really necessary.

Along with optimize PWO nutrition and making sure you have enough carbs to keep your energy up, I’d prefer to set a goal of a MAX of 1 pound of weight loss per week. And if measurements are going down in the areas you carry the majority of your fat, scale weight loss is irrelevant and not even necessary.

HIIT is going to be excellent for improving your competitive paintball playing ability!!! 2 times a week is perfect!

Reducing body fat by 5% and following the recommendations I tend to make on fat and eating fruit, beans and veggies will be highly supportive of your long-term goals. I’m really proud of you that you’re making that a priority and are looking that far ahead.

Eating 2300 calories at your body weight and losing 1 to 1.5 pounds a week was spot on. That’s a caloric intake of 12.5 times body weight.

Don’t worry too much how the macronutrient percentages work out. We’ll optimize things so that neither lethargy nor regularity are a problem.

I don’t mind your working out at 5:00 am, but it’s a red flag in my book. I don’t like people working out in a fasted state. It works against one of our two goals, which is to protect (if not add to LBM) so that FM is sacrificed.

What time are you up, and is it possible to set an alarm early to chug down a protein shake and go back to bed for a few more zzz’s before getting up at your normal time to hit the gym? If not, we’ll have to work around it a bit with supplementation (whey protein upon rising, BCAAs and Surge).

Let’s get started with the time of your meals. Using the thread I asked you to read, do you want to take a stab at the time and P+C/P+F structure of your meals?

3

Solid solid advice as usual just wanted to stop in and stress a few things. GO slow no need for you to hurry at your state and you mau even add muscle along the way which as well swings the BF% for the positive go by your clothes your performnce first and foremost your an athlete

#2 HIIT perfect for you and your sport. even more so in competition paintball the smaller speed ball type fields FAST short sprints followed by rest it fits the bill perfect for fatloss body comp and performance

Get something in you prior to that w/o like TT said even if its BCAA’s or getting simple carbs anmd protein just prior and even during

best of luck

Phill

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Hey, there, T2P!!! Long time, no speak. (grin)

I like your goals. You’re actually talking about fine-tuning things and taking it up a notch so that you improve your power to weight ratio … or speed to weight ratio, as the case may be.

Just so you have a frame of reference, 9 pounds of fat loss (not “weight” loss) will reduce your body fat percentage the 5% you’re wanting. So extreme measure aren’t really necessary.

Along with optimize PWO nutrition and making sure you have enough carbs to keep your energy up, I’d prefer to set a goal of a MAX of 1 pound of weight loss per week. And if measurements are going down in the areas you carry the majority of your fat, scale weight loss is irrelevant and not even necessary.

HIIT is going to be excellent for improving your competitive paintball playing ability!!! 2 times a week is perfect!

Reducing body fat by 5% and following the recommendations I tend to make on fat and eating fruit, beans and veggies will be highly supportive of your long-term goals. I’m really proud of you that you’re making that a priority and are looking that far ahead.

Eating 2300 calories at your body weight and losing 1 to 1.5 pounds a week was spot on. That’s a caloric intake of 12.5 times body weight.

Don’t worry too much how the macronutrient percentages work out. We’ll optimize things so that neither lethargy nor regularity are a problem.

I don’t mind your working out at 5:00 am, but it’s a red flag in my book. I don’t like people working out in a fasted state. It works against one of our two goals, which is to protect (if not add to LBM) so that FM is sacrificed.

What time are you up, and is it possible to set an alarm early to chug down a protein shake and go back to bed for a few more zzz’s before getting up at your normal time to hit the gym? If not, we’ll have to work around it a bit with supplementation (whey protein upon rising, BCAAs and Surge).

Let’s get started with the time of your meals. Using the thread I asked you to read, do you want to take a stab at the time and P+C/P+F structure of your meals?[/quote]

4

Terry - Thanks for the fast response. I actually went to sleep last night before getting a chance to read your post (hence the 20:30 bed). Now for your questions/comments.

First, a few things I left out of my original post.

Tools

  • Accumeasure Caliper
  • Body Weight Scale
  • Food Scale (accurate to 1g/.1oz)
  • Flexable seamstress’ measuring tape
  • Gym Membership

Suppliments Available:

  • ON 100% Whey Protein
  • NOW Dextrose
  • NOW Adam Multivitamin
  • Looking into Fish oils

As you can see by the time table set up below, I actually get up about 30 min prior to my workout at 05:00. The reason I do early morning workouts is that I experimented with no carb mornings and doing starches only PWO and was pretty much in a dazed state all day.

This really affected my ability to workout come 5pm so I ended up added a slight amount of carbs pre-WO but still could not handle the day itself. My work performance was suffering. I also love working out in the early morning because I can get in on anything (small gym) and am energized all day (plus I get starchy carbs right away)

On cardio days I usually have half of a homemade protein bar (oats, protein powder, and sugar/fat-free jello) right away when I wake up and then go at about 05:15. The macros for that are 15p/15c/2f.

On resistance days I still get up at the same time but have a protein/dex shake that is 66c/33p/1f. This shake is consumed, half on the way to the gym and half while working out. An identicle shake is consumed immediately after any workout (cardio or resistance).

Currently the days for cardio and resistance are the same excluding the shake. I know this needs to change because starches are not consumed PWO on cardio days. Usually I am taking in two starch meals (P+C) and then four fat meals (P+F) in addition to the morning shakes.

This is what my idea of your plan would somewhat look like (excluding beans and fats).

04:30 Pre-WO something (possibly during)
06:00 PWO shake (not sure on this)
07:00 PWO Meal P+C (Starch/Fruit)
09:30 P+C (Fruit)
12:00 P+C (Fruit)
14:30 P+F
17:00 P+F
19:30 P+F
20:30 Sleep

On a final note, do you think 2300 calories is too low? Using this calculator http://www.johnberardi.com/calc.htm the numbers I come up with are quite a bit higher even when cutting 700 for the deficit.

Phil:

Thank you very much for the good luck and encouragement. Also, I appreciate the reminder to take it slow and not overdo it. There is a fine line between overtraining and pushing yourself (learned that through a couple of injuries). Much obliged my good sir ;-).

[quote]Phill wrote:
Solid solid advice as usual just wanted to stop in and stress a few things. GO slow no need for you to hurry at your state and you mau even add muscle along the way which as well swings the BF% for the positive go by your clothes your performnce first and foremost your an athlete

#2 HIIT perfect for you and your sport. even more so in competition paintball the smaller speed ball type fields FAST short sprints followed by rest it fits the bill perfect for fatloss body comp and performance

Get something in you prior to that w/o like TT said even if its BCAA’s or getting simple carbs anmd protein just prior and even during

best of luck

Phill

Tampa-Terry wrote:
Hey, there, T2P!!! Long time, no speak. (grin)

I like your goals. You’re actually talking about fine-tuning things and taking it up a notch so that you improve your power to weight ratio … or speed to weight ratio, as the case may be.

Just so you have a frame of reference, 9 pounds of fat loss (not “weight” loss) will reduce your body fat percentage the 5% you’re wanting. So extreme measure aren’t really necessary.

Along with optimize PWO nutrition and making sure you have enough carbs to keep your energy up, I’d prefer to set a goal of a MAX of 1 pound of weight loss per week. And if measurements are going down in the areas you carry the majority of your fat, scale weight loss is irrelevant and not even necessary.

HIIT is going to be excellent for improving your competitive paintball playing ability!!! 2 times a week is perfect!

Reducing body fat by 5% and following the recommendations I tend to make on fat and eating fruit, beans and veggies will be highly supportive of your long-term goals. I’m really proud of you that you’re making that a priority and are looking that far ahead.

Eating 2300 calories at your body weight and losing 1 to 1.5 pounds a week was spot on. That’s a caloric intake of 12.5 times body weight.

Don’t worry too much how the macronutrient percentages work out. We’ll optimize things so that neither lethargy nor regularity are a problem.

I don’t mind your working out at 5:00 am, but it’s a red flag in my book. I don’t like people working out in a fasted state. It works against one of our two goals, which is to protect (if not add to LBM) so that FM is sacrificed.

What time are you up, and is it possible to set an alarm early to chug down a protein shake and go back to bed for a few more zzz’s before getting up at your normal time to hit the gym? If not, we’ll have to work around it a bit with supplementation (whey protein upon rising, BCAAs and Surge).

Let’s get started with the time of your meals. Using the thread I asked you to read, do you want to take a stab at the time and P+C/P+F structure of your meals?

[/quote]

5

Here is what i have for a more finished looking product.

4:30 ON protein powder (1 scoop)
5:00 ON protein powder/Dextrose 55c/22p
5:00-6:00 ON protein powder/Dextrose 55c/22p
6:00 ON protein powder/Dextrose 55c/22p
7:00 (P+C) 80-100cal Fruit/ 30p / 60c (startchy) / Green veg
9:30 (P+C) 80-100cal Fruit/ 30p / Green Veg
12:00 (P+C) 80-100cal Fruit/ 30p / Green Veg
2:30 (P+F) 30p / 19f from EVOO / Green Veg
5:00 (P+F) 30p / Rest of days sat fat / ?C beans / Brassica
7:30 (P+F) 30p / 19f from Flax Oil/ Green Veg ***

*** Is fish oil an ok sub for the flax? I heard that it is utilized by the body better. In addition to this, flax oil has been loosely tied to some prostate issues in males.

These numbers are all based on a ratio between my body weight and that of designinme on the thread you had directed me to. I am unsure whether your numbers are set (ie the amount of oils) or based on some sort of measurement (body weight or LMB). Please critique the structure and amounts included.

Thanks!

6

T2P, I just want to make sure of something before I get started with my recommendations. I’ve been reading what you’re doing currently. Is it giving you the results you want, or are you wanting me to help you take things up a notch?

Honestly, I don’t like some of the things I’m hearing … i.e., how your body responds to not getting enough carbs. Currently, if you don’t give the body its fix, it performs sub-optimally. That doesn’t mean that you should continue to keep your body dependent upon sugar for energy. It’s a cycle (dependence) I’d like to break.

Where you are currently a sugar burner (and carb dependent), I’d like to restructure things and teach your body to depend on stored body fat to meet caloric deficits. Breaking the addiction sometimes involves going through a spell of fogginess, lethargy, low energy, but it doesn’t last much more than a week to ten days at most. Once you’ve made the metabolic shift, the pay-off is no more energy spikes and dips. You’ll have more even, sustained energy levels, better mental clarity and you’ll have taught your body how to draw on stored body fat to meet caloric deficits.

Even though I might approach things differently, you’re free to put your own spin on things. There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat. (grin)

7

Terry,

As far as the carbs go I am not sure if I am dependant on them or not. The biggest I noticed was attempting to function with NO carbs prior to 5pm at all. This was an issue. As it stands now, I have two p/c meals in the morning but the rest of the day is carb free (other than veggies).

I am pretty much open for trying anything as long as it will get me to the highest level possible regarding my previously outlined goals. I am flexible and dedicated.

Just so you know, the 3 day a week program that I started yesterday is Chad Waterbury’s TBT.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
T2P, I just want to make sure of something before I get started with my recommendations. I’ve been reading what you’re doing currently. Is it giving you the results you want, or are you wanting me to help you take things up a notch?

Honestly, I don’t like some of the things I’m hearing … i.e., how your body responds to not getting enough carbs. Currently, if you don’t give the body its fix, it performs sub-optimally. That doesn’t mean that you should continue to keep your body dependent upon sugar for energy. It’s a cycle (dependence) I’d like to break.

Where you are currently a sugar burner (and carb dependent), I’d like to restructure things and teach your body to depend on stored body fat to meet caloric deficits. Breaking the addiction sometimes involves going through a spell of fogginess, lethargy, low energy, but it doesn’t last much more than a week to ten days at most. Once you’ve made the metabolic shift, the pay-off is no more energy spikes and dips. You’ll have more even, sustained energy levels, better mental clarity and you’ll have taught your body how to draw on stored body fat to meet caloric deficits.

Even though I might approach things differently, you’re free to put your own spin on things. There’s definitely more than one way to skin a cat. (grin)[/quote]

8

Just wanted to give everyone on update on a little development today. As I got in late last night and would have been exhausted working out this morning (have not gotten enough sleep this week) I decided to do so this afternoon (around 5pm). I figured that this would be the perfect opportunity to test whether or not my reaction to a low-carb morning changed.

What I did was take the two P+C meals (with fruit and no starches) and had those for my first two meals. The second two meals were P+F. The workout will come later along with the last P+C (starchy) and P+F meals.

The result was that I did not seem to crash nearly as hard today. Although this time I did have a bout of sleepiness about 45-60min after each meal, they were much shorter and went away on their own instead of requiring another meal to compensate. Again, I cannot determine for sure whether or not these bouts of tiredness were a result of the lack of sleep this week or the lack of morning carbs. Just a FYI to anyone who has comments. :slight_smile:

9

Sorry for the delay in replying, T2P. I’ve gotten a bit behind on my PMs and the threads I’m following.

What time do you workout, T2P, how long is your workout, and what program are you following?

You’re consuming way more dextrose than you need. Cut it from 55gC to 15gC for each of those 3 servings, and that assumes that you’re taking in the first serving when you walk in the door of the gym, the second serving during and the third serving upon completion of your workout.

The max amount of protein you should consume in the 4:30 to 6:00 time frame is 30g; you can divide it up equally. From there, your per-meal protein requirements for your 6 meals is 25g of protein.

Make sure your workout is NO LONGER THAN 1 hour. You need to be in and out in that time. From there, consume a whole-food P+C meal with starchy carbs one hour after you leave the gym. Since your per-meal protein requirements are 25g, you would consume 50g of starchy carbs in that whole food meal, not including the carbs you get from fruit.

I’d like to see you spread out your meals a little better so that you’re not fasting from 7:30 at night to 4:30 in the morning. What time do you go to bed? Try adding a half hour to each of your meals or as many as you are able to add a half hour to, so that they’re 3 hours apart.

For fat you need 74g per day. That’s your body weight time 0.4g of fat. Divide that number into thirds so that you’re getting 1/3 monos (olive oil), 1/3 saturated (from the lean cuts of meat, eggs and dairy you eat), and 1/3 polys (flaxseed and/or fish oil). For serving sizes, I’d recommend 1.5 tablespoons (21g of fat) for the olive oil and 1.5 tablespoons (21g of fat) of flaxseed oil and/or fish oil. That leaves 32g coming from the lean cuts of meat, eggs and dairy you eat.

You look like you’re pretty on top of your numbers and tracking, weighing, measuring your food, which is a real plus. Go ahead and give it a whirl and report in your results week by week, posting measurements and scale weight. I’ll help you tweak and adjust things along the way if need be.

Questions? (grin)

10

T2P, reducing the amount of dextrose you are consuming in the mornings and getting your carbs predominantly from low-glycemic index beans and fibrous green veggies will keep insulin from spiking and keep blood sugar levels more stable. The fruit, too, will help stabilize blood sugar levels because fruit is typically higher in fructose which is a type of sugar that is processed in the liver, not spiking insulin.

Additional benefits to getting small amounts of fructose from fruit is that it refills liver glycogen. The liver uses its glycogen stores to maintain stable blood sugar levels.

You’re tuning into (and listening to!) your body!!! Good for you!!! (grin)

11

Hey Terry. It is ok, all good things come to those who wait right :wink: ?

As for my workout schedule. I wake up at 4:30am every morning m-f (sat is usually a little later). My workout starts as close to 5am as possible. Currently I work out 6 days a week (M-Sat). Lifting days are M,W,F using Chad Waterbury’s Total-Body Training program, which usually lasts 45min. The 3rd day of that was today.

On Tues/Thurs I do a HIIT session lasting ~30 min. Saturday is ~45 min of a moderate paced cardio. I leave for work just after 7am and have a commute to get there at 8am. I work until 4pm and another commute to get home around 5pm. Bed is as close to 8:30pm as possible.

The following is the plan that I have come up based on your recommendations. What do you think?

04:30 7.5p from shake on waking
05:00 7.5p/15c Whey/Dex
05:00-06:00 7.5p/15c Whey/Dex during W/O
06:00 7.5p/15c Whey/Dex PWO shake
07:00 25p/50c (starch)/80-100cal fruit
10:00 25p/80-100cal fruit
1:00 25p/80-100cal fruit
3:30 25p/rest of day’s fat/beans
5:30 25p/21f (fish oil)
8:30 25p/21f (olive oil)/brassica

Also I do have a few questions:

  1. This is the one that I consider most important due to the health issues. The amount of fish oil/flax oil recommended here seems excessive based on the current research. The FDA recommends 3g of EPA/DHA Omega 3’s per day otherwise serious health problems can occur.

For 2 TBS of flax oil alone, that equates to 16.5g of total fat with 12.4g of Omega 3 (not sure the EPA/DHA)! Also, the possible link to prostate cancer in males decreases the amount of flax one may be comfortable with.

For fish oil it is possible to take about 4.5 tsp to get 21g of fat and 6.7g of EPA/DHA.

How, then, are the recommended quantities justified?

  1. With the fish oil, how does actual fish factor into that amount? If, for example, I have a salmon filet that has 8g of fat total and 2g are from saturated, do you assume the other 6g are poly and so I would only need 15g of fish oil supplement for the day? Same for mono sources (ie nuts, etc)

  2. If something has fats listed but the FDA only requires that saturated and trans fats are listed, how do you know what the remainder breaks down as?

  3. When calculating protein intake do you use the amount of protein from things like veggies, beans, and starchy carbs in the total (in this case 25g per meal)? Or is is just the protein source itself?

4)On HIIT/Moderate cardio days is the removal of starchy carbs from the PWO meal the only thing that changes? Are the shakes the same and such?

5)Are there any changes made for off days? Just remove the shakes and starchy carbs?

6)Finally, for weigh-ins and measurements what day would work best? Sunday (off day) or Sat (last workout before off day)?

Measurement locations?

  • Right Arm
  • Chest
  • Waist
  • Butt
  • Right Thigh
  • Right Calf

Thanks in advance!

12

Bump for anyone who can provide some insight. Thanks!

13

… all good things come to those who wait, right?

I might rephrase that to “Good things come to those who do the things they need to do to get what they want.” (grin)

… for weigh-ins and measurements what day would work best? Sunday (off day) or Sat (last workout before off day)

Since a part of the plan I help people put together is having a cheat/treat/free meal on Friday or Saturday or Sunday, I like for people to weigh in and measure on Friday morning, out of bed, just after hitting the restroom. That assumes you have a scale at home. If you don’t have a scale at home and can’t afford to get one at Wal-Mart (~$25), then you have to use whatever resources are available and try to be as consistent as possible. You’re not going to get accurate results if you weigh on different days or at different times or are wearing different clothes or ate a meal or drank water or had coffee. You get the idea.

Bottom line, pick a day, do it early and try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Are there any changes made for off days? Just remove the shakes and starchy carbs?

Exactly! The only difference between days you do resistance training and days you don’t is the peri-workout nutrition. You won’t get the dextrose or the starchy carbs. You’ll still get the fruit, beans, protein and fat.

On HIIT/Moderate cardio days is the removal of starchy carbs from the PWO meal the only thing that changes? Are the shakes the same and such?

On non-resistance training days, the only carbs you get will be from fibrous green veggies, fruit and beans. Protein intake and fat intake should be the same both days.

That’s the STARTING structure and numbers (approach) to your plan. And then based on your goals, we’ll make adjustments if need be. If you were to lose weight, but wanted to maintain weight, I would make sure you were eating all the fibrous green veggies you possibly could and hitting your P and F numbers and then I would start adding in small amounts of starchy carbs (not dextrose) to your meals earlier in the day.

Measurement locations? That’s up to you. Just make sure you measure in the same spot each time, as nearly as you can.

When calculating protein intake do you use the amount of protein from things like veggies, beans, and starchy carbs in the total (in this case 25g per meal)? Or is is just the protein source itself?

Good questions, T2P!!! (grin) The answer is no, I don’t. Count the protein you’re getting from the lean cuts of meat, eggs and dairy you eat, not spinach, oatmeal, broccoli, mushrooms, etc.

If something has fats listed but the FDA only requires that saturated and trans fats are listed, how do you know what the remainder breaks down as?

Could you give me an example?

With the fish oil, how does actual fish factor into that amount? If, for example, I have a salmon filet that has 8g of fat total and 2g are from saturated, do you assume the other 6g are poly and so I would only need 15g of fish oil supplement for the day? Same for mono sources (ie nuts, etc)

You don’t have to dig into things that deeply, T2P. The fact that you’re getting olive oil and flaxseed oil and fish oil at the numbers I recommended will ensure that you’re getting roughly equal amounts of monos, polys and saturated fat. If one is higher or lower by a bit, it doesn’t matter.

The FDA recommends 3g of EPA/DHA Omega 3’s per day otherwise serious health problems can occur.

In some cases I follow what traditionally trained dieticians and the FDA recommend, and sometimes I don’t. I don’t agree with the Food Pyramid, as one example. I tend to like optimal/ideal numbers on some blood tests, rather than what’s reported as being in a normal range. Recommendations for the general population aren’t always the same as those for athletes or people pursuing vibrant good health. We’re all biochemically unique. Some people might require x grams of EPA or DHA and others might show symptoms of an EPA or DHA deficiency at the same number of grams, due to defects in fatty acid metabolism.

I’m making the recommendations I’m making to help you improve body composition, but you’re free to change things to suit your purposes/preferences.

Give it a whirl and see how it goes, T2P.

Did I miss any of your questions?

14

Great advice as usual Terry. For the weighins/measurements I will definately be able to do that on Friday. I have to look into your cheat meals a little bit on your other threads and will ask questions if necessary but want to get this post out for some other questions.

After doing another couple hours of research on fats I have decided that I the breakdown for the 21g of fish/flax oil that I would like to acheive is 7g from flax (to get the benefits but limit the drawbacks) and 14g from fish.

My problem is, however, that I don’t know how to get 14g from fish oil if using a good product such as nordic naturals, Flameout, or carlson’s oil which have very high contents of EPA/DHA. I would like to stay at 6g of EPA/DHA or less from the fish oil. Any ideas?

An example of the fat breakdown that I had mentioned is for Prego Tradotopma; Italian Pasta Sauce (my roomates)

http://www.campbellsoup.com/prego.aspx

Thanks Terry!

15

After doing another couple hours of research on fats I have decided that I the breakdown for the 21g of fish/flax oil that I would like to acheive is 7g from flax (to get the benefits but limit the drawbacks) and 14g from fish.

Sounds good! I like what you finally decided on and the fact that you researched it.

My problem is, however, that I don’t know how to get 14g from fish oil if using a good product such as nordic naturals, Flameout, or carlson’s oil which have very high contents of EPA/DHA. I would like to stay at 6g of EPA/DHA or less from the fish oil. Any ideas?

With Flameout, 4 capsules are 5.6g of fat, with only 2.38g of that being EPA and DHA. That’s the way it works with other fish oils, too … i.e., the EPA and DHA are concentrated, but only a percentage of the total fat you’re taking in.

16

true2paintball wrote:
Hey Terry,

Just out of curiosity what fish/flax oils do you use? The fish oil information is pretty dense and I found a couple that I like but I am curious what you use. Also the reason I am curious on flax oil is that I found almost nothing on what to look for in flax oil.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Re fish oils, I use Flameout and a product I get from www.iherb.com. Here’s the link [/quote]

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=NTA-26137

[quote]It’s $14.97 for 16 fluid ounces. It’s orange flavored and tastes absolutely yummy added to tuna fish or salmon. Chef Lisa Marie uses it to make some delightful dishes. (grin) Just make sure you refrigerate with it and don’t cook with it. Add it to food after you’re done cooking. Same holds true for flaxseed oil.

The highest quality flaxseed oil you can get is from Flora. Udo Erasmus has Flora bottle his “Udo’s Choice.” It’s cold pressed, packaged into a GLASS bottle, not a plastic container. It’s date stamped. Air is removed from the bottle and replaced with an inert gas like Argon or Nitrogen. It’s absolutely, positively the highest-quality product out there.

T…[/quote]

17

Here are a few more questions that both I and those following along might appreciate:

1)Based on your response about protein, I assume the fats are only counted from lean protein, eggs, dairy and oils. Things like fruit, beans, veggies are not included?

2a) After looking into cheats you recommend them on Fri, Sat, or Sun and you can eat anything. By anything do you mean absolutely anything?

2b) Do the cheats have to fall into your daily requirements or can that day go over on protein, fat, or include starchy carbs (if an off day)?

  1. On Sunday is it ok to have five meals that follow the following format instead of 6? It would allow me to stay up later Sat but still get to sleep on time on Sun. Are the fats too heavy in the last two meals?

8:30 36p/80-100cal fruit
11:30 36p/80-100cal fruit
2:30 36p/80-100cal fruit
3:30 36p/21g fish/flax oils/ less than 16g saturated
8:30 36p/21g olive oil/ less than 16g saturated

Thanks again for the great help!

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Just for verification. Fats from Fruits are not included in the daily total either correct? Just those from Lean meat, dairy, and eggs?

Actually fat from ALL sources are counted, even fruit and veggies. If not, you could have large amounts of avocado (a fruit), and seriously go over the amount of fat I recommend.

On a positive note, for most fruits, the number of grams of fat should be pretty minimal. Good question, T2P. You’re really good at dialing in the little details. And the “little details” have a way of adding up and really working for you … or against you, as the case may be. (grin)

After looking into cheats you recommend them on Fri, Sat, or Sun and you can eat anything. By anything do you mean absolutely anything?

(grin)

Yup! You can go to a Chinese buffet. You can have pizza and beer. You can go out for a meal with your sweetie and have a glass of wine, an appetizer, the main entre and dessert. You can have Godiva chocolate.

Cheat/treat/free meals are a big deal when you’ve been eating with discipline and precision for a while and denying yourself. Having a cheat/treat/free meal improves compliance and helps you hold on until your designated day rolls around. It also allows you to achieve a nice balance between eating to improve your health and body composition and enjoying life and the people you care about. For some odd reason, part of getting together and celebrating usually involves food.

Do the cheats have to fall into your daily requirements or can that day go over on protein, fat, or include starchy carbs (if an off day)?

You don’t count ANYTHING at your cheat/treat/free meal. You can combine F+C. If your cheat/treat/free meal is earlier in the day, you can hold off on your next meal until you’re hungry again … which might mean that a good part of the day goes by before you eat another meal.

Sound good? Just be sure to let me know what you have at your next cheat/treat/free meal. (grin)

Your proposed Sunday schedule looks good!!! Good thinking on your part. Less meals just means that you have a higher amount of protein per meal. Your 2 fat meals are perfect. You also have 3 meals where you can include a serving of fruit.

It’s perfect. good job!

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Terry,

Everything you have provided is wonderful so far and I am actually noticing some results already, both positive and negative.

On the positive side, I am definitely less dependant on carbs already. Today I went with only fibreous carbs for the entire day and was not at all tired (this included cutting the dex around my running). Also, I do not get much, if any, crashing before or after meals. Chalk one up to goodness!

On the negative side (although it is certainly too early to tell) it appears as though the fibreous carbs may be adding some water weight. Some of the definition that I saw prior to starting has disappeared, especially around my midsection. What leads me to believe it might be water weight is that I tend to feel more bloated during the day. The reason I say it is too early to tell, however, is it has only been a short while and by starting this program I doubled my fiber intake (about 50g per day from 25g), which is sure to shock the system somewhat. We will see if it is all in my head when I weigh/measure tomorrow though.

I also apologize terry because information is a curse for me and the more I get the more I need. This causes me to love asking questions. So, yet again, another question.

With the P+C meals you are almost always going to have some fat from say a whole egg or turkey, so how much is acceptable? Also, if nuts were in your P+F meal, for example, you would end up with some carbs. What is an okay amount to include with these meals (either as a percent or number range preferably).

Thanks again and I promise not to post again until tomorrow ;). Oh yea and I know that my cheat meal is going to involve bachelor party BBQ on Sat and of course, a good beer (a guiness probably) :-P.

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I also apologize terry because information is a curse for me and the more I get the more I need. This causes me to love asking questions. So, yet again, another question.

(big grin) Don’t you worry about it T2P!!! I’m an information and understand-my-body junkie myself!

Besides, you ask good questions. You’re logical and analytical and ou’re not afraid to research things.

Subcutaneous water usually isn’t a result of increasing fiber intake. It could be changes in the amount of sodium you consume. It could even be your protein choices. Could you give me a list of the proteins you’re eating?

I’d even be more inclined to blame it on the dextrose you’re consuming than on the fiber.

With the P+C meals you are almost always going to have some fat from say a whole egg or turkey, so how much is acceptable? Also, if nuts were in your P+F meal, for example, you would end up with some carbs. What is an okay amount to include with these meals (either as a percent or number range preferably).

I follow Berardi’s recommendations on this one.

At P+F meals, try to keep carbs to less than 10g
At P+C meals, try to keep fat to less than 5g.

Oh yea and I know that my cheat meal is going to involve bachelor party BBQ on Sat and of course, a good beer (a guiness probably) :-P.

Oh, boy, talk about timing!!! (grin) I’m really glad we had this discussion. That’s why the cheat/treat/free meal is on Friday OR Saturday OR Sunday. Most of the good stuff (with food involved) happens on the weekend. You have a good time!!!

Thanks again and I promise not to post again until tomorrow :wink:

No need to cut your questions short if you still have any. I promise that if you keep asking, I’ll keep answering. (grin)