New NBA Ball

Off Topic
21

You guys clearly have not watched Lebron James play much. He is one of the most unselfish players in the league, and analysts like Walton, Barkeley, and others compare him to a cross between Jordan and Magic Johnson and he’s only 21. This guy will average a triple double in a season before he’s done.

About Shaq being the only Star in the league this is absurd. What about Kobe, Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan, Yao, Amare and others. These players are much better than the players in the past. They are more athletic and there are more international players in the league. The problem is the rules and court size have been the same since the NBA started. The court needs to be made larger to accomadate bigger and faster athletes.

22

[quote]dom815 wrote:
You guys clearly have not watched Lebron James play much. He is one of the most unselfish players in the league, and analysts like Walton, Barkeley, and others compare him to a cross between Jordan and Magic Johnson and he’s only 21. This guy will average a triple double in a season before he’s done.

About Shaq being the only Star in the league this is absurd. What about Kobe, Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan, Yao, Amare and others. These players are much better than the players in the past. They are more athletic and there are more international players in the league. The problem is the rules and court size have been the same since the NBA started. The court needs to be made larger to accomadate bigger and faster athletes.[/quote]

Please…

Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareme, Larry Byrd, Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Carl Malone, Clyde Drexler, Partick Ewing, David Robinson…

or

LeBron James, Kobe, Allen “I beat up my own coach and I have to wear this stocking on my arm to cover my gang tattoos” Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan…

The first group are names EVERYONE knows…EVERYONE. They are STILL more recognizable than the new guys. We know ther name, their team, their number. They were/are household names.

The second group are famous only to avid basketball fans or achieved notoriety through scandal. Yao is the exception in the list you provided, but he’s not an MJ or Byrd.

The new guys might, I say might, be better athletes, but they definately aren’t better basketball players. Freakin teenagers right out of high school are starting in the NBA.

23

[quote]PGJ wrote:
dom815 wrote:
You guys clearly have not watched Lebron James play much. He is one of the most unselfish players in the league, and analysts like Walton, Barkeley, and others compare him to a cross between Jordan and Magic Johnson and he’s only 21. This guy will average a triple double in a season before he’s done.

About Shaq being the only Star in the league this is absurd. What about Kobe, Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan, Yao, Amare and others. These players are much better than the players in the past. They are more athletic and there are more international players in the league. The problem is the rules and court size have been the same since the NBA started. The court needs to be made larger to accomadate bigger and faster athletes.

Please…

Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareme, Larry Byrd, Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Carl Malone, Clyde Drexler, Partick Ewing, David Robinson…

or

LeBron James, Kobe, Allen “I beat up my own coach and I have to wear this stocking on my arm to cover my gang tattoos” Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan…

The first group are names EVERYONE knows…EVERYONE. They are STILL more recognizable than the new guys. We know ther name, their team, their number. They were/are household names.

The second group are famous only to avid basketball fans or achieved notoriety through scandal. Yao is the exception in the list you provided, but he’s not an MJ or Byrd.

The new guys might, I say might, be better athletes, but they definately aren’t better basketball players. Freakin teenagers right out of high school are starting in the NBA. [/quote]

Moses Malone, who was a contemporary of your 80s heros (and a much better player than many on your list) came straight out of high school and excelled in pro ball. Kobe and Garnett came straight out of high school at the tail end of the Jordan era and have excelled at pro ball. Just because Lebron has done the same thing today, it does not indict the quality of talent in the current NBA. Special talents over the years have done exactly what Lebron is doing today

And again, the NBA does not allow players to go straight from high school into the league. Of course, your 80s frame of reference probably has no idea of that.

As for Lebron v. Shaq, I guarantee Lebron has a higher q rating in the NBA’s prime demographic. Just because your stuck in the past ass doesn’t see him in the same light as Shaq, doesn’t mean the rest of the world agrees with you.

24

[quote]TJN713 wrote:
PGJ wrote:
dom815 wrote:
You guys clearly have not watched Lebron James play much. He is one of the most unselfish players in the league, and analysts like Walton, Barkeley, and others compare him to a cross between Jordan and Magic Johnson and he’s only 21. This guy will average a triple double in a season before he’s done.

About Shaq being the only Star in the league this is absurd. What about Kobe, Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan, Yao, Amare and others. These players are much better than the players in the past. They are more athletic and there are more international players in the league. The problem is the rules and court size have been the same since the NBA started. The court needs to be made larger to accomadate bigger and faster athletes.

Please…

Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareme, Larry Byrd, Charles Barkley, Dominique Wilkins, Carl Malone, Clyde Drexler, Partick Ewing, David Robinson…

or

LeBron James, Kobe, Allen “I beat up my own coach and I have to wear this stocking on my arm to cover my gang tattoos” Iverson, Nash, McGrady, DWade, Garnett, Tim Duncan…

The first group are names EVERYONE knows…EVERYONE. They are STILL more recognizable than the new guys. We know ther name, their team, their number. They were/are household names.

The second group are famous only to avid basketball fans or achieved notoriety through scandal. Yao is the exception in the list you provided, but he’s not an MJ or Byrd.

The new guys might, I say might, be better athletes, but they definately aren’t better basketball players. Freakin teenagers right out of high school are starting in the NBA.

Moses Malone, who was a contemporary of your 80s heros (and a much better player than many on your list) came straight out of high school and excelled in pro ball. Kobe and Garnett came straight out of high school at the tail end of the Jordan era and have excelled at pro ball. Just because Lebron has done the same thing today, it does not indict the quality of talent in the current NBA. Special talents over the years have done exactly what Lebron is doing today

And again, the NBA does not allow players to go straight from high school into the league. Of course, your 80s frame of reference probably has no idea of that.

As for Lebron v. Shaq, I guarantee Lebron has a higher q rating in the NBA’s prime demographic. Just because your stuck in the past ass doesn’t see him in the same light as Shaq, doesn’t mean the rest of the world agrees with you. [/quote]

I’m not stuck in the 80’s , but the NBA is past it’s prime. The 80’s and 90’s were it’s golden years. Today’s top-level pro’s can’t even beat Eastern European teams. Our college guys used to compete with those guys and win, now our pros are getting spanked. Oh, yes, talent in the NBA is falling. Perhaps athletic ability is getting better, but skillz are decreasing.

Besides dedicated fans, do you honestly think anyone knows who Nash, Wade, and McGrady are? I don’t. The game is going down the toilet quickly, so they came up with this “new ball” to generate some interest. Shaq is all that’s left. When he goes, the league will suffer greatly.

25

PGJ, you don’t seem to have any concept of what you’re talking about.

  1. Allen Iverson never beat up his coach (You’re probably thinking of Latrell Sprewell, which is easy to mix up because their names are so similiar)

  2. There IS a salary cap for rookies

  3. Shaq’s name might be the most recognizable simply because he’s been around the longest, but not even he is in the same level of stardom of Jordan, Magic, or Bird (spelled with an I, not a Y and not everyone knows he plays for Miami much less what college he played for)

  4. You can’t go straight from high school to the NBA.

  5. The best starting 5 in the league didn’t even play in the world championship

  6. You’re comparing people who were around for 20 years to people who have been around less than 10. OF COURSE they’ll be more recognizable. Everyone’s heard of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath to, so I guess that means they’re better football players than Tom Brady and Peyton Manning whose names aren’t as recognizable to non-football fans?

Seriously, do you even watch basketball?

26

[quote]PGJ wrote:

I’m not stuck in the 80’s , but the NBA is past it’s prime. The 80’s and 90’s were it’s golden years. Today’s top-level pro’s can’t even beat Eastern European teams. Our college guys used to compete with those guys and win, now our pros are getting spanked. Oh, yes, talent in the NBA is falling. Perhaps athletic ability is getting better, but skillz are decreasing.

Besides dedicated fans, do you honestly think anyone knows who Nash, Wade, and McGrady are? I don’t. The game is going down the toilet quickly, so they came up with this “new ball” to generate some interest. Shaq is all that’s left. When he goes, the league will suffer greatly.

[/quote]

What you are describing really isn’t because players play poorly related to years past. It is because there is no shock and awe anymore. Micheal Jordan was a household name. No one had to even watch basketball to know who he was. When the skills of most players become similar, and there are fewer truly standout players, all of that falls to the wayside. Shaq has been in several kids’ movies, released several music CD’s, and Blue Chips was probably watched by every high school kid when it came out. He cornered the pop market. Lebron James has BubbleYum. That is about as good as it gets aside from shoe endorsements and the odd clothing line. The guys today aren’t “superheroes”. Why? because we’ve seen it before. Unless someone comes out who can literally leap the entire backetball court in a single bound, it may just stay that way.

Sports enthusiests will know every name…but Grandma Jenkins who never watches ESPN won’t know them and we won’t be seeing them in too many movies.

Kobe fucked up his ‘innocence’, if there ever was any, with his extramarital fuck up. My guess is, he won’t be in too many Looney Tunes movies any time soon until people forget it.

That’s pop culture for you…and it is the same reason sports in general will fall off if they continue this anabolics witch hunt.

If you take away the superheroes, you take away the magic. Once that’s gone…well shit.

27

[quote]JonP wrote:
PGJ, you don’t seem to have any concept of what you’re talking about.

  1. Allen Iverson never beat up his coach (You’re probably thinking of Latrell Sprewell, which is easy to mix up because their names are so similiar)

  2. There IS a salary cap for rookies

  3. Shaq’s name might be the most recognizable simply because he’s been around the longest, but not even he is in the same level of stardom of Jordan, Magic, or Bird (spelled with an I, not a Y and not everyone knows he plays for Miami much less what college he played for)

  4. You can’t go straight from high school to the NBA.

  5. The best starting 5 in the league didn’t even play in the world championship

  6. You’re comparing people who were around for 20 years to people who have been around less than 10. OF COURSE they’ll be more recognizable. Everyone’s heard of Johnny Unitas and Joe Namath to, so I guess that means they’re better football players than Tom Brady and Peyton Manning whose names aren’t as recognizable to non-football fans?

Seriously, do you even watch basketball?[/quote]

Yes,I was thinking of Latrell. Sorry. I don’t care who played in the world championship, they were pros and we lost at our own game. Until the league made new rules, guys WERE going from high school into the NBA and doing well. If not for the rule, HS kids would be doing it all the time. With the names I’m talking aobut recognition while they were playing. Today’s best players aren’t household names like in the 80’s and 90’s. And NO, I don’t watch anymore. Like I’ve said a few times here, it’s a boring game now. Do you think basketball is as popular now as it used to be?

28

[quote]Professor X wrote:
PGJ wrote:

I’m not stuck in the 80’s , but the NBA is past it’s prime. The 80’s and 90’s were it’s golden years. Today’s top-level pro’s can’t even beat Eastern European teams. Our college guys used to compete with those guys and win, now our pros are getting spanked. Oh, yes, talent in the NBA is falling. Perhaps athletic ability is getting better, but skillz are decreasing.

Besides dedicated fans, do you honestly think anyone knows who Nash, Wade, and McGrady are? I don’t. The game is going down the toilet quickly, so they came up with this “new ball” to generate some interest. Shaq is all that’s left. When he goes, the league will suffer greatly.

What you are describing really isn’t because players play poorly related to years past. It is because there is no shock and awe anymore. Micheal Jordan was a household name. No one had to even watch basketball to know who he was. When the skills of most players become similar, and there are fewer truly standout players, all of that falls to the wayside. Shaq has been in several kids’ movies, released several music CD’s, and Blue Chips was probably watched by every high school kid when it came out. He cornered the pop market. Lebron James has BubbleYum. That is about as good as it gets aside from shoe endorsements and the odd clothing line. The guys today aren’t “superheroes”. Why? because we’ve seen it before. Unless someone comes out who can literally leap the entire backetball court in a single bound, it may just stay that way.

Sports enthusiests will know every name…but Grandma Jenkins who never watches ESPN won’t know them and we won’t be seeing them in too many movies.

Kobe fucked up his ‘innocence’, if there ever was any, with his extramarital fuck up. My guess is, he won’t be in too many Looney Tunes movies any time soon until people forget it.

That’s pop culture for you…and it is the same reason sports in general will fall off if they continue this anabolics witch hunt.

If you take away the superheroes, you take away the magic. Once that’s gone…well shit.[/quote]

Good points, but the league is still in an identity crisis. If we took a pole, I bet more people could name 10 players from the 80’s than from the 2000’s. The game has simply lost it’s luster. Before Michael Jordan it was in a bit of a slump as well. You just don’t hear people talking about it like they used to. You are right about the superhero thing. There isn’t one right now. But back in the 80’s and 90’s didn’t it seem like every team had a premier player?

29

Sorry. I don’t care who played in the world championship, they were pros and we lost at our own game.

The World Basketball Championship and Olympics now do not compare to those in the 80’s and 90’s. First off half of the foreign teams are made up of NBA players such as Dirk, Ginobli, Tony Parker, Nocioni, Carlos Arroyo. These guys start on their NBA teams and clearly the international game has improved. Another thing is that these countries having been playing together for 5-10 years, while the American teams only months. Plus most of the best US players do not want to play because they are not paid to play in the Olympics, and why would they sacrifice getting hurt and ruining their NBA career? So the fact that we lost at the WBC proves nothing.

30

Lebron, Wade and Melo have been in the league for 3 years so obviously their names won’t be as big as jordon etc. But they have another 15 years ahead of them and I think when all is said and done these will be household names.

31

Lebron is the ONLY one out of the current crop who has the ability to become a SUPER DOOPER star. Melo has no personality. wade is too shy and reserved. Kobe is a dick and will NEVER be accepted. Shaq is on the way out. He may have 3 more years but then he’s gone. Dirk isnt marketable.

BTW…Lebron knows team ball very well.

What MJ was able to do popularity wise is once in a lifetime and you cant compare any NBA player to him, ever. The only other athletes to reach that level were Muhammed Ali, Babe Ruth and Tiger Woods. Its not likely any NBA star will come close to what MJ was in terms of popularity and acceptance and they shouldnt be compared to him in that respect. The NBA isnt as popular as it once was also.

32

I kinda have a problem with some of the stereotyping of people like Allen Iverson, every sport has players who act in a certain manner. I think the thing to keep in mind even though its no excuse is that most of these guys were raised by single mothers or grandmothers. The father figure in their lives were absent on top of coming from nothing. I may not agree with what a Allen Iverson, or a T.O in football does, but when they are on the field nobody gives more than those two guys, Iverson plays at 120%

It’s also hard for me to say what my metality would be having to deal with those conditions growing up. I do feel the NBA is on an upswing, Kobe is rebuilding his rep, D-wade, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Lebron, Tim Duncan, Carmelo, Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady, Paul Pierce, Dirk, Jermain O’neal, Vince Carter, the list goes on, there is no lack of talent in the NBA, and David Stern is one of th e most powerful men in sports.

 Finally the reason we struggle overseas is simple those other teams have been together for years. We are in the right direction with who we are selecting now though. Back when the Dream Team was running through people basketball wasnt as popular in those countries, they were getting autographs after the games, that team inspired other nations to be like them. They put down the soccer ball or baseball and played basketball.
33

[quote]dom815 wrote:
Sorry. I don’t care who played in the world championship, they were pros and we lost at our own game.[/quote]

See, this is B/S. The players on the other teams these days are all professionals too - and top level professionals in the NBA for that matter too. Nowitski, Ginobli, Parker to name but three…

One thing the NBA has achieved is the international popularisation of basketball and concomitant with that a universal raising of the international standard: so it’s a bit rich to complain about losing at your own game…or would you prefer it if the World Champs was like Baseball’s ‘world series?’ (lower case intentional)

The other thing with international ball is that the [a]rules are slightly different and [b]the international teams play those rules in their hoem comps so they’re sued to playing them in a team situation…

Who plays defense in the NBA?

  • San Antonio
  • Utah (Jerry Sloan routinely bawls out players that don’t play defense)
  • Detroit

You [generally] tend to find that the teams that have crap defense have one dominant scorer: Philadelphia, LA Lakers (although the return of Phil is ameliorating that somewhat), Golden State…

34

Is the ball even leather? I hate the “synthetic leather” bull shit they make a lot of balls with.

35

They changed the ball because the sweat would make the ball slippery towards the ends of games.

Yeah the NBA is a lot worse than it was during the Jordan Era, but all the arguments that are going against the NBA on this thread are terrible. Maybe if you knew something about bball you could muster up a logical argument. Also, the dunk contest is only boring because even an average viewer of the NBA feels like they have seen every possible dunk (and the NBA is dumb and only allows players to participate in their first 3 years in the league. This means Lebron can never be in the dunk contest now). Someone that likes basketball or maybe can dunk a basketball would understand that the dunk contest is not unimpressive at all. James White, a rookie in the NBA, can do a between the legs dunk from the free throw line, much more exciting and difficult than any dunk Jordan ever did. And PGJ said maybe athleticism was increasing but all other skills were decreasing, and that nobody plays defense. I’m not one to questions Larry Bird’s greatness, but seeing as though I am only 16, I can’t recall defenders from the past that were better than Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, that Bird was being matched up against. Scottie Pippen is the only one that comes to mind.

Commenting that they don’t play defense anymore is just ignorant, I’ve read articles from ESPN that talk specifically about how teams never played defense until the Pistons did in the late 80’s. more defense is played so scoring went down, but there has been a recent rise in scoring because players are realizing that knowing how to shoot a jumper is actually important. To me it seems that offensive players are touigher to defend mor enow than ever, and that more defense is being played than ever.

High School players can’t play at the pro level right away and so they are watering down the league. Well I’m confident that Lebron has some of the most impressive rookie numbers of all time.

Maybe you could have said that players don’t create a fan base that they used to get while competing in college and being seen in March Madness, so thats why there isn’t as many superstars now. Thats how Jordan got his name out there, and now they miss that opportunity. But you didn’t say that, instead you made up some bullshit that was completely false.

The reason the U.S. might lose in international basketball is that the rest of the world has been learning from American coaches that have gone overseas and started academies and such, not because of a decreasing NBA level of talent.

If anyone is to blame for the sudden lack of skills you claim, it would be the players you say played during the golden era, this is who current NBA players grew up idolizing. This is dumb. I have homework. I hate school. Everything I say is nullified due to me being a minor. Fuck this

36

[quote]Boles wrote:
They changed the ball because the sweat would make the ball slippery towards the ends of games.

Yeah the NBA is a lot worse than it was during the Jordan Era, but all the arguments that are going against the NBA on this thread are terrible. Maybe if you knew something about bball you could muster up a logical argument. Also, the dunk contest is only boring because even an average viewer of the NBA feels like they have seen every possible dunk (and the NBA is dumb and only allows players to participate in their first 3 years in the league. This means Lebron can never be in the dunk contest now). Someone that likes basketball or maybe can dunk a basketball would understand that the dunk contest is not unimpressive at all. James White, a rookie in the NBA, can do a between the legs dunk from the free throw line, much more exciting and difficult than any dunk Jordan ever did. And PGJ said maybe athleticism was increasing but all other skills were decreasing, and that nobody plays defense. I’m not one to questions Larry Bird’s greatness, but seeing as though I am only 16, I can’t recall defenders from the past that were better than Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, that Bird was being matched up against. Scottie Pippen is the only one that comes to mind.

Commenting that they don’t play defense anymore is just ignorant, I’ve read articles from ESPN that talk specifically about how teams never played defense until the Pistons did in the late 80’s. more defense is played so scoring went down, but there has been a recent rise in scoring because players are realizing that knowing how to shoot a jumper is actually important. To me it seems that offensive players are touigher to defend mor enow than ever, and that more defense is being played than ever.

High School players can’t play at the pro level right away and so they are watering down the league. Well I’m confident that Lebron has some of the most impressive rookie numbers of all time.

Maybe you could have said that players don’t create a fan base that they used to get while competing in college and being seen in March Madness, so thats why there isn’t as many superstars now. Thats how Jordan got his name out there, and now they miss that opportunity. But you didn’t say that, instead you made up some bullshit that was completely false.

The reason the U.S. might lose in international basketball is that the rest of the world has been learning from American coaches that have gone overseas and started academies and such, not because of a decreasing NBA level of talent.

If anyone is to blame for the sudden lack of skills you claim, it would be the players you say played during the golden era, this is who current NBA players grew up idolizing. This is dumb. I have homework. I hate school. Everything I say is nullified due to me being a minor. Fuck this

[/quote]

Good post, buddy. You know what you are talking about. The OP has admitted he doesn’t even watch the current NBA, so he has invalidated his own arguments.

37

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Drew0786 wrote:
I think they need to go back to the Red, White, and Blue ball from the ABA.

I think the reason basketball is less popular today than in the past is the frequent player movement. When I was a kid teams had players that were identified with the team. Magic- Lakers, Bird- Celtics, Hakeem- Rockets, I. Thomas- Pistons, etc. etc. These type players tended to spend their entire career with one team.
Now players move from team to team almost yearly. I do think players should have the right to maximize their earnings but in someways it hurts the league.

Salary caps for rookies. THat would save teams lots of money wasted on expensive top picks. This should apply for all pro sports. Make the top salary for ANY rookie like $1 million. Heisman, All-American, whatever…no rookie will make over $1 million. Then he can renegotiate after that first season based on how he did. Pay for performance. What a concept.
[/quote]

Actually, the NBA is set up like that. Yao, Lebron, kwame brown all had the same contracts when they came into the nba. BUt they still get all this money from endorsements and whatnot.

38

The ball is fine, who gives a shit. It’s suppose to keep the ball drier from that players sweat. It’s a better material or some crap like that.

Shaq is a overweight & overrated. Yes, down low he’s the shit, no question about it.

Lebron is an amazing team player, ALOT of fun to watch too! AND, with only a few commercials under his belt, he a way better actor than Shaq. I don’t remember Shaq having his own bubblegum.

The NBA is not boring IMO, it’s loaded with many star players.

Hmmmm. what else. Many of you here have no idea what your talking about, that’s for sure.

My bball IQ is off the charts btw. :slight_smile:

39

[quote]BRUCELEEWANNABE wrote:
The ball is fine, who gives a shit. It’s suppose to keep the ball drier from that players sweat. It’s a better material or some crap like that.[/quote]

They players NEVER complained about the old ball. The players DIDNT seem have input in the change. The PLAYERS want the old ball instead.

The NBA are a bunch of douches for doing that. The ball was absolutely perfect. Its like changing the NFL football. These guys have been playing with the same ball for years and years. Its a completely different feeling ball. Thats major when a game has a ton reliance on touching…gasp…the ball.

40

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
BRUCELEEWANNABE wrote:
The ball is fine, who gives a shit. It’s suppose to keep the ball drier from that players sweat. It’s a better material or some crap like that.

They players NEVER complained about the old ball. The players DIDNT seem have input in the change. The PLAYERS want the old ball instead.

The NBA are a bunch of douches for doing that. The ball was absolutely perfect. Its like changing the NFL football. These guys have been playing with the same ball for years and years. Its a completely different feeling ball. Thats major when a game has a ton reliance on touching…gasp…the ball.[/quote]

But what I wonder is whether most of the reaction is just because it’s different or is it because there is a true performance let down. I mean, if the thing is supposed to stay drier than the leather ball, I’m wondering why everyone is complaining that it will be slipping out of people’s hands.

I was reading the article on the ball on ESPN.com and I thought this quote sort of sums up what I think will happen:

“I don’t like it, because it’s different,” Heat backup center Michael Doleac said. “You get used to something, you don’t want to change it. … But in three years, we’ll probably all look back and not be able to imagine playing with anything else.”