New Here and on TRT

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

Hey guys

I am very new here and was looking for a chance to pick the minds of some of you.

Quick run done 18 months ago I was 5’10 and 420 pounds, ran in to many issues with my health and finally my GP sent me to a specialist. That being said we found a number of issues that are being sorted out, also it was deemed to suffer from Low T. Not sure if the measurements are the same between Canada and the USA however my specialist has tested both Free and Bio available testosterone and has said my levels being a 35 year old male would be between 300-1000 ng/dl however my levels where at 210…

Over the course of a year we started with Androgel and increased the doses every 12 weeks to a point the specialist suggested it was not absorbing so he moved me to a Oral medication a 40MG tablet which seemed to cause other issues between my diet and other issues ( Liver, kidney ) I was pulled off the orals and put onto IM Injections… Started at 100mg/ml per month called Delatestryl we did this for 3 months did blood work and my levels where up to 225 which he increased me 100mg every two weeks and after 3 months we had no change so he moved me to 100mg a week… levels increased slightly to 235… He said my goal would be around 500-600… doing so it would reduce the issues I am having due to the Low T mostly Depression, anxious and mood swings… Finally after a year on injections they have moved me to 200mg a week… my last blood work was 280mg/ml…

Now over the course of 18 months before my last blood work last month, I have dropped down to 290 pounds, become much more active, at the gym 3-4 times a week mostly doing cardio, doing some weights just trying to shed pounds… being told the more I lose the better everything will get… After my last appointment last month the Doc pretty much told me that I was at more than enough of a dose, and that I am on track losing weight and staying on 200mg a week we should see great improvements on my next follow up which is now scheduled for 6 months… I don’t feel great improvement everything i read and have been told its still a mickey mouse dose and don’t understand why they wont increase it…

Now to my questions here now that there is some history… anything else you need to know please ask!

now when I got my new dose from the pharmacy 4 months ago, they imputted my dose wrong as i was previouly on a substatute that was 100mg/ml dose so they where doing 2ml per shot, then they got in my regular stuff which is 200mg/ml and they left it at 2ml per shot but was only taking the 1 as i know i should be taking the 200mg a week not 400mg… did not say anything at first as i figured i would be incased sooner or later and might need it whatever… so i have a few extra veils of test and two weeks ago out of frustration i took a 2ml shot and three days later my wife made a comment that I seemed more energetic and calm… did not think anything of it 6 days in i felt a bit of a decline… took the 400mg shot again and again three days in felt pretty good… So clearly the increased dose is helping…

My question is,. Would i be best to stagger and do the 200ml shot every say 4 days to keep it at a higher dose but more stable across my week? are the ups and downs something that will go better as it builds up in my system?

I did noticed this week at the gym, i felt stronger… now im not on a big dose but i guess even if its bringing me back up to a some what normal range i would feel some difference, not huge difference but i seem able to do the extra set of reps, i did add some weight on my bench press, this week added 10 more pounds and still pushed the full 3 sets of 20 i was doing last week not sure if 10 pounds something to get excited about or not.

But with summer coming, when im going to be most active… i get out and Mountain bike i don’t want to waste the next 6 months fighting a dose that may not be enough and want to take advantage of what I have while i can…

Regards,
Mike.

2

200Mg a week should put your total t way above 280. you are injecting testosterone right?

Edit: you did mean 280ng/dl, correct?

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Yes, currently i am on a prescribed dose 200MG of Delatestryl ( Testosterone Enanthate ) IM into the glutes. I have been on the 200mg weekly injected by the doctor now for 16 weeks, and my last blood work was taken last month and my test levels where 280 ng/dl and the doc said he wants to see me up around 500ng/dl.

He has said that it a “Absorption issue” being obese, having diabetes and on a number of medications for issues like hyper tension, depression, cholesterol, diabetes and gout have all effected how my body is working and such so he says… the last blood work also showed my thyroids high, and sorry don’t know the terms but he said the part of my brain that tells my testies to produce testosterone is very low… Which i assume considering i have had low T way before going on to TRT that would have been low to start with?

We basicly left that appointment with me having more questions than answers, Being told we will follow up in 6 months, to keep on the current dose, to keep working hard like i am to lose more weight that as i lose more my levels will raise on the dose im on. No answers to why its happening or what else can be done.

Which is why i took upon myself to take the extra dose, which i feel made a difference as i did and do feel different, just feel a bit of a roller coaster.

All i want to do is get better, I have friends who seem to be in the know, who all suggest to use up my left offer test ( Patches, Gels, Pills and extra veils ) to bring the levels up beyond what my prescription will do as it will help me feel all around better, will aid in the weight loss will aid in some possible muscle gains which in turn the more muscle mass gives more ability to help burn the calories and burn the fat.

Was just looking for a 3rd thought on it, someone like you guys.

4

You will get better responses in the trt section. Good advice over there. Post up all your lab results with ranges and any questions you have.

5

What does it say on your vial? 200mg/ml? Where on your body and how are you injecting? What size length needle are you using? Example: 1ml insulin Syringe U-100 25g x 5/8.

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The Vial says 200mg/ml. Inject 1ml IM weekly… I go to the clinic and they inject into my glut upper outside edge, i can post a pick of where the band aid is after if needed lol but i know they are hitting the muscle as this weeks shot was sore for 2-3 days like a small Charlie horse in my backside, They rotate weekly from left to right side. . Using a 23G 1.5 inch syringe.

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Hey Mike, there is a wealth of great information in “stickies” on the front page of the T Replacement forum. 200mg/week is near the absolute ceiling of TRT dosages. Most of us are somewhere closer to 100mg/week. You need to be aware of elevated E2 (Estradiol) as no matter how much exogenous testosterone you inject it will be cancelled out by elevated E2. Read the following article as it explains T to E conversion is a very easy to read format. Most of us take an Aromatase Inhibitor to control our E2 levels. Aromatase is the enzyme that binds to Testosterone and converts it to Estradiol (E2).

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Thanks Hook,

I really don’t know enough about it all and honesty i am really digging deep to learn now as im afraid that maybe i need a new specialist, i dont have blood results, i will have to ask for a copy next time im in to see them… i was just told my levels where 280 and the normal range is 300-1000 and he wants to see me around 500.

Now as fo rthe Elevated E2, nothing from the doctors side is being done, however a couple of fellow body building friends who are pretty much retired now from the local shows i guess they are called are helping out with diet, work outs and stuff… and they have suggested that due to the larger amounts of test im injecting for TRT and the lack of incrase in levels that more needs to be looked at and im just trying to find the best way to go about it and honesty put it plain and simple to my doc, hard to walk into his office and say dude im taking twice the perscribed dose and nothing is happening…

A couple of weeks ago my breast where sore, i mentioned it to one of my friends and they gave me something to try called “Tamox” ( Tamoxifen Citrate) they suggested i take 1 20mg tablet a day for 3-5 days till the soreness went away… i trust them with my life have for years… and did so 4 days later my breast where no longer sore and felt less firm… they said it was a side effect of the testosterone and told me to tell my doctor that they where sore… which i did when the doc asked if they where still sore i said not as bad and he said we would do blood work in a couple of weeks when im in to see him again…

So my questions is, is the Tamox one of the medications that prevent the E2? was it the E2 causing the sore breast?

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Here are a couple of images, the first is when i was 420lbs two years ago which really opened my eyes :frowning:

Second is a before and after from 420 to 350 pounds

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You’re better off on anastrozole than tamoxifen. Tamoxifen is an estrogen antagonist (blocker) in certain tissues (the focus being on breast tissue in breast cancer patients). It does nothing to stop the creation of more estrogen but simple stops it from binding to receptors in breast tissue. At 200mg and that much extra weight, you’re bound to be converting a large portion to E2 and that needs to be controlled with the aromatase inhibitor.

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What is the length of time past from when you get your injection to when they do your blood test. You will get a peek at about 1 to 1 1/2 days and it then your blood levels fall from there. see: Medibolics.com
I personally think being really active makes your levels fall faster since you have more blood flow to the inject site than say some who is sedentary. That is just speculation on my part though.

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Typically, i am going for blood work its first thing before 10am usually there at 8am and is two days after my injection, really 1 1/2 as i tend to take my test shot late afternoon and do the blood work first thing in the am.

As of the last almost 4 weeks i have been doing 200MG shot on monday and then 200mg shot on friday… feeling better so clearly the more is required.

This is a shot as of recently, STill really big lots of belly fat but my legs and arms are leaning out alot.

13

As previously stated Tamoxifen falls into a category referred to as a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator). This simply means that it blocks the estrogen receptor in certain tissues including breast tissue. SERMS are effective at combating Gynecomastia but do nothing for the other negative side effects of elevated E2. The other category is an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor). AI’S are the preferred medication for us guys on TRT as they actually prevent the conversion of the almighty Testosterone to E2. Your old gym buddies will be familiar with Adex (Arimidex) which is the brand name of the most common AI Anastrozole.

Most of us on here have spent a significant amount of time tweaking our protocols. It is a frustrating process.

Remember that more T is not always better.

Great progress Mike.

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Thanks Hook… I will be getting into see the doctor asap and see about getting onto a AI. I have never heard them reference E2 or estrogen levels… really untill i had the really itchy breast and sore ness i had never heard of it being a issues.

15

Growing breasts is obviously a nasty side effect of elevated E2 and must be dealt with ASAP. Once the breast tissue becomes fibrous it cannot not be reversed with medication and can only be rectified with surgery. I was prescribed Raloxifene (SERM) when I had a very aggressive bout of Gyno while on Androgel. It worked very well.

Other side effects of elevated E2 are almost identical to those of low Testosterone. These include: lethargy, weak erections, little to no libido, moodiness and depression etc. etc.

It is fairly telling that on such a high dose of TRT your doctor has not discussed the issue with you let alone considered prescribing you an AI.

Good luck with your doctor and don’t be surprised if you are more knowledgeable on the topic than he/she is after a little reading.

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yup all he has been worried about and cheked was my prostate to ensure it was not going hard…