New Business Failures

What is this “government run by and for the people” you are referring to? Socialism? If you are talking about socialism, it shows that you have no idea how socialism is applied.

If you believe Bernie and his cronies are going to give you that, you are a fool. ANYONE who resorts to spouting “moral” rhetoric either thinks his audience is stupid or he/she really has nothing to offer that can work.

As long as the government does not intervene in the market, I don’t care what people decide to set up. They should be free to do whatever they want within the law.

But who is “One”?

You?

I don’t see you doing jack shit other than complaining. Even if you don’t have the resources, why don’t you go study up on how to run a co-op and start educating people for a start?

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Well it’s WV. Probably one of the least minority friendly places in the country.

But still. Zep made a funny. :+1:

You say shit like this and I wonder why you advocate for more government … you have a bad case of cognitive dissonance

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I said:

You respond:

I’m starting to understand why getting through to you is so tough.

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Oh my, proposed decentralization of collective wage bargaining?

"We believe that there are strong reasons for individualized
wage setting, "

OMG! The corporations have got to them! :

Outsourcing and market solutions(this means privatization) are feasible for other services
of a more private nature, like education, hospital care and
care for the elderly. This may improve service quality by making
providers more responsive to client needs and staff more task-oriented.”

Oh NOOOOO…:

“Given the projected
demographics, welfare services will not only absorb huge resources
but will also cause serious pressure on tax rates. In the end this
pressure can be alleviated only by capping the public provision
and/or tax-financed provision of welfare services in one way or
another. This is already what happens, as municipalities find
themselves financially squeezed and react by lowering quality
and/or rationing of, e.g., health and old-age care (thereby creating
queues).”

What? They’re not socialist? Low regulations?:

“There exists a straw man version of the Nordic model. This is the
perception of the Nordic model as a socialist experiment with
stifling taxes and heavy-handed regulation where paternalistic
bureaucrats decide the fate of citizens from cradle to grave.”

Christ! The propaganda from the bourgeois has got to them!:

“Nevertheless, the liberalization of financial
markets must be seen as a key step in the development of the
market economy in the Nordic countries. It led to a rapid development
of financial markets with interest rates determined by the
market rather than administrative regulation, improved liquidity,
a broad variety of financing alternatives and investment outlets,
and better possibilities for managing risk.”

Com…com…competition???:

“As technological change is to a significant degree associated
with the emergence of new and more productive firms, the degree
of competition is potentially an important element behind TFP
growth. One way for public policy to influence competition is
through reform of regulatory policies – a less regulated economy
makes it easier to establish new firms and thereby enhance competition
in the economy.”

Supply-side economics??? What???

“Also, in
the new environment the Nordic countries have reoriented their
policy concern about competitiveness towards policies that pay
more attention to the supply side of the economy and that support
R&D and innovation.”

I can’t go on, Comrade! I’m sorry! I cannot read anymore! This is counter-revolutionary feces you have made me read! Propaganda by Capitalist swine! They are puppets of the Bourgeois! Brainwashed by Fascist regimes! I fear I will sent to be reeducated by our Great Leader if I were to continue!

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Progressive… regressive… bah! Semantics! Like democratic socialism and social democracy.

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Terrible! Shameful!:

“It is a good time to reconsider the boundary between the private and
the public sector. Financial markets have developed enormously,
which together with technological advances, especially in the information
and communication sectors, has led to new, successful
business models, which the public sector should try to emulate and
exploit. Exposing selected parts of the public sector to competition
can have big efficiency payoffs.”

What??? What is this Capitalist swill???:

8.1 THE VIRTUES OF COMPETITION (Page 137; should be read in it’s entirety for counterpoints.)”

The magic of competition is that the customers’ welfare will
be taken care of by profit maximizing shop owners, merely because
customers can walk out – or exit in Albert O. Hirschman’s famous
language – if they are dissatisfied with the price that a coffee shop
offers. Voluntary trade paired with competition will provide enough
information about customer preferences to allocate services efficiently.”

“The efficiency of a competitive equilibrium holds much more
generally. Shops could invest in capacity or, when customers have
different preferences, choose what types of services to offer. As they
maximize profits, shop owners will optimally trade off the benefits
and costs of customers, too. They will also seek the best way to
organize the coffee shop: the number of workers to employ, the
training they have, the hours they work, how much to pay them
and what fringe benefits to provide them. Loosely speaking, as
long as all direct stakeholders(not referring to owing shares in the business) – the customers, workers and suppliers
– have competitive alternatives to choose from, the resulting
market outcome will maximize social welfare in the Pareto sense
describe above. Shop owners will receive a market determined
return on their time and investment, but not more, while the
stakeholders will be at least as well off as they would with their
best alternatives”"

PROPAGANDA FROM THE RULING CLASS!!!

"A government that is powerful
enough to protect the rights of its citizens is also powerful enough to
take these rights away. "

“Yet, there is a big difference
between the government and firms: Citizens have few options to
exit(government), while the power of firms is held in check by voluntary trade.”

So much propaganda! Not remunerating employees differently according to their value doesn’t work??? Some people are worth, and should be paid a lot more than others? LIES!!! CAPITALIST HORSESHIT!!!:

“To improve productivity, firms have to
make complementary investments in human capital and changed
work practices of the order of three to five times the investments
in IT.12 What is especially troublesome from the public sector’s
perspective is that the changes in work practices that are essential
include higher work autonomy and more powerful financial
incentives (usually for teams of workers). Given the problems of
accountability in the public sector and the bureaucracy built to deal
with them, it is going to be hard to change the whole system. Yet,
if these complementary investments are not made, the evidence
from the private sector shows that returns from IT investments
are often minimal, even negative.”

More rubbish! Capitalism is eating itself!:

"(On outsourcing to private firms)In a large study of British emergency hospitals strong performance
incentives caused dramatic improvements in waiting times
**without any noticeable adverse effects on treatment.**16 In Finland,
local governments have rapidly outsourced ambulatory physician
services to private companies. The private firms can take advantage
of economies of scale by servicing large areas covering many
local governments. So far, both cost and quality have improved
at MedOne, the largest of the private suppliers, with throughput
per euro increasing an estimated 20 per cent and patient as well
as worker satisfaction ratings up."

Zep, we cannot let our Comrades read this! You must extract this Capitalist masquerading as Socialist document from your computer and burn it! BERN IT!

The Capitalists must not win this time! The stakes are too high! Remember our fallen comrades!

BERN IT!

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I love the title of the “indepth analysis” too.

Embracing GLOBALIZATION. When we do that it’s not fair to all those people who’s jobs are shipped overseas. A non-sense position, no… A contradiction, no…

Lol @dt79 covered it well…

I’m glad my capitalism loving ass has avoided this cluster fuck of a thread all week.

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No they do not, moron. There is a net savings. It costs less. Saving trillions over a 10 year period. Here is a study funded by the Koch brothers from the libertarian think-tank The Mercatus Center. They couldn’t deny it as much as they tried to inflate the numbers, making single-payer look bad. Saving money while covering EVERYONE.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf

A government that looks out for the needs of the population instead of primarily for the ultra-wealthy. A stronger welfare system, with higher taxation.

I am. I’m educating the fools on this forum.

They already do at the behest of their donors and lobbyists. They help to protect markets for those who want to stifle competition(corporations) and keep their cartel-like economic status. All the while the population has to suffer

You equate a government run for the benefit of the ultra-wealthy with a government run by the people, as if there is no difference.

In this fairy-tale, is there a hierarchy in decision making or is it just mob rule? How do these people run the government? Do you vote them in?

These are genuine questions and I truly want to know what this “government run by the people” looks like.

From the first line of the abstract

The leading current bill to establish single-payer health insurance, the Medicare for All Act
(M4A), would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by
approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation (2022–2031),
assuming enactment in 2018.

Edit: goddamn you’re dumb. When you start covering millions of people that previously had no insurance, of course it’s going to cost more. Good god man

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You are forgetting that most of the tax paying population is NOT ultra-wealthy but makes up a large percentage of the country. They will have their taxes increased because you want them to pay for more stuff for you.

Forcing them do this through the force of govenment is not a government “by and for the people”.

Repeating “corportions bad, co-ops good” isn’t educating anyone.

Then get the government out of the market. Why make tax payers suffer by insisting on Big Government and raising taxes while allowing this to continue?

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Especially when he personally supports corporations and doesn’t support a single co op

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aaaaaand another deflection by Zeppy baby.

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So you take out what you think is positive for your ideology and forget the rest.

From another study viewing the detrimental side of the Nordic economies.

The Nordic crises have their roots in the process of financial liberalization that was carried out in a monetary regime based on pegged but adjustable exchange rates. In the 1980s, the financial systems of Finland, Norway and Sweden underwent major deregulation.

policy-makers were not able to discern the risks inherent in the process of financial liberalization.

Oh no… financial liberalization may not be completely understood along with having some very negative effects.

financial liberalization and credit expansion have proved to be major driving forces behind boom-bust cycles across the globe.

A common feature of Capitalism.

There should be no doubt that the financial opening up of Finland, Norway and Sweden was the main impulse that initiated a sequence of events that brought these economies into deep depression.

One important lesson concerns the long-run effects of the crises. They contributed to major changes and restructuring, which transformed the Nordics into some of the fastest-growing economies in Europe. Wha?

Haha this exchange just made my day.

Zeppy: you’re a moron, it costs less. Here’s a paper

First line in the paper: it costs more

That’s pure gold right there. Reading one sentence further in the abstract “Doubling all currently projected federal individual and corporate income tax collections would be insufficient to finance the added federal costs of the plan”

haha wow, no wonder these threads go in circles.

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“Yet, there is a big difference
between the government and firms: Citizens have few options to
exit(government), while the power of firms is held in check by voluntary trade.”

Yeah right, tell that to the corporations who pay off politicians to quell any competition.

What has Capitalism done for the public in the U.S. recently(a few decades)?

You forgot sharing risks.