Nerdishness And The Male Animal

I’ve just dug up this fascinating article on nerds by the controversial political thinker, Steve Sailer.

http://www.isteve.com/nerds.htm

In the article, Sailer speculates that nerdishness is just another manifestation of masculinity and then defines nerdishness by comparing it to the rather more well-known archetype of masculinity, the “Big Man”. From the article:

[i]1. Nerds are more “object-oriented,” Big Men are more people-oriented.

  1. Nerds tend to focus narrowly but deeply (single-tasking), Big Men broadly but shallowly (multitasking). Nerds lack the “situational awareness” that the Air Force prizes in fighter pilots, but their ability to concentrate obsessively makes them good at designing the planes that pilots fly.

  2. Nerds work best asynchronously (as Howard says, they never say the right thing at the right time – I can vividly recall walking along after a college history class, thinking about the Austro-Hungarian Empire, when some black friend passing by said, “Hey, what’s happening?”

“Hmmhmmh???,” I thought to myself in consternation, “What exactly is happening? Well, the Austro-Hungarian Empire is definitely not happening, but what is?” About five minutes later, I came up with a clever, but by now useless, reply, which later I could never seem to remember the next time somebody asked me "What’s happening?).

In contrast, Big Men are better when they are “in the flow” (of the discussion, the hunt, the battle, the basketball game, or whatever).

Interestingly, in terms of cerebral skills, nerds tend to be more stereotypically masculine than Big Men, who benefit from stereotypically female mental skills like emotional intuition and multi-tasking. In contrast, nerds tend to be less traditionally masculine than Big Men in physical/emotional traits like muscularity, self-confidence, aggressiveness, etc.[/i]

I believe that the T-Nation comprises a healthy mix of both nerds and Big Men. With these characteristics in mind, one could read an article and then easily designate to which type the author belongs (Unless of course a nerd is doing fantastic job of emulating a big man. Let’s face it, only nerds emulate other nerds).

For instance, I would wager that Christian Thibadeaux is nerd in meathead’s clothing: his acute attention to detail betrays his nerdish obessiveness. By contrast, TC Luoma sets out to beat the reader down at the beginning of the article while simultaneously building him up, drill sergeant/big man style (nerds make terrible drill sergeants, by the way).

Also, TC’s articles address the emotional psyche of the reader, albeit in an extremely masculine way, whereas Thibadeaux’s articles are essentially formulas intended to be executed by the reader in a precise, mechanical fashion.

It’s of course counterintuitive to assume that a bodybuilding site would attract nerds as well as jocks, but it makes sense if you think about it. Nerds are just as competitive as Big Men, if not more so (You think being in a gym can be intimidating? Try submitting a scientific paper for peer review), but nerds lack the “situational awareness” and adroitness while “in the flow” that popular real-time sports demand - I recently read an article in ESPN where Quarterback David Carr was criticized for thinking too much instead of just acting; I wonder if he’s a nerd.

In any case, bodybuilding accommodates nerdishness well. It allows the nerd to exercise his strengths: it gives the obsessive nerd adequate time to harness every possible advantage that he can find, and the nerd can use his exceptional capacity for forethought to plan to down to the exact number of reps he’ll need to construct the most efficient possible workout.

Nerds also, it must be said, have trouble with women. Not naturally keen to a woman’s emotional demands like their Big Men brethren, a nerd’s troubles are only compounded by society’s reinforcement of the nutless Wuss.

The poor, diffident nerd may turn to bodybuilding in unconscious attempt to medicate himself, much for the same reasons a scientist will attempt to vindicate his existence by relentlessly pursuing a great discovery.

Einstein said that a scientist will do his best work before he gets married, which is as much to say that a nerd will work hard for recognition, especially from a female, until he gets laid. I speak here from personal experience.

I’d like to get some feedback from my new comrades here at T-Nation. Have any of you made similar observations? Are you a nerd or a Big Man? If you are a nerd, did you get into bodybuilding primarily to attract more women or perhaps was it because you wished to be more like a Big Man?

All comments are welcome.

[quote]Veratyr wrote:
I’ve just dug up this fascinating article on nerds by the controversial political thinker, Steve Sailer.

http://www.isteve.com/nerds.htm

In the article, Sailer speculates that nerdishness is just another manifestation of masculinity and then defines nerdishness by comparing it to the rather more well-known archetype of masculinity, the “Big Man”. From the article:

[i]1. Nerds are more “object-oriented,” Big Men are more people-oriented.

  1. Nerds tend to focus narrowly but deeply (single-tasking), Big Men broadly but shallowly (multitasking). Nerds lack the “situational awareness” that the Air Force prizes in fighter pilots, but their ability to concentrate obsessively makes them good at designing the planes that pilots fly.

  2. Nerds work best asynchronously (as Howard says, they never say the right thing at the right time – I can vividly recall walking along after a college history class, thinking about the Austro-Hungarian Empire, when some black friend passing by said, “Hey, what’s happening?”

“Hmmhmmh???,” I thought to myself in consternation, “What exactly is happening? Well, the Austro-Hungarian Empire is definitely not happening, but what is?” About five minutes later, I came up with a clever, but by now useless, reply, which later I could never seem to remember the next time somebody asked me "What’s happening?).

In contrast, Big Men are better when they are “in the flow” (of the discussion, the hunt, the battle, the basketball game, or whatever).

Interestingly, in terms of cerebral skills, nerds tend to be more stereotypically masculine than Big Men, who benefit from stereotypically female mental skills like emotional intuition and multi-tasking. In contrast, nerds tend to be less traditionally masculine than Big Men in physical/emotional traits like muscularity, self-confidence, aggressiveness, etc.[/i]

I believe that the T-Nation comprises a healthy mix of both nerds and Big Men. With these characteristics in mind, one could read an article and then easily designate to which type the author belongs (Unless of course a nerd is doing fantastic job of emulating a big man. Let’s face it, only nerds emulate other nerds).

For instance, I would wager that Christian Thibadeaux is nerd in meathead’s clothing: his acute attention to detail betrays his nerdish obessiveness. By contrast, TC Luoma sets out to beat the reader down at the beginning of the article while simultaneously building him up, drill sergeant/big man style (nerds make terrible drill sergeants, by the way).

Also, TC’s articles address the emotional psyche of the reader, albeit in an extremely masculine way, whereas Thibadeaux’s articles are essentially formulas intended to be executed by the reader in a precise, mechanical fashion.

It’s of course counterintuitive to assume that a bodybuilding site would attract nerds as well as jocks, but it makes sense if you think about it. Nerds are just as competitive as Big Men, if not more so (You think being in a gym can be intimidating? Try submitting a scientific paper for peer review), but nerds lack the “situational awareness” and adroitness while “in the flow” that popular real-time sports demand - I recently read an article in ESPN where Quarterback David Carr was criticized for thinking too much instead of just acting; I wonder if he’s a nerd.

In any case, bodybuilding accommodates nerdishness well. It allows the nerd to exercise his strengths: it gives the obsessive nerd adequate time to harness every possible advantage that he can find, and the nerd can use his exceptional capacity for forethought to plan to down to the exact number of reps he’ll need to construct the most efficient possible workout.

Nerds also, it must be said, have trouble with women. Not naturally keen to a woman’s emotional demands like their Big Men brethren, a nerd’s troubles are only compounded by society’s reinforcement of the nutless Wuss.

The poor, diffident nerd may turn to bodybuilding in unconscious attempt to medicate himself, much for the same reasons a scientist will attempt to vindicate his existence by relentlessly pursuing a great discovery.

Einstein said that a scientist will do his best work before he gets married, which is as much to say that a nerd will work hard for recognition, especially from a female, until he gets laid. I speak here from personal experience.

I’d like to get some feedback from my new comrades here at T-Nation. Have any of you made similar observations? Are you a nerd or a Big Man? If you are a nerd, did you get into bodybuilding primarily to attract more women or perhaps was it because you wished to be more like a Big Man?

All comments are welcome.
[/quote]

Nice post!

I read that article, and I too would like to hear what readers think.

Total nerd checking in, since the description fits me almost exactly.

The direct answer to why I lift is because I want to be more physically able to perform tasks in life. I think this comes from being a weak kid/younger adult, seeing peers do things that I couldn’t come close to do (dunk/run fast/lift heavy shit with ease). I was, hell, I am jealous of what others can do and I’m trying to get to that point as well.

At first I think that this is only the desire to be Big Man, but I realize it can also be to attract women, to show them I’m a worthy mate. It seems like the two goals you mentioned are not mutally exclusive.

Oh, if only I could find a stereotype that would adequately describe me.

“At first I think that this is only the desire to be Big Man, but I realize it can also be to attract women, to show them I’m a worthy mate. It seems like the two goals you mentioned are not mutually exclusive.”

You’re right, they aren’t. Anyone with a vague understanding of evolutionary biology knows that most animal behavior is programmed into a species by their genes for the propagation and preservation of said genes: this is the lynchpin of the popular new study, evolutionary psychology.

Humans are exceptional in this regard, and the Raison D’etre for the insertion of the qualifying word “most”, but we’re not all that different; we, especially males who aren’t necessarily bound to their offspring, want to fuck just as much as any other being with a pair of testicles.

A better set of questions would be: If you are a nerd, why did you get into bodybuilding? Did you wish to become merely physically attractive while retaining your nerdy personality or did you seek to become more like a Big Man?

As an aside, I also think that individual personalities can be reflected by the music they listen to. Based on a very limited set of observations, I believe that masculine nerds gravitate towards the rigid, technical genre of classical music, as well as the more contemporary genres of heavy metal (Meshuggah \m/) and hard rock, whereas Big Men prefer music that is “in-the-flow” and highly improvised, like rap and jazz. Weird Al drew attention to these contrasts in his parody “White & Nerdy”, which is just another testament to his sheer genius.

[quote]Veratyr wrote:

As an aside, I also think that individual personalities can be reflected by the music they listen to. Based on a very limited set of observations, I believe that masculine nerds gravitate towards the rigid, technical genre of classical music, as well as the more contemporary genres of heavy metal (Meshuggah \m/) and hard rock, whereas Big Men prefer music that is “in-the-flow” and highly improvised, like rap and jazz. Weird Al drew attention to these contrasts in his parody “White & Nerdy”, which is just another testament to his sheer genius.
[/quote]

I think you are reaching.

This is the dumbest thing that I’ve read today, (I didn’t read article just original post). Besides the stupid generalization about music, (which I don’t believe at all), I am quite sure that there are more than two classes of men, and I bet the number of men that fall in between nerd and “big man” far outweigh the number in either category.

I do agree a lot with what’s said in the original. It describes me well.

In fact, someone I associate a lot with is Lonnie Lowery, dubbed the “Warrior Nerd”. He’s got the same blend of nerdiness, deep focus, almost surgical precision in his articles that I like in CT’s. And both used their brains to build their brawns.

Brains and brawns, a potent combo!

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Oh, if only I could find a stereotype that would adequately describe me.[/quote]

What is the archetype of people who want to be archetyped? :wink:

“I am quite sure that there are more than two classes of men, and I bet the number of men that fall in between nerd and “big man” far outweigh the number in either category.”

This is a common reaction, err, objection to any attempt to generalize and differentiate people into groups. It’s certainly true that bogus personality tests like the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator are largely not statistically valid for the reason haphazardly thrown out by Joe84.

However, this criticism doesn’t bear upon all generalizations: if we were to construct an experiment that could test for “Nerdishness” and “Big Manitude” and quantify them into percentages, I would bet my trading card collection that the resulting distribution is bimodal. Translation: There would be far more men who are essentially nerd or essentially Big Man than those who display a mixed set of traits.

Ok, I might be stretching the bounds of credulity with my theory on music, but good science makes room for speculation. As the philosopher Daniel Dennett said about a somewhat related and equally abstract subject:

“We are going to have to be speculative, but there is good and bad speculation, and this is not an unparalleled activity in science. […] Those scientists who have no taste for this sort of speculative enterprise will just have to stay in the trenches and do without it, while the rest of us risk embarrassing mistakes and have a lot of fun.”

Yea. Try to relate yourself to these studies being interracial (half African American half Lithuanian). Kind of like walking right on the line. I never know either way.

[quote]Joe84 wrote:
This is the dumbest thing that I’ve read today, (I didn’t read article just original post). Besides the stupid generalization about music, (which I don’t believe at all), I am quite sure that there are more than two classes of men, and I bet the number of men that fall in between nerd and “big man” far outweigh the number in either category.[/quote]

Logic and reality is not applicable in these time wasting discussions!

Cud o’s to you sir. I think you may have a good theory you should consider researching it. You described me down to a tee, as the masculine nerd. Those are my broad music preferences.
I got into lifting cause i wanted to be a big man, i stay cause i love to lift!

I think too many people try to ‘fit in’ to some category of masculinity by justifying their behaviour and thoughts.

I used to be a ‘nerd’. I was never and never will be a ‘Big Man’. I could never understood why people seem to state that there is and should only be one kind of man, someone who is the epitomy of masculinity, in other words the Big Man or Alpha Male.

Being a total socially inept loser is something else, but I feel that nowadays everyone gets shoved into two extremes - the total loser (or ‘Nice Guy’ when it comes to women) and the Big Man (more along the lines of the ‘Jerk’).

The overall point of my post is probably very unclear. My point is, I am not a Nerd or a Big Man. I don’t agree with searching for stereotypes in order to make some rich, but lonely software developer feel like more of a man just because he isn’t a ‘player’ like his Big Man friend.

I don’t think my masculinity is defined by my looks, my job, my income, or how many women I sleep with each week. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether I speculate on the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or whether I can say something funny and smart really quickly.

I think what defines a man is ‘what’s in his heart’ as I read somewhere here. I think masculinity is defined by how a man handles problems and how he provides for his family. ‘Nerds’ and ‘Big Men’ are IMO just extremes of personalities that get thrown around a lot. I see no need to categorize masculinity this way. I see masculinity as something un-categorizable, untangible. I think it’s also something hard to describe, and challenging to learn.
I think when it’s there, you know it’s there.

I also think that I’ve gone overboard with this post lol. I probably took that article in a very wrong way and not at all as how it was supposed to be read. But I just feel… that trying to make types of masculinity is just stupid and a waste of time.

This article probably wasn’t meant for someone my age either, but it was a very interesting read. Bleh.

DerCandy

I’m glad you liked the article; this one might resonate a bit more with you.

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/070319_diversity.htm

It’s written by the same author who inspired the original post, and it focuses on Finnish nerds specifically:

[i]The Finns have developed a distinctive national personality: tough nerds.

A classic example is Paavo Nurmi, the “Flying Finn” who won nine Olympic gold medals in 1920-1928. His scientific approach to training and running (he always raced with a stopwatch in his hand) revolutionized distance running.

The nerd side of Finland has become more visible in recent years. Finn Linus Torvalds created the Linux computer operating system that’s challenging Microsoft Windows. Finland’s Nokia sold $53 billion dollars worth of cell phones last year. (One Finnish idiosyncrasy is that traffic fines are proportional to income, so a Nokia director was handed a $103,600 speeding ticket in 2002.)

Perhaps the toughest nerd of them all was Simo Hayha, the greatest sniper ever. The terrified soldiers of the invading Red Army called him “the White Death” because he shot 505 Soviet troops during 100 days of the 1939-1940 Winter War, or almost one per hour of daylight. Hayha personally killed more enemy soldiers than Saddam’s entire Iraqi Army did during the 1991 Gulf War.[/i]

As the article demonstrates, a tough nerd would excel at a narrow athletic task that demands obsessive focus.

I thought it was an interesting read. I don’t usually give much weight to sterotypes and gross generalizations. There may be some truth in them, but they mostly just tell us about how our brain filters the world, not how the world actually is.

I found myself all over both sides of the masculine/feminine, BigMan/Nerd line that the writer presented at different times in my life. Four years ago when I was a skinny vegetarian, I had more of the Nerd qualities, and some of the feminine qualites as he described them.

Now that I train, and eat better, I would lean more towards the BigMan archetype.

I have always believed more in Nurture over Nature anyway.

Here’s my hypothesis, which unfortunately I cannot test. It’s a very long shot, so feel free to not take it seriously.

There are two testosterone peaks during a male’s life: one before birth while still “in utero”, the other around 16 yr or so.

It could be that a big testosterone spike “in utero” produces a hypermasculine brain (the “nerd” brain, slightly autistic, very good at logic, 3D thinking, abstract thinking, etc. but below average in terms of emotional intelligence) but leaves the body at fairly average parameters.

A big testosterone spike at the age of 15 - 16 produces the “big guy” but it’s too late to change the brain too much.

And maybe some guys are lucky enough to get two big spikes - the brain of a Ph.D. and the body of an athlete. Fairly rare, but there are some cases.

I think the theory can actually be tested - all it takes is around 20 years or so, and plenty of fetal blood samples. :slight_smile:

[quote]florin wrote:
Here’s my hypothesis, which unfortunately I cannot test. It’s a very long shot, so feel free to not take it seriously.

There are two testosterone peaks during a male’s life: one before birth while still “in utero”, the other around 16 yr or so.

It could be that a big testosterone spike “in utero” produces a hypermasculine brain (the “nerd” brain, slightly autistic, very good at logic, 3D thinking, abstract thinking, etc. but below average in terms of emotional intelligence) but leaves the body at fairly average parameters.

A big testosterone spike at the age of 15 - 16 produces the “big guy” but it’s too late to change the brain too much.

And maybe some guys are lucky enough to get two big spikes - the brain of a Ph.D. and the body of an athlete. Fairly rare, but there are some cases.

I think the theory can actually be tested - all it takes is around 20 years or so, and plenty of fetal blood samples. :-)[/quote]

The length of ones ring finger in relation to the index finger is said to reflect the amount of testosterone one received in utero. This relation is also said to correlate with mathematical skills, aggression and athletic abilities. The proof for these assumptions is based on statistics.
If these findings are true, I would guess that the members of this site tend to have relatively long ring fingers. Though the human psyche is multifaceted, so there are more factors in play than testosterone alone.

Veratyr…I mean this with all respect…your erudite posts don’t seem to gel at all with your pic.

[quote]Veratyr wrote:
DerCandy

I’m glad you liked the article; this one might resonate a bit more with you.

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/070319_diversity.htm

It’s written by the same author who inspired the original post, and it focuses on Finnish nerds specifically:

[i]The Finns have developed a distinctive national personality: tough nerds.

A classic example is Paavo Nurmi, the “Flying Finn” who won nine Olympic gold medals in 1920-1928. His scientific approach to training and running (he always raced with a stopwatch in his hand) revolutionized distance running.

The nerd side of Finland has become more visible in recent years. Finn Linus Torvalds created the Linux computer operating system that’s challenging Microsoft Windows. Finland’s Nokia sold $53 billion dollars worth of cell phones last year. (One Finnish idiosyncrasy is that traffic fines are proportional to income, so a Nokia director was handed a $103,600 speeding ticket in 2002.)

Perhaps the toughest nerd of them all was Simo Hayha, the greatest sniper ever. The terrified soldiers of the invading Red Army called him “the White Death” because he shot 505 Soviet troops during 100 days of the 1939-1940 Winter War, or almost one per hour of daylight. Hayha personally killed more enemy soldiers than Saddam’s entire Iraqi Army did during the 1991 Gulf War.[/i]

As the article demonstrates, a tough nerd would excel at a narrow athletic task that demands obsessive focus.
[/quote]

Ha ha, awesome!