Need Some Opinions, 6 Oxo?

Training Over 35 Lifter
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[quote]happydog48 wrote:
It’s only natural for us to believe that what works for us will work for others and sometimes that is true and sometimes it isn’t. It’s also natural to look for easy answers to complex problems and sometimes the answers turn out to be true and sometimes they don’t.

The bottom line is that you’re simply going to have to experiment on yourself and find what works for you and what doesn’t. But there is a lot of knowledge available to help you in your quest and I’m one of those guys who thinks it’s always better to know more.

Specifics - 6OXO - I’ve tried it and got no results. I’ve never known anyone to say it worked for them, but that’s just my experience.

My biggest problem with it these days is that even if you find it effective as an aromatase inhibitor (AI), there are other AIs that work better and cost less (anastrozole - aka arimidex/liquidex/adex/etc.)

Most guys do fine on the liquid version which can be legally bought over the counter from the research chemical houses, but a very small percentage find the pills do better for them, but they are prescription only and getting a prescription can be difficult. As always, you could buy off shore if necessary, but I’d definitely try the liquid version first.

See the sticky on Estradiol for the story on Aromatase Inhibitors.

Getting in Shape - always a good idea, but it can also improve your hormone profile because fat produces both estrogen and aromatase. So getting and staying lean is a good way to do the best for yourself in many ways, including hormones.

TRIBEX - aka tribulus - the mechanism by which tribulus works is debated, but most seem to believe that its testosterone boosting effect comes by mimicking luteinizing hormone (LH) which is the hormone that tells your testes to produce testosterone.

This is fine if you have secondary hypogonadism but will be utterly useless if you have primary hypogonadism. Many older guys (and some younger ones) have a bit of both, so whether or not trib gives you a boost is a crap shoot at best. I got a small boost from it but nothing like real TRT.

jackdeth - with your numbers, most doctors aren’t going to see you was a candidate for TRT, so you’re probably going to have to do everything on your own. So do what you can.

  1. Get rid of the fat - no getting around this. If you’re carrying excess fat then you’re not “eating right” no matter what you think. Do whatever it takes to get rid of the fat. Period.

  2. Control estrogen - at your age, there’s a decent chance that you’re becoming estrogen dominant and this COULD account for all your symptoms. Besides controlling fat, taking an aromatase inhibitor is the best way to control estrogen.

Give it a try and see how it works for you. You can get a years supply of anastrozole for under $100 and you’ll have a proven effective AI that many of us take (me included).

As always, keep reading and researching and educate yourself so that you’re not dependent on other people’s knowledge (or lack thereof).

Good luck and don’t lose hope![/quote]

Thank you for the detailed message. Can you suggest where to gt the AI and have you ever heard of AIFM? Their claims sound good, but like I said I am brand new to this. So what your saying is that I don’t really need a T boost, just a AI? Sounds all confusing. Sorry for being a noob at this and thanks again.

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Check your messages.

As for needing a T boost, of course it would be a good idea, the question is how. You can try the “natural” boosters and see if they help. If they do, it won’t be by much, but some guys feel that it’s all good no matter how little it is. I personally don’t feel they are cost effective, but we each have to make that call for ourselves.

By using an AI, you will most likely get a T boost if your HPTA is functioning. It will sense the reduction in E and compensate by producing more T. But even if that doesn’t happen, an AI can increase T simply by the fact that it isn’t being lost to E conversion.

One of the points here is that it isn’t all about testosterone. Testosterone is just one of the partners in the intricate dance of hormones that determine how we feel and function.

Keep studying and you’ll get it all sorted out.

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Great stuff happydog. Thanks for the info. I may have to try the AI. Can you get a small amount of this to try out.

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[quote]jackdeath wrote:
Nich wrote:
I am only 29 but I am “enhanced”
I started looking into TRT and all that when I found out that I had low test and I have tried all the herbs and the store bought stuff per doc request because he was real hesitant to perscribe me testosterone,someone my age shouldnt have low test problems he said.

6oxo,I still have a bottle of it put up,did nothing for my numbers at all.
I dont have them off hand and I wont even gues at what they were but I do know with taking a trib and 6oxo my numbers stayed the same.

I was told that whatever you produce naturaly the tribulus will help you maximise that but it wont “boost” test per se.

only thing that helped was actual test.
I also take liqidex from a research chem place and only problem I have is when I take too much my knees ache.
I need to try and find the tabs and give them a try see if I notice a difference.

if I remember right you want your test levels to be high
the normal levels and the “low normal” like mine was are just not right and we still feel like crud because of it.

I know i was told its getting low but its within the normal range
I was tired all the time ,no sex drive,depressed,started gaining weight and wasnt eating

started taking test and I instantly felt new again.

And where do you get this from? I know my doctor is not going to put me on this, so what I do I do for myself. The guy who said “suck it up”, I’ve been doing that for years and all it gets you when your body is not up to par is hurt. Also I’m not up on all the abbreviations you guys used, care to enlighten me? Thanks everyone for the feedback.
[/quote]

check your messages :slight_smile:

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[quote]jackdeath wrote:

Pretty expensive for the average guy. There is no other way through a supplement that will help? [/quote]

Places like this are really legalized steroid dealers. They bump you to the top of your range and cater to cops and firefighters, and military guys. Their prices reflect what they do.

The costs are most at the front end. Can you submit the bills to insurance? Most will pay.

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[quote]Headhunter wrote:
jackdeath wrote:

Pretty expensive for the average guy. There is no other way through a supplement that will help?

[red]Places like this are really legalized steroid dealers.[/red] They bump you to the top of your range and cater to cops and firefighters, and military guys. Their prices reflect what they do.

The costs are most at the front end. Can you submit the bills to insurance? Most will pay.

[/quote]

That was pretty much the impression I got from looking at some of these. We have one that advertises in the newspapers on a regular basis and that is exactly what they looked like to me.

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HelmetMJC wrote:
hey bill. thanks for the great info so far. this might be a bit off topic. but what are your thoughts on 6-oxo?

Well, you’re asking me to comment on another supplement company’s product, which generally I don’t personally think appropriate.

But in this case there’s a bit of a rare exception to that as there’s a recent interesting study which would add to discussion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...Pubmed_RVDocSum

Now, it is impossible to tell from the abstract whether the chemical analysis was done in a valid manner or not. If they used an immunological method then the data could well be crap. But if it’s GC/MS, then it’s what happened.

Also their not finding body composition changes really does not prove anything, as there are lots of studies that have failed to find positive body composition changes from anabolic steroids, yet we do know that they work.

It just that some studies fail to find effects that do exist. So, when seeing no result in something like this study, really the correct reaction is “Hmmm” not “Well that proves it doesn’t work!”

I never did think that the compound would increase muscle by the mechanism that it’s generally assumed to work by, because pharmaceutical aromatase inhibitors are not muscle builders for (relatively) younger men not suffering from testosterone deficiency.

So why would a supplement-type aromatase inhibitor be expected to add muscle by that mechanism?

But the fact is that many customers do feel they get gains from it, so I’ve assumed that the mechanism of benefit is probably different than what is generally assumed. (An example other mechanism could be as a precursor of 6-oxotestosterone, if that compound is active. I don’t know if it is.)

It’s a product that has been successful on the market long-term, and I am personally confident that if it did not work in terms of giving discernible benefit, Patrick Arnold would have spotted that long ago. OK, 'nuff said.

this was posted to me in another forum, hope it helps