Need Good Bone-Building Supp

Nutrition
1

Looking for a really good Ca supplement.

While looking, I found these guys, and the product seems… interesting, to say the least. Whadday think?

www.algaecal.com/strontium.html

The supp has Mg in a ratio of Ca:Mg 2:1, vitamin K2, a bunch of other trace minerals, and strontium. The studies they provide show that at least it has results, but sadly it doesn’t compare their supp with “normal” Ca carbonate (guess I can compare what they provide with a study examining CaCO3)

Since I want to deadlift 320 kg/700 in the next 7-10 years*, and since dr. McGill says spine strength a limiting factor in disc strength, I decided I’ve got to get my bones stronger than steel, since I don’t want to spend my old age in a wheelchair (as many guys in the gym where I train like to joke…)

  • (180 now, 200 by end of year - if nothing breaks-, 30, 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 3, 2 /subsequent year should get me to 320 by 32 y.o…)

Anyway, can anyone recommend a good bone-building supp? Or tell me whether the one I posted really is THE shit? (strontium seems really cool…)

Thank you very much,
Eisen

2

Calcium Citrate Malate - probably the best for full absorption and utilization

Vitamin D3 - essential for the body to optimally utilize calcium in food we consume.

Even if you didn’t take a calcium supp and only took the D, you’d notice your nails growing faster.

EDIT to add: Nothing builds bone strength better than resistance training - especially exercises which place heavy loads on the entire body at once. Squats, deadlifts, heavy OHP…

3

Thanks ID,
heard about CCM before, but wondering if what I mentioned might be better. Or would it be better to take CCM, magnesium, vitamins D3 and K2, and strontium separately?

D3: if I don’t stay in the sun I take some 10000 IU daily.

But, AFAIK, vitamin K2 and magnesium are also essential.

And, I think that regardless of how much one would lift, if the body didn’t have the required resources (Ca, Mg, P, vitamins D3 and K2), one’s bones couldn’t get (much) stronger… and I want solid steel, not just “stronger bones”.
Anyway, I DL 2-3 x/week, Sq 1-3 x/week.

4

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Thanks ID,
heard about CCM before, but wondering if what I mentioned might be better. Or would it be better to take CCM, magnesium, vitamins D3 and K2, and strontium separately?

D3: if I don’t stay in the sun I take some 10000 IU daily.

But, AFAIK, vitamin K2 and magnesium are also essential.

And, I think that regardless of how much one would lift, if the body didn’t have the required resources (Ca, Mg, P, vitamins D3 and K2), one’s bones couldn’t get (much) stronger… and I want solid steel, not just “stronger bones”.
Anyway, I DL 2-3 x/week, Sq 1-3 x/week. [/quote]

I think supp stacks as such is a good idea in general, but I do wonder about the effects when taken altogether. Of course I’m no doctor, but I would imagine if the potency and efficacy of supps could be compared to pharmaceuticals as such, then interactions between simultaneous ingestion could be an issue. However, some supps require the aid of another for optimal bio-availability of both. Magnesium and Copper come to mind.

I see that Dr. Oz endorses the AlgaeCal… which leaves me suspicious! lol Still, I’m hesitant about taking supps that cite studies funded by the supp company. This is where really doing your homework helps. lol

I wasn’t aware that Strontium was available as an oral supp. I’d have to do more reading!

You’re right that optimal effects of activity are only as good as the nutritional base, but even osteoporosis studies have shown that with no change in the sufferer’s deficient diet, adding a heavy resistance training regimen slowed or stopped the progression of the disease. Not cardio, not endurance exercise. ONLY weight training!

Given that fact, I believe it would be how effectively you train for your specific lifts that will have the most impact on your success over time. Eat good, sleep well, supp sensibly, and lift like a bull!

5

Look into calcium supplementation and health problems.

what builds strong bones?

  1. weight lifting
  2. optimal magmesium to calcium ratio (note not saying to supplement calcium)
  3. limit foods that leech calcium (dairy can perhaps, but also grains)
  4. eat foods that increase IGF-1 to build bones = meat
  5. eat an alkaline rich diet (veggies, some fruit), meat creates an acidic load but due to the IGF-1 all will be fine
  6. as mentioned Vit D3
6

the problem with drugs and supplements to increase bone health is they don’t work. some give an illusion of better bone health but don’t really do anything. a massive new study shows a link between ca supplementation and heart disease and supplementation with other minerals that might lead to elevated levels in the body are known to increase cancer risk.

the best way to increase bone health in a healthy diet and resistance training.

7

I have looked into the brand the OP questions. I do not believe it is THE shit.

Be careful of taking strontium. We normally consume about 10 mg a day through diet. To improve bone density with this product requires 780 mg of strontium a day. It is also not known if strontium really increases bone density and if so by how much. What IS known is that it improves DEXA scan values because of the way strontium absorbs more xrays than calcium. This is a subject of great debate- no one knows how much it improves true density if at all. What HAS been scientifically shown is that it reduces fracture risk in 70 year old ladies.(See Servier strontium ranelate studies)

Also, the calcium in this product is derived from algae and is therefore marketed as being more “natural” but most experts maintain that calcium is calcium and with something like algae, you are getting ingredients not even listed on the bottle, maybe from potentially polluted sources.

I also really disagree with the way they market the stuff. Seems like they are selling used cars. The owner of the company also sells coral calcium… I have other issues with this company and their marketing schemes but I won’t go into it.

I personally take a 1:1 calcium/magnesium citrate combination. I have looked a lot into what bone health requires and magnesium for me seemed to be something I was really lacking. The minerals all work together in a way no one really understands. I try to get my calcium now from leafy greens and seeds- I am trying to not even rely on milk anymore.

and I agree, vitamin d is the missing link in many cases.

& oh ya, strontium studies have shown that it works by - well long story- but it is has only been prescribed for estrogen deficient women, NOT MEN!!

8

Thank you, JF,
thank you very much, Reconstruction. Saved me good money for the Sr supp…

thanks, Boldar.
AFAIK, the “calcium on arteries” might be caused by a) lack of vit K (2) b) lack of D3 c) lack of Mg, not because Ca would be bad.
Then again, “studies” have “proven” vit C just gives one expensive urine, so I’ll stick with the old recommendations that athletes need (a heap) more of each and every vitamin and mineral. And the new recommendations that everybody actually needs much more than the RDA for optimal health.

So, plain Ca supp + Mg supp + vit K2 + vit D3…

JF, my diet contains close to nil leafy greens and close to nil dairy. Don’t I need a source of Ca? I eat some bone broths once in a while, but I’m pretty sure it’s not enough…
Meaning, can my body build bone if it gets close to nil Ca from the diet?
Asking, because I’m really curious.

Note that I understand well that “anti-catabolic” effects (created by hormones, weight-lifting etc.) seem to be more important than “anabolic” effects (see follistatin). (anti-cat/anabolic relating to anything and everything in the organism, be it muscle, bone or neural tissue)

9

Viagra or Cialas?

EDIT: misread the thread title…

10

You’re 24 years old. I really don’t think your vertebrae are what’s holding you back on deadlifts. Eat enough and get stronger and you’ll have great bones when you’re strong enough to pull 700. You’re way to young to be worrying about this.

Without calcium the heart wouldn’t contract. It’s not about infarctions, it’s about its ability to function properly. Too much isn’t good. Just look at all the shit hypercalcemia can cause. Your “a heap more” attitude worries me.

11

Kakno, it’s not about my age, but that I know my back bothered me in the past, and I don’t want it to cripple me when I’m old.

I’m simply worried about my calcium intake, which is usually close to nil, and due to the fact that even if I did eat more leafy greens, I’d have to eat a sheet-load of them to get even 1 g of Ca/day.

And I didn’t say the vertebrae are holding me back. I said I want to get them as strong as possible as quick as possible in order to protect my discs.

12

[quote]gregron wrote:
Viagra or Cialas?

EDIT: misread the thread title…[/quote]

My first thought too man.

13

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
Thank you, JF,
thank you very much, Reconstruction. Saved me good money for the Sr supp…

thanks, Boldar.
AFAIK, the “calcium on arteries” might be caused by a) lack of vit K (2) b) lack of D3 c) lack of Mg, not because Ca would be bad.
Then again, “studies” have “proven” vit C just gives one expensive urine, so I’ll stick with the old recommendations that athletes need (a heap) more of each and every vitamin and mineral. And the new recommendations that everybody actually needs much more than the RDA for optimal health.

So, plain Ca supp + Mg supp + vit K2 + vit D3…

JF, my diet contains close to nil leafy greens and close to nil dairy. Don’t I need a source of Ca? I eat some bone broths once in a while, but I’m pretty sure it’s not enough…
Meaning, can my body build bone if it gets close to nil Ca from the diet?
Asking, because I’m really curious.

Note that I understand well that “anti-catabolic” effects (created by hormones, weight-lifting etc.) seem to be more important than “anabolic” effects (see follistatin). (anti-cat/anabolic relating to anything and everything in the organism, be it muscle, bone or neural tissue)[/quote]

its not really as simple as just taking the right supplements. it seems to make perfect sense that since bones have a not of calcium in them along with other minerals and proteins that just taking more of this stuff would benefit bone health. there are populations in africa that only get about 250mg of ca a day(if that) and as any internet health warrior will tell you they should be running to get some more ca before their bones become so weak they can no longer stand before the age of 30. but in those populations osteoporosis is unheard of. there is also a population in greenland with a diet with large amounts of ca yet osteoporosis runs very high before age 25.
maybe the greenlanders are missing other stuff? idk? maybe the africans have every part of the diet nailed down perfectly? idk?
just eat plenty of veggies and fruits plus lots of eggs and meat. don’t worry over the details, they won’t make a difference anyway.

14

do not forget the MAGNESIUM ! blows me away sometimes how many people overlook this often overlooked mineral,

damn ; (

15

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:
And I didn’t say the vertebrae are holding me back. I said I want to get them as strong as possible as quick as possible in order to protect my discs.[/quote]

Having strong vertebrae won’t protect your discs. Lifting with proper form and not doing other stupid things in life will.

16

Pcdude,

Dr. McGill noticed that
a) healthy vertebral end-plates means healthy discs, which can resist flexion
b) strong vertebrae mean healthy discs

Ignoring bone health and strengthening when you want longevity in your training (I want to be able to lift at the very least 330 when / if I get to 70… if not 400…depends on whether I’ll lift 700 at 30 some) is not wise.
Just as ignoring inflammation and GH when considering joint health.

17

[quote]boldar wrote:

its not really as simple as just taking the right supplements. it seems to make perfect sense that since bones have a not of calcium in them along with other minerals and proteins that just taking more of this stuff would benefit bone health. there are populations in africa that only get about 250mg of ca a day(if that) and as any internet health warrior will tell you they should be running to get some more ca before their bones become so weak they can no longer stand before the age of 30. but in those populations osteoporosis is unheard of. there is also a population in greenland with a diet with large amounts of ca yet osteoporosis runs very high before age 25.
maybe the greenlanders are missing other stuff? idk? maybe the africans have every part of the diet nailed down perfectly? idk?
just eat plenty of veggies and fruits plus lots of eggs and meat. don’t worry over the details, they won’t make a difference anyway.[/quote]

OK, that Greenland thing is scary…
Someone’s gonna get more K2 and Mg…
ugh… I’ve gotta eat more veggies…sheesh…

18

[quote]Sterneneisen wrote:

[quote]boldar wrote:

its not really as simple as just taking the right supplements. it seems to make perfect sense that since bones have a not of calcium in them along with other minerals and proteins that just taking more of this stuff would benefit bone health. there are populations in africa that only get about 250mg of ca a day(if that) and as any internet health warrior will tell you they should be running to get some more ca before their bones become so weak they can no longer stand before the age of 30. but in those populations osteoporosis is unheard of. there is also a population in greenland with a diet with large amounts of ca yet osteoporosis runs very high before age 25.
maybe the greenlanders are missing other stuff? idk? maybe the africans have every part of the diet nailed down perfectly? idk?
just eat plenty of veggies and fruits plus lots of eggs and meat. don’t worry over the details, they won’t make a difference anyway.[/quote]

OK, that Greenland thing is scary…
Someone’s gonna get more K2 and Mg…
ugh… I’ve gotta eat more veggies…sheesh…
[/quote]

nutritional science is riddled with that sort of thing. supplementation hasn’t had a very good track record. unless there is a pathology i don’t think the risk that something will go wrong out weights the theoretical benefit. your body is a much better biochemist than you are, let it do its job.
and veggies really aren’t that bad once you learn to cook them and get use to the taste of non bland foods lol

19

I’d deadlift 6x /week rather than make my own salads/stews…
eh… guess I have to suck it up and start making salads… 700 lbs of steel won’t lift themselves…

Anyway, Boldar, thank you very much.