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1101

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

It’s a result of my analysis of his skill set.

How many relatively slow non-athletic PGs turn into above average PGs? Are they the exception or the rule?

[/quote]

Lin is non-athletic? Do you even know how much athleticism is required for the body control he displays while crashing the lane? Obviously he’s not lebron, but he’s clearly NOT non-athletic.

You say a lot of crazy shit. It sounds like you subjectively reach a conclusion and then look for ways to support it instead of looking at something objectively and drawing a conclusion based on the observation. [/quote]

I’m speaking in relative terms.

Compare him to any of the top 5 even top 10 starting PGs and almost all of them if not all will be much more athletic than him.

1102

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

You say a lot of crazy shit. It sounds like you subjectively reach a conclusion and then look for ways to support it instead of looking at something objectively and drawing a conclusion based on the observation. [/quote]

This is my favourite part. Along with his skill set, I am skeptical because of the probabilities.

It would greatly benefit you if you had at least a working knowledge of statistics and probabilities.

1103

I’m speaking more to raj than you BG…if you saw him extensively as I have I believe you may think differently. the way ny’s offense just stops to perform when he isn’t playing shows how good he has played.
Once again I am not saying he is going to be all world…I am saying I think you guys are undervaluing his play because of the relatively small game set…however I have watched everygame and I am very optimistic

1104

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I’m speaking more to raj than you BG…if you saw him extensively as I have I believe you may think differently. the way ny’s offense just stops to perform when he isn’t playing shows how good he has played.
Once again I am not saying he is going to be all world…I am saying I think you guys are undervaluing his play because of the relatively small game set…however I have watched everygame and I am very optimistic[/quote]

Where do you see him ultimately over his career?

Would you peg him in the top 15 of PG consistently throughout his career?

1105

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

I’m not champing at the bit at all. I haven’t watched any extended play so I’m reserving my opinion. I just know that he’s on his third team, was undrafted, bounced around the D-league and is in the midst of a small stretch of games in a truncated-crazy-scheduled season and playing without the team’s two studs.

He can obviously play; but that was decided when he made a roster. The question is, whether the talent evaluators that didn’t draft him, planted him at the end of the bench and sent him to the d-league are right and this is an aberration, or if he’s real.

I have faith in the evaluators. You don’t get sent to the D-league for no reason. If he turns out to be a full time starter over the course of the next few seasons, it will be a remarkable story.

My guess is that he’ll be on a roster, but not a starting PG. My guess is that a healthy Baron David may displace him. [/quote]

Are these the same evaluators that traded Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac, passed on Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Dirk Nowitzki and the million superstars in history that weren’t picked at the top of the draft, traded for nothing or just over looked?

1106

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

It’s a result of my analysis of his skill set.

How many relatively slow non-athletic PGs turn into above average PGs? Are they the exception or the rule?

[/quote]

Lin is non-athletic? Do you even know how much athleticism is required for the body control he displays while crashing the lane? Obviously he’s not lebron, but he’s clearly NOT non-athletic.

You say a lot of crazy shit. It sounds like you subjectively reach a conclusion and then look for ways to support it instead of looking at something objectively and drawing a conclusion based on the observation. [/quote]

I’m speaking in relative terms.

Compare him to any of the top 5 even top 10 starting PGs and almost all of them if not all will be much more athletic than him.

[/quote]

Lin is about the same or more athletic than Steve Nash, John Stockton and Jason Kidd.

1107

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

It’s a result of my analysis of his skill set.

How many relatively slow non-athletic PGs turn into above average PGs? Are they the exception or the rule?

[/quote]

Lin is non-athletic? Do you even know how much athleticism is required for the body control he displays while crashing the lane? Obviously he’s not lebron, but he’s clearly NOT non-athletic.

You say a lot of crazy shit. It sounds like you subjectively reach a conclusion and then look for ways to support it instead of looking at something objectively and drawing a conclusion based on the observation. [/quote]

I’m speaking in relative terms.

Compare him to any of the top 5 even top 10 starting PGs and almost all of them if not all will be much more athletic than him.

[/quote]

Lin is about the same or more athletic than Steve Nash, John Stockton and Jason Kidd.[/quote]

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are 37 and 38 and both HOFers.

Even with John Stockton he’s not the rule he’s the exception to the rule. Make a list of the top 20 PGs and tell me where you would slot in terms of athleticism.

1108

Lets see I’m not going to rank them in any particular order just consider them above average:

Chris Paul

Russell Westbrook

Deron Williams

Tyreke Evans

Derrick Rose

John Wall

Monta Ellis

Jrue Holliday

Rajon Rondo

Mike Conley

Brandon Jennings

Tony Parker

Would rank Lin ahead of any of these PGs in terms of athleticism?

1109

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

I’m not champing at the bit at all. I haven’t watched any extended play so I’m reserving my opinion. I just know that he’s on his third team, was undrafted, bounced around the D-league and is in the midst of a small stretch of games in a truncated-crazy-scheduled season and playing without the team’s two studs.

He can obviously play; but that was decided when he made a roster. The question is, whether the talent evaluators that didn’t draft him, planted him at the end of the bench and sent him to the d-league are right and this is an aberration, or if he’s real.

I have faith in the evaluators. You don’t get sent to the D-league for no reason. If he turns out to be a full time starter over the course of the next few seasons, it will be a remarkable story.

My guess is that he’ll be on a roster, but not a starting PG. My guess is that a healthy Baron David may displace him. [/quote]

Are these the same evaluators that traded Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac, passed on Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Dirk Nowitzki and the million superstars in history that weren’t picked at the top of the draft, traded for nothing or just over looked?[/quote]

Poor argument.

Lin wasn’t merely “passed” upon in the draft. He’s on his 3rd team and he’s a d-league vet. HUGE difference.

And, the draft is not a science. Still does not apply to Lin.

So yes, I’ll trust the numerous scouts, assistants and coaches that traded Lin, and sent him to the D-league over a short game stint of good performance under unusual circumstances.

Everyone in the league can play. I know this but maybe it’s why you’re so enamored with this short stint of decent performance - I say “decent” b/c it’s not “insanity” of even “linsanity” when you factor in the turnovers.

If he can maintain the production, drastically cut down the turnovers and continue to produce throughout next season, I’ll be a believer.

Right now though, if I were a betting man (and I am), I’d say even money he doesn’t finish THIS season as the starting PG.

1110

From what he has shown me yes…but that’s kind of arbitrary. I see him as a good starting point guard for a perrenial winning playoff team. He absolutely is not the norm but There are exceptions to the rule that happen and I hope and believe he is the exception

1111

I’ll take that action…remember why his turnovers are so High as well.

1112

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

It’s a result of my analysis of his skill set.

How many relatively slow non-athletic PGs turn into above average PGs? Are they the exception or the rule?

[/quote]

Lin is non-athletic? Do you even know how much athleticism is required for the body control he displays while crashing the lane? Obviously he’s not lebron, but he’s clearly NOT non-athletic.

You say a lot of crazy shit. It sounds like you subjectively reach a conclusion and then look for ways to support it instead of looking at something objectively and drawing a conclusion based on the observation. [/quote]

I’m speaking in relative terms.

Compare him to any of the top 5 even top 10 starting PGs and almost all of them if not all will be much more athletic than him.

[/quote]

Lin is about the same or more athletic than Steve Nash, John Stockton and Jason Kidd.[/quote]

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd are 37 and 38 and both HOFers.

Even with John Stockton he’s not the rule he’s the exception to the rule. Make a list of the top 20 PGs and tell me where you would slot in terms of athleticism.

[/quote]

Jason Kidd was actually more athletic than you may think. He just adopted a prototypical PG style and didn’t always display the dramatic that these young guys are so enamored with. He made the easy passes. He took the open shots. He penetrated and dished (not 3 dribbles too late). etc etc etc.

1113

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I’ll take that action…remember why his turnovers are so High as well.[/quote]

why?

1114

Yeah but in their prime (Kidd, Nash) you can’t say they were more athletic than Jeremy Lin.

Stockton, Chauncey Billups, Mark Price, Bob Cousy.

You’re starting to sound like scj with your ‘game of probabilities’ line of thinking.

1115

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
From what he has shown me yes…but that’s kind of arbitrary. I see him as a good starting point guard for a perrenial winning playoff team. He absolutely is not the norm but There are exceptions to the rule that happen and I hope and believe he is the exception[/quote]

And that is fine.

But I have explained my position very clearly as to why I’m not sold on the level of talent. I don’t think it’s fair to call me a hater.

Heck, BG doesn’t even think he’ll finish the season as the starting PG. I at least think that!

1116

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Lets see I’m not going to rank them in any particular order just consider them above average:

Chris Paul

Russell Westbrook

Deron Williams

Tyreke Evans

Derrick Rose

John Wall

Monta Ellis

Jrue Holliday

Rajon Rondo

Mike Conley

Brandon Jennings

Tony Parker

Would rank Lin ahead of any of these PGs in terms of athleticism?[/quote]

No but there are guys on that list that I may take lin over…some of those guys you mentioned put up gaudy stats for mediocre teams Jennings and Ellis are 2 players that put up good stats for perrenial losers

How about chauncey billups he wasn’t super athletic or fast was bounced around a shit ton of places and now can be considered a borderline hall of famer

1117

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Lets see I’m not going to rank them in any particular order just consider them above average:

Chris Paul

Russell Westbrook

Deron Williams

Tyreke Evans

Derrick Rose

John Wall

Monta Ellis

Jrue Holliday

Rajon Rondo

Mike Conley

Brandon Jennings

Tony Parker

Would rank Lin ahead of any of these PGs in terms of athleticism?[/quote]

No but there are guys on that list that I may take lin over…some of those guys you mentioned put up gaudy stats for mediocre teams Jennings and Ellis are 2 players that put up good stats for perrenial losers

How about chauncey billups he wasn’t super athletic or fast was bounced around a shit ton of places and now can be considered a borderline hall of famer
[/quote]

Yeah man it’s possible, I would just deem it unlikely.

Personally, I wouldn’t take Lin over any of those players based on a 9 game stretch.

1118

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Yeah but in their prime (Kidd, Nash) you can’t say they were more athletic than Jeremy Lin.

Stockton, Chauncey Billups, Mark Price, Bob Cousy.

You’re starting to sound like scj with your ‘game of probabilities’ line of thinking. [/quote]

Kidd was more athletic than Lin.

It’s not a ‘game of probabilities’ - probabilities are an accurate reflection of reality.

1119

I agree its still a wait and see but if at the end of the year lin continues to put up good numbers and the knicks continue to win there are a few guys on that list I would take lin over

I will wait till the end of the year to make a final decision as ur absolutely right 9 games is too little to tell either way. BG avi bet on lin finishing out as the starter till the end of the year?

1120

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Hold up Im being a realist as well, I dont think he will be a superstar pg, but Raj isnt being a hater when he says that Lin is only going to be a backup please…what has he shown you where he is going to be a backup??? I dont where that Raj comment makes sense. Lin played great today, he is getting trapped and pressured ALL the time.

No on here is saying that Lin is saying Lin is going to be the next Derrick Rose, all IM saying is that the possibility of him becoming a very good starting PG is very possible.

With you “realists” the only games that will count are the ones where he will lose. When they play the Heat I would venture to guess the Knicks will lose, and all the “realists” you mentioned will be chomping at the bit to shit on him. How come this game doesent count? Dallas isnt a good defensive team, havent they been streaking as well?

Like I said earlier espescially with Raj he isnt a realist he is a pessimist when it comes to Lin and alot of it has to do with his hate of NY teams (yankees and knicks) so he is not being realistic.[/quote]

I’m not champing at the bit at all. I haven’t watched any extended play so I’m reserving my opinion. I just know that he’s on his third team, was undrafted, bounced around the D-league and is in the midst of a small stretch of games in a truncated-crazy-scheduled season and playing without the team’s two studs.

He can obviously play; but that was decided when he made a roster. The question is, whether the talent evaluators that didn’t draft him, planted him at the end of the bench and sent him to the d-league are right and this is an aberration, or if he’s real.

I have faith in the evaluators. You don’t get sent to the D-league for no reason. If he turns out to be a full time starter over the course of the next few seasons, it will be a remarkable story.

My guess is that he’ll be on a roster, but not a starting PG. My guess is that a healthy Baron David may displace him. [/quote]

Are these the same evaluators that traded Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac, passed on Manu Ginobli, Tony Parker, Dirk Nowitzki and the million superstars in history that weren’t picked at the top of the draft, traded for nothing or just over looked?[/quote]

Poor argument.

Lin wasn’t merely “passed” upon in the draft. He’s on his 3rd team and he’s a d-league vet. HUGE difference.

And, the draft is not a science. Still does not apply to Lin.

So yes, I’ll trust the numerous scouts, assistants and coaches that traded Lin, and sent him to the D-league over a short game stint of good performance under unusual circumstances.

Everyone in the league can play. I know this but maybe it’s why you’re so enamored with this short stint of decent performance - I say “decent” b/c it’s not “insanity” of even “linsanity” when you factor in the turnovers.

If he can maintain the production, drastically cut down the turnovers and continue to produce throughout next season, I’ll be a believer.

Right now though, if I were a betting man (and I am), I’d say even money he doesn’t finish THIS season as the starting PG.
[/quote]

How is it a poor argument? If scouts and evaluators were as credible as you say they are then we wouldn’t have those Ginobli’s, Parker’s and Nowitzki’s being over-looked would we?

It’s not like Lin has been bouncing around the DLeague for multiple years. I don’t know if “DLeague vet” is an accurate term seeing as how he mainly played there in and out during his season with the Warriors. This is his SECOND year playing pro-ball. He played for the Warriors last year and was hesitantly cut from the team in the severely shortening training camp to free salary space (he was a PG in a team with Stephen Curry and Monta Ellis. He wasn’t going to shine there no matter what). He was then cut from the Rocket’s because they needed room to sign Samuel Dalembert.

Mark Cuban just said how the Mavericks offered Lin a contract after seeing him at their mini-camp but he wanted to play closer to where he grew up (which is why he signed with the Warriors).

You can also look at the Spurs squad. There’s a dude that plays for them called Gary Neal. The dude has bounced around the globe playing for multiple leagues over numerous years because NBA teams didn’t want him. He has been a god send for the Spurs and straight-out been balling for the period he’s been playing for them, especially in clutch situations (like last night where he torched the Clippers).