NBA Lockout

Off Topic
721

[quote]LTKO wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]LTKO wrote:
i think skip’s and stephen a smith’s analysis on nba stuff are both spot on, hilarious and enlightening.

I think they’re comments are absolutely accurate.

A few other observations:

Can you imagine if a white broadcaster called LBJ “boy”??? It would be the end of the fucking world as we know it and you couldn’t get rid of Al Sharpton for the next year until some 15 year old New Yorker falsely claimed rape against the KKK.

I think they make a great point about “talent” v. “best player” and it was really where I was at when we originally started debating Kobe. LBJ is unquestionably the most talented guy in the game, and for that matter, he may very well be more “talented” than even MJ. “Best player” and all this other crap is a big beauty contest anyway, with all the variables you can throw at it. That’s why for me, as a former player, “best player” is who I want on my team in that one and done game and under that analysis, a healthy Kobe is unquestionably the better player than LBJ. In fact, I still wouldn’t take anyone else in the league at his position.[/quote]

agree with the ‘talent’ vs ‘best player’ statement too. and the fact that lebron has no heart or killer instinct. same with dwight, he needs to stop joking around and just get that kobe instinct.
[/quote]

I have learned that you cannot acquire or “learn” that instinct. You either have it or not.

722

^^^fighters are born, not made. James and Howard are paper tigers and there’s nothing they can do to change that. They may both get a ring(s), but it’ll be as 2nd bananas.

723

Personally, I think ‘Instinct’ is an overrated and overused word in basketball. People said Dirk had no instinct and because you obviously can’t acquire ‘instinct’ [/sarcasm] Dirk would never be an elite player. Well, Dirk just came off one of the best and most clutch playoff performances of all-time.

Last time I checked basketball is a team sport, you have 4 other players on the court with you. Just make a bucket when it’s your turn. Maybe ‘instinct’ is better applied to non-team sports like tennis where you need certain inherent attributes to succeed and win.

Lebron is the most criticised player in the game because he hasn’t won a championship yet. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with that and when he finally wins one all the attacks on his game will disappear.

724

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^fighters are born, not made. James and Howard are paper tigers and there’s nothing they can do to change that. They may both get a ring(s), but it’ll be as 2nd bananas.[/quote]

Yeah and don’t forget Dirk Nowitzki! Oh wait…

This point originally brought up by Gettnitdone but he’s on ignore by WF sooo…

725

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Personally, I think ‘Instinct’ is an overrated and overused word in basketball. People said Dirk had no instinct and because you obviously can’t acquire ‘instinct’ [/sarcasm] Dirk would never be an elite player. Well, Dirk just came off one of the best and most clutch playoff performances of all-time.

Last time I checked basketball is a team sport, you have 4 other players on the court with you. Just make a bucket when it’s your turn. Maybe ‘instinct’ is better applied to non-team sports like tennis where you need certain inherent attributes to succeed and win.

Lebron is the most criticised player in the game because he hasn’t won a championship yet. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with that and when he finally wins one all the attacks on his game will disappear.

[/quote]

stephen a smith brought up a point that i completely agree on. ill fix your statement a little bit, “lebron is the most criticised player in the game because he hasn’t won a championship yet he acts like he’s the the best player and celebrates as if he has already won” hope you understand what i mean.

He’s criticised so much because he did alot of unnecessary stuff that put him in the spotlight (aka the decision). if he just stayed humble, thanked cleveland for their support over the years and just leave for miami graciously, he probably wouldnt get as much heat as he’s getting now. just bad decisions perhaps due to immaturity. hopefully he has learned some humility from the experience and that’s when i think the criticism will stop.

726

on another note, i still don’t get how kevin durant is scoring on all the bigger and stronger people in the nba. he’s built like a twig.

727

[quote]LTKO wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Personally, I think ‘Instinct’ is an overrated and overused word in basketball. People said Dirk had no instinct and because you obviously can’t acquire ‘instinct’ [/sarcasm] Dirk would never be an elite player. Well, Dirk just came off one of the best and most clutch playoff performances of all-time.

Last time I checked basketball is a team sport, you have 4 other players on the court with you. Just make a bucket when it’s your turn. Maybe ‘instinct’ is better applied to non-team sports like tennis where you need certain inherent attributes to succeed and win.

Lebron is the most criticised player in the game because he hasn’t won a championship yet. I’m pretty sure everyone agrees with that and when he finally wins one all the attacks on his game will disappear.

[/quote]

stephen a smith brought up a point that i completely agree on. ill fix your statement a little bit, “lebron is the most criticised player in the game because he hasn’t won a championship yet he acts like he’s the the best player and celebrates as if he has already won” hope you understand what i mean.

He’s criticised so much because he did alot of unnecessary stuff that put him in the spotlight (aka the decision). if he just stayed humble, thanked cleveland for their support over the years and just leave for miami graciously, he probably wouldnt get as much heat as he’s getting now. just bad decisions perhaps due to immaturity. hopefully he has learned some humility from the experience and that’s when i think the criticism will stop.

[/quote]

I’m talking about his game of the court. The outside stuff is nonsense and totally attributable to him getting some of the worst PR advice out of any professional athlete. For example, people say he ‘betrayed’ the Cavaliers. That is complete BS, he led the Cavs to multiple best-record seasons and even a Finals appearance as the only legitimate player on the team. Look at the Lakers now. People are saying Kobe needs ‘help’. LeBron succeeded with Mo Williams as the second best player. Cavs fans should have saluted him goodbye no matter how he left.

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[quote]LTKO wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Good lord, Smith and Bayless have to be 2 of the most irritating guys on the planet. Couldn’t watch more than a minute of either video.[/quote]

that’s why i said they were funny. they squabble like two old women. But imo, what they speak the truth. they don’t hold back for fear of public backlash or whatever, and says what needs to be said. (:
[/quote]

Yeah they do say whatever they want. They are just wrong like 65% of the time, or at least Skip is.

729

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^fighters are born, not made. James and Howard are paper tigers and there’s nothing they can do to change that. They may both get a ring(s), but it’ll be as 2nd bananas.[/quote]

A lot of people said the same about Magic Johnson after his epic awful series against BOS (obviously I don’t remember myself, I have just read about it and seen a couple of the old games on NBATV or ESPN Classic or somewhere).

A lot of people said the same thing about Dirk, more recently.

I’m not defending LBJ’s collapse in last year’s playoffs, I’m just saying it’s too early to judge.

Dwight’s problems are more game-related and definable than LBJ’s. A) He needs someone to pass him the ball in his spot to be effective, since he’s a C, and that pass itself is hard to do in crunch time. B) He is a bad enough foul shooter that if he gets the ball in the post in a tight game, he’ll just be fouled anyway and not given a chance to make a play.

730

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^fighters are born, not made. James and Howard are paper tigers and there’s nothing they can do to change that. They may both get a ring(s), but it’ll be as 2nd bananas.[/quote]

A lot of people said the same about Magic Johnson after his epic awful series against BOS (obviously I don’t remember myself, I have just read about it and seen a couple of the old games on NBATV or ESPN Classic or somewhere).

A lot of people said the same thing about Dirk, more recently.

I’m not defending LBJ’s collapse in last year’s playoffs, I’m just saying it’s too early to judge.

Dwight’s problems are more game-related and definable than LBJ’s. A) He needs someone to pass him the ball in his spot to be effective, since he’s a C, and that pass itself is hard to do in crunch time. B) He is a bad enough foul shooter that if he gets the ball in the post in a tight game, he’ll just be fouled anyway and not given a chance to make a play.[/quote]

First, Magic was never “the man”. Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, etc… USUALLY took the big shots. Magic hit his share, but he was more often than not the set up man.

Second, Nowitzki needed the right pieces around him to do what he did last year. He’d had good seasons obviously, but before last year they didn’t have what they needed to make it. They got it, everything played out in their favor, they win. It’s not happening again for 'em. The point is though that HE was always the first option. No questions.

3rd, James has been in the league 9 years now and his own teammates suggest that Wade be their closer. That’s really all anyone here needs to know. For whatever he is or isn’t, he IS NOT a killer. He point blank doesn’t have the mental makeup for it. In the biggest moments, he looks to someone else instead of stepping up. Nothing wrong with that, but he’s no fighter, and he’ll never be more than the 2nd best player on a championship team. Wade is their closer.

731

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
3rd, James has been in the league 9 years now and his own teammates suggest that Wade be their closer. That’s really all anyone here needs to know. For whatever he is or isn’t, he IS NOT a killer. He point blank doesn’t have the mental makeup for it. In the biggest moments, he looks to someone else instead of stepping up. Nothing wrong with that, but he’s no fighter, and he’ll never be more than the 2nd best player on a championship team. Wade is their closer.
[/quote]

I just don’t understand how he had those 25straight pts against the Pistons in 4Q/OT in that ECF… he has had other moments like that… it’s like each game he flips a coin whether he’s going to be a bulldog or a puppy in the last 2 minutes. I can’t figure him out and have no clue what to expect on any given night.

All that about Nowitzki is definitely true BUT a lot of people said he was soft and a choke artist - especially after blowing the 3-1 lead against MIA in 2006. IMO that label is applied too hastily in a lot of cases, Dirk being the best example.

I’ll admit it would be an upset/surprise to see LBJ take over the last 3 minutes of a Finals game, but I have seen so many bizarre things from him that are usually mutually exclusive attributes that it wouldn’t be THAT hard to believe. Last year was pretty damning though.

As a fan of the sport it just irritates me he isn’t reaching his potential, even though 99.999% of NBA players would kill to possess his current skill set.

732

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Second, Nowitzki needed the right pieces around him to do what he did last year. He’d had good seasons obviously, but before last year they didn’t have what they needed to make it. They got it, everything played out in their favor, they win. It’s not happening again for 'em. The point is though that HE was always the first option. No questions.[/quote]

Which superstar won a championship without the right pieces around him?

How do you know James won’t be the closer at some point in the future when and if he wins a championship? He’s ONLY 27.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
3rd, James has been in the league 9 years now and his own teammates suggest that Wade be their closer. That’s really all anyone here needs to know. For whatever he is or isn’t, he IS NOT a killer. He point blank doesn’t have the mental makeup for it. In the biggest moments, he looks to someone else instead of stepping up. Nothing wrong with that, but he’s no fighter, and he’ll never be more than the 2nd best player on a championship team. Wade is their closer.
[/quote]

Most of this you would’ve said about Nowitzki prior to last year.

Regardless of of what Bosh said, You don’t have crystal ball to say he won’t be their closer in the future. With Wade’s injury history and the fact he’s approaching his 30’s, Wade’s body may force him to take a supportive role.

Last year everyone said Lebron would play second fiddle to Wade… yet Lebron was the main guy during the season up to the conference finals.

Lets be honest, he has closed before, just not in the Finals. It remains to be seen if he will forever be a second banana.

Det vs Cle 2007 series

733

You don’t like Lebron or Howard, so you can’t ever give them any credit. Almost never.

Last year you said Miami’s only chance to win a championship during Lebron’s tenure was last year because the Bulls will be too good.

This year you said Howard won his defensive POY awards on reputation rather than merit.

These two statements to me really show you just don’t like them and aren’t analyzing them with complete objecivity. They are both blatantly false.

734

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
3rd, James has been in the league 9 years now and his own teammates suggest that Wade be their closer. That’s really all anyone here needs to know. For whatever he is or isn’t, he IS NOT a killer. He point blank doesn’t have the mental makeup for it. In the biggest moments, he looks to someone else instead of stepping up. Nothing wrong with that, but he’s no fighter, and he’ll never be more than the 2nd best player on a championship team. Wade is their closer.
[/quote]

I just don’t understand how he had those 25straight pts against the Pistons in 4Q/OT in that ECF… he has had other moments like that… it’s like each game he flips a coin whether he’s going to be a bulldog or a puppy in the last 2 minutes. I can’t figure him out and have no clue what to expect on any given night.

All that about Nowitzki is definitely true BUT a lot of people said he was soft and a choke artist - especially after blowing the 3-1 lead against MIA in 2006. IMO that label is applied too hastily in a lot of cases, Dirk being the best example.

I’ll admit it would be an upset/surprise to see LBJ take over the last 3 minutes of a Finals game, but I have seen so many bizarre things from him that are usually mutually exclusive attributes that it wouldn’t be THAT hard to believe. Last year was pretty damning though.

As a fan of the sport it just irritates me he isn’t reaching his potential, even though 99.999% of NBA players would kill to possess his current skill set.[/quote]

A lot of dudes at the top can get into ridiculous zones. Like when McGrady had 4 or 5 3’s in like 90 seconds against the Spurs several years ago to win a game that looked so far gone fans had already left the arena. There are several examples of this kind of thing.

Also, I’ll believe til the day I for that the NBA fixed the 2006 finals. That series was stolen from Dallas.

James can obviously do some ridiculous things out there, but so can several guys. I think we’ve seen his ceiling to be honest with you. He’ll never be more than what he is.

735

So the latest rumour going around is the Magic are considering trading Howard to the Knicks for Amare and Chandler.

736

[quote]therajraj wrote:
So the latest rumour going around is the Magic are considering trading Howard to the Knicks for Amare and Chandler.

[/quote]

Damn. How valid is it?

737

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Second, Nowitzki needed the right pieces around him to do what he did last year. He’d had good seasons obviously, but before last year they didn’t have what they needed to make it. They got it, everything played out in their favor, they win. It’s not happening again for 'em. The point is though that HE was always the first option. No questions.[/quote]

Which superstar won a championship without the right pieces around him?

How do you know James won’t be the closer at some point in the future when and if he wins a championship? He’s ONLY 27.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
3rd, James has been in the league 9 years now and his own teammates suggest that Wade be their closer. That’s really all anyone here needs to know. For whatever he is or isn’t, he IS NOT a killer. He point blank doesn’t have the mental makeup for it. In the biggest moments, he looks to someone else instead of stepping up. Nothing wrong with that, but he’s no fighter, and he’ll never be more than the 2nd best player on a championship team. Wade is their closer.
[/quote]

Most of this you would’ve said about Nowitzki prior to last year.

Regardless of of what Bosh said, You don’t have crystal ball to say he won’t be their closer in the future. With Wade’s injury history and the fact he’s approaching his 30’s, Wade’s body may force him to take a supportive role.

Last year everyone said Lebron would play second fiddle to Wade… yet Lebron was the main guy during the season up to the conference finals.

Lets be honest, he has closed before, just not in the Finals. It remains to be seen if he will forever be a second banana.

Det vs Cle 2007 series

Actually, I’ve never said that about Nowitzki. And, of course you need the right pieces around you to win. Somehow my point flew over your head. Nowitzki was always the main man. The Mavs know where their bread gets buttered. the Heat seem to know that for all James talent, he’s not gonna get it done for 'em when it counts. To a man they put their faith in Wade. You act like I haven’t seen that series or don’t watch the games. James is a once in a generation talent. I admit it. He’s also a spoiled baby with an unfounded sense of entitlement. I do think he’ll probably get a ring one day. He might even have the best overall numbers of anyone out there. But, he’s proven that on the biggest stage, under the brightest lights, he wilts. When it’s time to dig down, Wade’s their guy. Everyone on their team knows it, so it’s probably time to come to grips with it Raj.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
You don’t like Lebron or Howard, so you can’t ever give them any credit. Almost never.

Last year you said Miami’s only chance to win a championship during Lebron’s tenure was last year because the Bulls will be too good.

This year you said Howard won his defensive POY awards on reputation rather than merit.

These two statements to me really show you just don’t like them and aren’t analyzing them with complete objecivity. They are both blatantly false.

[/quote]

I said if the Bulls add a solid 2 they’ll be too good. Your man crush on these 2 dudes blinds you to what I’m saying so you think I’m just hating without actually recognizing the point I’m making.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Actually, I’ve never said that about Nowitzki. And, of course you need the right pieces around you to win. Somehow my point flew over your head. Nowitzki was always the main man. The Mavs know where their bread gets buttered. the Heat seem to know that for all James talent, he’s not gonna get it done for 'em when it counts. To a man they put their faith in Wade. You act like I haven’t seen that series or don’t watch the games. James is a once in a generation talent. I admit it. He’s also a spoiled baby with an unfounded sense of entitlement. I do think he’ll probably get a ring one day. He might even have the best overall numbers of anyone out there. But, he’s proven that on the biggest stage, under the brightest lights, he wilts. When it’s time to dig down, Wade’s their guy. Everyone on their team knows it, so it’s probably time to come to grips with it Raj.

[/quote]

Maybe you didn’t say it, but the general consensus around Nowitizki pre 2011 was very similar to what you just said of Lebron.

I understand the criticism that he wilts on the big stage and I agree to this point. What I’m saying is, to claim he will be a second banana his whole career at 27 is too early.

There’s a realistic possibility he will figure it out between now and at the end of his career. Maybe he won’t, but it’s very early to say he will always be a 2nd banana.

740

Yeah LeBron will never be clutch…EVER. He will ALWAYS be the second best player on a championship team. He will NEVER shine under the spotlight…

All it takes is 1 second and 1 shot to reverse all the bad perceptions about the guy.