Mr randman - i found an article that somewhat explains the non-randman perspective on the Miami situation 
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
[quote]red04 wrote:
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
LarryDavid and therajraj - news for you: TOR s/t with PHX Turkoglu for Barbosa
Additional news for PHX: completes s/t with ATL for Josh Childress. We welcome the fro back to the US.[/quote]
I dunno that Hedo was the big PHX needed to plug the Amare gap. They could be very deficient at rebounding this upcoming season.[/quote]
Agreed. I think Hedo wanted out of TOR really bad, hence it seems like he forced the trade. Plus swapping him for Barbosa almost seems like for like, since they are both deep threats (personally I would rather keep Barbosa).[/quote]
Thanks for the heads up, tmoney1.
About Raj’s point, the Suns don’t need anyone to replace Amare. They got him back in a sign and trade with the Knicks. Weird, I know. Also, I think they’re slowly going to give his role to Hakim Warrik, who as far as I know is a less injury prone and equally talented player who will thrive in Phoenix’s offense. He was also a lot cheaper. Look for them to unload Amare again as soon as that transition happens, however long that takes.
Hedo had a bad year in TO, and is in his 30s, but he did step up in the playoff his last year in Orlando, and he’s still a match up nightmare. I wonder if the Suns did it with a series with the Lakers in mind. When you get really close to a title, like conference finals, you have to imagine teams focus less on the bigger picture [since they’re kind of set as far as that goes] and more on match ups with teams they’ll likely face in the playoffs.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
In other news John Wall, the sensational freshman, scored 24 points in his Summer League debut.
I was already crowning this dude “the man” his second game in a Kentucky uniform! [/quote]
Yeah he looked good. Watched part of the game, this kid is gonna be good.
He had 8 dimes along with 8 TOs, but it’s expected.
After the game, the NBA asked him to stay for 15 mins to give autographs; he stayed for over an hour to make sure everybody got one. Respect[/quote]
That the kind of dude you just have to root for. Looks like he’ll do well and I’m happy about that.
Bosh is about to be either the most overrated or underrated player in the league. It really depends on whether people look at Miami’s Big 3 and think Bosh is on the same level as the first two, or whether they look at Bosh as the third wheel.
[quote]lavi wrote:
Mr randman - i found an article that somewhat explains the non-randman perspective on the Miami situation
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=lebronissue-100711[/quote]
This article is almost all about tampering. I haven’t been making an issue out of that whatsoever. The only place where J.D. Adande gets it really wrong is at the end where he says Pau Gasol comes to help Kobe win championships. Pau is a good #2. Lebron is not a #1 and never will be. He sold out and became the Arod of basketball and you know it. So this article doesn’t say shit about what my and just about every other sports writer and fan’s contention is that LeLoser can’t lead a team to a championship and will never be on of the all time greats.
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Bosh is about to be either the most overrated or underrated player in the league. It really depends on whether people look at Miami’s Big 3 and think Bosh is on the same level as the first two, or whether they look at Bosh as the third wheel.[/quote]
Good point. Somehow Bosh got swept up in this superstar discussion. I was waffling whether to even trade Bynum for him when I thought the Lakers had a chance. I don’t know how this happened. It’s kinda weird. He’s also getting paid the same dollars as the other two. Bosh is just rolling up a dube right now and thinking to himself “hell yeah”.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Bosh is about to be either the most overrated or underrated player in the league. It really depends on whether people look at Miami’s Big 3 and think Bosh is on the same level as the first two, or whether they look at Bosh as the third wheel.[/quote]
Good point. Somehow Bosh got swept up in this superstar discussion. I was waffling whether to even trade Bynum for him when I thought the Lakers had a chance. I don’t know how this happened. It’s kinda weird. He’s also getting paid the same dollars as the other two. Bosh is just rolling up a dube right now and thinking to himself “hell yeah”.[/quote]
LOL
And btw, Bosh and LeBron are actually gonna get paid more than Wade. So yeah, it’s even worse than you thought.
[quote]lavi wrote:
Mr randman - i found an article that somewhat explains the non-randman perspective on the Miami situation
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=lebronissue-100711[/quote]
BTW I’m not Rand, but if I could…
It’s not that the “collusion” or whatever was mean or evil or anything. No, mean was the one hour television special about leaving his home state’s team. And if he really had this all planned, then making 5 teams wait and subsequently not do as well as they could as far as assembling a team -and a lot of these teams have less than 5 players signed, so it’s a big deal- was also evil as hell.
The collusion on the other hand, was lame, and disappointing for a guy who could have been GOAT. It wasn’t selfish. Hell, you could argue it was selfless and a true sign of being a team player, sacrificing the glory, etc. But there’s a certain selfishness all great players have, where it’s not just all about winning. It’s about being the best individual player as well. You can’t just win. You have to always be in the discussion between fans about who the best player is.
LeBron was most people’s pick for best player in the world, and he was still getting better. Sharing the ball with Wade and Bosh is going to diminish his importance on his own team, and make it almost impossible for him to be in the running for best in the world. He’s no longer a safe bet to retire with the most MVPs. Look at Boston, they’re a great team with no MVP candidates. If the Heat win titles, he may not even get Finals MVPs. How can he be one of the best ever now?
This is worse than A-Rod. A-Rod doesn’t have to share at-bats, LeBron will have to share the ball and shot attempts. And NYY>>>Miami Heat as far as exposure/respect goes. He left Cleveland for a SMALLER market, not many have touched on this. This was either a really stupid or a really bitchmade decision.
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
The collusion on the other hand, was lame, and disappointing for a guy who could have been GOAT. It wasn’t selfish. Hell, you could argue it was selfless and a true sign of being a team player, sacrificing the glory, etc. But there’s a certain selfishness all great players have, where it’s not just all about winning. It’s about being the best individual player as well. You can’t just win. You have to always be in the discussion between fans about who the best player is.
LeBron was most people’s pick for best player in the world, and he was still getting better. Sharing the ball with Wade and Bosh is going to diminish his importance on his own team, and make it almost impossible for him to be in the running for best in the world. He’s no longer a safe bet to retire with the most MVPs. Look at Boston, they’re a great team with no MVP candidates. If the Heat win titles, he may not even get Finals MVPs. How can he be one of the best ever now?
This is worse than A-Rod. A-Rod doesn’t have to share at-bats, LeBron will have to share the ball and shot attempts. And NYY>>>Miami Heat as far as exposure/respect goes. He left Cleveland for a SMALLER market, not many have touched on this. This was either a really stupid or a really bitchmade decision.
[/quote]
Larry, you are simply making a radical argument that most of the sports world doesn’t share…Not!!!
That’s what cracks me up here about the people picking apart my same argument saying it doesn’t matter what the majority says. Yes, it fucking does. It’s the majority who crowned Jordan GOAT - majority fans, majority sports writers, Moms who don’t watch basketball know Jordan is the greatest. And yet the people arguing with me on this thread saying it’s “Randman’s opinion” are seriously deluded and are using it as a weak strategy to poke holes in the argument.
The funny thing that a lot of people don’t understand is that Lebron really never did have the fiber to become GOAT. He had the physical fiber but not the mental fiber. It’s not the decision to shadow Wade that makes this true. It’s Lebron’s mentality that was there all along and led to this decision that I and others have been criticizing all along. It’s because of his mentality that he MADE THIS DECISION in the first place.
The top 5 to 10 GOATs in NBA history win multiple championships as the go to guy on their team. It’s not just how many you win, it’s how you win, who you win with, etc. Again, can you ever imagine a scenario where Jordan or Kobe don’t win championships on their own, leave their team, and go to Wade’s team to try and win some. The answer is: they never would.
[quote]lavi wrote:
Mr randman - i found an article that somewhat explains the non-randman perspective on the Miami situation
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=lebronissue-100711[/quote]
One more thing on this. It’s funny that you did find an Adande article. In the last year or so there are two analysts who I’ve pretty much stop listening to because they’ve been consistently off on their predictions, opinions, etc and I’ve lost some respect for. Adande was the first, Legler is the second.
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
The collusion on the other hand, was lame, and disappointing for a guy who could have been GOAT. It wasn’t selfish. Hell, you could argue it was selfless and a true sign of being a team player, sacrificing the glory, etc. But there’s a certain selfishness all great players have, where it’s not just all about winning. It’s about being the best individual player as well. You can’t just win. You have to always be in the discussion between fans about who the best player is.
LeBron was most people’s pick for best player in the world, and he was still getting better. Sharing the ball with Wade and Bosh is going to diminish his importance on his own team, and make it almost impossible for him to be in the running for best in the world. He’s no longer a safe bet to retire with the most MVPs. Look at Boston, they’re a great team with no MVP candidates. If the Heat win titles, he may not even get Finals MVPs. How can he be one of the best ever now?
This is worse than A-Rod. A-Rod doesn’t have to share at-bats, LeBron will have to share the ball and shot attempts. And NYY>>>Miami Heat as far as exposure/respect goes. He left Cleveland for a SMALLER market, not many have touched on this. This was either a really stupid or a really bitchmade decision.
[/quote]
Larry, you are simply making a radical argument that most of the sports world doesn’t share…Not!!!
That’s what cracks me up here about the people picking apart my same argument saying it doesn’t matter what the majority says. Yes, it fucking does. It’s the majority who crowned Jordan GOAT - majority fans, majority sports writers, Moms who don’t watch basketball know Jordan is the greatest. And yet the people arguing with me on this thread saying it’s “Randman’s opinion” are seriously deluded and are using it as a weak strategy to poke holes in the argument.
The funny thing that a lot of people don’t understand is that Lebron really never did have the fiber to become GOAT. He had the physical fiber but not the mental fiber. It’s not the decision to shadow Wade that makes this true. It’s Lebron’s mentality that was there all along and led to this decision that I and others have been criticizing all along. It’s because of his mentality that he MADE THIS DECISION in the first place.
The top 5 to 10 GOATs in NBA history win multiple championships as the go to guy on their team. It’s not just how many you win, it’s how you win, who you win with, etc. Again, can you ever imagine a scenario where Jordan or Kobe don’t win championships on their own, leave their team, and go to Wade’s team to try and win some. The answer is: they never would.[/quote]
Again, you’re saying he should be trying to be GOAT over trying to win. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
I’d rather have an athlete who wants to win over an athlete who wants moms that don’t watch basketball to think he’s great. Why is just wanting win only a good attitude for a veteran player? Obviously it’s extremely early, but Kevin Durant seems to have that attitude and I think it’s working alright for him.
And hey, maybe LeBron is so very Alpha he wanted the “challenge” of becoming GOAT of the already super-starred Heat :P. (But seriously, I think we will also have to agree to diagree on it automatically being Wade’s team because he was there longer and has a ring.)
Again, is Kobe the only GOAT in this country? Why did any of the other superstars agree to be on the Olympic team? Yeah, they won, but they were not GOAT. I guess they’re all pussies?
—I’m sure if they approached Slovenia or some other country and said they wanted to play for their team, they could’ve been given citizenship and been super alpha.
[quote]lavi wrote:
Again, you’re saying he should be trying to be GOAT over trying to win. I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
[/quote]
Lavi, you’re really starting to test my patience of twisting my arguments around. The fact of the matter is that this douche bag called himself king and a lot of Lebron lovers were ready to crown him GOAT. He will never be in that discussion now that has been solidified by his choice.
It’s not about GOAT over trying to win. Jordan didn’t choose GOAT over winning. He had a maniacal focus to win but wouldn’t have sold out and joined Wade in the process. Jordan became GOAT because of how he won, who he won with and he was the indisputable leader of a team that he didn’t quit on and by sheer force of will made those 6 championships happen. Huge difference between Jordan’s MENTAL approach to the game and Lebron’s.
There’s nothing wrong with an athlete just wanting to win. Again, Lebron and his fans set this criticism up with his self proclaimed King Status, wanting to be talked about among the all time greats, and his fans ready to throw GOAT status on him for years. Lebron may very well win now and win a lot but he will never achieve GOAT status because of how he chose to go about winning. Won’t don’t you get here? My point is that there should never be a GOAT discussion and Lebron’s name in the same sentence again. Not that I think it should have even been discussed before this decision because I thought it was ludicrous how much praise the fans heaped on this guy for not accomplishing anything of significance.
Umm…yeah.
You are one of a few that has this opinion. IT IS WADE’s team and he did win a ring as the Alpha Male. Lebron has to rely on another Alpha Male to try and get it done now. Don’t even go down this argument path with me. Jordan is GOAT and Jordan would never do this (along with the other top ten GOATs). That is the measuring stick my friend.
Who the fuck said this? Seriously lavi. You’re starting to get retarded. Let me be clear. GOAT means Greatest of All Time. There is only one GOAT = Jordan. There are others in the pantheon of greatness. Top ten of all time which I believe Kobe is definitely in that arena now. It doesn’t mean there aren’t other great players in the league and alpha males on their team but Kobe and Duncan are the only two players that have established their legacy in top ten discussion. And Kobe isn’t done yet. He has a chance of moving up that stack some more.
[quote]
Why did any of the other superstars agree to be on the Olympic team? Yeah, they won, but they were not GOAT. I guess they’re all pussies?
—I’m sure if they approached Slovenia or some other country and said they wanted to play for their team, they could’ve been given citizenship and been super alpha.[/quote]
Your brought in the Olympics?!? We’re talking about GOAT in basketball, NBA basketball and you bring up the Olympics to make some stupid retarded point. I’m not even going to address this. It is not pertinent to the discussion whatsoever.
For the Olympics argument - yes you caught me, I meant to discuss the whole alpha thing we got into earlier which somewhat relates to GOAT.
Anyway, we’re obviously getting nowhere with each other, and since the argument is now devolving into into insults and annoyance, maybe it’s best we try to move on.
Can the Thunder become a lasting contender, or will their small market-ness hurt them too much?
Will the Heat over the next 5+ years become a revolving door of veteran role players since most decent young players would rather have attention and money elsewhere?
Another thing I have 0 knowledge of is how the draft comes into play here for the Heat? How much do picks get paid?
I gotta be honest, I like the Thunders chance over the Heat as the NBA’s next dominant team. They have defined roles, role players who know their roles, two emerging big men in Ibaka and BJ Mullens, and three straight up ballplayers in Durant, Westbrook and Green. T will tell you that last year or the year before I said that if the Thunder can keep their team together, they can do big things. Their play this past season only solidifies my thoughts. I think it’ll take 2 years before we really see it, but save injuries or someone leaving, watch out.
rapidly…loosing…intrest…in…this…thread…
.greg.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I gotta be honest, I like the Thunders chance over the Heat as the NBA’s next dominant team. They have defined roles, role players who know their roles, two emerging big men in Ibaka and BJ Mullens, and three straight up ballplayers in Durant, Westbrook and Green. T will tell you that last year or the year before I said that if the Thunder can keep their team together, they can do big things. Their play this past season only solidifies my thoughts. I think it’ll take 2 years before we really see it, but save injuries or someone leaving, watch out.[/quote]
I still think if that Portland team can have a string of good health that they will be a force as well. That is a much bigger if for them though seeing that Oden just seems to be falling apart, what a shame that is =/.
There really is a lot of good young talent collected around this league, maybe the next couple years are still extremely top heavy but it shouldn’t be too long before there is a ton of competition again.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I gotta be honest, I like the Thunders chance over the Heat as the NBA’s next dominant team. They have defined roles, role players who know their roles, two emerging big men in Ibaka and BJ Mullens, and three straight up ballplayers in Durant, Westbrook and Green. T will tell you that last year or the year before I said that if the Thunder can keep their team together, they can do big things. Their play this past season only solidifies my thoughts. I think it’ll take 2 years before we really see it, but save injuries or someone leaving, watch out.[/quote]
I hope you’re right. I’d much rather the Lakers eventually cede the thrown to the Thunder than the f’in heat. ;0
I’d rather see ANY team win rather than the Heat.
I’m watching Sports Nation right now and they’re showing these Cleveland fans crying when LeBron announced he was going to Miami… hahahah so awesome.
.greg.
Fisher stays in LA!
Suck on these little Chinese nuuuuuuuuuts miami!
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
rapidly…loosing…intrest…in…this…thread…
.greg.[/quote]
Traitor! Fine then, go back to the Miami Heat thread.
