NBA 2011-2012 Season Thread 2

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101

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I only hope for a competitve game, There is no way Lin is going to be able to check Wade, missing shumpert will hurt alot. Melo gives Lebron fits and for some odd reason that stiff Joel Anthony (I know I know hes in the NBA so hes not a stiff) gives Amare problems. All in all I expect the Heat to win, but I think it will be close.

Oh how can playing for your national team NOT be impressive or a relatively high level of play…you guys are being a bit harsh on Get.

New Zealand, St. Kits, Cameroon while I understand its not the USA its still impressive. Everybody should be able to have their opinions, I dont see why Get is getting flamed so much. Because of the TO comment? [/quote]

Is there proof he played on a National team? Last time I checked pretty sure he said the highest level he played was highschool. Also, he’s never once said anything even remotely intelligent. He actually tried to argue that Brent Barry and Desmond Mason were better dunkers than a young Kobe Bryant. The guy is a fucking retard who has absolutely no redeeming qualities on these boards other than comic relief.

Anyway, I think they put James on Lin at some point and he plays him like he did Rose: sags 5+ feet and forces him to shoot. The problem there is Lin is a set shooter and I’m not sure his release is quick enough to make James pay. But, if he gets up on him Lin will do what he’s been doing: get buckets for himself and others. You could also substitute Wade for James in my example, though Wade wouldn’t give up as much space. I’ll say that if Lin and Stoudamire can run the p’n’r effectively and the game doesn’t turn into mini one-on-ones that the Knicks should win.[/quote]

He can play Lin tighter. Lin is athletic but not Derrick-Rose-athletic.

Side note… anyone watch LBJ capably defend Dwight in the post the other night? This is the same guy who took out D-Rose in last year’s playoffs. It’s just patently ridiculous how good he is, no other player in the league can guard D-Rose and Dwight.

Don’t try and say Josh Smith, if he could defend Dwight they wouldn’t pay Collins to sit on the bench all year until they play ORL in the playoffs and give him 30 minutes.
[/quote]

Of course Rose is quicker, but he bricks wide open 15 footers like it’s his job. Lin doesn’t. But, Rose has a quicker release and elevates. Lin doesn’t. He’s gonna he to sag 'cause Lin has proven he can get to the rack on anybody.

Also, sagging 5ft off of someone then guarding someone with NO MOVES doesn’t make him an elite defender. Howard bricks wide open hook shots from 5 feet. BADLY.

102

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Hate or love the Heat… their transition offense is one of the most exciting things to watch in the NBA.[/quote]

I hate everything about the Heat, but they’re pretty much unstoppable (in the regular season) when they’re run game is clicking.

103

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I only hope for a competitve game, There is no way Lin is going to be able to check Wade, missing shumpert will hurt alot. Melo gives Lebron fits and for some odd reason that stiff Joel Anthony (I know I know hes in the NBA so hes not a stiff) gives Amare problems. All in all I expect the Heat to win, but I think it will be close.

Oh how can playing for your national team NOT be impressive or a relatively high level of play…you guys are being a bit harsh on Get.

New Zealand, St. Kits, Cameroon while I understand its not the USA its still impressive. Everybody should be able to have their opinions, I dont see why Get is getting flamed so much. Because of the TO comment? [/quote]

Is there proof he played on a National team? Last time I checked pretty sure he said the highest level he played was highschool. Also, he’s never once said anything even remotely intelligent. He actually tried to argue that Brent Barry and Desmond Mason were better dunkers than a young Kobe Bryant. The guy is a fucking retard who has absolutely no redeeming qualities on these boards other than comic relief.

Anyway, I think they put James on Lin at some point and he plays him like he did Rose: sags 5+ feet and forces him to shoot. The problem there is Lin is a set shooter and I’m not sure his release is quick enough to make James pay. But, if he gets up on him Lin will do what he’s been doing: get buckets for himself and others. You could also substitute Wade for James in my example, though Wade wouldn’t give up as much space. I’ll say that if Lin and Stoudamire can run the p’n’r effectively and the game doesn’t turn into mini one-on-ones that the Knicks should win.[/quote]

He can play Lin tighter. Lin is athletic but not Derrick-Rose-athletic.

Side note… anyone watch LBJ capably defend Dwight in the post the other night? This is the same guy who took out D-Rose in last year’s playoffs. It’s just patently ridiculous how good he is, no other player in the league can guard D-Rose and Dwight.

Don’t try and say Josh Smith, if he could defend Dwight they wouldn’t pay Collins to sit on the bench all year until they play ORL in the playoffs and give him 30 minutes.
[/quote]

Of course Rose is quicker, but he bricks wide open 15 footers like it’s his job. Lin doesn’t. But, Rose has a quicker release and elevates. Lin doesn’t. He’s gonna he to sag 'cause Lin has proven he can get to the rack on anybody.

Also, sagging 5ft off of someone then guarding someone with NO MOVES doesn’t make him an elite defender. Howard bricks wide open hook shots from 5 feet. BADLY.
[/quote]

Haha, I knew you would have a reason that it’s not impressive someone can guard an MVP point guard and the best center in the league.

Ok then name me a single player in the NBA who could do the same. Plenty of people sag off D-Rose, if it was THAT easy to keep him from driving he wouldn’t have won MVP and scored 25ppg last year.

Say what you want about Dwight but you have to have legit strength to keep him from backing you down and getting it in his spot. The point I was making was more about LBJ having the quickness to guard Rose and the strength to keep Dwight out of the lane. His combination of size and speed just don’t cease to amaze me.

104

Different but somewhat related point: LBJ is blowing away the field right now and has taken his game to another level. If he doesn’t win the title this year it will be a sin against basketball and officially the greatest waste of talent in history.

I mean, 28ppg/8rpg/7apg on 55% shooting and 40% from 3pt range? From a guy whose 6’8" 250? It’s video game numbers at this point.

105

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Different but somewhat related point: LBJ is blowing away the field right now and has taken his game to another level. If he doesn’t win the title this year it will be a sin against basketball and officially the greatest waste of talent in history.

I mean, 28ppg/8rpg/7apg on 55% shooting and 40% from 3pt range? From a guy whose 6’8" 250? It’s video game numbers at this point.[/quote]

By title do you mean MVP or the actual title?

106

[quote]scj119 wrote:

I’m not defensive you just have a lot of opinions that aren’t grounded in anything near reality.[/quote]

Like…?

107

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

I’m not defensive you just have a lot of opinions that aren’t grounded in anything near reality.[/quote]

Like…?[/quote]

I am not going to spend an hour going through your posts to quote every dumb comment you make, sorry I don’t have that kind of time. Let’s start by saying that you said Lin having a single game with 3 turnovers meant he had permanently solved his turnover problem.

Lots of young guards turn the ball over a lot, and gradually get better. You don’t cut your turnover rate in half permanently overnight.

Secondly, side track about the argument we had about whatever top level of ball you played… how is that relevant to basketball discussion? Why do we have this retarded notion that people who played at a high level better understand what it takes to win? Michael Jordan is the best player of all time and assembled the current Charlotte Bobcats roster who just lost 16 in a row (5 losses by 25 or more in that stretch) and might be one of the worst teams in NBA history.

So can we please stop saying that being a good player means you know what it takes for teams to win games when you aren’t on the court?

108

Is it just me or has there been about a trillion missed dunks/layups this game?

109

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

I’m not defensive you just have a lot of opinions that aren’t grounded in anything near reality.[/quote]

Like…?[/quote]

I am not going to spend an hour going through your posts to quote every dumb comment you make, sorry I don’t have that kind of time. Let’s start by saying that you said Lin having a single game with 3 turnovers meant he had permanently solved his turnover problem.

Lots of young guards turn the ball over a lot, and gradually get better. You don’t cut your turnover rate in half permanently overnight.

Secondly, side track about the argument we had about whatever top level of ball you played… how is that relevant to basketball discussion? Why do we have this retarded notion that people who played at a high level better understand what it takes to win? Michael Jordan is the best player of all time and assembled the current Charlotte Bobcats roster who just lost 16 in a row (5 losses by 25 or more in that stretch) and might be one of the worst teams in NBA history.

So can we please stop saying that being a good player means you know what it takes for teams to win games when you aren’t on the court?[/quote]

Yes I knew you were going to bring that up because that’s what we’ve been talking about. I have not been controversial prior to that to the extent you can label me as some kind of irrational commentator on here that completely ignores statistics. If it’s not to much I’d like to ask you for some respect at the very least.

Any how, I addressed the TO thing on the previous page. My emphasis was on how TOs can be remedied relatively easily compared to other stats on the box score. I listed some factors and ‘experience’ was one of them, which should have indicated to you that I never even insinuated Lin would never have a TO problem again. Read the wording of my entire exchange on that topic.

On count of my personal basketball experience I merely shared some minor history to illustrate that I’ve played [play] the game so I derive some of my opinions from that. I’m a very private person so I hate talking about myself. I hope I didn’t come across as self important but if I did you can blame WF.

110

Was happy I made it home in time for the 4th quarter… wasn’t much to watch though. Looked like the Knicks got reality check’d from what action I saw.

Question… did the Heat scheme away the PnR and force the ball into Melo ISOs or did Melo call his own number from the get-go?

111

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
Different but somewhat related point: LBJ is blowing away the field right now and has taken his game to another level. If he doesn’t win the title this year it will be a sin against basketball and officially the greatest waste of talent in history.

I mean, 28ppg/8rpg/7apg on 55% shooting and 40% from 3pt range? From a guy whose 6’8" 250? It’s video game numbers at this point.[/quote]

By title do you mean MVP or the actual title?[/quote]

Title. If he doesn’t win a title with the way he’s playing this year and what he’s done with his game, he will be committing a crime against the basketball gods.

IMO he is the frontrunner for MVP as well.

112

The Heat reality check everyone not just the Knicks.

Lin Detractors will have something to sink there teeth into now. He played like a Deer in Headlights, the pressure the Heat put on him was unbelievable. But Lin was not the reason why they lost, they lost because Amare once again shit the bed, dissapeared in the second half, melo shot 7-20 and fucking Baron Davis was atrocious as well.

The amount of second chance shots was ridiculous. When Shane Battier clanks one of the side of the back board and gets his own rebound and scores you know its not gonna go your way.

Knicks have a real tough schedule ahead of them…we will see what happens, talent wise if they put it all together they should do well

113

Rough game for Lin, he looked totally shook out there in the first half.

Anyways how scary good are the Heat? I knew they were playing well but I hadn’t watched any of their games the last week or 2.

114

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I dont see why Get is getting flamed so much. Because of the TO comment? [/quote]

There are like what, 6-7 regular posters in this thread. Only one hating is WF, I don’t know why scj is getting all defensive.[/quote]

I’m not hating, it is entertaining

I’ll be on record that rebs is the easiest stat to “remedy” unless you’ve got backcourt responsibility to be back

Also at gamespeed, coachspeak means very little - it’s either drilled in or it isn’t

And as far as committing bonehead TOs - that’s ENTIRELY about quality of opponent, speed of the game, etc (ie. no one is playing sloppy/pickup style between NBA reg season whistles)

115

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Lin Detractors will have something to sink there teeth into now. [/quote]

meh.

my guess is that it’s been like some of us have been alluding to; he’s not as good as his short stint thus far, and he’s not as bad as he was in the heat game. the truth of Lin probably lies somewhere in between.

top 5 PG? LOL
“elite” guard? LOL

like i said, maybe not even a starter come playoff time or next season. an NBA player? yes.

the point is, let’s see what he can do over time. and in that sense, the heat game is no more meaningful than his good (short) stretch.

yeah yeah…i know…i haven’t watched him play yet. but i know “elite” pg’s do not get cut twice and materialize out of the d-league. does. not. happen.

116

But it’s hard to increase your rebounds per game because it isn’t entirely dependant on you to the extent that TOs are. I know your opponent tries to force you to turnover the ball but after that second or third time you, as a player still in the game (thereby meaning you are talented enough to be playing even though you were forced to make mistakes) have the advantage of not letting it happen again.

Kobe had 10 turnovers a couple of games ago and around 6 the game after that. He’s going through a stretch. He’s going to get those TO numbers down eventually.

Using a logical number, if you’re averaging 8 turnovers a game, you’re playing too much minutes and it’s the coaches fault.

I also thought Matty made a good point however many pages ago when he said Lin had ‘offset’ a lot of his bad TO games with steals. I’ve watched a lot of Knicks games lately like everyone else and I think his TOs are a result of him being aggressive and trying to make plays. This is probably sans the Miami game where he just got plain rattled and didn’t know what to do.

117

Nice post count btw chillain. Around 2.5k in 7 years. Enigmatic - I like it.

118

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
But it’s hard to increase your rebounds per game because it isn’t entirely dependant on you to the extent that TOs are. [/quote]

No, I still disagree.

Rebs are purely a function of effort at the offensive end and effort + fundamentals (ie. move your feet and box-out) at the other end. And in general, most players can ‘get after it’ more.

The most common bonehead plays are actually ill-advised shots, since few players are careless/reckless with the ball at the NBA-level (ie. when TO’s occur, that’s because its NBA-level opponents that are causing/creating them)

119

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Lin Detractors will have something to sink there teeth into now. [/quote]

meh.

my guess is that it’s been like some of us have been alluding to; he’s not as good as his short stint thus far, and he’s not as bad as he was in the heat game. the truth of Lin probably lies somewhere in between.

top 5 PG? LOL
“elite” guard? LOL

like i said, maybe not even a starter come playoff time or next season. an NBA player? yes.

the point is, let’s see what he can do over time. and in that sense, the heat game is no more meaningful than his good (short) stretch.

yeah yeah…i know…i haven’t watched him play yet. but i know “elite” pg’s do not get cut twice and materialize out of the d-league. does. not. happen. [/quote]

I never said he would be an elite point guard, I said and still say he could be a quality starting point guard on a playoff team. I do not think its fair that one horrible game cancels out his excellent string of two weeks of games…thats not fair. Just as its not fair to conclude that he is the messiah pointguard of the knicks. saying that his stretch has been simply good is really downplaying his stretch albeit short was a great stretch that was never accomplished in NBA history, whether he returns to being bench fodder or NBA Jorneyman, it will not take away that his stretch of games was a great not a good one.

I also think coming from an astute basketball person such as yourself (not being sarcastic) you should watch a few games of him before judging him based on the minds of past NBA scouts and GMs.

BTW there have been plenty of players that have had excellent NBA careers that fell through the cracks… such as

John Starks
Brad Miller
Gilbert Arenas
Anthony Mason
Mehmet Okur
Nate McMillan
Raja Bell
Darrell Armstrong
Jose Calderon
Ben Wallace

Most of the guys on this list werent even drafted! So it happens.

I do not think any

120

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
But it’s hard to increase your rebounds per game because it isn’t entirely dependant on you to the extent that TOs are. [/quote]

No, I still disagree.

Rebs are purely a function of effort at the offensive end and effort + fundamentals (ie. move your feet and box-out) at the other end. And in general, most players can ‘get after it’ more.

The most common bonehead plays are actually ill-advised shots, since few players are careless/reckless with the ball at the NBA-level (ie. when TO’s occur, that’s because its NBA-level opponents that are causing/creating them)
[/quote]

But you have 4 other guys on your team + the 5 on the other team to compete with for the rebound. You can’t become Kevin Love as easy as you can minimize your TOs.

I disagree that all TOs are caused by defensive pressure. Ricky Rubio has had some plain silly TOs including a ball off his foot against the Knicks in that close game a couple of weeks ago. Lin seems to lose it a lot because he sometimes tries to bull rush his way to the paint. Not to mention the TOs you make from bad passes i.e trying to create something that’s just not there.