But don’t you train in a rep range conducive primarily towards myogenic tone?
Is beginner an absolute term here as in, time spent hitting the gym, or a relative term, i. e. time spent training with dedication (for instance, Wendler would classify someone with five years of fuck-aboutery in the gym as a beginner).
Secondly, if someone lost muscle mass from too excessive a deficit is the muscle weight easier to gain back than to attain in the first place? I guess “easier” here is relative as such a person still has plenty of adipose tissue ready to fill up when presented with a caloric surplus.
I have no idea what that even means HAHA.
I mean I train with 3’s, 5’s, 8’s primarily. So whatever that gives me that’s what I have haha. I’m in the 500 squat/dl+, 300+ bench/bb row, and 200+ oh press club so that’s all I know lol.
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I doubt rep ranges has much to do with that. I think maturity of the muscle plays a larger role as well as genetics.
Maybe it would have been appropriate for me to say something to the tune of, as far as I’m aware @isdatnutty attempts (and succeeds) at lifting heavy weights which might explain the denseness of his muscles as per Let's Get Nasty
Myogenic tone is what’s often called “tonus.” While this is a taboo word in hardcore training circles because of the “I just want to tone” crowd, the fact remains that it’s a very real phenomenon. Ironically, to improve myogenic tone to the max, it’s not the gym bunny with the pink dumbbells that’ll see the best results.
You see, myogenic tone refers to a state of partial muscle activation. It means that even at rest the nervous system is keeping some tension in the muscle, probably to stay in a state of readiness if ever a situation requiring an instant force production arises.
Myogenic tone will be determined mostly by two things:
Neural efficiency: The more efficient the nervous system is, the greater your myogenic tone will be. Since heavy lifting improves the neural aspect of force production much more so than lighter lifting, it’s only logical that this form of training will lead to more tonus over time.
Specific muscle fiber development: Some studies have shown that HTMU’s (fast-twitch fibers) are predominantly superficial muscle fibers, while slow-twitch fibers lie deeper in the muscle. Preferential hypertrophy of the HTMU’s, which are close to the skin surface, may make a muscle appear more solid. This is especially true when your body fat levels are low.In fact, it’s pretty easy to distinguish between a “pumper” and a heavy lifter, even among pro bodybuilders.
The pumper seems to double in volume midway through his workout. When you look at him in an un-pumped state, he won’t appear that impressive. Give him twenty minutes in the gym and you’ll think he’s a completely different person. An hour after his workout, he’ll once again look less than impressive.
On the other hand, find a guy who does a lot of heavy lifting and you’ll see someone who doesn’t change that much regardless of if he’s pumped or not. He’ll look just as solid, massive, and impressive at rest than during an intense workout.
I think there is some mix up there between myogenic tone and neurogenic. I could be wrong though.
Men always add an inch. Have you taken this into account?
Intense thread is intense. A voluminous thread.
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Just because CT wrote about it does not make it true. Damn near all weightlifters use heavy, low reps yet they are never used as examples. Dorian Yates himself said that look was from years of HIIT i.e heavy and balls to the wall intense, genetics and next level conditioning.
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No argument there. I recall someone, cannot remember who, mention that when they started lifting heavier that some people in his surrounding pointed out that he was looking increasingly dense whereas in the past they’d acknowledge his size. But, yeah, with the benefit of hindsight I clearly didn’t contribute to the value of the thread.
I like using 3-8 reps per set for the big compound lifts. I like going heavy on these, so 10’s are too light.
I like using 10-15 reps on the assistance work.
With the weights I use it’s hard to be focused for 10+ reps in a set. So I like more sets less reps (usually) and then I get that “pump” with the assistance work.
Seems to work for my body and also for my personality. I’m not a body builder and figured if I hit certain numbers on lifts and stayed pretty lean I would like the way I look and look like I’m strong. So far that is true.
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Not too light, they just suck. I did eight sets of 15 with 10 seconds of rest between sets with just the bar today. Light? Yes. Easy or fun? No.
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What do you mean by light? What would your RPE be on those sets?
I do not like low rep work because while explosive you do not feel the muscle working. I would not say that higher rep is light though, it is brutal. I personally stick to a double progression model for most lifts so, squats would be in the 8-10 rep range. After warm ups my first set is a hard RPE 9-10 for 10 the next 2-3 sets will be trying to get 10 but, will not happen.
I’m running my own experiment using Doggcrapp training and a 500 calorie surplus for a whole year to see if I can add some true mass to my frame. Looking back I’ve managed to get a load stronger in the last 5 years but I look the same when really I want to be bigger. Thanks for all the discussions above it’s made a great read.
I’m rather concerned though that I’m going to add a lid of weight and not a load of good mass but I guess only time will tell if I’m doing the right things.
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Good luck!
What would you guys say is the best way to measure if a hypertrophy programme is working? That might be a silly question, but how will I know if I’m responding using using a certain training system (like Doggcrapp) for example.
Would it be the scale plus body fat measurements, or just the mirror?
After I’m 3 months in I should probably check that I’m o the right path?
All that, plus getting stronger. The mirror will show if you’re getting too far. I don’t think mega bulls are good but if you eat enough to get bigger you’ll gain some fat.
Photos, actual measurements (if you care to put forth the effort, but it is a very slow process), strength levels, how your clothing fits, … but it’s usually a visual thing.
S
Dante’s big thing is “beat the logbook” You wanna make sure you’re either doing more weight or more reps.
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Size gains can be measured in a couple of ways. All important.
The mirror is a good gauge, but your brain can fool you into seeing XYZ (both good and bad).
I have a couple of indicator tape measurements I use to let me know when I’m getting too fat (love handle area mostly).
Then gym performance in the mass rep range (ala “beating the log book”)
Chances are good if you are lifting 50 more pounds for 8 reps, your waist is within an inch of your starting, and you look bigger in the mirror you are on the right track.