Natty on Pennies

[danteism]

@Voxel

Haha, you are dangerously close to omni-contraction

That’s kind of funny, Thibs has talked about his approach to training athletes (having days focused on contraction types) and while I wasn’t exactly going for that it does kind of seem like it, to be honest

@Voxel

I presume you need overhead for strongman? But for bodybuilding, incline might be better than flat?

Yeah, overhead is for strongman, and to grow some delts. Icline being better than flat really depends on the situation. Total muscle growth kind of seem to be better with flat and upper chest growth difference is debatable. If you bench with rather close grip and elbows tucked your clavicular chest fibers (so upper chest) are in a great line of pull, so one could speculate that it should give you decent upper chest growth as well. (and there are a handful of coaches who agree with the statement). Besides that, everything can be fixed with accessory work.

I would really go for incline over flat if someone really liked it or disliked flat, or if they wanted to reduce the overall fatigue as incline is generally lighter than flat. It could also be used for someone whose sole focus is overhead press, as an accessory.

@Voxel

(I’d prefer a chest-supported row to reduce axial loading and not cause too much inward rotation of the shoulder if you choose a horizontal press for B but I know you want to do chins)

Yeahm, if someone wanted to row with this setup I’d prefer chest supported or inverted rows as well. Personally, I don’t care about rows too much. They don’t seem to translate well to my deads and I get good enough back stimulus from chins. Only if I were to really focus on back growth I’d do rows apart from face pull and maybe a chest supported row here and there

@Voxel

ACC: 3x5, 3x4, 4x3 (isometric) multi-pauses, fewer reps on an eccentric/slow tempo day, same on concentric gradually increasing load. Multi-pauses to iron out any would be technical flaws.

Do you mean this as in D1 is 3x5, D2 is 3x4 etc. or every day is 3x5 in wk1, 2x4 in wk2 and so on?

@Voxel

REA/Peak: Ramp on a heavy day, have two body building days (one upper, one lower), and have an explosive whole body day

What is your though process behind having two bb days? Personally if I’m peaking I put all my focus into wahtever it is that I’m peaking, and depending on the context, just hammer that 3-6 days a week before a deload while only doing enough volume work to keep from detraining too much A peak is usually so short that you won’t need to worry about losing muscle mass.

Overall, an interesting approach, could definitely be worth trying

@Voxel

Either you’d have to pace yourself (dull) or suck ass after the first circuit. I’d maybe do an EMOM thing there instead, and pair one lower-body with one upper-body thing.

It’s actually quite manageable (in a twisted way) sucks the life out of you, for sure, but the load drop makes it easier to endure. I’ve never had to rest more than 45 seconds between exercises and 120 seconds between circuits here. An EMOM approach would definitely bring more variety into the week, how would you desing it? Something like Front squats and chins, 3reps EMOM for x time, same thing with OHP and leg curl or someo ther lower body movement?

@Voxel

If you really wanted to emphasize the strongman idea maybe it’d be better to include some carries?

Sure would. My current gym doesn’t fit that too well (DBs only up to 60kgs and the only place you could do carries in is too narrow for a trap bar). I could try using fat grips on the DBs though. Gotta try that.

@Voxel

So, to recap, you want to pursue

1. Bodybuilding
2. Strongman
3. Increase weighted chins, I respect the urge, and it doesn’t run anathema to either 1 or 2 but it’s a stressor that needs to be weighed against the former two.

Yeah, and this is pretty much the order I rank them in. Strongman is most likely coming after bodybuilding time-wise, and I’ll just seek out a casual show. (Doesn’t mean I don’t want to do my best there, but just to give some perspective). With chins I’m just trying to set a new PR, it’s just for fun.

@Voxel

I know you like goals/performance (and like “heavy” work).

Oh yeah. That’s my thing

@Voxel

Given your work, do you have leeway to sneak away and do an exercise in a powerrack now and again?

For sure, if I’m inbetween clients I usually either film something for a tutorial or just do a couple of sets of chins/dips/whatever it is. Helps me keep awake and attentive.

@Voxel

I know CT has one of his bobsleigh athletes do sets of 1-2 reps of squats throughout the day (10-12 sets) without warming up, using 70-80% of his max.

That sounds interesting to say at least. Never thought of doing something like that.

@Voxel

I’d maybe trade one front squat day for a trap-bar deadlift. But I say that with my leverages.

I built this program to be almost “hyper-focused” on certain exercises so that I have concrete goals and I can work on them really often (as in, do the exact lifts or something really similar) because as of late I’ve been kind of in and out with programming and all that. So in a way it feels easier to have little variation so I don’t just start doing random stuff like I have for a couple of months.

That being said, trap bar could work pretty well as it is kind of a hybrid movement and it simulates a farmers carry pick up and car deads to some degree. I may use it when I decide I’ve front squatted enough. In general I do feel that deadlift and bench strength comes back pretty fast for me, so I’m not worried if I lose a couple of kilos off of them

I appreciate the input, you had some great points in there and your twist on the program was definitely interesting (and more though out for the long run, gotta admit).

[Voxel]

@danteism

Yeahm, if someone wanted to row with this setup I’d prefer chest supported or inverted rows as well. Personally, I don’t care about rows too much. They don’t seem to translate well to my deads and I get good enough back stimulus from chins. Only if I were to really focus on back growth I’d do rows apart from face pull and maybe a chest supported row here and there

I think the face pulls are a good inclusion but maybe this’ll be fine for you. I ride a desk, so maybe that’s why I’m extra mindful of not designing programs that might encourage inward rotation of the shoulder.

@danteism

Do you mean this as in D1 is 3x5, D2 is 3x4 etc. or every day is 3x5 in wk1, 2x4 in wk2 and so on?

The second option. I outlined how the weeks would progress for the isometric day. The other days would be adjusted in relation to what training stress they induce or what the goal of those days are.

@danteism

What is your though process behind having two bb days?

It’s an oddity for sure. If this was me, I’d like to bring my A-game on heavy day and explosive day and the BB days are just to keep me in the gym with equal frequency and to provide a mental boost of getting some variation towards the tail-end of the program.

I should’ve stuck with REA. I was thinking like 3-4wks.

@danteism

Something like Front squats and chins, 3reps EMOM for x time, same thing with OHP and leg curl or someo ther lower body movement?

Yeah, an upper/lower pairing. 20 minutes 3 reps wk1, add one rep per week until you hit 5 reps and then increase weight and reset at 3 reps.

I’d do squat/press though, because I can pull more than I can press so I want to even out the stress over the session.

[Voxel]

EMOM gives you some added work capacity for strongman, I guess

[danteism]

@Voxel

It’s an oddity for sure. If this was me, I’d like to bring my A-game on heavy day and explosive day and the BB days are just to keep me in the gym with equal frequency and to provide a mental boost of getting some variation towards the tail-end of the program.

Different approaches for different people, it seems. For me doing full-on bodybuilding days during peak/rea just feels mind-numbing, so I like to spread the stuff out and do as little of it as possible

@Voxel

Yeah, an upper/lower pairing. 20 minutes 3 reps wk1, add one rep per week until you hit 5 reps and then increase weight and reset at 3 reps.

5 reps EMOM for 20 minutes sounds like stuff of nightmares. Definitely gives you some work to do. My thinking behind the pairings was that that way you won’t need to adjust the weight and your lower back may feel quite fatigued if you pair the squat and the press. (Although after a couple of sessions that shouldn’t be a problem).

@Voxel

EMOM gives you some added work capacity for strongman, I guess

For sure. Not the most strongman-like way to do stuff (as strongman is usually 30-90 seconds of all out work) but it won’t hurt to do something like that. I may work it in to the program in a couple of weeks

[Voxel]

For the EMOM I’d go with 80% of my 1RM.

Then only the final week is the stuff of nightmares and the first two are more strength-skill and work capacity.

[Voxel]

@danteism

squat and the press

True. I’d probably do bench instead of the press but that’s just me.

[danteism]

@Voxel

For the EMOM I’d go with 80% of my 1RM.

Then only the final week is the stuff of nightmares and the first two are more strength-skill and work capacity.

I wouldn’t put a set percentage on it, as people vary a lot. In general I’ll need to drop the load to around 70-75% of my max to get a non-lethal set of five on the front squat. So doing 10 sets of 5 with 80% sound borderline impossible. RPE could be used here instead. What the first set should feel like still depends on the person: one guy can do it at RPE9 and be fine till the end, while someone else will need to start at RPE6 because they don’t have the work capacity for it

@Voxel

True. I’d probably do bench instead of the press but that’s just me.

With bench I can see that working a lot better: get the hard stuff (Squat+bench) out of the way and then blast through chins/rows and whatever you have left

[Voxel]

You can probably are more adept at displaying your strength. But, just to clarify so we are considering the same scenario.

80% of a 1RM (NOT a rare PR) for the first EMOM session for 3 reps and then don’t adjust the weight for three weeks so, assuming you recover properly during week 1 and 2 then on week 3 that might now be effectively a smaller percentage of your max.

[danteism]

@Voxel

You can probably are more adept at displaying your strength. But, just to clarify so we are considering the same scenario.

Could be. Front squats have always been kind of weird for me. I’m really poor at rep work with them

@Voxel

80% of a 1RM (NOT a rare PR)

Yeah, going off of something oddly high you hit wouldn’t be too smart.

Are we taking about a weight you can hit consistently (think, 75% of the time), or a weight you can hit any day of the week? Considering the amount of work sets we do I’d rather go with the latter one.

@Voxel

assuming you recover properly during week 1 and 2 then on week 3 that might now be effectively a smaller percentage of your max.

I was thinking this too. Wouldn’t count on it too mich though as you may be doing a bit too much and accumulate excessive amounts of fatigue or just have a bad day

[Voxel]

@danteism

Are we taking about a weight you can hit consistently (think, 75% of the time), or a weight you can hit any day of the week? Considering the amount of work sets we do I’d rather go with the latter one

Depends. If it’s someone that’s bullheaded or has a ego problem definitely a everyday max (like 90% of an estimated 1RM). If not I’d go with 80% and adjust -5% if life is beating you up on a per session basis. Intuitive style.

[danteism]

General life update

I’m back again. For a while, at least.

@danteism

as of late I’ve been kind of in and out with programming and all that

It’s kind of interesting when I come back here (like I do every six or so months nowadays, it seems) and kind of see where things started to go wrong.

It was pretty much at this point where I started to just straight up spiral downwards. I couldn’t sleep. I was tired. Slowly my training started to get affected. I still got to the gym four-ish times a week but it was not anything close to my regular efforts.

Shortly after I kind of got hooked on a couple of video games, which is not something I normally do. And when I say hooked, I mean it. I was putting in literally 12-14 hours a day into that stuff (gotta say, I did get pretty dang good). My diet was pretty much two whey shakes and one solid meal (which could mean anything from deli meat to chicken drumsticks) per day. It was probably 800-1200 calories.

I did still train, but it couldn’t make up for the inactivity, poor diet and sleep. It was pretty miserable. Like, the only physical activity I got was training clients, and there has been a bit less of that due to the virus.

I’ve lost like 15kgs of bodyweight since the post I quoted. And a lot of strength was lost with it. Now I’m starting to get back on track, still not at 100% but getting there. I’m not gonna make excuses for myself, I made a mistake. A lot of mistakes really, and got into a real bad loop of things.

So that’s what’s up at the moment

[stronkfak]

Nice to see you back dude

[Voxel]

You were running yourself pretty hard before the pandemic so I’m not too surprised. Practice self-kindness. There are far worse ways you could’ve treated yourself during this period.

[danteism]

@stronkfak

Nice to see you back dude

Glad to see you’re around as well! How have you been?

[danteism]

@Voxel

You were running yourself pretty hard before the pandemic so I’m not too surprised.

Yeah, in hindsight I was pretty much digging my own grave there. I went over the limit and it cost me

@Voxel

Practice self-kindness.

This is hard. I’ve always gone with a “more and harder” - kind of mindset and burning the candle from both ends

@Voxel

There are far worse ways you could’ve treated yourself during this period

That’s for sure. Luckily I’m not into any of the “harder” ways to pass time. Had I done the same with drugs and/or alcohol, the results could’ve been pretty nasty.

What have you been up to lately, how’s life?

[Voxel]

@danteism

This is hard. I’ve always gone with a “more and harder” - kind of mindset and burning the candle from both ends

Me too

@danteism

What have you been up to lately, how’s life?

Got covid (maybe). Binged. I burned out. And underate. And overexercised. I’m alright.

[danteism]

@Voxel

Got covid (maybe). Binged. I burned out. And underate. And overexercised. I’m alright.

Jeesh, that sounds real harsh. But it’s good that you recognized these behaviours, and I’m sure you’ll pull through with them as well as the possible covid.

[Voxel]

Oh yeah, the covid or whatever it was is over. Was just a wet blanket for a month. Took another month before my lungs felt like themselves.

[Voxel]

So how are you bringing your strength back up on your return?

[danteism]

@Voxel

Oh yeah, the covid or whatever it was is over.

Glad to hear that. Definitely sounds unpleasant. How has your training been lately, did you do anything while you had whatever it was?

@Voxel

how are you bringing your strength back up

Well, as I have lost a lot of strength and some muscle as well it’s rather simple really: just fixing my eating and sleeping habits while also training consistently will give me plenty of my old strength back.

So really at the moment I’m just trying to make training interesting, while saving the fancier stuff for when I need it.

My current program is a really simple upper/lower split with a bunch of compound movements done in the 4-10 rep range. In addition to that I do some higher rep stuff for quads, hams and arms.