Natty on Pennies

Training Logs
1282

Sounds all good to me

That alone puts you lightyears ahead most dieters

Personally I never really lose performance whule dieting because I put so much focus on peri-workout nutrition. It’s no joke

Sounds good

Yeah, of course quark would probably be a nicer opinion in terms of enjoying the food. Having quark available to you really makes things easier, doesn’t it?

Love that filename man

I like to adjust as I go instead of having preset adjustments, because I see no point in dropping calories if I’m still losing fat.

That’s great news, the more calories you can have on a diet the better. Gives you a lot more room to adjust and just overall a more comfortable diet.

Do you run a log here? It would be interesting to see how you’re training and progressing

I believe you can get them at Lidl, at least I’ve seen them there

1283

I don’t even have much of a performance in the beginning so I can probably get away with being really skimpish across the board if I had to. My 1RMs are so close to my 8RMs it’s not even funny.

I actually like cottage cheese more :see_no_evil:

You mean “DIET BITCH”? Yeah, me too. It’s not the filename though. The program outputs all of the plans (diet, mass, sustain). Maybe I should add this audio line if I ever make it so that you have to run each piece separately? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoPAtfIqNR4

Totally understandable, I wing certain things still but I always thought my metabolism was broken basically but I was just guesstimating poorly. Weighing everything finally got me results so I’m going that route.

My thoughts exactly!

No, maybe I should…

Ah cool, I will have to check then, I have a Lidl about 200m away but as are two other grocery stores that satisfy 99% of my needs.

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1284

Yeah, if you’re a beginner you will most likely gain strength even when in a deficit

Guess you can’t argue about taste. Personally I can’t down more than 300ish grams of cottage cheese, with quark even double that is no problem

Yeah, that, I’m not exactly a technology wonderchild

You should put all of your trash food into one closet and make this play if you open the door

A lot of people make that assumption while in reality they just have no idea of how much they are eating. Goes for both losing and gaining weight

It would be nice to get some more Nordic blood in here

Lidl is pretty great, I get like 90% of my food there.

1285

Yeah, totes have as well (lucky me). Although not a complete beginner, but I’ve kept my DL number throughout the weightloss, BP and OHP is up. Squat is about the same.

Well yeah, eating heaps of it is just plain boring.

No worries.

I don’t own trash food :slight_smile: Have stocked up on tiny pickles for the day the hunger gets to be too much.

I’ve noticed this as well now, obviously. Especially among my hard-gainer friends.

I’ll maybe set it up end of day tomorrow.

This alone will get me there.

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1286

That’s great to hear. Keeping your strength or even improving while on a cut brings a certain feeling of confidence with what you’re doing, and that feels pretty nice.

I feel that’s the case with all dairy products, they have a horrible texture really. I ate 1.5 kilos of potatoes after training today with no problem, but if I were to do the same with quark or even yoghurt you could forget it. (Not that I would substitute quark for potatoes, that’s just an example)

Is this something secret technique? I usually just starve.

One thing you don’t want to do is to have too much filler foods - your stomach has to empty every once in a while for it to function normally. I can’t recall the scientific terms for this at the moment but basically if your stomach is always full it will stop registering the feeling of fullness and you’ll be hungry no matter how much you’ve eaten. That’s a part of the reason why I’ve switched to eating less meals and only having 1-2 big meals daily. (And that’s also why I keep my meals rather small when dieting)

Yeah, usually the hard gainers eat one or two voluminous meals (for them) per day with maybe some snacks in there and they perceive that as eating like a horse or force feeding. Also, their capacity to eat food is usually quite small if they are not accustomed to eating truly big meals. For example, I can down over 3 kilos of solid food and then some liquids on top of that and be all good to eat again in a couple of hours, whereas my brother may eat three slices of a pizza and be stuffed for half a day. We are brothers so there shouldn’t be that much difference genetically, it’s just that I’ve been eating a lot fo years while he hasn’t.

Nice, I’ll make sure to get in there

1287

Training log:

Volume deload, day 3:

Hamstrings&Quads
(At a different than usual gym)

  1. Lying hamstring curl rest-Pause set; first mini-set to failure, the following two with forced reps (10 breaths)

15+9(+6forced reps)+6(+9forced reps) x Stack
drop to half a stack
Pumping till failure, it was around 25-30 reps

  1. Hack squat machine zigzagdropset; every set to failure (no rest between sets), bodybuilding style after reducing weight, just moving the weight after increasing.

21x150
12x120
8-10x135
8-10x105
8-10x120
8-10x90
5-8x105
5-8x75
5-8x90
5-8x60
5x75
5x45
5x60
5x30
5x45
5x15
5x30
2 minutes rest, almost throwing up

50x45kgs with constant tension and a while lot of forced reps

  1. Leg extension
    2 sets of:
    8 reps to failure + 8 forced reps
    drop 25% weight
    Reps until failure + enough forced reps to get to 16
    drop 25%
    Same as above

quad stretch

Notes:

I knew this was going to be a tough session, but hell, I forgot how awful hack squats can be.

The leg curl was great, but it’s pretty self-explanatory.

The hack squat, however. Yeah. First off, during the drop set I was going only a bit below parallel instead of full depth, as I felt it in my quads more this way. On the 50 rep set I went ass to grass as the weight was light and my quads were fried.

The weights you see don’t include the weight of the empty machine as I don’t know what it was, probably around 30-40 kilos. You see the note about technique variations in there, if you didn’t get it it means I did the movement as a movement on “sets” that are odd numbered. On even numbers (the lighter ones) I went full bodybuilding style.

Now that was all one pretty continuous set with only a couple of breathing pauses here and there, I didn’t rest between drops at all really.

The reason for why there are no exact numbers apart from the initial set and the first drop is that I could not process reps past that point. I do, however remember that at some point in the end I could only do sets of five no matter the weight, so I put that in there too.

I damn near broke the machine by squeezing the handles together on the widowmaker set. At some point after rep 35 i started hearing this crackling sound from the handles. Oh well, nothing broke.

Finished up with leg extensions done in demon training style, felt like blowtorching the quads.

The gym was really cool, after my post-workout shake I went and tried some of the stuff they had such as a strongman log, a tire flip machine, an inversion table and a sled. Really cool place. If it was closer I’d definitely go there regularly.

1288

The smell too… :mask:

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1289

That looks like a leg session from hell.

Nice

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1290

Word up

I’m an ex-carbophobe outside of pizza, that would be tough for me. Impressive though!

No, I don’t think so. Pickles are very low calorie though.

If you remember the term, let me know. I don’t know how meal frequency impacts the hormones that regulate hunger (ghrelin primarily) but I don’t eat that often either. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, pre-bed snack. I consume my filler foods along with my meals.

That’s a very accurate description I would say, goes in line with what I have observed in friends and co-workers.

Here you go: Nordic Blood: Climbing And Lifting / Lifting And Climbing

I uploaded photos, hoping to encourage you to do the same!

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1291

I couldn’t find or recall the term but I can explain some of the science behind it when I get home (my coffee break ends in five minutes, no chance I could explain it now)

That’s an awesome log name man!

Maybe someday, maybe someday

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1292

= never :joy:

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1293

You read me like an open book

1294

Alright, @Voxel, buckle up

So, why can filler foods actually make you more hungry?

There is a hormone called Cholecystokinin (CCK) that plays a vital part in suppressing hunger as you stomach fills up. (It has other functions as well but those don’t interest us at the moment)

The thing is, CCK needs amplitude changes to work properly. In other words, if it is constantly triggered your body will become numb to it’s effects. (Much like developing insulin resistance).
The way we can avoid this from happening is to simply have a bit longer time intervals between meals and to not eat until we are stuffed on every meal.

Now that doesn’t mean you should always leave your stomach half empty. It’s completely safe to have a voluminous meal before going to sleep for example. Having 4-5 meals a day is completely fine as well, as long as they’re not massive.

I though this would be a longer post, oh well.

If you want to learn more about CCK, here’s a Wikipedia article:

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1295

Well you did supply the first half :wink:

I’m thinking that this whole “never” business demands someone saying “never say never”, so there. I said it!

About CCK, thank you. Totally worth knowing!

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1296

Training log:

Volume deload; Delts and triceps

1a Side delt burns
2x20x15kgs
1b Cable side laterals w/rope
2x20x10kgs (completed sets with rest-pause)

2 Seated smith machine OHP RP (10breaths) dropset into zigzagdropset, no rest

6+4x75kgs
5+3x60kgs
7+4x45kgs
3x75kgs
8x45kgs
6x60kgs
6x45kgs
8x30kgs (with pause on chin level)

3 Side+front lateral
1 mechanical drop set with 6kgs

4a Dip dropset
4x+25kgs
4xBW
4b Standing cable skullcrusher RP Dropset
7+4x60kgs
8x50kgs
11x40kgs

5a Rope tricep extension
15x35kgs
10s rest
15x35kgs
15s rest
15x35kgs
5b Lying BB skullcrusher
8x30kgs
straight into JM Press
10x30kgs

Tricep and delt stretches

Notes:

A great session, I must say.

I don’t think there’s anything really interesting with this session, apart from me being a god awful dipper. I’ve never been good at dips even though I wanted to, and they just feel very unnatural to me. Still did them, and they fit in pretty well.

You see a lot of rest-pauses in dropsets and all that, yeah, I like pain.

Tomorrow will be a back/rear delt kind of deal. Hopefully my quads soreness goes away before that, or else rowing will be awful.

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1297

So you are only deloading volume-wise, not intensity wise?

I’ve read most, if not all, of your log but I can’t remember you writing out what markers you used to do a refeed. Could you share your thoughts on that?

I read Scott Abel’s The Cycle Diet and I think it was a bit opaque on when it is time really other than that his clients spend a good chunk of time (8-12 weeks if memory serves) getting into super compensation mode their first time.

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1298

Volume and frequency - wise, yes. This is what most HIT advocates would call regular training. Just a few sets but they are done with extreme intensity.

This is a two part deload, first part is two weeks of this (low frequency and volume but extreme intensity), the second part is an actual deload if five days with just one upper body day and one lower body day.

I’m trying this out because I don’t feel that regular one-week deloads have ever worked for me as they should.

My two biggest indicators are appearance and scale weight. For some people workout performance is a good indicator but mine is rarely affected.

Visual cues may be a bit hard to see at first; most people have no idea what an empty and flat physique looks like. You also have to be pretty damn lean for it to show properly. The main thing to look for here is how full and round your muscles are compared to usual. It takes some time to learn.

With scale weight, it’s a game of two extremes; if your weight has been dropping well and it then stalls for some time (think 3-4 days) you may want to do a full refeed with both fats and carbs to get the engine humming again, so to speak. The thing with this is that you don’t necessarily need it. Other way is to just keep doing what you’re doing and eventually your weight may start dropping again. This is if your calories are already so low that you can’t drop them further (or you can only drop them once afterwards), if you can, may just do that.

In the other end of the spectrum; if your weight starts to steadily rise and you feel that it may be due to stress you may want to do a carb load. It doesn’t have to be a huge thing. Just have, say an extra 300 grams of carbs in 1-2 meals. For example, some fruit and rice is a great option.

With refeeds we have to remember a couple of things;

  1. If your diet is low in a micronutrient, you most likely don’t need to have it in a refeed. For example, you don’t eat a lot of carbs but you have a decent amount of fat in your diet, so carb loads are what you should start with.

  2. The leaner you are, the more you can tolerate in terms of calories. Far too often people do full-on cheat days every week while still being fat. There’s no need for that and it may actually just destroy your progress.

  3. Refeeds are a tool, not a privilege. Don’t use them if you don’t need them. It takes some time getting to know your body, so if you try them now and they don’t work, ditch them, but don’t be afraid to try them again later.

There were indicators like increased appetite and frequent urination in there which I’ve always felt to be kind of useless. On the other hand, the 8-12 weeks to get into supercompensation mode is a good thing to remember. Even if you start from 10% bf it’ll most likely take you 3-4 weeks to get into supercompensation mode, so people who refeed on week one while on the cycle diet and 20% bf are doing it horribly wrong.

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1299

Could this be because you maybe still went too hard? Or were you disciplined enough to go so light that at the end of a deload week you just wanted to chew on the barbell from being so understimulated?

And you have to have a physique to start with so that there is enough muscle there to even be able to look flat/depleted which isn’t the case for a lot of first time dieters I reckon. Obviously, fat loss is a very emotional subject for most (I feel as if Christian covers this well in Refined Physique Transformation)

We all want fast results. Fat loss if a very emotional issue; we want to be lean ASAP. But you must realize that the ones who will reach their goal are the ones who can progress for the longest period of time. And that requires doing the minimum necessary to get the job done and only adding things in as progress stops. In other words, gradually cut calories, increase cardio, and add supplements, but only as needed.

And I mean this in the sense that for some the fastest way to loose 10 pounds of fat would be to first gain 10 pounds of muscle (and then go on a diet).

I’ll not quote all the rest of what you’ve written, but you make some very excellent points, and I have no objections to anything. Especially worth noting, for me, is that maybe just a carb load will be adequate - so I appreciate you making a point of that.

I feel as if the book makes good mention of this, and I reckon it has to be the hardest thing for Scott to get across with his system is that “no, you cannot cheat all the time you animal!” as obviously, that is what most people want to do.

From my own (limited) experience, I think I’ve been very lucky with my refeeds. I did them when I felt like crap for several days, but it’s worth pointing out that what I was eating at those times was not optimal (velocity diet inspired). However, as a testament to refeeds working I’d gain weight for just that one day and then it came crashing down afterward - so obviously my metabolic rate was upregulated.

Now, I’ve felt great for far longer than before (more whole foods, veggies). Increased appetite is, to me, the first marker. As in, a meal isn’t satiating at all regardless of how much it is volume wise. I’d say that is where I am now, and I’ll try to string things along further before refeeding - if not solely for the learning experience. But, if the scale stays the same now even though I’ve reduced calories by 400 a day then I’ll refeed and see what happens.

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1300

I dropped both loads and volume by 20-40% depending on the exercise so I doubt I went too hard. I feel that for me it was a matter of going too light and for far too long - I did that for 9 days total.

That’s why I’m practically cutting the actual deload to a half of that (5 days) and doing it in a style that allows me to go to failure without being hard on the nervous system; muscle rounds. (6x4 with 10 second rests with a 12RM weight)

This first part of deload allows for great muscular recovery while still training hard. (As in, I’ve trained with such high frequencies that recover very fast between sessions, so if I only train a muscle once a week it has a lot of downtime in between)

Yeah, that’s right. Most people who have read about refeeds and understood nothing apart from “eating a lot in the middle of a diet” will start seeing and feeling “depletion” just because they want to justify cheating on their diet. Emotions should be kept out of the equation when it comes to dieting. It’s hard, yes, but in the end it’s all worth it.

That’s true. I’ve noticed that as I’ve gained more muscle, it has became gradually easier to lose fat and get leaner. The stuff I had to do with nutrition and supplements to get to 8% two years ago are ridiculous compared to what I did to get around 6-7% this year.

Start off with carb loads and if you have to go really low with fat (think sub 40g) start introducing it to your refeeds as well.

Just as a tip; if you have to load both fat and carbs, don’t eat the fat first thing in the morning. You’ll end up feeling full and not having as much of an appetite for the rest of the day. (Which is not what you want with full refeeds; it’s a go big or go home type of deal. With carb only refeeds things are a bit different)

Yeah, that’s kind of what cycle diet has become; an excuse to eat shut while dieting.

Got to say, the donut on the book’s cover doesn’t help

Sounds like you’ve been using refeeds right, even if the rest of the diet hasn’t been as good

Sounds good to me. Try to give it a bit of time before refeeding, just so you don’t fall into the “refeed every time my weight stalls for a while” - trap, as that may very easily turn into a cheat all the time kind of deal. But do not be afraid to refeed either, you have to be objective with this stuff.

1301

I see. But why did you deload for 9 days, that’s long by any standard, no?

Indeed, that’s why I felt you were bang on the noggin’ when you said it isn’t a privilege but a tool.

What “craziness” did you do back then?

For sure. Eating big though is… really easy for me. 6k calories is not anywhere near a challenge, and that’s eating clean.

Haha, indeed. For people that like donuts (I don’t) that cover has to be drool-inducing.

Definitely will give it a bit more time, I’m still waiting to see how the calorie cut pans out and I’ve only noticed the first sign of a need for a refeed as of yet, i.e. not getting satiated. Chewing gum helps with this, still. I might elaborate a bit on my observations from today when I write up today’s log entry, still another couple of hours to the day.

How’s your mass phase going? Since you don’t post pics we’ll have to hear your word on how you’re looking.

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