N.O.P.D. Most Crooked of All

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured.

It may not be pretty but I have been involved in many arrests where the individual won’t give up there hands and due to such active resistance from them their arm is broken. I have had to repeatedly punch a pepper sprayed individual in the face until they relinquished their hands.

As a police officer we are not required to retreat, we are required to affect the arrest for the safety of ourselves and the individual being brought in. If the man in question was refusing to give his hands up these officers aren’t just going to walk away.

82

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured.

It may not be pretty but I have been involved in many arrests where the individual won’t give up there hands and due to such active resistance from them their arm is broken. I have had to repeatedly punch a pepper sprayed individual in the face until they relinquished their hands.

As a police officer we are not required to retreat, we are required to affect the arrest for the safety of ourselves and the individual being brought in. If the man in question was refusing to give his hands up these officers aren’t just going to walk away.[/quote]

That’s what I saw on that video.

83

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured. [/quote]

Yeah, the problem some are just now finally realizing, is that if this is what constitutes “resisting arrest”, then we may just have a problem…especially if it leads to what just happened.

84

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured.

Yeah, the problem some are just now finally realizing, is that if this is what constitutes “resisting arrest”, then we may just have a problem…especially if it leads to what just happened.
[/quote]

What I’m getting from you X, is that this man did not actively resist the officers attempts to arrest him. Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying that since he didn’t physically attack the officers it wasn’t resisting arrest? Did you know that in the state of New Jersey the simple act of spitting on a police officer is aggravated assault allowing the officer to escalate his level of force to subdue the offender. If prosecuted to the fullest extent this offender could see 20 years in prison. Just food for thought.

85

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured.

Yeah, the problem some are just now finally realizing, is that if this is what constitutes “resisting arrest”, then we may just have a problem…especially if it leads to what just happened.
[/quote]

The old guy was clearly trying to prevent his hands from being cuffed, but the beat down they laid on him was above and beyond what was required.

The old man should not have resisted and should probably face charges.

The cops should face felony charges and never work as cops again.

86

[quote]snipeout wrote:
What I’m getting from you X, is that this man did not actively resist the officers attempts to arrest him. Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying that since he didn’t physically attack the officers it wasn’t resisting arrest? Did you know that in the state of New Jersey the simple act of spitting on a police officer is aggravated assault allowing the officer to escalate his level of force to subdue the offender. If prosecuted to the fullest extent this offender could see 20 years in prison. Just food for thought.[/quote]

Spitting on someone is the same as pulling your hand back in your eyes? Spitting on someone anywhere in society is seen as an attack. Outside of work, if someone were to do that, it would take much restraint on my part not return the favor with my fist, foot or random weapon of my choice.

87

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Cyco, I take it you saw the video then? I am a police officer also and although I only saw parts of the video, from my 10 years of experience this man was ACTIVELY resisting arrest. If I go to arrest someone and they refuse to give me their hands to be cuffed I can’t just walk away because they don’t want to be arrested. I am allowed to escalate my level of force until I get their hands secured.

Yeah, the problem some are just now finally realizing, is that if this is what constitutes “resisting arrest”, then we may just have a problem…especially if it leads to what just happened.
[/quote]

yeah, i saw the video…and he was resisting arrest. therefore the officers would utilize other options in order to take him into custody…this is not even a debatable issue. the problem here is that apparently many people think it’s okay to walk away from police officers and refuse to comply with their commands. again, it is not the individual’s right to resist arrest.

did they use poor technique in order to gain compliance? yeah, probably, because hitting someone in the back of the head doesn’t do much damage to them, and is likely to cause an injury to the person doing it…and yes, it looks bad. but when you have four officers struggling to place one guy in custody, HOW CAN YOU SAY HE WAS NOT REISISTING?!?

come on…

88

[quote]ALDurr wrote:

ProfX,

Amen to that brother! This type of thing happens all over this country, but because it happens to people of color, not to “the ones who are so priviledged either due to status, skin color, or blind luck to have never been in situations like this or be aware of their regular occurance”, it never makes it to the news.

I, much like yourself, have also been harassed by the police while growing up and on occassion even now for doing nothing more than “DWB”. For those of you that needs this explained to you, it means “Driving While Black”.

I have lived in or have visited many places across the USA and the situation is always the same when it comes to the police. However, I am fortunate because I have a good lawyer on retainer and it keeps the police stupidity down to a minimum.[/quote]

I’m not going to argue any points that you are making because i’m sure that cases like the ones you are talking about do happen all the time. but you really can’t say that they don’t make the news just because it happens to people of less status or people of the wrong skin color. a good college friend of mine got pulled over for DUI last year. he’s a young caucasian and he drives a 2002 Chevy Yukon so from what he drove he didn’t look poor.

he readily admits to resisting arrest initially. the cop then called for two back up cars so there was a total of six cops. at that point he voluntarily laid down on the ground on his stomach with his hands to his side. four of the six cops then proceeded to sit on him. the cop towards the front of his body grabbed my buddies head and slammed it into the street causing a large gash down the right side of his face needing 11 stitches to close. of course when he felt blood streaming down his face he started to move so another cop began to elbow him in the back/side consequently breaking two ribs.

i know this is true because i was already cuffed and stuffed in the squad car. my friend filed a report and made many many complaints to everyone outlet who would listen. not one thing ever became of it. no calls, no questions, nothing.

so to say that it only happens to people who are of lower status or of a minority is incorrect. if you resist arrest cops aren’t going to take it easy on you no matter who you are. i think this is where the questions of what is resisting and how much force is too much come into play. and it’s tricky stuff. again i’m not saying that minorities and lower status people do not get discriminated against because they definitely do, i’m just saying that to say they are the only ones is incorrect.

89

The point that you are missing X is that you are not allowedto refuse to be arrested, and physically the officers can do what they deem necessary at that moment in time to subdue, even if it fingers in the eyes. People are always so concerned with recording police actions, how about recording drug deals and the such. No that would violate the drug dealers civil rights now wouldn’t it.

90

[quote]snipeout wrote:
The point that you are missing X is that you are not allowedto refuse to be arrested, and physically the officers can do what they deem necessary at that moment in time to subdue, even if it fingers in the eyes. People are always so concerned with recording police actions, how about recording drug deals and the such. No that would violate the drug dealers civil rights now wouldn’t it.[/quote]

What does any of what you just wrote have to do with a man 64 years of age getting beat down by cops? Was he a drug dealer? Did he spit on anyone? No, he got has ass beat down and you are making excuses for it. The real question then becomes, was he even being harassed in the first place by cops for a legit reason or was this all an effort just to beat someone down that night? Yes, all eyes should be on you and every other cop. Any time someone in society gets that much power over people, they need to monitored to make sure they do the job right.

I personally think they need to revamp the whole system and require much more education and training. I personally don’t like the idea of someone with only a high school education and maybe a few credit hours from a local community college being given the ability to control an entire group of people with the mighty power of “the law”.

91

[quote]Professor X wrote:
snipeout wrote:
The point that you are missing X is that you are not allowedto refuse to be arrested, and physically the officers can do what they deem necessary at that moment in time to subdue, even if it fingers in the eyes. People are always so concerned with recording police actions, how about recording drug deals and the such. No that would violate the drug dealers civil rights now wouldn’t it.

What does any of what you just wrote have to do with a man 64 years of age getting beat down by cops? Was he a drug dealer? Did he spit on anyone? No, he got has ass beat down and you are making excuses for it. The real question then becomes, was he even being harassed in the first place by cops for a legit reason or was this all an effort just to beat someone down that night? Yes, all eyes should be on you and every other cop. Any time someone in society gets that much power over people, they need to monitored to make sure they do the job right.

I personally think they need to revamp the whole system and require much more education and training. I personally don’t like the idea of someone with only a high school education and maybe a few credit hours from a local community college being given the ability to control an entire group of people with the mighty power of “the law”.

[/quote]

i personally don’t like you critizing my job when you apparently don’t understand the law. the man resisted-it was clear-that’s illegal. i guess if you’re a senior citizen you’re allowed to break laws without any sort of repercusions, huh?

ya know what-i just won’t arrest anymore criminals anymore, because i don’t want to deal with people being unhappy with me “enforcing the law.” and maybe i’ll just go to everybody else’s job here and tell them that they’re all doing it wrong, even though i have no experienece in a factory, salesman, or any other jobs y’all have. obviously i have no experience in those other fields, but by god, since i’m on the interent you know i can do them better than you, since y’all know more about enforcing the law than me. whatever…

92

All I can say is, if you’ve never been a cop don’t judge the actions of officers affecting an arrest based on a couple of minutes of video tape.

The media is very biased against police. The media is also very liberal in its political views and tend to slant things and flat out lie.

Here’s my personal experience from my time on the force:

I had a guy one time that was dusted back in the early 80s running naked through a park acting bizarre, spitting on people, hitting people, cursing, growling, kicking cars, destroying property, etc. He was completely out of control.

When we arrived we observed this individual’s behavior and tried to subdue and cuff him. Because he was on PCP he had super human strength and felt no pain. He attacked my partner and I smacked him repeatedly with my night stick in an effort to get him off of him. We had called for backup on arrival and had several other officers arrive as I was attempting to subdue him. I wrist locked and arm locked the guy and put him on the ground as another officer cuffed him behind the back. In the process I seperated his shoulder and wrist. The guy went limp and we thought he had stopped resisting. As we stood him up on his feet he snapped the handcuffs from behind his back and went wild again.

This time we had 8 officers on scene and we literally had to beat this guy to the point of nearly killing him to subdue him again.

He wound up in intensive care on life support with a fractured skull, orbital fracture, broken jaw, dislocated shoulder and elbow (courtesy of me), broken arm (from snapping the cuffs), ruptured spleen, lacerated liver, collapsed lung, cardiac contussion, broken sternum, multiple rib fractures, basically fucked up nearly beyond repair. He was in a coma for about 2 weeks and suffered permanent brain damage from the incident. This guy was like arresting superman. He threw 250 pound guys around like toddlers. This however never made the news.

Needless to say we were sued, suspended without pay pending the outcome of an internal affairs and FBI investigation and left to twist in the wind. Thank God for the Police Association of New Orleans.

The media didn’t have the incident on tape but were quick to jump all over the story and make judgements about us before the facts were in. We were labled as brutal, and had used unecessary force, blah, blah, blah.

Because the incident was under investigation we were prohibited from talking to the media. Our names and faces were plastered all over the TV and the print news. The story was even picked up nationally. The family of the suspect were interviewed by the media with them boo-hooing on camera and pictures of the suspect on life support were plastered all over the news.

We were tried in the court of public opinion much like these officers are being judged now before the conclusion of the investigation. We had death threats made against us and had to hide our identities in public. There was no mention of injuries sustained by several of the arresting officers, some very serious.

Fortunately we had numerous witnesses on the scene that came forward on our behalf and set the record straight. Without the statements from those citizens I’d probably be in jail today. When the investigation had concluded we were exonerated of all charges. However the media never retracted the allegations they made against us or for their attack on our reputations. Nor did they ever apologize to us for the hell they put us through. When the outcome of the investigation became public and we were cleared, the story barely made the news and when it did the story was buried in the back of the newspaper and was only briefly mentioned on the local news and never made it to the national media.

The point is don’t jump to conclusions until all of the facts are in.

AssBuster

93

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

i personally don’t like you critizing my job when you apparently don’t understand the law. the man resisted-it was clear-that’s illegal. i guess if you’re a senior citizen you’re allowed to break laws without any sort of repercusions, huh?[/quote]

Did I write that? No, I didn’t. I do know that “repercussions” apparently means “bash his head in” to you.

And your point is? We live in a sue happy society. I know in my profession, we get outsiders telling us how we should do it all of the time. That doesn’t change the fact that every officer there stepped over the line and they need to be jacked up for it. I could care less if they follow all of you around with a video camera attached to your eyelid from now on.

94

In response to cyco I agree 1000% if you don’t know our job shut the fuck up and don’t pretend that you do. I don’t pretend to know yours X do I? Heres the prob though cyco, X knows everything about everything just ask him, thats why he continually talks down to everyone on this board, he knows it all about everything and has done it all.

Now here is what X is going to say " When the fuck did I ever state that I knew everything about everything blah blah blah" and then call me some sort of pompous ass. In answer to assbuster, X is an angry black man, an older black man resisted arrest and paid the price. You will never be right in this situation in his eyes.

95

[quote]Professor X wrote:
cycobushmaster wrote:

And your point is? We live in a sue happy society. I know in my profession, we get outsiders telling us how we should do it all of the time. That doesn’t change the fact that every officer there stepped over the line and they need to be jacked up for it. I could care less if they follow all of you around with a video camera attached to your eyelid from now on.
[/quote]

You could care less until you need one of us, then your on the phone quicker than the fat kid eating his twinkie.

96

You should know what your dealing with before you become a police officer,if you have any street expierience,think about it and if you dont think you can handle it ,dont do it for a living.Hell the one big guy in the video could have put the old guy in a Bear hug for a few seconds while his partner slapped the cuffs on.the situation would have been under control real fast .I had a nutty cop pull his gun out on me and my family when i was 6 on a sunday morning coming from the grocery,he had a rep of pushing people around,and nothing was done about it till he roughed up a politician in towns relative.

then they gave him a phsych. evaluation and said he shouldnt have been carrying a gun in the first place and thru him off the force.If he would have shot my dad and taken him away from me as a little boy .Guess what? when i grew up he would have been put down so no other little kids would suffer.

97

[quote]Professor X wrote:
cycobushmaster wrote:

i personally don’t like you critizing my job when you apparently don’t understand the law. the man resisted-it was clear-that’s illegal. i guess if you’re a senior citizen you’re allowed to break laws without any sort of repercusions, huh?

Did I write that? No, I didn’t. I do know that “repercussions” apparently means “bash his head in” to you.

ya know what-i just won’t arrest anymore criminals anymore, because i don’t want to deal with people being unhappy with me “enforcing the law.” and maybe i’ll just go to everybody else’s job here and tell them that they’re all doing it wrong, even though i have no experienece in a factory, salesman, or any other jobs y’all have. obviously i have no experience in those other fields, but by god, since i’m on the interent you know i can do them better than you, since y’all know more about enforcing the law than me. whatever…

And your point is? We live in a sue happy society. I know in my profession, we get outsiders telling us how we should do it all of the time. That doesn’t change the fact that every officer there stepped over the line and they need to be jacked up for it. I could care less if they follow all of you around with a video camera attached to your eyelid from now on.
[/quote]

X,

i’m done arguing with you since we’re both wasting each other’s time. i tried to explain the law (which is pretty clear), and you’ve got some issues with law enforcement in general that i can’t help with.

it honestly amazes me that so many people are adamant that that man should be allowed to resist uniformed police officers in the performance of their duties (investigating a public intoxication complaint). it really should piss off the law abiding people out there who regularly do the right thing that someone would willingly break the laws that they abide by in their daily lives.

yes, NO has problems. that point has been made over and over again…but after the massive degree of lawlessness displayed a few weeks ago that people were so critical off, i am honestly surprised how people react now…

98

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
cycobushmaster wrote:

And your point is? We live in a sue happy society. I know in my profession, we get outsiders telling us how we should do it all of the time. That doesn’t change the fact that every officer there stepped over the line and they need to be jacked up for it. I could care less if they follow all of you around with a video camera attached to your eyelid from now on.

You could care less until you need one of us, then your on the phone quicker than the fat kid eating his twinkie.[/quote]

I know jersy probably has a higher crime rate than my area,but the last time i called police in my area for a break in of neighbors cars,the crooks were still there and no police responded in over an hour,so i called back and in another half hour an officer showed up and said it was near the end of the shift thats probably why no one came.

Another time i was rear ended while sitting at red light,a woman officer showed up and didnt want to make report,tryed to talk me out of it,started giving me attitude cause she had to make report.I had a whip lash according to hospital and my car had damage.the girl that hit me was crying because she and her boyfriend had argued .

so the woman cop wanted to let her go and gave me shit .I can see why a lot of cops get into fights cause when the have dealings with honest citizens they give them shit as if they are some kind of criminal.you guys have to look at that side of the picture to.cops dont know everything even though some think they do.

99

As published in today’s Times-Picayune.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/gill/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1129271520221610.xml

Beware upsetting our high-strung police
Friday, October 14, 2005
James Gill
Cops making a night-time arrest on Bourbon Street will routinely throw in a public intoxication charge which, justified or not, is very hard to beat. Often, of course, it is justified.

You wouldn’t want to bet that anyone hanging around there is stone-cold sober, unless a gang of evangelicals happens to be looking for souls to save.

But any sobersides caught up in the Vieux Carre sweep just has to take his medicine. The presumption is that anyone who falls foul of the police has committed excessive revelry. No blood-alcohol tests are required, and judges rely on what police department spokesman Marlon Defillo terms the arresting officer’s “expertise.”

When three cops are working together, their combined expertise should enable them to spot a drunk at a hundred paces.

It is unlikely, therefore, that the cops who beat up and arrested Robert Davis last weekend could really have thought he was blitzed, if, as he says, no liquor has passed his lips since a bender in 1980.

Davis was booked not only with being drunk but with resisting arrest, battery on a police officer and public intimidation – the standard litany of charges cops reach for when a citizen makes them mad.

The cops, caught by a news cameraman, looked pretty burly, but they must be delicate souls if they really found Davis, a 64-year-old retired elementary schoolteacher, as big a handful as the charge sheet suggests. The video does not give the impression that the cops found Davis intimidating. He was pretty much helpless as they delivered a pummeling. You’d be a sucker to take their word for anything.

Davis pleaded not guilty in court Wednesday and got a January trial date, but the charges will surely be dismissed long before then. It is not easy for the courts to defer to the expertise of cops who lay a drunk charge on a citizen whose temperate intimates vouch for his temperate habits.

It is possible that the cops made a mistake, albeit one that would bring their department’s fallibility to a new level. More likely, though, their real expertise is in lying. Every police department has its share of officers who are happy to fit up citizens with bogus charges, confident that the courts will take their word for it.

We evidently have our share of such officers here, although police union chief David Benelli points out that the camera caught the assault from only one angle and that due process needs to take its course. Fair enough. Those goons are entitled to a presumption of innocence.

Their trial is set a week later than Davis’, but few defendants face such damning evidence as this. The video makes for pretty disgusting viewing, but credit the officers’ lawyer, Frank DeSalvo, with giving us a good laugh nevertheless. They arrested Davis, DeSalvo said, because he was stumbling drunk and they were trying to protect him.

Let us all hope we never need protection from such cops as these. Davis sure wasn’t stumbling after they got through, because they had smashed him to the ground. He seems to have had no idea that the cop repeatedly punching him in the back of the neck was doing it for his own good.

Even if, as DeSalvo contended at a press conference Wednesday, Davis was not the innocent stroller he claims to be, no provocation from an elderly citizen can warrant such a violent reaction. These cops are toast. Once the criminal case is over, Davis will probably have a sure-fire civil claim. But that is by no means the end of the travails the police department has heaped on the city.

Officers allegedly rode around after the storm in Cadillacs removed from a dealership, while some 250 are under investigation for possible desertion.

Two days after the Davis beating, a couple of cops had an ugly run-in with relief workers handing out food in the park on Washington Square. The stress of Katrina has left a lot of us a bit ratty, no doubt, but the Police Department seems to be returning to the days when it was regarded as a public enemy, before it was restored under the Marc Morial administration.

The department has suffered “a massive collapse,” Morial told Agency France Presse, and we “are almost faced with rebuilding” it. Amid all the investigations of corruption in his administration, Morial has been pretty quiet lately, and must have relished the rare opportunity to make us yearn, in one respect at least, for the good old days when he was in charge.

. . . . . . .

James Gill is a staff writer. He can be reached at (504) 826-3318 or at jgill@timespicayune.com.

100

[quote]ron33 wrote:
I can see why a lot of cops get into fights cause when the have dealings with honest citizens they give them shit as if they are some kind of criminal.you guys have to look at that side of the picture to.cops dont know everything even though some think they do.
[/quote]

When I was a kid, our house was broken into. They stole everything, even the bed sheets. We assume they used them to carry out the smaller items like the toaster and my He-man action figures (I guess thieves have kids too). My dad called the police and it took 2 hours before someone showed up.

This was South East Houston…Southpark, quite different than River Oaks…the “bad” side of town. I just called it “home”. That was how things went, however. That song “911 is a joke” wasn’t written for no reason. There are many people in this country who have been treated poorly by the police. To ignore that is retarded. You gain respect by giving it. The truth is, many people have never gotten it, regardless of the few who claim they are one of the righteous police who do actually treat people fairly. The police have an image problem. I wonder how long before they realize that no one can change that but them?