Veg -
The corruption is has roots as deeep as the city is old.
Louisianna has been known for its statewide corruption for the better part of the last century.
I think the corruption is what you call systemic. It’s as much a way of life for the folks of La. as getting a driver’s license renewed is for everyone else.
I would bet that you could go back to the days of Hughey P. Long, and connect the dots of corruption all the way up to the latest incarnation.
But I could be wrong.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
Also aren’t there memebers of the police force that are elected?
[/quote]
As y’all probably already know, what you know as counties are parishes here in La.
The Orleans Parish Sheriff is elected and runs the jail and whatever. Doesn’t have huge policing power. Last Sheriff is now the state’s DA.
The main police dept., the NOPD, has a superintendent that is appointed by the mayor. The superintendent was the one that resigned a couple weeks after the storm. The current acting superintendent recently ran for Sheriff of Orleans Parish and came in 2nd I believe to a politically connected Councilman or maybe he was a city official. But he’s rich.
I’m aware of that… but I’m suggesting a need for something a bit more targeted and proactive.
Either that, or we need some serious media attention on what the public can do to effectively fight police corruption. Perhaps giving everyone a video camera and the toll free number to CNN might be best…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Be wary of giving up rights and transferring power to any government agency, for any reason, or it will just be easier for them to get away with stuff like this.
Without the cameras present, this guy was just a violent drunk who deserved what he got for attacking the police officer trying to arrest him. With the cameras he’s the victim of police abuse that extends from beating this person and causing serious injury to intimidating innocent witnesses.
Think about what your rights mean to you… and why they should be protected at all costs.
The only people this has to be explained to…are the ones who who are so priviledged either due to status, skin color, or blind luck to have never been in situations like this or be aware of their regular occurance. I got pulled over many times by cops growing up in Houston for no other reason than being a black kid in a car. When this gets explained, I have often gotten responses bordering on me making an issue out of nothing. That isn’t to say it doesn’t happen to all races or to all age groups. It simply means that there do need to be tighter controls and we do need to guard the rights we have instead of giving them away due to fear of terror or anything else.
I saw the movie Crash last weekend for the first time. All it did was bring up memories.[/quote]
ProfX,
Amen to that brother! This type of thing happens all over this country, but because it happens to people of color, not to “the ones who are so priviledged either due to status, skin color, or blind luck to have never been in situations like this or be aware of their regular occurance”, it never makes it to the news.
I, much like yourself, have also been harassed by the police while growing up and on occassion even now for doing nothing more than “DWB”. For those of you that needs this explained to you, it means “Driving While Black”.
I have lived in or have visited many places across the USA and the situation is always the same when it comes to the police. However, I am fortunate because I have a good lawyer on retainer and it keeps the police stupidity down to a minimum.
Deep roots and lack of simplicity are sure roadblocks but not really much more. Eventually people will get fed up enough to actually do something about it. This is how democracy works, unfortunately the more complacent and lazy people get the longer it takes and the worse it gets before they take action.
In 100 or 200 years I promise you there will be people who pay a company to keep them hooked up to a “paradise machine”. This machine would feed them and keep them alive and healthy as well as fire thier muscle structures to prevent them from atrophy. The machine will be much like the matrix, only people will pay to live thier fantasies out in a perfect environment. Some people will have lifetime memberships, they really won’t care who does what in the real world as long as thier paradise is left alone. And since it resides in thier brains and a couple supercomputers, they will probably end up losing touch with the real world.
The sad truth is as technology advances, the need for democracy becomes less and less. People won’t care if they are represented or if they are dictated. Do they have food? TV? A sportscar? Get to drink and party? Get to take trips and go on vacations? I can see a time in the future where things get so good for people as far as quality of living goes that they really stop caring about politics and all the other resource positioning B.S. eventually we just won’t need it, there will be enough resources to make everyone comfortable. When people get comfortable, they become lazy, at least most do.
V
[quote]Vegita wrote:
I can see a time in the future where things get so good for people as far as quality of living goes that they really stop caring about politics and all the other resource positioning B.S. eventually we just won’t need it, there will be enough resources to make everyone comfortable. When people get comfortable, they become lazy, at least most do.
V [/quote]
You forgot about the part where the computers take over and a small band of resistance fights for the sake of the human race thus insuring we get set back 500 years in technology and start all over again.
[quote]spamme wrote:
Magma299 wrote:
To Vroom and Spamme,
I guess my idea of someone that deserves to be roughed up and your idea are two totally different things.
That goes without question. My guess is your idea of who needs to be roughed up would vary from most of the free world.
For me to be a dick to somebody they are going to have to behave pretty bad verbally before I get to that point.
Actually most likely what happened in New Orleans. Guy probably said something rude and police decided to “rough him up” for it. Sounds to me like you would fit right in, and I hear they are looking for some more cops there.
And Vroom you are correct the police are not the judge or jury…never have I met someone on the force who thought they were.
The fact you would need to get to “that point” for a verbal disparage, suggests a variance in the definition of judge and jury as well.
There were alot of things I didnt like cops doing when I wasnt one…now I understand why they do some of those things. (As I am sure someone will twist this into abusing someone).
No. Its self explanatory.
[/quote]
Sounds like someone had a bad exp with the police…with that attitude I wonder why?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Vegita wrote:
I can see a time in the future where things get so good for people as far as quality of living goes that they really stop caring about politics and all the other resource positioning B.S. eventually we just won’t need it, there will be enough resources to make everyone comfortable. When people get comfortable, they become lazy, at least most do.
V
You forgot about the part where the computers take over and a small band of resistance fights for the sake of the human race thus insuring we get set back 500 years in technology and start all over again.
[/quote]
Well Duh! I thought that part was self explanitory.
V
[quote]Magma299 wrote:
Sounds like someone had a bad exp with the police…with that attitude I wonder why?
[/quote]
Has anyone ever had a good experience with the police?
Besides hanging out off duty, or relatives or friends, has anyone here been helped by an officer when help was needed?
For the amount of bad experiences and harassments I’ve heard about, it would be a bit refreshing to hear some good stories.
[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
Magma299 wrote:
Sounds like someone had a bad exp with the police…with that attitude I wonder why?
Has anyone ever had a good experience with the police?
Besides hanging out off duty, or relatives or friends, has anyone here been helped by an officer when help was needed?
For the amount of bad experiences and harassments I’ve heard about, it would be a bit refreshing to hear some good stories.[/quote]
Once while I was walking home, they stopped me and helped me ensure I was sober by giving me a breathalizer.
An interesting read…
I’m a former New Orleans Police Officer. I spent over 12 yrs on the job there before I was injured and forced out, not only because of the limitations from my injury but also the color of my skin, which is white, but that’s another story.
NOPD is probably one of the most corrupt police organizations I have ever been exposed to. The problems stem from economics, racism, failed public school system, corruption and politics.
The economy of the New Orleans area has been on a steady decline since the late 1970s and early 80s due to the major decline in the oil industry back then. Unlike Texas and other oil producing areas, Louisiana has failed to diversify its economy which was heavily dependant on the oil and gas business. Since Louisiana failed to diversify there are few new revenue sources to pick up the slack and therefore the infrastructure (the reason for the Levee failures during Katrina), public schools and vital services such as the police, fire dept. and EMS were in deplorable conditions long before the storm hit.
When the economy went into the tank in the late 70s there was what’s called white flight. Many people that could afford it relocated to other states or surrounding areas with better economic opportunities leaving behind many poor black people with few skills, little education and very few opportunities. Then to seal the city’s fate the 1st black mayor in the city’s history was elected. Remember this was not too long after all the difficulties down south with civil rights and integration. This caused a huge rift in the community and even more white flight, further crippling the New Orleans tax base and economy. Many businesses moved out of New Orleans and into the predominately white surrounding suburbs causing an even greater loss of tax revenue. New Orleans was left with a predominantly poor black population. The crime in the city soon exploded because of its poor economy and crumbling infrastructure. This all led to the demise of the NOPD as well as countless other city and state agencies and their ability to provide services to the community.
NOPD is one of the lowest paid big city police depts. in the US making it nearly impossible to attract and retain good cops. Therefore city officials are stuck with having to lower standards to hire police officers. To make matters worse there is a residency requirement to be a police officer in New Orleans. You must reside in Orleans Parish to be a police officer and this is strongly enforced. You can’t even live in the adjacent suburbs like Jefferson, St.Tammany or St Bernard Parishes. Now as most of you have learned since hurricane Katrina, the City of New Orleans is pretty much a slum. Who wants to live in a slum? Don’t get me wrong there are very nice areas like the French Quarter, St. Charles Ave., Uptown, Lakeview, etc. Unfortunately those areas are fairly expensive and unaffordable by most NOPD wage standards. So to be a cop in New Orleans you have to pretty much take a vow of poverty and live in a dump.
Because of this you are stuck recruiting a lot of undesirable people to be cops. Many of the cops being hired were so bad the instructors actually had to teach basic reading, writing and arithmetic in the first 6 weeks of the police academy just so many of these geniuses could even fill out a traffic ticket and write a police report. Many recruits also had fairly extensive criminal backgrounds. The city made no bones about its reverse discrimination policies. Because the city was now predominantly black they wanted to hire almost exclusively black police officers. This has created a tremendous amount of tension in the department itself between black and white officers as well as the community in general.
I could go on and on but I think most of you get my point. Now that you better understand the conditions there and the root of the problems maybe you can see the reason the dept. is so corrupt and the cops so bad. I’m not defending them or their actions; quite the contrary. But, until the economic problems are solved in Louisiana and New Orleans this is a condition that has and will continue to repeat itself. The rebuilding to come post Katrina may be the city’s last best chance to get things going in the right direction again. Forgive me for saying this but in the end Katrina may end up being the best thing that happened to New Orleans in quite a long time.
AssBuster
Thanks, uh assbuster…man that feels weird to write…that was some great insight from an insider’s perspective to the problem.
http://www.focusanthro.org/essays/cook--03-04.html
Pretty good read also from a Stident doing a paper on Law enforcement.
Qoute from the paper…
"Social Images of Police Officers
Before this project, I was like any other average citizen – a believer that the police officers have a job to do while protecting our community, yet at the same time could come across as being aggressive and unreasonable when dealing with the public. I never stopped to think about how they feel or the toll it must take on them when they must deal with the human negativity day after day. To me, police officers were nameless and faceless people separated from the rest of society, an idea based primarily on the job requirements – to uphold the laws of the land. They are agents for the government, the enforcers of the laws, and supporters of what our society deems as appropriate behavior – even if it contradicts what an individual officer believes.
In the media, it seemed that police officers were seldom praised, but rather criticized or harassed for overstepping civil rights boundaries. News reports are quick to accuse police officers for brutality when in fact police departments have in place set policies and procedures to ensure officer safety, even if it means physically restraining an unruly citizen. With such varying degrees of police conduct however, it is no wonder that law enforcement in general has received some mixed reviews -- one day officers are publicized heroes like the praise received after September 11th, while on the next, portrayed as racist, brutal, and authoritarian. The lack of consistent public support appears to actually add to the stress of being a police officer because there is a negative and disrespectful image of law enforcement officers in our society. When the public loses trust and are unwilling to cooperate with the police, they are making a police officer?s job not only more stressful, but also harder to perform safely and effectively. "
Err I we were told about how corrupt the N.O.P.D was when I first joined the force. My instructors pretty much used them as an example on how not to have a police force.
Mag
[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
Magma299 wrote:
Sounds like someone had a bad exp with the police…with that attitude I wonder why?
Has anyone ever had a good experience with the police?
Besides hanging out off duty, or relatives or friends, has anyone here been helped by an officer when help was needed?
For the amount of bad experiences and harassments I’ve heard about, it would be a bit refreshing to hear some good stories.[/quote]
I admit, we must have it pretty good here in Indiana. I’ve heard more good stories than bad, even while in college. We didn’t have dirty campus police with a radio, in fact we had our own swat team. Ahhh…the good ole days of tear gas and riot gear. But that was warranted. I mean, when college students are setting fires, etc.
Any experience I’ve ever had has been good. Of course I was never on the bad side of the law. I think the lifestyle of this state has been a big factor into how our police officers are. Its expected that people are curtious and have integrity. I can’t say why it is, it just is.
[quote]Magma299 wrote:
spamme wrote:
Magma299 wrote:
To Vroom and Spamme,
I guess my idea of someone that deserves to be roughed up and your idea are two totally different things.
That goes without question. My guess is your idea of who needs to be roughed up would vary from most of the free world.
For me to be a dick to somebody they are going to have to behave pretty bad verbally before I get to that point.
Actually most likely what happened in New Orleans. Guy probably said something rude and police decided to “rough him up” for it. Sounds to me like you would fit right in, and I hear they are looking for some more cops there.
And Vroom you are correct the police are not the judge or jury…never have I met someone on the force who thought they were.
The fact you would need to get to “that point” for a verbal disparage, suggests a variance in the definition of judge and jury as well.
There were alot of things I didnt like cops doing when I wasnt one…now I understand why they do some of those things. (As I am sure someone will twist this into abusing someone).
No. Its self explanatory.
Sounds like someone had a bad exp with the police…with that attitude I wonder why?
[/quote]
Other than two speeding tickets, last about 12 years ago, havent had any experience on receiving end. And since I am white, I have never been stopped, as someone else put it, for DWB.
Though recently, I have had two vicarious negative experiences. One was watching that video tape. The other was listening to you use the phrase “deserved roughed up”, almost as if to trivialize and rationalize police brutality, when you feels its appropriate.
My attitude towards the police in my area is very positive. In the ER, I interact with them all the time. Not once have I heard one of them use the phrase “deserved roughing up”.
So just to be clear, I dont have a problem with police in general, just those who abuse, and those who think its ok in some circumstances.
wow…a lot of y’all make some really nice generalizations about police officers. that’s always ironic to me, since the most common time law enforcement interact with the public is to enforce the law. that’s just how it usually works…
i patrol a predominately black area on foot quite often, in order to meet citizens so they can tell me who is the cause of the problems in their community. usually some jackass will call me a “cracker” or a “pig” and ask what i’m doing. i tell them that i’m there to help, and i usually get insults hurled at me…so in that case, people only want me when they need something. nice.
for those of you that have simply had negative interactions with law enforcement-i’m sorry. seriously.
i don’t mess with people based off race, religion or anything else…well, i do fuck with drug dealers. can’t stand 'em…i guess that makes me a bad person, becuase i (and my friends) aggressively patrol high drug areas and pursue the types that are ruining my city. any chance we can pull them over and search them we do…because i hate what they’ve done to the community. so yeah, i single out the crack dealers and meth heads.
and any time when i’m arresting someone and they resist, i make them understand not to do that ever again. IT IS NOT YOUR RIGHT TO RESIST ARREST.
Define resist… lol.
I’ve never had a bad experience. In my younger days I got a lot of speeding tickets,had cops come to my apartment where a lot of underage people where drunk off their asses, got several stern warnings about urinating in public, and got in a lot of drunk bar fights that required talking to the police, but I never had a negative experience.
I have several friends (all white, also) who have spent nights or weekends in jail because of their attitudes. They were never doing anything worse than I was, but they had shitty attitudes when called on it by the police.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Define resist… lol.[/quote]
719.1 Interference with official acts.
A person who knowingly resists or obstructs anyone known by the person to be a peace officer, emergency medical care provider under chapter 147A, or fire fighter, whether paid or volunteer, in the performance of any act which is within the scope of the lawful duty or authority of that officer, emergency medical care provider under chapter 147A, or fire fighter, whether paid or volunteer, or who knowingly resists or obstructs the service or execution by any authorized person of any civil or criminal process or order of any court, commits a simple misdemeanor. In addition to any other penalties, the punishment imposed for a violation of this subsection shall include assessment of a fine of not less than two hundred fifty dollars. However, if a person commits an interference with official acts, as defined in this subsection, and in so doing inflicts bodily injury other than serious injury, that person commits an aggravated misdemeanor. If a person commits an interference with official acts, as defined in this subsection, and in so doing inflicts or attempts to inflict serious injury, or displays a dangerous weapon, as defined in section 702.7, or is armed with a firearm, that person commits a class “D” felony.
A person under the custody, control, or supervision of the department of corrections who knowingly resists, obstructs, or interferes with a correctional officer, agent, employee, or contractor, whether paid or volunteer, in the performance of the person’s official duties, commits a serious misdemeanor. If a person violates this subsection and in so doing commits an assault, as defined in section 708.1, the person commits an aggravated misdemeanor. If a person violates this subsection and in so doing inflicts or attempts to inflict bodily injury other than serious injury to another, displays a dangerous weapon, as defined in section 702.7, or is armed with a firearm, the person commits a class “D” felony. If a person violates this subsection and uses or attempts to use a dangerous weapon, as defined in section 702.7, or inflicts serious injury to another, the person commits a class “C” felony.
The terms “resist” and “obstruct”, as used in this section, do not include verbal harassment unless the verbal harassment is accompanied by a present ability and apparent intention to execute a verbal threat physically.