Myth of Americans Living Beyond Their Means

[countingbeans]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Actually I have a good idea for you. You can comment on this open forum debate and try to impress people with you GDP, social services effective tax rate side show arguments on why tax cuts for the rich and austerity easures are good for a failing economy.[/quote]

You do understand the macro is born of the micro right?

Let’s look at it like this:

I have a stack of paper, 135 pages thick. I need to bind it together.

In your mind, you would look at the stack that is 3 pages thick, see a staple works perfectly, and then spend the next 8 hours trying to staple the large stack, repeating to yourself over and over, “but it worked over here, it has to work here too”.

Facts and circumstances determine the situation.

I cannot believe I’m actually entertaining an argument with a grown man who refuses to acknowledge that inputs determine results.

Maybe you can educate these folks. What's the Best Way to Stimulate the Economy? - NYTimes.com

I assume they have run you off already?

[countingbeans]

My edit didn’t go through so:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Actually I have a good idea for you. You can comment on this open forum debate and try to impress people with you GDP, social services effective tax rate side show arguments on why tax cuts for the rich and austerity easures are good for a failing economy.[/quote]

You do understand the macro is born of the micro right?

Let’s look at it like this:

I have a stack of paper, 135 pages thick. I need to bind it together.

In your mind, you would look at the stack that is 3 pages thick, see a staple works perfectly, and then spend the next 8 hours trying to staple the large stack, repeating to yourself over and over, “but it worked over here, it has to work here too”.

Facts and circumstances determine the situation.

I cannot believe I’m actually entertaining an argument with a grown man who refuses to acknowledge that inputs determine results.

[quote] Maybe you can educate these folks. http://www.nytimes.com/...economy
[/quote]

I assume they have run you off already?

[MaximusB]

Zeppelin,

If you want a great argument why your ideas suck, look at my state of California, it is the most effective rebuttal ever.

When a governor calls a millionaire someone who “makes $250/year and saves for 4 years”, you know it’s time to welcome the asteroids colliding with the Earth.

[dmaddox]

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.

[orion]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Zeppelin,

If you want a great argument why your ideas suck, look at my state of California, it is the most effective rebuttal ever.

When a governor calls a millionaire someone who “makes $250/year and saves for 4 years”, you know it’s time to welcome the asteroids colliding with the Earth. [/quote]

Balderdash. Stimulus classical Keynesian economics works much better for an ailing economy that austerity measures. The evidence is going on right before your eyes. So they aren’t my ideas but they do work and if you think that sucks you need to get on some meds.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
My edit didn’t go through so:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Actually I have a good idea for you. You can comment on this open forum debate and try to impress people with you GDP, social services effective tax rate side show arguments on why tax cuts for the rich and austerity easures are good for a failing economy.[/quote]

You do understand the macro is born of the micro right?

Let’s look at it like this:

I have a stack of paper, 135 pages thick. I need to bind it together.

In your mind, you would look at the stack that is 3 pages thick, see a staple works perfectly, and then spend the next 8 hours trying to staple the large stack, repeating to yourself over and over, “but it worked over here, it has to work here too”.

Facts and circumstances determine the situation.

I cannot believe I’m actually entertaining an argument with a grown man who refuses to acknowledge that inputs determine results.

[quote] Maybe you can educate these folks. http://www.nytimes.com/...economy
[/quote]

I assume they have run you off already? [/quote]

You can complete your fascination and mental masturbation with micro-economics if you choose but the world goes on without you. Where in the world is austerity measures working? Where in the world is stimulus macro Keynesian economics working? Check Ecuador they have come out of a recession in 3 months. I don’t need to know the in depth technical reasons how email actually works just that it does. But that is me maybe you need to know that sort of stuff. My overarching point is that austerity measures will only help cause a recession where ever it’s tried and stimulus will only help people get out of one. The small stuff doesn’t matter all that much as the result for both theories is the same when it’s tried.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

You can complete your fascination and mental masturbation with micro-economics if you choose but the world goes on without you. [/quote]

You can continue to try these limp wristed insults if you choose, but intelligent conversation goes on without you.

Where in the world is austerity measures working?

Canada, circa 92 or 93. Early 90s anyway. I can find more examples too, but that should be enough for you, seeing as you don’t like details or more than one point of view.

Where in the world is stimulus macro Keynesian economics working?

Do you even know what Keynesian economics calls for? Can you explain it with the use of the word “stimulus”?

How’d it work out for Japan?

Check Ecuador they have come out of a recession in 3 months.

Lol at this. Many people have already pointed out your logical gap here.

I don’t need to know the in depth technical reasons how email actually works just that it does.

You do need to know what the other persons email address is, and what you want to say, what to put in the subject and how to frame it so it doesn’t get trapped in a spam filter.

My overarching point is that austerity measures will only help cause a recession where ever it’s tried

False.

and stimulus will only help people get out of one.

False. See Obama’s. Did jack and shit.

The small stuff doesn’t matter all that much

You have to be trolling at this point.

[UtahLama]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
but every time one uses austerity as a means to reign in the debt it hurts the economy BESIDE those factors. And every time a government uses an appropriate stimulus to help a sagging economy it works. Is this just coincedence?

[/quote]

Source?[/quote]

Evidence. History. Current economic affairs.[/quote]

This kind of thing cracks me up…an accountant is ripping apart your every point and you rebut with “nananananana cause I SAY SO”

Classic.

[pittbulll]

Zeppelin. Don’t lose heart . you are in the den of iniquity

[Severiano]

Zeppelin putting on a master class.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Zeppelin putting on a master class. [/quote]

Yeah, that is what happening for sure.

As always, stunning input. Care to address the many many points your buddy has ignored?

[dmaddox]

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�??�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…[/quote]

I forgot about that one. Zombies expect to feast off of the living and give nothing back, so they would be a liberal. lol

[pittbulll]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�??�??�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…[/quote]

I forgot about that one. Zombies expect to feast off of the living and give nothing back, so they would be a liberal. lol [/quote]

No you misinterpret Zombies , They like an unregulated market on non Zombies

[dmaddox]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�??�??�??�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…[/quote]

I forgot about that one. Zombies expect to feast off of the living and give nothing back, so they would be a liberal. lol [/quote]

No you misinterpret Zombies , They like an unregulated market on non Zombies [/quote]

But the Non Zombies believe in the 2nd amendment so they can defend themselves from Zombies. Zombies are liberal because there should be no guns, or a limit on the types of guns and magazine capacity. Zombies are liberal.

[pittbulll]

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�??�??�??�??�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…[/quote]

I forgot about that one. Zombies expect to feast off of the living and give nothing back, so they would be a liberal. lol [/quote]

No you misinterpret Zombies , They like an unregulated market on non Zombies [/quote]

But the Non Zombies believe in the 2nd amendment so they can defend themselves from Zombies. Zombies are liberal because there should be no guns, or a limit on the types of guns and magazine capacity. Zombies are liberal.[/quote]

the only reason Zombies are against guns is it would defeat their purpose. If they shoot some one they will not be able to convert them to their Zombie religion

[dmaddox]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Are you of DMaddox�??�??�??�??�??�?�´s tribe?[/quote]

Where did this come from? You comparing me to a mindless dumbass who accepts anything a liberal idiot tells him.[/quote]

Zombies and such?

I will admitt though that zombies are downright conservative, in a way…[/quote]

I forgot about that one. Zombies expect to feast off of the living and give nothing back, so they would be a liberal. lol [/quote]

No you misinterpret Zombies , They like an unregulated market on non Zombies [/quote]

But the Non Zombies believe in the 2nd amendment so they can defend themselves from Zombies. Zombies are liberal because there should be no guns, or a limit on the types of guns and magazine capacity. Zombies are liberal.[/quote]

the only reason Zombies are against guns is it would defeat their purpose. If they shoot some one they will not be able to convert them to their Zombie religion
[/quote]

So that is why liberals, I mean Zombies, don’t want guns in the hands of the law abiding humans. The law abiding humans will shoot their zombie voters in the face with a shotgun when they enter their houses to convert them to their liberal, I mean Zombie, religion.

[Zeppelin795]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

You can complete your fascination and mental masturbation with micro-economics if you choose but the world goes on without you. [/quote]

You can continue to try these limp wristed insults if you choose, but intelligent conversation goes on without you.

Where in the world is austerity measures working?

Canada, circa 92 or 93. Early 90s anyway. I can find more examples too, but that should be enough for you, seeing as you don’t like details or more than one point of view.

Where in the world is stimulus macro Keynesian economics working?

Do you even know what Keynesian economics calls for? Can you explain it with the use of the word “stimulus”?

How’d it work out for Japan?

Check Ecuador they have come out of a recession in 3 months.

Lol at this. Many people have already pointed out your logical gap here.

I don’t need to know the in depth technical reasons how email actually works just that it does.

You do need to know what the other persons email address is, and what you want to say, what to put in the subject and how to frame it so it doesn’t get trapped in a spam filter.

My overarching point is that austerity measures will only help cause a recession where ever it’s tried

False.

and stimulus will only help people get out of one.

False. See Obama’s. Did jack and shit.

The small stuff doesn’t matter all that much

You have to be trolling at this point.[/quote]

Okay first off Obama’s stimulus was small in comparison with the crisis. It helped but wasn’t large enough.

As far as my “logical gap on Ecuador”, you apparently only read that which supports your arguments. Of course the price of oil has something to do with it but the key is where are those profits going? Education, health care, infrastructure. You know socialist-type things. I have said this more than once. Since you are fond of insinuating that I choose to ignore points of argument then what is your excuse?

Austerity measures do cause a greater recession- true!

Keynesian economics essentially calls for deficit spending even in the face of a deficit because jobs are the primary concern not the deficit. Stimulus fits in well with this macro-economic model and it doesn’t give a shit about cash flow into and out of entity structures. And micro-economic things of that nature. Showing that the micro is sub to the macro in his economic model. Do you think President Correa mapped out his micro-economic plan before he put into practice Keynesian style economics that have worked ot bring that country out of a recession in 3 months? Tell him how it matters so much.

Please post all the learned studies from the rich or those sponsored by the rich of how Canada managed to do the impossible: take money out of the hands of citizens and the economy grew them out of the economic doldrums.

Please explain how “it” did not work out for Japan.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Okay first off Obama’s stimulus was small in comparison with the crisis. It helped but wasn’t large enough.[/quote]

Yeah! That’s it. Got to be kidding me.

As far as my “logical gap on Ecuador”, you apparently only read that which supports your arguments. Of course the price of oil has something to do with it but the key is where are those profits going? Education, health care, infrastructure.

Since you are fond of saying I waste too much time on details, and then go one in detail here, what is your excuse.

The entire point has and always has been, Ecuador and “Europe” are two very different places, with different resources, industries, people and culture. You paint with the big brush and think because it worked in one place it has to work everywhere. No that isn’t true.

I have said this more than once.

After like 4 other people pointed out your fallacy.

Austerity measures do cause a greater recession- true!

Lol, yes I’m sure your putting all your eggs in the “bbbuuuutttt government spending is part of GDP” basket. amirite?

and it doesn’t give a shit about cash flow into and out of entity structures. And micro-economic things of that nature.

ah…

Do you think President Correa mapped out his micro-economic plan before he put into practice Keynesian style economics that have worked ot bring that country out of a recession in 3 months?

If you don’t think these moves are planned and this spending is detailed at the micro level, you have no business commenting on the topic.

What, so he just puts checks on the table and people come and pick them up as they please?

unreal.

Please post all the learned studies from the rich or those sponsored by the rich of how Canada managed to do the impossible: take money out of the hands of citizens and the economy grew them out of the economic doldrums.

What are you talking about? Are you denying Canada’s austerity took place?

And you never back up your claims, why should I have to?

Please explain how “it” did not work out for Japan.

Let me guess you have a Krugman link all ready to go?

lol

[countingbeans]

Tried to edit in a critical “don’t” in there, hope it sticks