Aug 4:
total 1343 (264-916)
free 22.3 (7.2-24.0)
E2 46.4 (7.6-42.6)
Aug 9:
total 548
free 9.0
E2 <5
Same lab co. but different lab location, same time of day. Both fasting. On trt, I can give all kinds of details once I find out if these results are humanly possible. For now I’ll just mention that I had not been taking any AI’s leading up to the first test, but took 25mg of aromasin on August 5.
Men metabolizes T at a different rates, also depending on the ester for example cypionate has a typical half-life of 7-8 days, ethanate 5-6 days. By taking a suicidal inhibitor you are screwing with your hormonal pathways, your body can no longer covert T->E2 and can be forced down another pathway.
Only detail needed is were they taken at the same time in relation to your last injection?
Edit: wait, these are five days apart? Again, depending on when your injection was, this does or does not make sense
I realized that the AI was too much per my E2 results, but I didn’t know it could be forced down another pathway. That explains a lot.
I did not inject between those two days.
I inject 200mg test cyp E7D. My last regular injection was 7/23. For reasons I’d rather not get into, I took another 200mg dose on 7/25. That was the last injection before any blood tests.
On 7/27, my total T was unreadable (over 1500), and my E2 was 37.4. Free was not taken.
Then I got the blood tests on 8/4 and when I saw my total was still very high (1343), I decided to not inject until I got down closer to normal. I also decided to take the aromasin.
I was hoping to be around 1000 on 8/9 with E2 in the 20’s. I was very surprised at the very low total T and E2 results.
Ahhh ok, then that result looks correct. You just dropped off TT that quickly
I started on trt due to low free and high SHBG. After starting trt, once SHBG seemed good, I stopped testing for it. Thanks for the explanation about it. I appreciate it.
I had no idea T could plummet that quickly, especially when it was still 1343 on August 4, which was a full 8 days since last pinning. Now that I know better, I don’t plan to do this again, but if it happens I’ll definitely test SHBG and let you know.
While not typically expected, I would not say it is unusual. I’ve seen a lot of that with guys getting labs at different intervals. Also interesting, I have not seen any correlation with SHBG.
It’s not much different from DHT blockers, in PFS we see a doubling or even tripling of Total T and estrogen and SHBG as well creating an imbalance. There’s no reason both of us can’t be right as I’m sure it’s more complex than it seems.
Medical records were reviewed retrospectively from adult men who presented for a clinical evaluation of adult onset hypogonadism ( n = 33), and from adult men who were being treated for hypogonadism with transdermal testosterone ( n = 25).
Small sample. I wonder if the results would differ if patients not qualifying for the diagnosis of hypogonadism were to be included. One of these days I’ll have to put some numbers together.
So inject twice a week, EOD or daily. Problem fixed.
I have had no luck dividing up 1ml vials. The first extraction from each vial is smooth, but subsequent ones leave much of the oil spilling out through the puncture hole.
Seven more vials to use and then I’ll ask for a 10ml so I can increase pinning frequency.
I pinned 200 on Aug 10, and I’m thinking of front loading a little. My E2 is already at rock bottom so I’m not worried about a spike in that. I was thinking of pinning on the 14th, 18th, 22nd, and 27th. That will leave me with three vials to take weekly (9/3, 9/10, 9/17) right in time for my refill.
If anyone thinks this is a terrible idea, please let me know. And I can get my labs done twice during that time. If anyone has an idea when I should get those done, please let me know. .
I would be interested to know how you would apply the information in that study in a clinical setting.
How big of a needles are you using?? I use a 27g to draw/shoot and have no issues pulling 3-4 shots out of a 1mL vial
I did some rudimentary math based on half-life, and my original front-loading scheme seems way overboard. From my calculations, if I pin again on the 14th and 18th, I’ll have reached a baseline to start pinning E7D from there. Then in mid-Sept I’ll get the refill for a 10ml vial and start dividing up my doses. I’ll also get blood checked at least once before then…
I draw with 18 and shoot with 23. I’ve trying drawing with 23 and got nowhere, so I definitely can’t do it with 27. I’ve watched a lot of videos about drawing techniques, but I guess just don’t have the knack.
Guess not lol. Are you using a 1mL syringe? Even with room temp oil it takes about 45 seconds to fill .5mL
I’m actually using 3ml syringes. I’m a little embarrassed to say I didn’t realize there were different sizes. These are what the pharmacy gave me the first time, and the ones I ordered from Amazon ended up being the same size. Could this explain my difficulty?
Yep. Pressure is different, much harder to draw with those larger syringes. 1mL are available on Amazon
I can’t. There is nothing there that gives me any help in determining a better method to provide care to patients, unless I’m missing something. I can give you a few observations regarding SHBG’s application in a clinical setting.
If there is higher SHBG, then I’ll expect to have to run total testosterone higher for symptom resolution, which means I may start them with a higher dose. The reverse with low SHBG.
I see no correlation with SHBG and dosing frequency. Some with higher levels end up with twice weekly injections while some very low do just fine with once. No trend either way. I do not take a new guy with low SHBG and think he’ll need to start with twice. I don’t think one with high levels will never need to consider more frequent injections.
Sometimes SHBG drops on exogenous test, sometimes it elevates. Usually, no significant change. I’m considering no longer checking it on follow-up and sometimes I stop ordering it.
I can’t say I’ve seen any consistent relation to SHBG and effects of estrogen, high or low.
SHBG does typically increase with thyroid patients, necessitating increasing testosterone dosing, which I often will, especially with women.
I see some with high SHBG levels and high free testosterone %s. And the reverse.
That’s about it.