My Self Esteem Has Never Been Lower

Off Topic
22

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Choosing your battles is neither sad nor upsetting. In all reality it is very liberating, uplifting and generally wonderful. Because don’t confuse the fact SHE is also choosing her battles. And the more and more you both let the little shit slide and not build up, not only are the big things less drastic (less built up resentment) but you’re both conditioned on how to compromise and work through issues.

Long gone are the days of little bickers turning into actual fights. Goodbye screaming matches. Hello to rational and calm communication. No more worrying about little inconsequential bullshit. No more stressing about a text interaction with a perfect stranger for a week or more, because it’s trivial, you’ve learned to pick your battles.

Rare is the relationship that is so wonderful fights are nonexistent from the start. More common are relationships were a couple learned the other person, and grew together to come to a point where fights are generally nonexistent.

23

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Just googled it. You’re a liar. It was neither interesting nor worth googling. Could be the terrible article I read from breitbart.com that had absolutely zero substance or, ya know, facts to back up their claims, but this just seems like some made up bologna.

I’m interested to hear your take/experience with it, though

24

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Choosing your battles is neither sad nor upsetting. In all reality it is very liberating, uplifting and generally wonderful. Because don’t confuse the fact SHE is also choosing her battles. And the more and more you both let the little shit slide and not build up, not only are the big things less drastic (less built up resentment) but you’re both conditioned on how to compromise and work through issues.

Long gone are the days of little bickers turning into actual fights. Goodbye screaming matches. Hello to rational and calm communication. No more worrying about little inconsequential bullshit. No more stressing about a text interaction with a perfect stranger for a week or more, because it’s trivial, you’ve learned to pick your battles.

Rare is the relationship that is so wonderful fights are nonexistent from the start. More common are relationships were a couple learned the other person, and grew together to come to a point where fights are generally nonexistent. [/quote]

Outstanding

25

texted her to clarify and she was indeed talking about her boyfriend. I’'ll likely see her in the library again. What should I do? Bear in mind i’m not interested in her anymore, the unfaithfulness is a huge turnoff.

26

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Dude, move on. The chick you were talking to is dumb. It is obvious you were trying to ask you out and she wasn’t grown up enough to tell you right away. [/quote]

I disagree. Most women play the margins. She was establishing him as a Plan B or at least a Beta Orbiter.

I would reply with a text exactly like this:

“Oh shit, I didn’t know you had a bf. My intentions were not remotely honorable because I found you beautiful and sexy and I totally wanted to wine you and dine you. That said, I a gentleman and never poach a man’s gf. I might, however, check back in about 3 months. ;-)”[/quote]

This.

And do more deadlifts.

27

[quote]LiftHeavy360 wrote:
texted her to clarify and she was indeed talking about her boyfriend. I’'ll likely see her in the library again. What should I do? Bear in mind i’m not interested in her anymore, the unfaithfulness is a huge turnoff.[/quote]

You serious? Move on. Fuhgetabuter

28

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Gotta be cocky in situations like that, OP. Cocky with class.[/quote]

Exactly,

Play it off like it’s no big deal, make her think she is missing something, she’ll come around.

I’ve been blown off before, big whup. Move on down the road.

Met a girl one night at the club, short petite chick, total spinner and smoking hot. I tossed her my number and told her to call me if she ever got bored and needed something to do. I left it at that.

She didn’t call, oh well, I thought to my self.

A few weeks later I see her out again, I am with some friends and a girl that I would fuck for sport. She comes up and starts talking to me. Told me she felt bad getting my number and having a boy friend.

Gave her my number again, basically told her this was her last chance, she’d either use it or loose, she wouldn’t get it again.

She called me the next day. We hung out for a while, never got serious but she called a lot when she was bored, usually around closing time.

Show up, knock her down, and send her out the door before daylight. This went on for about a year.

Then she got physco clingy,

29

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Just googled it. You’re a liar. It was neither interesting nor worth googling. Could be the terrible article I read from breitbart.com that had absolutely zero substance or, ya know, facts to back up their claims, but this just seems like some made up bologna.

I’m interested to hear your take/experience with it, though[/quote]

This post is going to piss people off:

The premise of the topic is that men are checking out from women today. I agree with some points, mainly that [young] women are increasingly becoming unapproachable. I’ve personally noticed a major rise in a sense of entitlement among younger women. Even when I was in my late teens I feel like women were more respectful towards men than today. As recently as June, the last girl I asked out on a date, explained to me how she was above working a part time job… How could any real man be attracted to a woman like that beyond looks? Basically, what a man has to do to meet women today is lie (eg, tell them what they want to hear). Not many people will admit it though. I’m personally not comfortable doing that to meet someone.

And then there is the other side of the issue, men becoming more passive and not standing for anything. It drives me nuts that it is a liability to be a man today. I think porn and sexual addiction is a big contributor to this, but also the amount of testosterone inhibiting chemicals that are in the environment in the western world (plastics, birth control, etc). My parents were born in the early 1950’s so I was raised with a more traditional outlook on what it means to be a man: strength, independence, the provider, the protector, and that is how I see myself.

I feel like [young] men today are more “goofy”, in the sense that they are not to be taken seriously - to use an analogy they are like leaves wondering in the wind through life. Where are the men that stand for something, that act with a purpose, that have a drive to do more than drink esoteric hipster beer and discuss micro aggressions or take selfies?

The point is, if a woman strung me along like that I would have just written her off as a loser, because a real women (in my eyes) would have had the decency to say she was taken. And I cant tell you how many married and taken girls hit on or flirt with me compared to single women…

30

I basically agree with most of your points Aero. I think the entitlement mentality is more a generational thing than a gender thing, but that’s about the only thing I disagree with. Strange times we live in.

32

That girl just lacks the social skills to politely but frankly decline. This happens a lot. She doesn’t want to be rude, so she’ll make up excuses, invent a boyfriend, or friend-zone you. I hate to admit it, but I did this quite a bit, mostly because I didn’t know how to honestly communicate in a nice way. Don’t take it personally. You gave a perfectly nice offer, and the little joke about Starbucks was funny. She’s just not interested for whatever reason. She might have a crush on somebody else right now. It can be that simple.

If she were really interested when you suggested coffee, she would have said she was working, but was free on Thursday or whenever. And if she really has a boyfriend, she should have brought that up right out of the box when you asked for her number. She could have easily said, “Thanks, and I would but I’m dating someone right now.”

33

I do think it has a lot to do with maturity as well. Kids are babied so much these days. How can we really expect a 18-22 year old to just magically grow up all of a sudden?

34

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Dude, move on. The chick you were talking to is dumb. It is obvious you were trying to ask you out and she wasn’t grown up enough to tell you right away. [/quote]

I disagree. Most women play the margins. She was establishing him as a Plan B or at least a Beta Orbiter.

I would reply with a text exactly like this:

“Oh shit, I didn’t know you had a bf. My intentions were not remotely honorable because I found you beautiful and sexy and I totally wanted to wine you and dine you. That said, I a gentleman and never poach a man’s gf. I might, however, check back in about 3 months. ;-)”[/quote]

I think this is kind of a weak reply, but I never get laid so what do I know. It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

Not weak at all. You flatter the girl in a non-psycho manner. You tell the girl you were (WERE) interested and have zero interest in being a Beta-orbiter. And it establishes you as a man of honor by refusing to poach.

Of course, you then become Plan B and probably end up hooking up months or years later.

This worked for me multiple times.

Most notably, I did this my freshman year, first semester, of college. She had a HS boyfriend. I stopped my approach, walked away, with a “damn I don’t blame him for wanting a long distance romance. I strongly believe in relationships and don’t want to interfere.” Didn’t ask for a number or anything, just walked away.

I then went off to war, came back years later, her senior year, end of school, ran into her at a end-of-school party.

She said she had been thinking about me for FIVE YEARS and so we hooked up after about 5 minutes. Had great sex all weekend, then she went off to where ever she was from.

Play the long game, my friend.

35

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I hate to admit it, but I did this quite a bit, mostly because I didn’t know how to honestly communicate in a nice way. [/quote]

I don’t doubt you left a trail of broken Mormon boys hearts from one end of the BYU campus to the other.

36

As a female, reading through your first chain of text correspondence, my thoughts:

  • You didn’t do anything “wrong”. She was dicking you around from the jump = evasive answers + not offering any time/day. Women will engage and clear their calendars when they’re into you. She probably gave you her # to feed her ego (seems like she prolonged the text convo long enough to confirm that you were indeed asking her out; she got her validation and dipped)

  • But for your future endeavours… Your tone comes across very (too?) enthusiastic. You already took the step to ask for her number, so she knew already knew you were into her. The initial text messages could have been short and direct “Hi, its Jack from the library. May I take you out for coffee on ?”.

And def don’t follow up if a girl leaves you hanging. (ie. you told her to let you know if / when she has time for coffee, so it was her move next)

37

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Just googled it. You’re a liar. It was neither interesting nor worth googling. Could be the terrible article I read from breitbart.com that had absolutely zero substance or, ya know, facts to back up their claims, but this just seems like some made up bologna.

I’m interested to hear your take/experience with it, though[/quote]

This post is going to piss people off:

The premise of the topic is that men are checking out from women today. I agree with some points, mainly that [young] women are increasingly becoming unapproachable.[/quote]

I can’t speak for you, but, before I got married, when I was in the Air Force and shortly after my separation, when I was in college, this was not my experience. I know you’re younger than me, but we’re within a decade if my memory serves me correctly (you’re about 25, right?). There have ALWAYS been those girls who think their shit don’t stink. But for the most girls aren’t those girls.

Another problem is your use of generalizations. I used to do the same thing - extrapolate my own limited experiences or that of some overly vague article I found interesting. Problem was there isn’t any substance from which to draw meaningful inference. I’m not trying to be critical or pick a fight with you - just an observation.

[quote]
I’ve personally noticed a major rise in a sense of entitlement among younger women. Even when I was in my late teens I feel like women were more respectful towards men than today. As recently as June, the last girl I asked out on a date, explained to me how she was above working a part time job[/quote]

She sounds like an entitled jerk. I don’t blame you for being irritated at this if this is a common occurrence for you.

[quote]
How could any real man be attracted to a woman like that beyond looks? Basically, what a man has to do to meet women today is lie (eg, tell them what they want to hear). Not many people will admit it though. I’m personally not comfortable doing that to meet someone.[/quote]

That’s commendable. I don’t think it’s inherently true; but I don’t think I’d be comfortable with that either. I’m positive there are girls out there who are not like this. Probably more who aren’t than are. The problem might be, again, where you’re looking. Bitches congregate around bitches…

What I mean by “I don’t think it’s inherently true” is referencing what you said about misrepresenting oneself to be attractive to a woman. It might serve a purpose if your goal is to bang her and move on, but long term respectful intimate relationship will be impossible.

[quote]
And then there is the other side of the issue, men becoming more passive and not standing for anything. It drives me nuts that it is a liability to be a man today. I think porn and sexual addiction is a big contributor to this, but also the amount of testosterone inhibiting chemicals that are in the environment in the western world (plastics, birth control, etc). My parents were born in the early 1950’s so I was raised with a more traditional outlook on what it means to be a man: strength, independence, the provider, the protector, and that is how I see myself.[/quote]

Again, I can’t agree or disagree with anything in this paragraph as it lacks any substantial information and is littered with conjecture and generalizations.

I will ask you if you can elaborate more on what you mean by it is a liability to be a man today. The article I read about this “sexodus” touched on this but they didn’t provide any real substance to back up this claim, either. In my experience, this is a bullshit narrative that has no basis in reality (think bigger picture).

[quote]
I feel like [young] men today are more “goofy”, in the sense that they are not to be taken seriously - to use an analogy they are like leaves wondering in the wind through life. Where are the men that stand for something, that act with a purpose, that have a drive to do more than drink esoteric hipster beer and discuss micro aggressions or take selfies?[/quote]

I’m curious if you have any insight regarding prevalence of this among specific age groups? I’m in my early 30’s, tend to fill leadership rolls, and generally exhibit a lot of the characteristics you’re stating are missing from society. I’d be willing to be a lot of the posters here probably exhibit natural leadership characteristics whether they’re aware of it or not.

My point with this is, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing - too many chiefs and not enough indians tends to produce bad results. I’m wondering what the ratio might be and if it’s in line with historical ratios (chiefs:indians)

[quote]
The point is, if a woman strung me along like that I would have just written her off as a loser, because a real women (in my eyes) would have had the decency to say she was taken. And I cant tell you how many married and taken girls hit on or flirt with me compared to single women…[/quote]

I tend to agree. I might have called her a loser (sour grapes) when I was younger (probably about your age) and moved on as well, but, if I were single and dating, I don’t know if I would necessarily leap that conclusion and make a judgement on her character that quickly.

I wish you could tell me how many married and taken girls hit on you or flirt with you compared to single women. That’d be interesting.

38

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Just googled it. You’re a liar. It was neither interesting nor worth googling. Could be the terrible article I read from breitbart.com that had absolutely zero substance or, ya know, facts to back up their claims, but this just seems like some made up bologna.

I’m interested to hear your take/experience with it, though[/quote]

This post is going to piss people off:

The premise of the topic is that men are checking out from women today. I agree with some points, mainly that [young] women are increasingly becoming unapproachable.[/quote]

I can’t speak for you, but, before I got married, when I was in the Air Force and shortly after my separation, when I was in college, this was not my experience. I know you’re younger than me, but we’re within a decade if my memory serves me correctly (you’re about 25, right?). There have ALWAYS been those girls who think their shit don’t stink. But for the most girls aren’t those girls.

Another problem is your use of generalizations. I used to do the same thing - extrapolate my own limited experiences or that of some overly vague article I found interesting. Problem was there isn’t any substance from which to draw meaningful inference. I’m not trying to be critical or pick a fight with you - just an observation.

[quote]
I’ve personally noticed a major rise in a sense of entitlement among younger women. Even when I was in my late teens I feel like women were more respectful towards men than today. As recently as June, the last girl I asked out on a date, explained to me how she was above working a part time job[/quote]

She sounds like an entitled jerk. I don’t blame you for being irritated at this if this is a common occurrence for you.

[quote]
How could any real man be attracted to a woman like that beyond looks? Basically, what a man has to do to meet women today is lie (eg, tell them what they want to hear). Not many people will admit it though. I’m personally not comfortable doing that to meet someone.[/quote]

That’s commendable. I don’t think it’s inherently true; but I don’t think I’d be comfortable with that either. I’m positive there are girls out there who are not like this. Probably more who aren’t than are. The problem might be, again, where you’re looking. Bitches congregate around bitches…

What I mean by “I don’t think it’s inherently true” is referencing what you said about misrepresenting oneself to be attractive to a woman. It might serve a purpose if your goal is to bang her and move on, but long term respectful intimate relationship will be impossible.

[quote]
And then there is the other side of the issue, men becoming more passive and not standing for anything. It drives me nuts that it is a liability to be a man today. I think porn and sexual addiction is a big contributor to this, but also the amount of testosterone inhibiting chemicals that are in the environment in the western world (plastics, birth control, etc). My parents were born in the early 1950’s so I was raised with a more traditional outlook on what it means to be a man: strength, independence, the provider, the protector, and that is how I see myself.[/quote]

Again, I can’t agree or disagree with anything in this paragraph as it lacks any substantial information and is littered with conjecture and generalizations.

I will ask you if you can elaborate more on what you mean by it is a liability to be a man today. The article I read about this “sexodus” touched on this but they didn’t provide any real substance to back up this claim, either. In my experience, this is a bullshit narrative that has no basis in reality (think bigger picture).

[quote]
I feel like [young] men today are more “goofy”, in the sense that they are not to be taken seriously - to use an analogy they are like leaves wondering in the wind through life. Where are the men that stand for something, that act with a purpose, that have a drive to do more than drink esoteric hipster beer and discuss micro aggressions or take selfies?[/quote]

I’m curious if you have any insight regarding prevalence of this among specific age groups? I’m in my early 30’s, tend to fill leadership rolls, and generally exhibit a lot of the characteristics you’re stating are missing from society. I’d be willing to be a lot of the posters here probably exhibit natural leadership characteristics whether they’re aware of it or not.

My point with this is, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing - too many chiefs and not enough indians tends to produce bad results. I’m wondering what the ratio might be and if it’s in line with historical ratios (chiefs:indians)

[quote]
The point is, if a woman strung me along like that I would have just written her off as a loser, because a real women (in my eyes) would have had the decency to say she was taken. And I cant tell you how many married and taken girls hit on or flirt with me compared to single women…[/quote]

I tend to agree. I might have called her a loser (sour grapes) when I was younger (probably about your age) and moved on as well, but, if I were single and dating, I don’t know if I would necessarily leap that conclusion and make a judgement on her character that quickly.

I wish you could tell me how many married and taken girls hit on you or flirt with you compared to single women. That’d be interesting.[/quote]

Oh crap this is a long reply, alright ill try to number my remarks:

  1. What I was trying to say is that entitlement is more common today. I remember when I was 18-19 women were generally nicer. A lot has changed in the last 7 years. That was just an example, Ive been on many similar dates. It is getting annoying.

2)If you are looking for something beyond my anecdotes, I am not sure what to tell you. I don’t meticulously record the details of my life so what you are going to get is general statements. I don’t think citing sources makes sense for this kind of conversation either, honestly, because how would one quantify observing a sense of entitlement unless a researcher were to conduct a series of surveys asking whether or not men believed this answer was true. I just notice most of the women I meet tend to expect a level of respect they didn’t earn.

3)By liability of being a man, I mean it is much more beneficial to act passive (say you have a problem at work, you cant confront to person directly and resolve it, you go to your boss, which I look at as running to mommy), then to be assertive (doing this might get you written up). Another example, this guy was being a huge dickhead to this waitress at a coffee shop I was sitting in, so I told him to stop acting like one. He literally did not know what to do or say, his wife at their quietly, and the kids behind me were like “Oh shit.” People don’t stand up for eachother today. Yes, the politically correct action would have been to approach the guy nicely and ask him if he was ok, or be as polite as possible. Fuck that, I enjoyed embarrassing him and he walked out like a little bitch and the woman thanked me for saying something to this guy who was completely out of line. How many guys will step up to the plate today? Not many, most people would rather watch or film it on their phone and put it on facebook/instagram.

  1. In your second last comment, did you do exactly what you accused me of - asserting generalizations based on your experience? Regardless, I think this is more common among people my age. I don’t know too many people 10 years older than me though. I wasn’t talking about leadership though, I was talking about being a wimp. You can not be a leader and still be a strong person.

  2. As far as women who are married or taken hitting on me vs my success with single women, Id say it is a very high ratio. It is high enough where I have gone home depressed wondering if something is wrong with me or there is something about me I don’t notice. I don’t even entertain women who do that anymore and I stopped going out because of it. I cant tell you the numbe of women I have gone out with, danced with, flirted with, only to find they have a boyfriend. Then they give you this line of bullshit “Oh youll find someone someday” and I reply “Dump your boyfriend then and meet me this Friday.” but what I really want to say is “I would have been better off watching porn than spending the time with you.”

EDIt:
I don’t know why the keyboard doesn’t work on this computer. Deal with the typos.

39

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
It comes off as you are apologizing for something she did.

[/quote]

He is talking to a woman…

I mean this is marriage 101 right here. Choose your battles, and lose with great speed when you choose not to fight “this one” out. [/quote]

It is pretty sad and upsetting that you are 100% correct. Big surprised why we have a sexodus today. It is an interesting topic worth googling.
[/quote]

Just googled it. You’re a liar. It was neither interesting nor worth googling. Could be the terrible article I read from breitbart.com that had absolutely zero substance or, ya know, facts to back up their claims, but this just seems like some made up bologna.

I’m interested to hear your take/experience with it, though[/quote]

This post is going to piss people off:

The premise of the topic is that men are checking out from women today. I agree with some points, mainly that [young] women are increasingly becoming unapproachable.[/quote]

I can’t speak for you, but, before I got married, when I was in the Air Force and shortly after my separation, when I was in college, this was not my experience. I know you’re younger than me, but we’re within a decade if my memory serves me correctly (you’re about 25, right?). There have ALWAYS been those girls who think their shit don’t stink. But for the most girls aren’t those girls.

Another problem is your use of generalizations. I used to do the same thing - extrapolate my own limited experiences or that of some overly vague article I found interesting. Problem was there isn’t any substance from which to draw meaningful inference. I’m not trying to be critical or pick a fight with you - just an observation.

[quote]
I’ve personally noticed a major rise in a sense of entitlement among younger women. Even when I was in my late teens I feel like women were more respectful towards men than today. As recently as June, the last girl I asked out on a date, explained to me how she was above working a part time job[/quote]

She sounds like an entitled jerk. I don’t blame you for being irritated at this if this is a common occurrence for you.

[quote]
How could any real man be attracted to a woman like that beyond looks? Basically, what a man has to do to meet women today is lie (eg, tell them what they want to hear). Not many people will admit it though. I’m personally not comfortable doing that to meet someone.[/quote]

That’s commendable. I don’t think it’s inherently true; but I don’t think I’d be comfortable with that either. I’m positive there are girls out there who are not like this. Probably more who aren’t than are. The problem might be, again, where you’re looking. Bitches congregate around bitches…

What I mean by “I don’t think it’s inherently true” is referencing what you said about misrepresenting oneself to be attractive to a woman. It might serve a purpose if your goal is to bang her and move on, but long term respectful intimate relationship will be impossible.

[quote]
And then there is the other side of the issue, men becoming more passive and not standing for anything. It drives me nuts that it is a liability to be a man today. I think porn and sexual addiction is a big contributor to this, but also the amount of testosterone inhibiting chemicals that are in the environment in the western world (plastics, birth control, etc). My parents were born in the early 1950’s so I was raised with a more traditional outlook on what it means to be a man: strength, independence, the provider, the protector, and that is how I see myself.[/quote]

Again, I can’t agree or disagree with anything in this paragraph as it lacks any substantial information and is littered with conjecture and generalizations.

I will ask you if you can elaborate more on what you mean by it is a liability to be a man today. The article I read about this “sexodus” touched on this but they didn’t provide any real substance to back up this claim, either. In my experience, this is a bullshit narrative that has no basis in reality (think bigger picture).

[quote]
I feel like [young] men today are more “goofy”, in the sense that they are not to be taken seriously - to use an analogy they are like leaves wondering in the wind through life. Where are the men that stand for something, that act with a purpose, that have a drive to do more than drink esoteric hipster beer and discuss micro aggressions or take selfies?[/quote]

I’m curious if you have any insight regarding prevalence of this among specific age groups? I’m in my early 30’s, tend to fill leadership rolls, and generally exhibit a lot of the characteristics you’re stating are missing from society. I’d be willing to be a lot of the posters here probably exhibit natural leadership characteristics whether they’re aware of it or not.

My point with this is, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing - too many chiefs and not enough indians tends to produce bad results. I’m wondering what the ratio might be and if it’s in line with historical ratios (chiefs:indians)

[quote]
The point is, if a woman strung me along like that I would have just written her off as a loser, because a real women (in my eyes) would have had the decency to say she was taken. And I cant tell you how many married and taken girls hit on or flirt with me compared to single women…[/quote]

I tend to agree. I might have called her a loser (sour grapes) when I was younger (probably about your age) and moved on as well, but, if I were single and dating, I don’t know if I would necessarily leap that conclusion and make a judgement on her character that quickly.

I wish you could tell me how many married and taken girls hit on you or flirt with you compared to single women. That’d be interesting.[/quote]

Oh crap this is a long reply, alright ill try to number my remarks:

  1. What I was trying to say is that entitlement is more common today. I remember when I was 18-19 women were generally nicer. A lot has changed in the last 7 years. That was just an example, Ive been on many similar dates. It is getting annoying.

2)If you are looking for something beyond my anecdotes, I am not sure what to tell you. I don’t meticulously record the details of my life so what you are going to get is general statements. I don’t think citing sources makes sense for this kind of conversation either, honestly, because how would one quantify observing a sense of entitlement unless a researcher were to conduct a series of surveys asking whether or not men believed this answer was true. I just notice most of the women I meet tend to expect a level of respect they didn’t earn.

3)By liability of being a man, I mean it is much more beneficial to act passive (say you have a problem at work, you cant confront to person directly and resolve it, you go to your boss, which I look at as running to mommy), then to be assertive (doing this might get you written up). Another example, this guy was being a huge dickhead to this waitress at a coffee shop I was sitting in, so I told him to stop acting like one. He literally did not know what to do or say, his wife at their quietly, and the kids behind me were like “Oh shit.” People don’t stand up for eachother today. Yes, the politically correct action would have been to approach the guy nicely and ask him if he was ok, or be as polite as possible. Fuck that, I enjoyed embarrassing him and he walked out like a little bitch and the woman thanked me for saying something to this guy who was completely out of line. How many guys will step up to the plate today? Not many, most people would rather watch or film it on their phone and put it on facebook/instagram.

  1. In your second last comment, did you do exactly what you accused me of - asserting generalizations based on your experience? Regardless, I think this is more common among people my age. I don’t know too many people 10 years older than me though. I wasn’t talking about leadership though, I was talking about being a wimp. You can not be a leader and still be a strong person.

  2. As far as women who are married or taken hitting on me vs my success with single women, Id say it is a very high ratio. It is high enough where I have gone home depressed wondering if something is wrong with me or there is something about me I don’t notice. I don’t even entertain women who do that anymore and I stopped going out because of it. I cant tell you the numbe of women I have gone out with, danced with, flirted with, only to find they have a boyfriend. Then they give you this line of bullshit “Oh youll find someone someday” and I reply “Dump your boyfriend then and meet me this Friday.” but what I really want to say is “I would have been better off watching porn than spending the time with you.”

EDIt:
I don’t know why the keyboard doesn’t work on this computer. Deal with the typos.[/quote]

1.) Weeding through the shitty dates is exhausting. It can be fun or it can suck but that depends on your expectations.

2.) I tend to agree. I’ve met my share of women who expect to be treated like they’re special unique creatures. It’s ridiculous. My wife is not such a creature, which, ironically, makes her a special unique creature :slight_smile:

3.) I disagree. It is not beneficial to act passively if your goal is to improve your situation. I get what you’re saying, and I don’t think one should act like a douche, but acting assertively doesn’t necessarily mean acting aggressively; they can be one in the same in situations that call for it. You get it though.

4.) I probably did. Just because I point it out doesn’t make me immune from doing it. I try not to but damn it’s easy to do :slight_smile: … I’m not sure what you’re saying regarding “not being a leader and still be a strong person”

5.) Maybe the single ladies (all the single ladies) are just playing stupid fucking games.

Thanks for the replies man - I’d like to dive deeper into some of your replies but don’t have the time.

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
I hate to admit it, but I did this quite a bit, mostly because I didn’t know how to honestly communicate in a nice way. [/quote]

I don’t doubt you left a trail of broken Mormon boys hearts from one end of the BYU campus to the other.[/quote]

Wel… Not so much. There was an awkward year where I cut my hair off so I looked like Alice from Dilbert, then there was some trouble with my contacts so I had to wear some really thick glasses, then there was the unfortunate spiral perm… :slight_smile:

It’s pretty hard to be a big fish in that pond. It’s a huge school with a lot of really beautiful women. One of the girls I was close friends with had been a runner up in the Miss California pageant. Pic of me from back then with my BIG late 1980’s hair and boxy sweater. At least I never went through a Flock of Seagulls phase.