It’s hard to tell, but you might be hyperextending (finishing with the back rather than the glutes) at the top of your rack pull. Just watch out for this.
For your back squat, you might fiddle with your foot positioning - try to get your unloaded squat so you can sit almost straight down (still unlock at hips first, but then very straight descent). Personally, I had to go a bit wider and add major toe flare to get this happening, but doing this my torso is very upright in the squat.
[quote] Interestingly enough, I have similar numbers to you on squats vs deads. Just did 325x3 on sumo deads today. My squat is around 255x3, but I seem to shift forward a ton as well. Back when I was stronger, I was working out with around 315 for 10x3 on conventional DLs and 275 for 10x3 on back squats. My 1rm was 385 on deads and 295 for squats.
Supposedly, this comes from having long limbs compared to torso. I never thought this was the case because I’m pretty short (5’6"), but some tests and observations confirm this.
Check out Thibs’ section here.
And the squat section on this article.
I fail both wall squat tests (though just barely for Thibs). Try these, they opened my eyes to switching over to front squatting and Bulgarian squats.
Once again, great progress. I looked at your numbers and thought “Damn, 7 months? It seemingly took me forever to put those numbers up.”[/quote]
You need to understand what you are saying here. All of this is can be accurate, or can be comepletely bad advice. This info is really only of concern for bodybuilders who think squats are an effective quad exercise. That is the only thing being discussed in those articles, how effective the squat is as a quad exercise.
I dont think this is what Adam is concerned with. I think he is trying to build strength and get big, without “specializing” in anything. For that, the squat is a perfect exercise. Keep in mind too, for building strength, all those test you talk about failing, dont really matter. Look at and squatter from Westside Barbell or EliteFTS. Now, some do have better builds for it, but they squat to squat heavy weight, not to target the quads.
If you are falling forward in your squat, its most likely due to a weak posterior chain. Work on strengthening that, and your squat will go up. I used to be one of those guys who thought I wasnt built for squatting, until I took it serious and really really worked at it. Now, I can squat much more than I thought I could because of people telling me about my build, and I dont see an end in sight for the amount of weight I am going to be adding to it anytime soon.
[quote]smithers584 wrote:
You need to understand what you are saying here. All of this is can be accurate, or can be comepletely bad advice. This info is really only of concern for bodybuilders who think squats are an effective quad exercise. That is the only thing being discussed in those articles, how effective the squat is as a quad exercise.
I dont think this is what Adam is concerned with. I think he is trying to build strength and get big, without “specializing” in anything. For that, the squat is a perfect exercise. Keep in mind too, for building strength, all those test you talk about failing, dont really matter. Look at and squatter from Westside Barbell or EliteFTS. Now, some do have better builds for it, but they squat to squat heavy weight, not to target the quads.
If you are falling forward in your squat, its most likely due to a weak posterior chain. Work on strengthening that, and your squat will go up. I used to be one of those guys who thought I wasnt built for squatting, until I took it serious and really really worked at it. Now, I can squat much more than I thought I could because of people telling me about my build, and I dont see an end in sight for the amount of weight I am going to be adding to it anytime soon.[/quote]
I am just posting the information to give a perspective, not giving specific advice. It is each person’s responsibility to read the information and decide whether or not it pertains to him/her. Yes, I understand it’s a quads thing in all the articles. It all depends on the goals, and since I’m not Adam, I’m just posting the info, food for thought. I assume he’s smart enough to look at it and evaluate whether or not it pertains to him, therefore I’m not worried about “giving bad advice”.
I admit I could be off on the whole leaning forward/hips rising faster than shoulders thing. Could be posterior chain, could be limb lengths combined with poor choice of stance. In this instance, I’m suggesting trying out a few different stances. Note, I am not saying to change to a given stance, but merely to experiment.
Personally, I’ve got deads, RDLs, SLRDLs, and back squats for the posterior chain. For quad development, I’ll take front squats, as the articles above show.
Thanks guys. I’ve been having a guy in the gym help me out and he think it’s a hip flexer/lower back problem. If you watch in the video, I keep my back arched until when I get into the whole I completely lose it. I do the same thing with just body squats so it definitely must be a flexibility issue. I’m gonna be doing a lot of Bulgarian Split squat, reverse hypers, and glute ham raises for a little while and realy just get down the fucking basics. I thought I’d just be able to start lifting being a somewhat atheletic guy and not have to worry about anything like this but I was wrong.
[b]4/15/2010
Deload[/b]
BB Complex (bar doesn’t leave hands or touch ground until everything is done)
(6 reps of each)
Bentover Row
Power Clean
Front Squat
Push Press
Back Squat
RDL
Did 2 sets with 65 and 2 sets with 85. Was actually sweating a lot
Bulgarian Split Squats
Supset Set Bench Press / Bentover Row
4 sets
Pullups
1 set
Farmers Walk
got up to 150lbs for a small lap. fucking hard
-Adam
Adam, check out this video of Jim Wendler:
You see how far back his hips are moving, and how his shins stay pretty perpindicular to the floor? You will also see his torso rotate forward a bit as his hips move back and down, almost like his rib cage will touch his quads at parallel, all while keeping his chest up.
I dont think its a flexibility issue (though it may be), I just really think you need to spend some time doing squats with light weight and figuring your form out.
Heres the thing, and this is ment to be constructive:
You are only 180 ish lbs and I think I remember you saying you are over 6’ tall, so that is relatively small. You know this, that is why you are bulking!
You havent been training very long.
You want to lift more than you can right now. This is natural.
The problem isnt flexibility (though increasing it will help), its just that you are not good at squatting, yet! You are still a beginner and want to lift more, but you need to go through the process, instead of trying to pinpoint problems. Fact is, you are just not strong enough yet to squat more weight than you are trying to hit right now. But thats ok, you will be someday, thats the point of training!
Just understand that you are not quite ready to lift the weight that you want, but after building some more strength and size and practicing your lifts, you will be!
Just out of curiousity, maybe you should try taking a video of you squatting with 135 on your back and letting us see that to check your form there.
[quote]boomerlu wrote:
I don’t usually follow logs. I have a few comments though…
Good DL numbers, bad squat numbers. You are shifting forward on the squat. Don’t know how good your hip mobility is, or if that’s the reason you are shifting forward. If it’s b/c of your limb lengths, consider front squats or Bulgarian squats.
Your DL lockout is a bit weird. It looks like you are hitching (bending your knees) on your 320 and rep 2 of 315x3. Don’t know what advice to give other than to not hitch? I recall this is caused by weak glutes. Also, it seems you changed from double overhand grip to mixed grip (btw, good grip strength!). My personal preference is to do deads double overhand and use straps if necessary. Not going to be competing in any powerlifting competitions, so better to be a bit safer (the asymmetrical mixed grip feels weird).
On partial movements (rack pulls, top half squats), whenever I do such movements, it’s always to go really heavy and activate the CNS. I will typically go OVER my corresponding 1rm (i.e. squat 1rm if doing THSquats) in these and do them for clusters (as in I, Bodybuilder) BEFORE the main movement. I don’t see much of a point in doing these with the lower weights you are doing.
On your standing overhead press, you extend very far backwards. Try using a split stance as it gives you more stability.
For whatever pain you’re feeling, try foam rolling. It may get worse for the next 2 days, but then it will get better.
Anyways, you’re making good progress. Keep it up.[/quote]
hey what’s up, wanted to say a couple things. the shifting forward on the squat, well there are multiple reasons for shifting forward but more than likely it’s because of the lack of hamstring and glute strength and concentrating more on your quads. also try to keep your knees out, you can see them cave in a little even from a side view(get a band and do some knee outs). flexibility is not a problem, otherwise you would not be able to hit the depths that you are hitting. but as for wanting more flexibility like someone said, i don’t know about that, i don’t think it will help at all don’t worry about flexibility, you are plenty flexible from the vids. on the rack pulls just like your deads, you are not sitting back into the lift, you are still straight legging it, again a sign of lacking hamstring/glute strength is not being able to sit back. i did not see any ghr’s or direct hamstring acc work, you need to do ghr’s atleast twice a week, really try to work on hamstring/glute strength not fucking trap strength.
i have read that dave tate article before, doing high box squats actually sitting on the box and sitting back on the box will help quite a bit…as long as they are done correctly. but overall the higher the box the easier it will be to sit back. also on the squatting, take a deep breath in your stomach before going down and continuosly try to push out your stomach on the way down.
btw- if you are making progress, don’t change shit(except form,keep working on form), just keep doin what ur doin. but def add in ghr’s. wtf is up the ibb shennanigans?
If you want a brainiac analysis of the squat, DL, bench, overhead press, and power clean, check out Mark Rippetoe. I’m only now beginning to discover his information, but it’s pure gold for me as I’m highly analytical.
Do a youtube search on his name for a sample.
Thanks for the advice everyone, I like the fact that the majority of people on this sight enjoy making everyone else better. I know what needs to be done, it’s just a matter of doing what I know lol. I’m practicing on it a lot so I guess it’s just a matter of time before I get everything dialed in
Back from my deload! Damn do they suck 
[b]4/16/2010
Back[/b]
PRs: 3
Rack Pulls
335 X 3
380 X 2 PR
(had problems with grip. had to chalk up but was fine after)
Deadlift
245 X 3
275 X 2
295 X 1
315 X 5 PR
315 X 1
“315 X 5”
Neutral Grip Pullups
BW X 2
30 X 1
50 X 4 PR
40 X 4
30 X 4
Cluster Set: BW X 8
BW X 3
DB Rows
(no more body swing in these. full stretch and controlled)
65 X 7
60 X 8
60 X 7
55 X 8
NOTES: felt great 1 session back after deload. DB rows felt much better and I dropped the weight 40 lbs. I was ego lifting before and couldn’t feel it much in my back but the mmc was much better today, hurt a lot more too
[b]4/17/2010
Chest/Biceps[/b]
PRs: 1
Flat Bench
205 X 3
185 X 5
185 X 4
185 X 3
Incline DB Press
75 X 5 PR
75 X 3
65 X 8
65 X 6
Flat DB Press
60 X 6
60 X 5
60 X 5
Incline Hammer Curls
45 X 4
40 X 6
40 X 6
35 X 5
35 X 5
Hammer Strength Curls
55 X 8
55 X 7
45 X 10
NOTES: didn’t get as much sleep last night as usual, and had a nast Chemistry 2 lab right before. luckily I was training with my buddy who also knows how to bust some ass so we motivated each other a lot. I’m thinking of switching over to incline BB bench because I’ve been stuck on flat for a while now. I’m going to if I don’t get 205 X 4 next time
[b]4/19/2010
Legs[/b]
PRs: 1
Power Cleans
115 X 3
135 X 3
145 X 2 PR
Squats
135 X 3
155 X 3
185 X 3
215 X 3
225 X 2
RDL
135 X 5
185 X 10
205 X 10
205 X 7
205 X 5 X 3
Romanian Split Squats
45 X 6
85 X 4
100 X 3
110 X 6
NOTES: I don’t know what the fuck I’m doing right now. This reminds me of golf when your focusing SO MUCH on how to swing that you completely wiff the ball. I went in thinking I wasn’t gonna do any squats and said fuck it and started doing them. 215 went up very easy but 225 was hard for some reason. Gonna go back to doing what I did when I first started cause I was making gains then. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, why didn’t I keep that in mind?
Just gonna keep working on form, I should eventually get it nailed down right?
marcy projects…marcy son, what! ha, anyway, going from the pics looks like you have made some nice progress, good stuff. your dead form looks a lot better btw. as far as the ain’t broke don’t fix it thing, i’m pretty sure i covered that in my last post haha, but exactly, if shit was working keep going with it, don’t get fancy or run before you walk per se. and don’t be afraid to take a step back sometime and lower the weight and work on form, to many people start “ego lifting,” i’m sure we’ve all done it, i know i have, but if you can put your ego aside sometimes and work on the little things i’m sure your gains will be even better.
goin from ashy to classy!
2-Scoops - First of all, you better check your tone. I’m Leonard Washington, I don’t get butt naked for nobody!
haha, NOOOOO! that should have been my log title! “From Ashy, to Classy (w/ vids)” haha, but yeah that’s what I plan on doing. you can still get a tough work out in with somewhat light weight. I’ll keep working on it and get some vids of my warmup set, up to my working sets and see how form changes as the weight gets heavier
thanks man
[b]4/20/2010
Shoulder/Triceps[/b]
PRs: 1
Seated DB Shoulder Press
65 X 10 PR
65 X 4
60 X 5
55 X 5 X 2
“65 X 10”
Seated Laterals
(to front)
25 X 20
25 X 15
25 X 10
(to side)
15 X 10 X 2
15 X 9
CGBP
185 X 3 X 2
fuck this
Skullcrushers
80 X 4
75 X 6
75 X 5 X 3
NOTES: hell yeah, i was stuck at 65 X 7 for the longest time before my deload. changed grip on skulls and felt much better on the wrist. gonna hit a PR on those soon after stalling for a long time
[b]4/21/2010
Back[/b]
PRs: 2
Rack Pulls (from knee)
335 X 3
380 X 3 PR
Deadlift
225 X 5
275 X 3
295 X 1
325 X 3 PR
275 X 5
Neutral-Grip Pullups
BW X 3
25 X 3
45 X 3
25 X 4
25 X 3
25 X 3
DB Rows
65 X 10 X 2
65 X 8
65 X 12 (used body for momentum)
Pulldowns (really slow negatives)
LV 17 X 7
LV 16 X 8
LV 14 X 10
NOTES: couldn’t even budge 315 around 5 weeks ago so I’m really happy with progress right now. I think I’m gonna drop rack pulls next time and see if they actually help or not
[b]4/23/2010
Morning Weight: 182.2[/b] ( 0.9 lbs in 2 weeks)
Feeling a bit leaner, weird
Chest/Biceps
PRs: 2
Bench Press
205 X 2.9 WTF!
Pin Press (do these so I don’t have to worry about having a spotter)
185 X 4
190 X 2
185 X 3
190 X 3 PR
190 X 3
Incline DB Press
75 X 3 PR
65 X 9
65 X 6
65 X 6
Flat DB Press
60 X 5
60 X 6
60 X 5
Incline Hammer Curls
40 X 6
40 X 3
35 X 5 X 2
EZ-Bar Curls
(weight added/side)
10 X 15
20 X 5
15 X 12
15 X 10
NOTES: very pissed off today. felt great going in, thought I would kill everything. need to change something, I don’t know. fuck
[b]4/24/2010
Legs[/b]
PRs: 3
Box Squats
225 X 2
255 X 2 PR
Squats
135 X 3
165 X 3
185 X 3
205 X 1
225 X 2
205 X 2
(was too pissed to keep doing these)
RDL
135 X 10
165 X 10
190 X 10
210 X 10 PR
Leg Press (weight per side)
3 plates X 10
4 plates X 10
4 plates 35 X 10 PR
4 plates X 10
Dropset: 3 plates X 10, 2 plates X 20
Lying Leg Curls
1 set
NOTES: I was seeing stars around the 7th rep on my top set of leg press, fucking hard. drenched in sweat. don’t know what is wrong with squats
I’m thinking of doing a little something for my squats over the next several weeks. I pick a weight that I wouldn’t be able to lift regularly, but I do tophalf squats with it, and then every 1 or 2 sessions I use the same weight for same sets/reps but lower the starting position of the squat one notch. Has anyone heard of this being done?
[b]4/26/2010
Back[/b]
PRs: 2
Deadlift
135 X 5 X 2
185 X 5
225 X 3
275 X 2
305 X 1
325 X 4 PR
325 X 4
Med-Grip Pullups
BW X 7
+15 X 5
+20 X 5
BW X 6
BW X 5
BW X 4
DB Rows
65 X 8
70 X 8
70 X 8
(switched forms)
Dropset: 70 X 5, 60 X 5
Lat Pulldowns
LV 17 X 9 PR
LV 17 X 6
LV 16 X 8
LV 10 X 25
NOTES: switched form on DB rows. stationed myself on a flat bench and completely took out any momentum. touched the ground on every rep and tried to touch my chest for a HUGE stretch, it hurt soo good 
doing those from now on. couldn’t even budge 315 over spring break and did 325 X 4 today, feels great
[quote]ashylarryku wrote:
I’m thinking of doing a little something for my squats over the next several weeks. I pick a weight that I wouldn’t be able to lift regularly, but I do tophalf squats with it, and then every 1 or 2 sessions I use the same weight for same sets/reps but lower the starting position of the squat one notch. Has anyone heard of this being done?[/quote]
this is kind of how i cycled through my squatting about a year ago when i made a lot of my gains(combined with safety bar). for my first cycle i sat on a box about 2" above parallel, then next cycle went about 1" above parallel, then went to a parallel box. then just cycled completely through that again. i mostly try to stick with a parallel box now(unless i’m doing suited work) and just do reverse band work for overload.
[b]4/28/2010
Chest/Biceps[/b]
PRs: 5
Bench Press
195 X 4.9
couldn’t lock out, would have been a nice PR
Pin Press
185 X 5 PR
185 X 3
185 X 3
175 X 3
Incline DB Press
70 X 7 PR
75 X 4 PR
70 X 5
65 X 5
Flat DB Press
60 X 7
60 X 6
60 X 6
EZ Fat-Grip Preacher Curls
(weight per side)
12.5 X 15
15 X 10
15 X 10
17.5 X 10 PR
20 X 6 PR
20 X 5
10 X 15
DB Fat-Grip Preacher Curl
40 X 4
30 X 11
30 X 6
NOTES: friggin ay. great session. did some dips but for some reason those hurt my wrists a ton so no more, so do curls. did curls with the fat grips today though and it felt amazing, no pain at all. gotta order some soon. gonna hit 195 X 5 AT LEAST next time