Good points Berardi! Oh, sorry, DR. Berardi. Heh heh
That’s exactly why I shut up when my professors go on about crap (and believe me, there’s been some buuuullshit said as fact so far). Sure I’ve been reading T-Mag for years but in their eyes I’m an undergrad in 1st year. I’ve got nothing to gain by challenging them.
Besides, i don’t know that many of my fellow students yet and don’t want to get a reputation as ‘the guy who’s always arguing with the lecturers cos he thinks he knows it all’
I try to keep what’s useful and discard what’s not. And get awesome marks. That’s the plan.
The question to ask yourself when you’re sitting in class, in a lecture, etc and you disagree with what’s being said is this:
“Could I reasonably refute this person’s argument - point by point - with scientific studies and or case studies?”
If your answer is no, then you’ve got some learning to do and some experience to gather. Don’t even think about opening your mouth until you can answer yes to the above.
No good ever comes outta sitting back and complaining about, mocking, disrespecting, etc someone whose opinion you diagree with WHILE failing to learn how to refute their arguments.
Take this approach (the well, they’re just wrong and that’s all I have to say about that approach) and you’re a moron. And you’ll likely always be since you’ll be setting habits that lead to a lifetime of unsubstantiated personal beliefs, divorced from reality, supported by your self justifications and rationalizations.
Just to give some perspective on this. I’ve only raised my hand during class to challenge something, like, three times. And I always start with a question.
All other times my mouth is shut.
It’s just more productive to ask after class one-on-one.
[quote]NateN wrote:
I was standing right there after class with your article printed out in my hand. I should have flipped to the part near the end and asked her what she thought of all the benefits listed.
Oddly enough, I had to write a report choosing whether low carb or high carb diets are better for weight loss and defend my position. (Obvious choice I think.) And guess what? I use that Layman et al 2003 study you mention. Found it myself. Go pubmed.
By the way, she didn’t know you had your PhD at that point. (The article I gave her said you were still pursuing it).
Mufasa, that nipple-licking man is Peter Griffin. Stop whatever you’re doing and get the Family Guy dvds now.
I’m at Umass Amherst.[/quote]
As I suspected…
If it’s who I think it is, she’s a great lady who I respect very much for her accomplishments in the field.
Again, if it’s the same lady, I’ve actually been over to her house before - when applying for PhD programs she had a little party for all of her grad students and me - I received a very warm welcome.
You’re at a great school. I decided to pursue my studies elsewhere for a variety of reasons but still wonder what things would be like had I studied there.
Anyway, regardless, I wish she woulda not dismissed the article so quickly. There’s some real merit to opening up the protein discussion (as you’ll see if TC prints that article I referenced earlier)
Here are $0.02 from a guy that has spent a lot of hours in the classroom with instructors whose opinions differ greatly from his ideals:
(1) Don’t ever challenge anything in the classroom setting. It is called “lecture” for a reason. This is blatant disrespect for the instructor. If something makes your skin crawl, just scribble it in the margin of your notes, and approach the instructor after class or during office hours.
(2) When/if you approach a professor, do so in a respectful manner. I don’t really think handing a person an article that refutes his claims is the best approach. I have had numerous colleagues email to me articles about the evils of protein, creatine, etc. No discussion–just the attachment of the article. Doing so essentially says, “Here is something to render all the bullshit you spew irrelevant and wrong.” I wouldn’t even bring in “props” for your discussions. Just use facts from studies that you can pull off of the top of your head. It isn’t fair for you to go into battle armed with pages of literature while the professor is blindsided. Limit the discussion to civil discourse.
(3) Don’t take up the regurgitate-what-you-think-is-fallacy-so-I-get-a-good-grade philosophy. This might work, but at a cost. First of all, you are losing your voice. American universities are no longer authoritarian institutions; higher education serves a better function when it is a think-tank. The purpose of college is to learn how to think, not to mass-memorize mundane or erroneous information. Secondly, by biting your tongue, you miss the opportunity to earn the respect of your instructor through your interest in the material. Good professors love to discuss their field of study, so long as it is done in civilized debate with mutual respect.
*To original poster: I’m not saying that you aren’t already doing these things. They are simply points that came to my mind as I was thinking of you coming out with guns-a-blazin (or however you put it). Good luck, and don’t cave. In doing so, you miss a great deal of the college experience.
I don’t know about all of you; but in some of my classes I never shut my mouth (the more I know the more it’s open). But when I open it’s either to give an answer noone else is willing to give or it’s to apply my previous knowledge to the topic at hand (for example we were discussiong Erytropoietin and blood doping, and yes I spelled the hormone wrong, and I asked the professor “Wouldn’t taking artifical testosterone cause a similar effect due to T upping E levels?”) and the professors generally love me for it. As long as you show the professor that you’re willing to learn and to ask questions, and be respectful about it, while at the same time proving that you care about your grade and the subject at hand it seems that they will appreciate it.
Professors teach b/c they love teaching; and this means that they like the idea of one being a student and learning from them. If you can demonstrate to them that you want to learn (don’t go to office hours and say “Teach me this!” go there with specific questions about what you don’t understand) and ask good questions in class you’ll probably stay in contact w/ them years after the course is over or you just might run into them one day and they might say "I remember you (out of a class of 250 when I never went to office hours and sat more in the back); you asked good questions (like the professor never forgot that I asked him what happens to insulin on a ketogenic diet after he mentioned that protein minorly stimulates the secretion of insulin…I think…it was a few year ago).
Ok, my rants over.
RAther then argue i email my prof’s and say “Um, ive read the opposite and have been trawling medline/pubmed but couldnt find the study i found these… but not that…”
They are usually very happy to help out if they have the time.
Class forums are great for this too.
Tell me, how does everyone keep track of this, ive been constructing mind maps linking beliefs/facts to studies for easy references (mostly from here) but its still hard…
i am trying to encourage a friend to start writting articles for this site, and he has the same problem with his professors (he is at a top 5 uni in the uk.)
[quote]Proteinpowda wrote:
I don’t know about all of you; but in some of my classes I never shut my mouth (the more I know the more it’s open).[/quote]
who here wasn’t surprised by this, raise your hands!
You must be a joy to have around, Jase.
I used to trick my profs into thinking they were helping me debunk a friends argument that disagreed with them. Um excuse me but my friend keeps telling me how all this protien is so good for you but I tried to tell him about what you said and he is more versed in the subject than I am so he usually wins. Here is some material he “made” me read, could you help me find the flaws in these articles, reports, etc… (then when she comes up with some, you can say, yea I said that too, but my friend said this… etc. that way you can pretend to play devils advocate, and your prof will think it is you and them against a mystery person.
Berardi is the man because he is extemely credible (his aligning with a supplement company only proves that he is out for our benefit), experienced in the classroom and the gym, and well written. However, he is not the only person to listen to when it comes to sports nutrition. It is not healthy to only listen to the ideas of one person.
I just wanted to throw one more thing in here and say how much I respect Dr. Berardi and his work (and I think the rest of you will say the same). Whenever you read his articles you’ll notice that they’re not just “do this,” they’re “this is what I think you should do, here’s why, and here are some studies to back this up, and I think there always need to be some form of personal modificaition to suit your individaul needs.” He’s not just a “conveyor of knowledge,” he’s a teacher b/c his articles have definetly helped me to analyze things. And he’s one of the most unbiased people I’ve ever read; just read his list of reccomended supplements on his site. Even though he is affiliated with Biotest not everyone of their products has received his reccomendation. Even when the original T2 came out he wrote a rather critical review of the study and when the TRIBEX study was done he mentioned ways it could have been done better. Thank you Dr. Berardi.
[quote]NateN wrote:
Berardi shouldn’t be really considered a reputable soure because he has connections with a supplement company.
I can’t add more than what Dr. Berardi has, but if this professor has done research, she has probably been connected with a company of some kind or another, also.
Everybody has an agenda.
I have a masters in foods and nutrition, and I have relearned just about everything from Dr. Berardi and Dr. Lowrey.
