My Journey With Sleep

Nutrition
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I’ve decided to post here my problems with sleep deficiency and a lot so that others might be able to learn from it if anyone else is having problems. I’m not a Neurologist but I am now seeing one.

I don’t sleep well at all at night time. While I can stay awake fairly easily during the day I’m far from energetic and if I’m not doing something I can easily fall asleep. For example if I’m not the one driving the car I might fall asleep if the drive is 30 minutes or longer.

I’ve also had consistent episodes of Hypnagogic hallucinations and Sleep paralysis, ever since I was little I had vivid dreams and still do. Hypnagogia - Wikipedia

I tried SleepMD first and it did nothing. A doctor I know then (without any diagnosis) gave me a few ambien to try and xanax. Told me to try half an ambien first see how it goes than half a xanax - if neither goes well try a whole one. I did and ambien did nothing at half or whole.

Xanax at half did nothing at a whole one it helped me fall asleep but I’d still wake up shortly after. (Honestly I bought the SleepMD over the TM one because I was hoping it would work that night and could then order the TN one, I think its ZMA? while finishing off the SleepMD pack)

Since I’m trying to gain weight even though the exhaustion hasn’t affected my life or work I felt it was affecting my efforts to gain weight so I went to a Neurologist.

At this point he believes it is three things:

  1. Anemia - He tested my blood and found an iron deficiency.

  2. Restless Leg Syndrome - He told me to take 200mg of Iron for this

  3. Narcolepsy - I’m not exactly sure where this stands yet since I haven’t spoken to him personally. The doctor is close to where my dad lives and my dad’s girlfriend goes to him as well. When they went there the other day he told my dad he believes I am borderline Narcoleptic. When my dad relayed the message to me he made it sound like it was something in my blood that led the Doctor to believe these things. My appointment for a second visit is June 6th.

In the mean time I am wearing an Accuwatch which monitors light, noise, and movements and have to keep a supplemental journal of my sleeping patterns. I’ve also began on the doctor’s suggestion taking 3mg of Melatonin and 250mg of Magnesium.

I just did some research on Iron and found this:

Which leads me to believe the problem may be with things I believed I was doing right. Namely I eat lots and lots of Sweet Potato and Spinach. Now it seems they may have been factors in my sleep problems. In fact since seeing the doctor I had been staying quite busy and eating a little less healthy but had been sleeping great. I thought this was mostly the Melatonin, Magnesium, and Exhaustion from being very busy.

Yesterday however I slept terribly and for dinner I had Scallops with Spinach and Quinoa mixed with Whole-Grain Rice. I don’t know if it was the definite cause but its certainly alarming to know that many of the foods we talk about as super foods are also capable of preventing iron absorption.

I don’t want to base anything on one website so looked to see if others talked about foods that prevent iron absorption as well and as all things seem to be the results are completely different:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2174383/foods_that_prevent_iron_absorption.html?cat=5

Particularly that third one mentions Spinach as being good (what I had previously believed) but says Milk, Egg Whites, and Fiber are bad.

In looking up this Phytic Acid it seems some other ‘power foods’ have it and might also be bad for me
Oatmeal, Beans, and Lentils all make the list.

Well thats about all for now. If anyone has comments feel free. I’ll post again if I find anything else interesting out otherwise after my next visit to the Neurologist.

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I also have RLS; ZMA has been like a wonder drug for me. I sleep very well now and I have a better quality of life because I actually feel rested when I wake up. I actually wake up everyday at 7AM and feel completely rested, I cant sleep anymore after that. (Unless I stayed up later the previous evening)

With regards to your nutrition, how many cheat meals do you have a month? Maybe you should start trying one cheat day a week and see if that makes a difference.
On a side note try eating more Cocoa(Dark Chocolate) at least 70% Cocoa. It is very high in magnesium and fiber.

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There’s some belief that RLS can possibly be related to iron deficiency. In fact, often doctors recommend blood work be performed as part of making the diagnosis (including but not limited to: CBC, TIBC, Ferritin etc.). Another school of though also believes that a magnesium deficiency can lead to symptoms of RLS.

Your best bet is to follow the neurologists advice for the time being and take the iron in an effort to improve your anemia. Once your iron levels return to normal, you should reassess your symptoms. The addition of magnesium will help too.

As far as the possibility of narcolepsy goes–you do have at least two of the clinical presentations of the disorder (hypnagogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis). Do you present with the symptomology of cataplexy (loss of muscle tone in response to emotion) or excessive daytime sleepiness too? Among the other (clinical) features of narcolepsy is a disturbance in sleep architecture which is based on your presentation, why your neuro may be suspecting this disorder. However, your (apparent) presentation of sleep onset insomnia casts some doubt on the narcolepsy diagnosis). Your doctor will probably order you a sleep test in the end.

My background is in the sleep side of things rather than the nutritional aspect–but work on fixing the iron problem first–you’d be suprised what you may be able to accomplish.

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I bought an Iron Complex today, it tasted terrible but down it went.

I know I’m going to need a sleep study but he knows, and so do I, that if we tried now I would spend the whole night awake attached to the wires with my mind wandering all the time. Once we can get me sleeping somewhat better we’re going to do an Overnight Study to check for the REM symptoms associated with Narcolepsy.

I don’t believe I have loss of muscle tone but I’m not a very emotional guy so not too sure. I never really considered myself to have daytime exhaustion but I very well could. I fall asleep almost immediately in cars, buses, trains. I’ve fallen asleep on my lunch break once. I’m definitely not as energetic as some but its a hard thing to diagnose I always just thought of myself as not very outgoing. Exhaustion could certainly be a cause of that though. Usually I stay awake, I’ve pulled more all nighters than I care to remember. When I don’t have anything doing though I can sleep just about anywhere but I often wake up just 20-30 minutes later usually in a panic. Probably 90% of the time if I sleep in the supine position (on my back) I will experience both sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations, it also happens if I fall asleep in chairs sometimes and have had it happen in public (falling asleep in a studio when I was in university and a few times falling asleep on buses).

What is your background?

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Have you experimented any more with your diet and what you eat before bed time? I will admit that I have no experience with what you have discussed, but personally my dinner makes a big difference in my sleep patterns. You even seemed to highlight the fact that certain foods, and high carb meals before bed caused poor sleep that night. Maybe you should experiment more with that, and also try avoiding those “bad” foods that you mentined before bedtime. Just a thought.

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[quote]Enders Drift wrote:
I bought an Iron Complex today, it tasted terrible but down it went.

I know I’m going to need a sleep study but he knows, and so do I, that if we tried now I would spend the whole night awake attached to the wires with my mind wandering all the time. Once we can get me sleeping somewhat better we’re going to do an Overnight Study to check for the REM symptoms associated with Narcolepsy.

I don’t believe I have loss of muscle tone but I’m not a very emotional guy so not too sure. I never really considered myself to have daytime exhaustion but I very well could. I fall asleep almost immediately in cars, buses, trains. I’ve fallen asleep on my lunch break once. I’m definitely not as energetic as some but its a hard thing to diagnose I always just thought of myself as not very outgoing. Exhaustion could certainly be a cause of that though. Usually I stay awake, I’ve pulled more all nighters than I care to remember. When I don’t have anything doing though I can sleep just about anywhere but I often wake up just 20-30 minutes later usually in a panic. Probably 90% of the time if I sleep in the supine position (on my back) I will experience both sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucinations, it also happens if I fall asleep in chairs sometimes and have had it happen in public (falling asleep in a studio when I was in university and a few times falling asleep on buses).

What is your background?
[/quote]

Briefly, while I’m not a physician or health care professional (standard disclaimer), I work in a sleep medicine clinic and have a background in Neuroscience with a focus on sleep related research. It’s an area that became of great interest to me after being diagnosed with Narcolepsy myself–so on that subject I speak from both the literature and first hand experience.

The only way to medically rule in/out the narcolepsy diagnosis will be via sleep test (polysmnography). While it is awkward to be hooked up to all the wires, the best thing to do is just to relax and not pay much mind to it.

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Well been a few days now of good sleep until last night.

Took my Iron Complex with lunch. Then about 11:00pm I took the Magnesium and Melatonin.

Fell asleep around 11:30

Woke up around 3. Was able to fall back asleep into some really strange lucid dream. Woke up again around 3:30. Fell asleep to some hypnagogic hallucination. Luckily no sleep paralysis at least. Woke up again though and finally got back to sleep around 5:30am to then wake up for the day at about 8am.

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I’ve got an iron deficiency as well (diagnosed as anemia) and have recently had a little bit of trouble sleeping. It may be due to a new work schedule though and getting up earlier than I’m used to.

I may look into ZMA’s more and possibly try using them for a week to see how my sleep goes.

Also, since it should be taken on an empty stomach (especially far from calcium) soon before bed has this interfered with anyone’s late night cottage cheese ritual?

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Alright went to the Dr. again this week.

Magnesium didn’t do anything so I was told to stop taking that. Seems if it was going to work it would’ve been immediate. It is not a full proof method for fighting RLS though so it doesn’t really prove anything.

He has now suggested a sleep study for me, and gave me a prescription to have one done.

In the meantime I was told to try 3mg of Melatonin with a dose of Passionflower Extract before bed. See how it works.
Then I got samples of Lunesta to try in addition to the Melatonin but not with the Passionflower Extract. See hot it works.
Finally I have a prescription I can fill for Lorazepam to take with the Melatonin. See how it works.

At this point I’ve taken the Passionflower Extract for two days and have never slept better. I bought the bottle for $10 at Wholefoods and it suggests 30-40 drops (has a dropper) in some water. I’ve taken 30 drops each night. Definitely seems to help. Glad I found something that works without prescription. I’m going to take the Lunesta sample tonight and tomorrow since I have it to compare the difference but probably will put off on filling the prescription of Lorazepam since the Extract is working.

The goal for now is to find something that works and I need to take it when I go for the sleep study because if I can’t sleep during the study it’ll be a waste of time and money.

But for anyone suffering from Insomnia, Passionflower Extract is something to consider trying.

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I’ve found melatonin to be pretty badass when used sporadically, I don’t know if its effects are dulled through repeated use though.

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I suffer from sleep paralysis never knew it was a medical condition, just thought it was me being weird. Its really horrible, I also occasionally hallucinate people sitting on the end of my bed and talking to me while I am paralysed. Unpleasant to say the least. Thanks for posting those links interesting stuff.

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[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
I’ve found melatonin to be pretty badass when used sporadically, I don’t know if its effects are dulled through repeated use though.[/quote]

I’ve been using Melatonin for 2 years now and find that it does sometimes seem to be dulled. i think this depends on the person as I’ve heard some people who use it regularly need to go off for a month every now and then to reset their bodies.

One thing I noticed is while it help’s me fall a sleep, which with out can be a nightmare I don’t always feel rested even with 8-9hrs sleep. Thinking about trying ZMA after this bottle is done.

Anyone on here used both and if you what are your thoughts?

Will post opinion once I’ve used both.

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[quote]DGarcia wrote:

[quote]CapnYousef wrote:
I’ve found melatonin to be pretty badass when used sporadically, I don’t know if its effects are dulled through repeated use though.[/quote]

I’ve been using Melatonin for 2 years now and find that it does sometimes seem to be dulled. i think this depends on the person as I’ve heard some people who use it regularly need to go off for a month every now and then to reset their bodies.

One thing I noticed is while it help’s me fall a sleep, which with out can be a nightmare I don’t always feel rested even with 8-9hrs sleep. Thinking about trying ZMA after this bottle is done.

Anyone on here used both and if you what are your thoughts?

Will post opinion once I’ve used both.[/quote]

Same on the “both,” I’m getting some ZMA shortly.
I love Biotest more and more every day.

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You guys ever try Z-12?

amazing stuff, but then again I don’t really have major sleep problems.

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[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
You guys ever try Z-12?

amazing stuff, but then again I don’t really have major sleep problems.[/quote]

What is actually in Z-12? I’ve read the info on it, but can someone give it to me in simple terms.

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[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
You guys ever try Z-12?

amazing stuff, but then again I don’t really have major sleep problems.[/quote]

It works great for me but had this strange side effect that after about 6 1/2 hours I wake up, if I get up then I feel great all day but if I go back to sleep (sometimes this is because its 4:30 or something when I wake up the first time) then I just can’t seem to wake up fully until about lunch time. It was too unpredictable with me so I stopped using it, 3/4 of a bottle still sitting in my supplement cache.

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Oh another thing was I asked the Dr. about the iron suppression foods like spinach and sweet potato. He said its only a problem if you’re a vegetarian. If you’re eating enough proteins from animal meat it shouldn’t have any effect on iron absorption. I didn’t ask him to explain why but was happy to hear that since I do love my spinach, sweet potato, and some sort of grilled meat for dinner as my staple.

Shouldn’t really affect anyone on this site since I doubt anyone reading is a vegetarian but still wanted to mention it.

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Oh another thing was I asked the Dr. about the iron suppression foods like spinach and sweet potato. He said its only a problem if you’re a vegetarian. If you’re eating enough proteins from animal meat it shouldn’t have any effect on iron absorption. I didn’t ask him to explain why but was happy to hear that since I do love my spinach, sweet potato, and some sort of grilled meat for dinner as my staple.

Shouldn’t really affect anyone on this site since I doubt anyone reading is a vegetarian but still wanted to mention it.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
You guys ever try Z-12?

amazing stuff, but then again I don’t really have major sleep problems.[/quote]

What is actually in Z-12? I’ve read the info on it, but can someone give it to me in simple terms.[/quote]

L-theanine

Found in things like tea, has an overall calming effect.

5-Hydroxytryptophan
Serotonin precursor

4-amino-3-phenyl-butanoic acid HCL (PhGABA)

GABA is used as a neurotransmitter in the brain that hyperpolarizes neurons increasing the threshold required to activate them. Basically slowing down or decreasing activity.

The product description for Z-12 explains it in much more detail than that. It works very well.

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[quote]steelechris wrote:
It was too unpredictable with me so I stopped using it, 3/4 of a bottle still sitting in my supplement cache.[/quote]

Send it to me.