Okay, here’s the deal. My girlfriend is Chinese. She was born in Hong Kong and lived there until her family moved to Toronto, ON about 10 years ago. I am a Canadian white boy. Neither one of us has a problem with it. People are just people to me. While I think it’s important that individual races maintain their unique traditions, I also don’t see a problem with interracial relations. However, my girl had a few drinks in her last night and confessed to me that her parents don’t approve of my seeing her. I am quite upset by this as I feel our relationship has some outstanding long-term potential. My girl then told me that I could probably win over her parents if I learned how to speak Cantonese. She also told me I should learn how to use chopsticks. I don’t have a problem with the chopsticks (although I am quite clumsy with them!). Learning Cantonese, on the other hand, would be a serious undertaking. I do feel that my girl is worth the effort. What would you do? I think I should learn Cantonese, but have no idea where to start.
Hoser: my mom is Cantonese and I have been “relearning” Cantonese over the last several years. Mind you, I’ve been taking “wee” steps during this time, but I think I can help you.
It's probably one of the more difficult Asian languages to learn - well, much more entailed than Mandarin (of which I am also learning) - but you can purchase correspondence courses for Cantonese. However, as in any language, the best way to learn is to interact with others who speak the language you are learning to speak. Also, can't your girlfriend help you? She does speak it, right? BTW: I betcha if you learn a nice, simple greeting - her parents would start to warm up to ya. And yes, they are being typical "Chinese parents" - my mom isn't that way, but my grandparents were! And a nice way to say good morning in Cantonese is: "jo sun" (said like "joe sun"). "How are you" is: "nei ho ma" (nay ho mah) (emphasize the "ay" in nei and the "ah" in ma). Hope this helps!
Patricia, I’ve been wondering what ethnicity you are. It’s difficult to tell from your pics. So you are half chinese. What is the other half? What about Ko?
So learn the language. It never ceases to amaze me how people can be language-phobic. (This applies to math as well…) Yes, it will take you a while. But think about the benefits:
You might get the girl.
You will have a huge PLUS on your resume. I don’t care what field you decide to go into, another “major” language will always help.
If you ever decide to go to China, you’ll be able to make your way without having to rely on guides who may or may not rip you off.
You’ll be able to converse with another billion or so people.
Even if you don’t get the girl, you’ll have a leg up on dating other Chinese women, a lot of whom are way cute.
Finally, as a bit of advice: You probably know that Chinese is a tonal language. Okay, pay attention to your accent!! It makes all the difference in the world in how native speakers will react to you.
Now go for it!
Being hapa myself, I would learn Cantonese and learn to eat with chopsticks. I can’t personally speak form you point of view, but my Dad had to warm up to my moms parents too. Just give it some time, and train hard. Jaa Matta Nee.
I should add that my dad never bothered to learn Cantonese or Mandarin or even how to use chopsticks. And BS: from my dad’s side, I’m a quarter German and a quarter Irish. So, I’m real stubborn, like Whiskey, and shouldn’t ever get behind the wheel of a car. hee hee. Ko’s mom is Japanese and his dad was from Missouri. And from his dad’s side, Ko’s got a tad bit of Native American (Sage Indian), too.
AND, Mandarin is considered the "national" Chinese language, while Cantonese is spoken primarilly in the Canton provence of China as well as Hong Kong. My mom spoke not only Cantonese, but Mandarin and Peking (now Beijing) as well.
Thankyou for the responses all. I don’t post often, but it’s nice to know that support is out there when I do.
Pat: good point, I should just get my girl to help me. I was hoping to surprise her one day by speaking Cantonese, but it might be more fun to get her to teach me. Thankyou for the simple phrases.
Char: no problems, already got the girl, just have to get the parents too. By the way, I am far from language-phobic. I have been meaning to learn another language besides English and French. I finally have some motivation!
Besides getting my girl to help me, does anyone have some specific resources for learning Cantonese? I found an online resource called “Wordlink” or something like that. Basically, you memorize Cantonese words by using them in English sentences. For example, soup is “ton”. You remember this by thinking of the phrase “eat a ton of soup”. This seems okay, but I’m looking for a more concrete method of learning the language. Thanks again all!
I went through something similar with parents of a different cultural background… and we were both white! Make an effort to learn the language, it’s daunting but rewarding at the end. I learned French by living there, you could learn by having her speak to you in Cantonese. You’ll get frusterated and want to give up, but then all of a sudden you start to understand things… and it gets a bit easier then. Simple conversations are the way to start, have her teach you to ask for the salt at dinner. Then what time is it, let it grow slowly. You’ll pick it up and be ahead of 95% of Canadians and Americans, who never bother to broaden their language horizions.
Being Chinese myself and seeing how some of my relatives who dated, and in some cases, married or will marry “outside of the race,” it’s really hard to blame the parents for wanting to keep everything traditional. It really sounds ludacris but the thing is they were raised to do their best to keep their future generations “pure.” In order to win them over, I’d have to agree with Patricia. Learning just a few verses at the very least shows that you put an honest effort in trying to understand your girlfriend’s heritage. Every girl that I’ve tried dating, when I would meet their parents I would’ve already picked up on a few lines of their language and somehow incorporate them into our conversations. Oddly enough, the parents always seem to open up more to me like that. I think just being polite and using those two lines that Patricia provided is a good start. When you leave their home say “Jow la”: stating that you’re leaving and perhaps on their part allow them to see you out their home (common courtesy). When thanking them there are two ways: “Mmm Goy” (sort of like thanking a person by insinuating ‘oh you didn’t have to do that’) and “Daw Jeh” (literally meaning many thanks). Use “Mmm Goy” when they hand you something, like for instance a cup of tea (always use two hands to recieve the object!) and use “Daw Jeh” like when they pick up the tab to a dinner or lunch or something. And speaking of which, it might not be a bad idea to show off these skills (including using the chopsticks) when treating them to tea time or Dim Sum at a Chinese restaurant. One little tip sure to win them over during tea time is using your chopsticks, picking up some food and handing them over to the parents starting with the father followed immediately by the mother and then your girlfriend. Keep their cups of tea constantly full. Hopefully, this will be of some help. The language itself is really half the battle, the other half is learning that certain things are considered to be common sense courtesy and definitely expected of you. “Jook Nay Ho Won” (I wish you good luck!)
How do you say BULLSHIT in cantonese…that’s the only word you need to learn…if you’re not being accepted for who you are and how you treat them/their daughter, no amount of change and sacrifice on your part will make you good in their eyes…why not jusy buy them a new car and see if they warm up to you???It’s just another form of bribery.And, if your GF thinks you need to make such efforts just to be accepted by her parents it tells me she’s not the keeper you think she is…they’re basically asking you to be a little more chinese. Be yourself,we can’t change to make others happy.
Hoser, check into your local school boards. You said you live in Toronto? One or the other of the school boards probably offers Cantonese language classes in the evenings or weekends.
Good points, Jeff T! I was just talking about those bits of “chinese courtesy” to Ko just last night. Oh and I have “doh jeh”(I’m writing it as it’s pronounced), imbedded in my head, from when my great uncles and aunts useto give my sister and I the red envelopes with money in them. Ahh, seemed so long ago.
But the common courtesies he talked about are SPOT on! Oh, and Canton is now called Guangzhou. China has long since converted many cities' and provences names to Mandarin. Which is why I tell you now, to find Cantonese taught in schools is difficult. Since it's only spoken in certain areas. Mandarin is being taught just about ANYWHERE. Also, what char said is very important. Mind your tones. Cantonese has over ten different tones (Mandarin has only 5 or 6). Wow - this is all helping me out right now, too!!!
Here are some sites on the web that may help: http://members.tripod.com/~DorothyMa/ index2.html (eliminate the space at "/" and "index")
www.khuang.com/ chinese/cantonese.asp (eliminate the space at "/" and "chinese")
www.cantonese.ca/
I also went to the Northwest China Councel (in Portland, Or), for Mandarin. Is there such a Chinese organization up in Toronto?
You are 100% WRONG. When you marry a person you marry their family. If the family doesn’t like you it will always be a battle or you have to ‘sign off’ from them. Neither is a good option. Her parents are probably afraid that he is going to ignore her heritage and replace it with his own. This is VERY common with immigrant parents. By showing them that her background is as important as his, he shows them that he will never try to ‘take her culture away’. Preserving cultural heritage is often extremely important to immigrants.
Hey Hoser, it is nice that you are thinking about learning Cantonese, but I got to ask, what took you so long to even think about it? When you meet someone of another ethnicity, I think it is only natural to want to get to know the whole person. The ethnicity is a part of that. Don’t think of it in narrow terms of learning the language, but learning more about her and her culture. Learning about other cultures will only improve you as a person and broaden your world view. I would suggest something I’ve done with my wife. In the course of everyday conversation, ask your girlfriend how to say the same thing in Cantonese. Just make sure that she makes any gender-specific distinctions, if any exist. When I was in Japan, there was nothing funnier than some white guy speaking like a girl because he learned the language from his girlfriend, and she did not bother teaching him to talk like a man. Good luck.
i’m in this type of relationship right now. my gf would never think to ask me to change in order to appease her parents…she loves me for me, not for who her parents would like me to be…you are wrong in thinking that “you marry their family”…will they be there day in and day out as you try to make the relationship work?? will they be there in sickness and in health?? a long-term relationship between two people is difficult and complicated enough without thinking that it needs to be anything more than a one on one , give and take scenario…you’re speculating that they’re afraid he’s going to replace/ignore her heritage…why not say the’re not fond of their daughter dating an anglo??? that’s a possibility too…but who want’s to acknowledge that her parents just might carry some prejudice??..or that he’ll never be accepted for reasons beyond his control.And lastly, who in their right mind thinks that he wants to “take her culture away”?why would they think that?what has he done to arouse such suspicion?..aside from birthdays and holidays,parents are not part of the relationship equation…unless you allow them to be.
Mulestick: I appreciate your responses. An opposing viewpoint has definitely given me more to think about. Just to clear something up here, if it was up to my girl I wouldn’t have to do any of this stuff to get her parents to like me. However, she accepts that her parents values are solidified to those that were instilled in them as they grew up in Hong Kong. I also disagree with your view that by learning Cantonese and other characteristics of my girl’s heritage, I am changing who I am. The core of who I am is remaining unchanged. I am simply enhancing myself by learning about another culture.
Hyok: thanks for the tip about gender specificity. I had no idea.
To all: Okay, I purchased a “teach yourself Cantonese” book online for about $20. I know that a book probably isn’t the best way to do this, but I figure I should start small. I can get my girl to help me with what I’ve learned so far from the book. Thanks again everybody.
DUDE!
I’m a Canadian of Chinese heritage who’s gone out with white, black, and oh yeah, asian women, so I really, really, know what it’s like to be accepted and NOT accepted! First off, there’s almost half a million Chinese in Toronto right now, so there’s zero excuse for you to not know about the culture; just take a tour of the 4 Chinatowns. Second, there are tons of places to learn Cantonese. Ever try, umm, Chapters or Indigo? Or, umm, Toronto Board of Education or Continuing Ed. courses from Parks and Rec??? Man, if you wanna make it work with your girl, you just gotta try a bit harder than what you’ve already been doing, which sounds like zilch, but good luck. Well, like they say, “Once you try Asian, you’ll never go back”…or something like that!
Mulesstick, your are right, her parents do not want her to marry “Anglo”. Do you want to know why? It’s because of attitudes like your’s. The extended family is very important to Asian cultures, for the relationship to work, he is going to have to win over the parents. Eventually they will come around, and maybe others will also.
Another thing, by learning more about her culture/language he is improving himself, becoming more worldly. That is a good thing. Its called growing. You should try it.
Yes, a healthy marriage includes the extended family. If you were an isolated couple on a desert island that would be one thing, but weddings, funerals, holidays, weekly phone calls, vacation visits, family trips, weekends at grandmas… they all include family. When one set of parents hates thier new son or daughter in law, it creates a TON of pressure on their child. That pressure leads to a TON of stress, and that stress can ruin a marriage.
Most children of immigrant parents freely admit that their parents don't want them to date out of their culture. They have to accept it because most of the time it is true. Their signifigant other also has to know about it so that they are prepared to be on thier best behavior.
Learning about a new culture and a new language is not 'changing who you are' it is learning and growing as a person in an ever shrinking world. If you don't see that as a good thing then you need to get out of your shell. Knowledge is never a negative thing.
How is it that it is okay for asians (or minorities period) to dislike one to marry a caucasian but if the situation is reversed it becomes racism? (to quite a few anyhow; at least in PC circles) To my mind if one person loves another (race not withstanding) then shouldn’t this be enough; whether or not he learns the language? I’m not judging anyone but these questions did cross my mind. Perhaps I’d feel differently were I in the situation but I’m not sure as I can only surmise. However I would think very well of a son-in-law (as long as she loved my daughter; provided I had one) and knew how to treat her right. Since she suggested learning the language might win them over it’s worth a try. Just something to consider…