I doubt he knows what that is.
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I don’t think a lot of guys think about stuff like this until they are a bit older. I know I think about risk vs reward a lot, and because of that, I just don’t do very much gear. Not high doses, not long duration, not a high percent of my time is on anything but TRT / cruise levels (less than 1/4 of my time is on more than TRT levels).
I’ve seen a buddy that is a few years older than me really dial it back. His use was high, he was always on cycle / blast too. He has told me that at his biggest, he took a 10 mL vial of Test E 250 a week, and added things on to it. That was about a decade ago. When I met him he was on a permanent dose of 300 mg/wk Test and 700 mg/wk EQ. We’ve talked about this and longevity. I told him he needs to consider long term heart health among other things. I don’t know what impact I had on him, but last I checked, he had been on 250 mg/wk Test and 50 mg/wk Deca. He still has one of the best physiques in the gym. It is a slightly smaller physique than when he was doing the 300 / 700 stack, but he still is lean and pretty big, and much much better than most 40 year old guys. To me, his decision makes a ton of sense. I think had he kept going with what he was doing, he would have about a 50/50 of a heart attack in his 40s.
He sounds like he does his own research. How difficult is it to Google “Goldman’s Dilemma”?
I firmly believe that anyone considering using or increasing the doses of AAS, regardless of age, needs to do their own risk/reward assessment, if for no other reason than to show more intelligence than an oyster. The value depends quite a bit on how much information is available and how dependable the reader perceives it be (plus where they are on the “Goldman’s Dilemma Spectrum.”)
So, isn’t Goldman’s dilemma saying would it be worth it to take a drug that would take 5 years off your life? If so I would much rather have my risks much lower in the future.
You got the years correct, but after 5 years you die.
the Goldman dilemma , is a question that was posed to elite athletes by physician, osteopath and publicist Robert M. Goldman, asking whether they would take a drug that would guarantee them overwhelming success in sport, but cause them to die after five years.
I thought about it very hard and I have a ton of years of lifting experience just not gear experience, I always wanted to get into a pro show since I started competing, I know the risks very well and always try and take the precautions to make sure I have decent health all year round I also do my blood work every 3-4 weeks. I’m not even thinking about upping doses currently and the only way I would consider that is if I ever win a pro show, and get into IFBB competitions.
Then, the answer would be absolutely not.
Yes but for an 18 year old to understand the gravity of the question is another thing too. It appears I was on spot.
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It’s just a big thing for me to think about.
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As it should be. That’s the point.
Taking a couple years off your life is not the only consideration here. You are not fully developed yet. Do you want to risk permanent issues for this hobby?
Is your goal to become a career bodybuilder?
If you decide to take gear you should reconsider what you have laid out for your first cycle. You have no idea how these drugs will react in your body and if you have a multiple compounds in you it will that much harder to understand what is going on.
Think hard man.
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Waiting for pictures like
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Do you remember when we finally got pictures on that one thread for the teen on TikTok? That was hilarious. Dude was around 120 lbs, but insisted his genetics were amazing. Then he deleted the first pictures in which he looked sickly, said they were old, then posted pics stolen from some influencer on Instagram.
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I wasn’t clear in my question about the Goldman Spectrum (at rating that I made up.)
Let attempt to give you a perspective that you should consider:
- All use of AAS above medical TRT puts you above 0% on the Goldman Spectrum.
- Probably no one would admit to being 100% on the GS.
- Most every bodybuilder that died in their 20’s is probably in the high 90’s%, whether they spent the time to evaluate themselves.
- You must consider you genetic longevity, which could raise your GS percent. That is, if all 4 of your grandparents lived to their high 80’s, your GS% would be much less than if one or two of them died in their 40’s, 50’s or 60’s of disease.
- I took AAS for most of 3 decades more “on cycle” than “off cycle”, at lower doses than you are considering, and I would rate my AAS GS risk at about 50%. Both of my parents and mother’s parents lived to their mid-80’s (my father was adopted, so I have no data there.)
There are many factors to consider, not just the compounds and their amount plus the prevention efforts you make, when you are trying to assess your risk. The reward is simple, though you can adjust it as you go.
At this moment I am soon to be 75 years old (3 days), but I don’t know if I will live as long as my parents. BTW, I exceeded the goals that I had hoped to achieve (which were much lower than your goal.) I am most certain I had much poorer genetics than you have.
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Don’t be coy… you know you rocked. Once I see the pics, I may change my stance but won’t be oversold otherwise
Talk about putting the cart before the horse!!! You haven’t even won a Novice overall dude! And after you win that (which, since you’re a NOVICE and haven’t competed before, you might not win on your first time out), then you get to compete in the open NPC category, and you have to win your weight class to qualify for National level competition; that is, if the show you are doing is a national level qualifier.
So, most all of us always know that when someone “guesstimates” their bodyfat/lean mass, they almost ALWAYS underestimate the true amount of bodyfat they have. No, I’m not saying you’re a fatass, lol, but just that those of us who have competed[me], we always think we’re pretty lean and won’t have much to lose and when we diet down for a show for the first time, and get extremely lean, as in single digit bodyfat, we all of the sudden look at the scale and go “WTF?” because you usually…no, ALWAYS, end up needing to lose more weight than initially thought.
I’d assume that with your stats, you would probably diet down into the light heavyweights [in the 170s/180s] (for open, in novice you’d be heavyweight since there are less classes). So, in novice you’d be on the smaller end of your weight class, and then IF you win that and compete in open, you’d still just be a light heavyweight…I think open HW is ~198-224? I’m just guessing.
Maybe just focus for a couple of years on putting on quality mass, eating a proper diet, and NOT obliterating your endocrine system so young. I know you say your goal is to turn pro. Well, EVERYONE who steps on most NPC stages wants to also turn pro, and the statistics of those who actually go on to earn their pro card are NOT in your favor! I’ve seen guys who were jacked as hell, had amazing conditioning, and they competed in national shows for years and never got their pro card. Think of it like this…take any of the current, younger pros…now, look at their physiques. You would have to look as good or better than them to gain your pro card! So, look at Hunter Labrada, Regan Grimes, Nick Walker…all are relatively young in the sport. That is the type of physique you need to gain a pro card.
Not knocking you man, but trying to help you see that you need to set small, achievable goals for yourself in this sport. You don’t walk outside having never run before and proclaim you want to run a marathon in a few months, having never run distance before. No, and that would be setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. You start just trying to run a few miles a day, then maybe do a 5K months down the road, then aim to win a 5K, etc.
As others have said, you are WAY too young to be jumping on so many AAS, especially before you have even truly finished puberty. Why would you want to most likely destroy your endocrine system, and tax your organs, before you have even set foot on a stage and seen how you did? Perhaps you get up there and find that you don’t like posing, that you don’t like the rigid eating/training/sleeping/etc. structure? Maybe you do a novice show and you decide that you don’t like the very political and subjective nature of the sport? If you are just a novice, and haven’t taken a ton of AAS, you can back out and be okay. But if you have to take all of the gear you are talking about just to win a novice overall, or win the open overall…at some point you’ve already maxed out your potential with your genetics + AAS. Then what do you do when you step on a junior nationals stage? Because most guys who are going the pro route like to win the junior nationals/junior USA’s BEFORE they compete on the Nationals/USAs stage. If you have to blast a ton of AAS to win just the junior USAs…how much more stuff do you have to stuff in your ass to MAYBE win Nationals and get that pro card? Does that make sense? Many of the truly genetically gifted pros don’t even take that much AAS until they are at the nationals level, and then some of them aren’t’ taking a bunch, maybe test/deca/winstrol. Most aren’t even slamming HGH/insulin.
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Also, you’re 19-20 and not thinking long term, which is ok because I didnt at that age either. But in the end, I chose my white collar career, with a guaranteed salary, health insurance, a 401k, other benefits (ALL things that NO pro has) over the potential to maybe make money IF I was among the top 5 or so pros in the world. The rest of pros are barely scraping by…including the IFBB pro who trained me and took me up to the national level. Think about it, the guy was a pro who depended on my white collar, office working ass to pay his bills! He had that almighty pro card, and he had no guaranteed income as a personal trainer, no insurance (I remember, when he got sick he would just buy antibiotics online or go to a ghetto cheap doctor), and no retirement. Nah, I passed on that and chose my health and my career. Now that same pro who trained me over a decade ago is still hustling to find personal training clients and lives in an apartment while I have a house and a solid career. When I really weighed all of those things, I think I made the right choice.
For every Jay Cutler or Phil Heath, there are a TON of pros that you’ve either never heard of, or who once they got that coveted pro card faded off into the sunset. So, just think about it. I’m not saying to not give it a shot, but don’t start destroying your body so young, before you even have gotten your toes in the water of the very political, very subjective world of competitive BB’ing.
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I am looking forward to see where you stand in your quest.
You can start with a simple front double biceps with flexed quads.
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Something tells me OP won’t be back as he didn’t get the validation he seems to seek.
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