My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
9303

I keep having problems on this diet.

The first time I went on which was March-August 09’ I dropped weight instantly, but my strength went way down. I even had to come off the diet because I was eating 3k over maintenance and still dropping weight when I decided to bulk up. So I switched to a traditional clean bulk, i.e. 50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat.

So once I finished bulking up, which I saw my weight shoot up incredibly fast I decided to move back into the AD. I started off slow with under 100g carbs, and didn’t see much of a difference, and went into a carb up after 5 days to see if I could adapt as quickly. I didn’t have much of a drop off, so I went back to the original under 30g, and went another 5 days… Weight didn’t change. So after a few weeks of this I went for 11 days to adapt, and had the same results, and then after a carbup I went the required 2 full weeks of adaption, and still got nothing. I’ve added in Animal Cuts which always cut me down, and I even added in the ECA stack. I went back and checked all of the other little things out such as my %'s and my diet which is spot on still. I train 5-6 days a week (cardio/speed/agility session in the morning, and lifting at night), gallon of water a day, and 7-8 hours of sleep. I honestly have no idea what’s going wrong here. I just don’t feel like I am fully adapted, and I don’t know the reason why.

I don’t have the complete macro’s right now, but it’s around 2,800 calories.

9:30AM (After cardio session)
5-6 eggs
1 cup of cheddar cheese
2 Hot Dogs

12:30PM
1 Lg. can of chicken breast
3 TBSP of mayonaise

3:30PM
5 Hot Dogs

6:30PM
4 scoops of protein powder (104g protein)
1 Cup of Heavy whipping Cream

8:30PM
1/2 pound of Ground Beef
3 TBSP mayonaise
1 cup of cheddar cheese

10:00PM
1 Cup of 4% Cottage Cheese

Can anyone throw out any ideas at all? Why am I so completely stuck right now? I’ve even increased the volume in my training sessions, and I still have the same rebound. After a 24 hour carb up, I’ll get up to 252, drop down to 246 by Thursday, and then go up to 247-249 by Saturday Morning. Each week it is the exact same thing. I mean it doesn’t even seem as if I am dropping water weight from this diet. The first time I got on this diet I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks, and the second week I was off and not even training. I’ve emailed the doctor 3 times in the past with various questions and never received an answer back. I am way behind my current goals, and I really need some help. So I would really appreciate something here on what is going on.

9304

Hey guys, first 11days on diet is complete! Can’t wait to Carb up tomorrowwwwwwww. Also my goal is to lean out soo hopfully it works in my favour. Also im on AAS support now and was 225lbs when started noe…240lbs… pretty crazzzzy. Anywhoo post more replys later on!

9305

[quote]fullback7 wrote:
I keep having problems on this diet.

The first time I went on which was March-August 09’ I dropped weight instantly, but my strength went way down. I even had to come off the diet because I was eating 3k over maintenance and still dropping weight when I decided to bulk up. So I switched to a traditional clean bulk, i.e. 50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat.

So once I finished bulking up, which I saw my weight shoot up incredibly fast I decided to move back into the AD. I started off slow with under 100g carbs, and didn’t see much of a difference, and went into a carb up after 5 days to see if I could adapt as quickly. I didn’t have much of a drop off, so I went back to the original under 30g, and went another 5 days… Weight didn’t change. So after a few weeks of this I went for 11 days to adapt, and had the same results, and then after a carbup I went the required 2 full weeks of adaption, and still got nothing. I’ve added in Animal Cuts which always cut me down, and I even added in the ECA stack. I went back and checked all of the other little things out such as my %'s and my diet which is spot on still. I train 5-6 days a week (cardio/speed/agility session in the morning, and lifting at night), gallon of water a day, and 7-8 hours of sleep. I honestly have no idea what’s going wrong here. I just don’t feel like I am fully adapted, and I don’t know the reason why.

I don’t have the complete macro’s right now, but it’s around 2,800 calories.

9:30AM (After cardio session)
5-6 eggs
1 cup of cheddar cheese
2 Hot Dogs

12:30PM
1 Lg. can of chicken breast
3 TBSP of mayonaise

3:30PM
5 Hot Dogs

6:30PM
4 scoops of protein powder (104g protein)
1 Cup of Heavy whipping Cream

8:30PM
1/2 pound of Ground Beef
3 TBSP mayonaise
1 cup of cheddar cheese

10:00PM
1 Cup of 4% Cottage Cheese

Can anyone throw out any ideas at all? Why am I so completely stuck right now? I’ve even increased the volume in my training sessions, and I still have the same rebound. After a 24 hour carb up, I’ll get up to 252, drop down to 246 by Thursday, and then go up to 247-249 by Saturday Morning. Each week it is the exact same thing. I mean it doesn’t even seem as if I am dropping water weight from this diet. The first time I got on this diet I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks, and the second week I was off and not even training. I’ve emailed the doctor 3 times in the past with various questions and never received an answer back. I am way behind my current goals, and I really need some help. So I would really appreciate something here on what is going on. [/quote]

am i reading this right in one serving you consume 104 grams of protein , or is that the weight of the powder.

9306

[quote]dza1978 wrote:
fullback7 wrote:
I keep having problems on this diet.

The first time I went on which was March-August 09’ I dropped weight instantly, but my strength went way down. I even had to come off the diet because I was eating 3k over maintenance and still dropping weight when I decided to bulk up. So I switched to a traditional clean bulk, i.e. 50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat.

So once I finished bulking up, which I saw my weight shoot up incredibly fast I decided to move back into the AD. I started off slow with under 100g carbs, and didn’t see much of a difference, and went into a carb up after 5 days to see if I could adapt as quickly. I didn’t have much of a drop off, so I went back to the original under 30g, and went another 5 days… Weight didn’t change. So after a few weeks of this I went for 11 days to adapt, and had the same results, and then after a carbup I went the required 2 full weeks of adaption, and still got nothing. I’ve added in Animal Cuts which always cut me down, and I even added in the ECA stack. I went back and checked all of the other little things out such as my %'s and my diet which is spot on still. I train 5-6 days a week (cardio/speed/agility session in the morning, and lifting at night), gallon of water a day, and 7-8 hours of sleep. I honestly have no idea what’s going wrong here. I just don’t feel like I am fully adapted, and I don’t know the reason why.

I don’t have the complete macro’s right now, but it’s around 2,800 calories.

9:30AM (After cardio session)
5-6 eggs
1 cup of cheddar cheese
2 Hot Dogs

12:30PM
1 Lg. can of chicken breast
3 TBSP of mayonaise

3:30PM
5 Hot Dogs

6:30PM
4 scoops of protein powder (104g protein)
1 Cup of Heavy whipping Cream

8:30PM
1/2 pound of Ground Beef
3 TBSP mayonaise
1 cup of cheddar cheese

10:00PM
1 Cup of 4% Cottage Cheese

Can anyone throw out any ideas at all? Why am I so completely stuck right now? I’ve even increased the volume in my training sessions, and I still have the same rebound. After a 24 hour carb up, I’ll get up to 252, drop down to 246 by Thursday, and then go up to 247-249 by Saturday Morning. Each week it is the exact same thing. I mean it doesn’t even seem as if I am dropping water weight from this diet. The first time I got on this diet I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks, and the second week I was off and not even training. I’ve emailed the doctor 3 times in the past with various questions and never received an answer back. I am way behind my current goals, and I really need some help. So I would really appreciate something here on what is going on.

am i reading this right in one serving you consume 104 grams of protein , or is that the weight of the powder.[/quote]

First of all, I think you need some higher quality fats/meats. Hot dogs, mayo, cheese, and protein powder is not exactly what this diet is about. They can be thrown in to supplement, but you need more unsaturated oils and high quality RED MEAT. And don’t forget eggs. I’d try to get half your calories from red meat at least and keep those saturated fats under 1/3 of total fats.

Were you doing a maintenance diet during the two weeks or a low calorie diet. Doc Di says to use the maintenance diet to get your body to adjust properly. In addition, without knowing your body very well, it sounds like overtraining to me. Training 6 times a week while 1700 calories under maintenance is blatant overtraining in my book. As you are cutting back calories, you should be cutting back the volume of your training to prevent catabolism and loss of strength (like you were experiencing previously). Maybe low volume total body lifts twice a week. The reduction of calories will take care of the fat, just do it slowly to prevent your body from going into emergency storage mode.

9307

[quote]KingIndy wrote:
dza1978 wrote:
fullback7 wrote:
I keep having problems on this diet.

The first time I went on which was March-August 09’ I dropped weight instantly, but my strength went way down. I even had to come off the diet because I was eating 3k over maintenance and still dropping weight when I decided to bulk up. So I switched to a traditional clean bulk, i.e. 50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat.

So once I finished bulking up, which I saw my weight shoot up incredibly fast I decided to move back into the AD. I started off slow with under 100g carbs, and didn’t see much of a difference, and went into a carb up after 5 days to see if I could adapt as quickly. I didn’t have much of a drop off, so I went back to the original under 30g, and went another 5 days… Weight didn’t change. So after a few weeks of this I went for 11 days to adapt, and had the same results, and then after a carbup I went the required 2 full weeks of adaption, and still got nothing.

I’ve added in Animal Cuts which always cut me down, and I even added in the ECA stack. I went back and checked all of the other little things out such as my %'s and my diet which is spot on still.

I train 5-6 days a week (cardio/speed/agility session in the morning, and lifting at night), gallon of water a day, and 7-8 hours of sleep. I honestly have no idea what’s going wrong here. I just don’t feel like I am fully adapted, and I don’t know the reason why.

I don’t have the complete macro’s right now, but it’s around 2,800 calories.

9:30AM (After cardio session)
5-6 eggs
1 cup of cheddar cheese
2 Hot Dogs

12:30PM
1 Lg. can of chicken breast
3 TBSP of mayonaise

3:30PM
5 Hot Dogs

6:30PM
4 scoops of protein powder (104g protein)
1 Cup of Heavy whipping Cream

8:30PM
1/2 pound of Ground Beef
3 TBSP mayonaise
1 cup of cheddar cheese

10:00PM
1 Cup of 4% Cottage Cheese

Can anyone throw out any ideas at all? Why am I so completely stuck right now? I’ve even increased the volume in my training sessions, and I still have the same rebound.

After a 24 hour carb up, I’ll get up to 252, drop down to 246 by Thursday, and then go up to 247-249 by Saturday Morning. Each week it is the exact same thing. I mean it doesn’t even seem as if I am dropping water weight from this diet.

The first time I got on this diet I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks, and the second week I was off and not even training. I’ve emailed the doctor 3 times in the past with various questions and never received an answer back.

I am way behind my current goals, and I really need some help. So I would really appreciate something here on what is going on.

am i reading this right in one serving you consume 104 grams of protein , or is that the weight of the powder.

First of all, I think you need some higher quality fats/meats. Hot dogs, mayo, cheese, and protein powder is not exactly what this diet is about. They can be thrown in to supplement, but you need more unsaturated oils and high quality RED MEAT. And don’t forget eggs. I’d try to get half your calories from red meat at least and keep those saturated fats under 1/3 of total fats.

Were you doing a maintenance diet during the two weeks or a low calorie diet. Doc Di says to use the maintenance diet to get your body to adjust properly.

In addition, without knowing your body very well, it sounds like overtraining to me. Training 6 times a week while 1700 calories under maintenance is blatant overtraining in my book. As you are cutting back calories, you should be cutting back the volume of your training to prevent catabolism and loss of strength (like you were experiencing previously).

Maybe low volume total body lifts twice a week. The reduction of calories will take care of the fat, just do it slowly to prevent your body from going into emergency storage mode.[/quote]

52g 30 minutes before workout, and 52g, after.

I also add in Olive oil, CLA, Sesamin, and fish Oil, but didn’t mention it there.

I first got off of my bulk rather slow. And slowly transitioned into the AD. I started off with around 100g of carbs each day. I first went into a 5 day adaption with 100g per day. I then started back and went into 30g/day with a 2 day carb up. My results were minimal, so I figured I wasn’t fully adapted and skipped my carb up, and went the newly required 2 weeks, then carb up.

I still had no budge so a few weeks later, I figured something went wrong, and uped the calories to make sure I was adapted, and still I am stuck here today.

The first time I tried this diet I didn’t really do the required number of calories to begin with. I was probably going 1,000 under what was recommended. I also didn’t really keep track of my ratio’s either. I was still just dropping weight almost uncontrollably. Even when I went up to 7,000 calories at 220 it was the same, so I dropped the diet.

My strength just went way down when I first started. Even when I was bulking at 7,000 calories my strength was still stagnated. However now, my strength hasn’t changed at all, and some lifts have actually improved somewhat.

As far as over training, I took most of last week off. I hit my ME lower and upper lifts on Monday and Wed. then coasted the rest of the week with no stressful work. During this week I got down to my same weight which is 246 by Thursday.

There was no strenuous activity, and only those two lifts during the week. Now this week I have begun my regime, except I took monday training off, and trained plus lifted on Tuesday, and Thursday (will also lift and run on Sat. & Sun.) My weight hasn’t reached where it usually hits which is 246, it’s right back up around 248-249, and hasn’t budged.

Measurements are the same, the mirror test is the same, and the scale is the same. It is really baffling to me. I also thought my body was becoming locked down, but with almost a full weeks rest, and the fact I really couldn’t even lose water weight with Animal Cuts, and it’s diuretics is really puzzling to me.

Especially since I am doing the same things as before on this diet.

9308

[quote]KingIndy wrote:
dza1978 wrote:
fullback7 wrote:
I keep having problems on this diet.

The first time I went on which was March-August 09’ I dropped weight instantly, but my strength went way down. I even had to come off the diet because I was eating 3k over maintenance and still dropping weight when I decided to bulk up. So I switched to a traditional clean bulk, i.e. 50% carbs, 35% protein, 15% fat.

So once I finished bulking up, which I saw my weight shoot up incredibly fast I decided to move back into the AD. I started off slow with under 100g carbs, and didn’t see much of a difference, and went into a carb up after 5 days to see if I could adapt as quickly.

I didn’t have much of a drop off, so I went back to the original under 30g, and went another 5 days… Weight didn’t change. So after a few weeks of this I went for 11 days to adapt, and had the same results, and then after a carbup I went the required 2 full weeks of adaption, and still got nothing.

I’ve added in Animal Cuts which always cut me down, and I even added in the ECA stack. I went back and checked all of the other little things out such as my %'s and my diet which is spot on still.

I train 5-6 days a week (cardio/speed/agility session in the morning, and lifting at night), gallon of water a day, and 7-8 hours of sleep. I honestly have no idea what’s going wrong here. I just don’t feel like I am fully adapted, and I don’t know the reason why.

I don’t have the complete macro’s right now, but it’s around 2,800 calories.

9:30AM (After cardio session)
5-6 eggs
1 cup of cheddar cheese
2 Hot Dogs

12:30PM
1 Lg. can of chicken breast
3 TBSP of mayonaise

3:30PM
5 Hot Dogs

6:30PM
4 scoops of protein powder (104g protein)
1 Cup of Heavy whipping Cream

8:30PM
1/2 pound of Ground Beef
3 TBSP mayonaise
1 cup of cheddar cheese

10:00PM
1 Cup of 4% Cottage Cheese

Can anyone throw out any ideas at all? Why am I so completely stuck right now? I’ve even increased the volume in my training sessions, and I still have the same rebound. After a 24 hour carb up, I’ll get up to 252, drop down to 246 by Thursday, and then go up to 247-249 by Saturday Morning. Each week it is the exact same thing. I mean it doesn’t even seem as if I am dropping water weight from this diet.

The first time I got on this diet I dropped 10 pounds in two weeks, and the second week I was off and not even training. I’ve emailed the doctor 3 times in the past with various questions and never received an answer back. I am way behind my current goals, and I really need some help. So I would really appreciate something here on what is going on.

am i reading this right in one serving you consume 104 grams of protein , or is that the weight of the powder.

First of all, I think you need some higher quality fats/meats. Hot dogs, mayo, cheese, and protein powder is not exactly what this diet is about. They can be thrown in to supplement, but you need more unsaturated oils and high quality RED MEAT.

And don’t forget eggs. I’d try to get half your calories from red meat at least and keep those saturated fats under 1/3 of total fats.

Were you doing a maintenance diet during the two weeks or a low calorie diet. Doc Di says to use the maintenance diet to get your body to adjust properly. In addition, without knowing your body very well, it sounds like overtraining to me. Training 6 times a week while 1700 calories under maintenance is blatant overtraining in my book. As you are cutting back calories, you should be cutting back the volume of your training to prevent catabolism and loss of strength (like you were experiencing previously).

Maybe low volume total body lifts twice a week. The reduction of calories will take care of the fat, just do it slowly to prevent your body from going into emergency storage mode.[/quote]

52g 30 minutes before workout, and 52g, after.

I also add in Olive oil, CLA, Sesamin, and fish Oil, but didn’t mention it there.

I first got off of my bulk rather slow. And slowly transitioned into the AD. I started off with around 100g of carbs each day. I first went into a 5 day adaption with 100g per day. I then started back and went into 30g/day with a 2 day carb up.

My results were minimal, so I figured I wasn’t fully adapted and skipped my carb up, and went the newly required 2 weeks, then carb up. I still had no budge so a few weeks later, I figured something went wrong, and uped the calories to make sure I was adapted, and still I am stuck here today.

The first time I tried this diet I didn’t really do the required number of calories to begin with. I was probably going 1,000 under what was recommended. I also didn’t really keep track of my ratio’s either. I was still just dropping weight almost uncontrollably. Even when I went up to 7,000 calories at 220 it was the same, so I dropped the diet.

My strength just went way down when I first started. Even when I was bulking at 7,000 calories my strength was still stagnated. However now, my strength hasn’t changed at all, and some lifts have actually improved somewhat.

As far as over training, I took most of last week off. I hit my ME lower and upper lifts on Monday and Wed. then coasted the rest of the week with no stressful work. During this week I got down to my same weight which is 246 by Thursday.

There was no strenuous activity, and only those two lifts during the week. Now this week I have begun my regime, except I took monday training off, and trained plus lifted on Tuesday, and Thursday (will also lift and run on Sat. & Sun.) My weight hasn’t reached where it usually hits which is 246, it’s right back up around 248-249, and hasn’t budged.

Measurements are the same, the mirror test is the same, and the scale is the same. It is really baffling to me.

I also thought my body was becoming locked down, but with almost a full weeks rest, and the fact I really couldn’t even lose water weight with Animal Cuts, and it’s diuretics is really puzzling to me. Especially since I am doing the same things as before on this diet.

9309

Tough to figure out, I haven’t been on the AD for long but after about 3 weeks, my strength has gone up and I am eating maintenance calories of about 3,500, with carb ups at about 4,500 on Saturday and Sunday, weigh about 195, gained about 2 pounds since starting…

All i could tell you is to keep at it and give your body time to adjust, this diet is meant to be changed up, but I believe manipulating variables to quickly will not give you enough time to see if it is “working” or not.

Anyway I agree with previous post as to get higher quality fats/meats. I would only take in maybe 1 hotdog a day, even though its “fat” its not “good fat.” Drop a significant amount of hotdogs, mayonnaise and cheese.

Some of the things on my diet now are:
heavy whipping cream (careful, high sat. fat) same with cheese
Plenty of olive and fish oil and flax seed
Eggs and bacon every morning
whey protein shakes with olive oil, pre and post-workout
sausage, pork, ground beef are some of my meats, throwing in a steak here and there when I can afford it.

Best of luck man, keep with it and remember the AD is not for EVERYONE.

9310

oh yah DO NOT forget vegetables, they do not count towards your total carbs (make sure to keep under 30g, especially when cutting) I typically have about 5-6 servings a day alternating between spinach and broccoli, helps you get your fiber, I also take a fiber supplement

9311

Great stuff DJS. I too like hearing about peoples success with this diet, those who stuck with it and those who fell off the bandwagon. Open-mindedness with this diet is key.

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in this thread yet but for those who haven’t discovered it, there is a parallel thread that is only 5 pages long with some really great information. CT gives some great advice concerning carb loads and supplementation on low-carb diets. Got me thinking twice about how my carb load will be after induction.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/bodybuilding_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=2108681&pageNo=0

9312

TITT MATIBAY - Thanks for the link. That thread is great.

It seems to me that if one follows the AD correctly - which means finding your own individual amount for carb ups (not just binging on sweets for full two days) and eating healthy foods - the AD comes much closer to CT’s recommendations. For lean people, they may be the same.

With this in mind, could someone clarify something for me… when trying to find your carb up amount on the AD, you’re supposed to carb up until you begin to “smooth out”. I’m not sure what this means. Could someone describe in more detail how one feels when one has had enough carbs on the carb up days? What are the tell-tale signs? Thanks.

9313

This is my first week of cutting, focusing on a relaxed 2400-2600 range in cals. I think I’ve dropped a lb, but not sure as I haven’t had many opportunities for accurate measurement. I got calipers too, so I’ll be able to follow a suprailliac skinfold trend.

I’ve really tried to look at my sources objectively and check out ways to make the diet more efficient. I’m nixing the bacon once I’m done with it, except for the one package of apple-smoked I just HAD to try before they retire. I’m looking at lower-fat versions of the same items for an easy way to eliminate fat cals without protein. I’m still on cheese, but things like pepperoni or anything with nitrites/nitrates are out. I just can’t stand the guilt from what the potential effects on my body are, especially when I don’t even like deli meats that much.

I bought some chicken thighs for a change, especially since I haven’t even had that specific chicken part in a number of years. More asparagus, spinach, romaine, broccoli…and a ton more eggs. I have about 60 eggs in my fridge right now, and they’re not going to last long.

I’m limiting carb loads to ~150g a day now as per Dr. Di’s recommendation. I’m thinking 75g of workout carbs with the other 75 distributed across three meals since I usually only use a serving of oats/pasta/whatever per meal. I’m trimming visible fat off my meat, and may I recommend for those who haven’t figured this out already…buying eye of round or bottom round (in particular) beef cuts (the big footballs of meat) is relatively cheap at $3-4 a lb. What I do is butcher them into 150-250g steaks, freeze and thaw them as I need them. They’re delicious, tender if cooked medium rare, and far cheaper than many other steak cuts.

Much more wheat germ and flaxmeal during my week, as well.

I’m beyond thankful at the things I’ve learned through the necessity of keeping a dietary log on this diet. I’ve figured out so many past problems and can much more easily isolate and solve my current ones.

9314

[quote]bigdaveo1988 wrote:
oh yah DO NOT forget vegetables, they do not count towards your total carbs (make sure to keep under 30g, especially when cutting) I typically have about 5-6 servings a day alternating between spinach and broccoli, helps you get your fiber, I also take a fiber supplement[/quote]

Only certain vegetables are basically “free” after you’ve adjusted to the diet. This is at least after the induction period…some may argue longer. Here’s a list from earlier in the thread:

Asparagus
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Celery
Lettuce
Mushrooms
Radish
Spinach.

9315

[quote]TITI MATIBAY wrote:
Great stuff DJS. I too like hearing about peoples success with this diet, those who stuck with it and those who fell off the bandwagon. Open-mindedness with this diet is key.

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in this thread yet but for those who haven’t discovered it, there is a parallel thread that is only 5 pages long with some really great information. CT gives some great advice concerning carb loads and supplementation on low-carb diets. Got me thinking twice about how my carb load will be after induction.

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/bodybuilding_on_the_anabolic_diet?id=2108681&pageNo=0[/quote]

Hey great link! Modok’s results were amazing! Very good stuff.

9316

Today I feel like hell following what was my longest carb-up, a day and a half’s worth. I had a really weird sleep cycle this weekend, so I’m not 100% sure the carbs are the reason for it. I’m definitely thinking of restricting the carb-ups to a much more limited amount going forward.

9317

here’s an idea I have been kicking around in my brain for a while:
When on the AD, your primary purpose behind the carb-up is the insulin response to store nutrients.
The subsequent drop in insulin promotes the use of fat as fuel and release of GH and IGF-1 etc etc.
SO…if the main goal is to get cut, wouldn’t it make sense to do a dull depletion workout the day after the load ends??
this would simply be a circuit style-high rep workout done till the signs of glycogen depletion (‘the wall’) hits.
I tried it and it took me 69 mins to hit the point where I just wanted to sleep on the bench.

IF this is done…you burn more fat during the week before your next carb up.
Your body will maintain the minimum glycogen from the 30g per day which will fuel workouts

THIS IS ONLY IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAXIMIZE FAT LOSS NOT GAIN SIZE. for that I guess any old lifting routine will work fine.

9318

What do you have to back this thought-process up, Evil1?

I just read that linked thread today and am starting to believe (for fat loss), I should be following more of CT’s protocol. That is, limiting my carbing to 150g total. I think my first carb load was 600-800g total, while the last one was probably 400g total. The carbs seem unnecessary to me and make me feel like I’m losing progress. I feel fatter to be honest. I’m thinking I should just be freer in my food choices (more vegetables and things with trace carbs that I stay away from because of it) while only taking a heavy workout drink on both Saturday and Sunday, consisting of 25g dextrose/16g whey during and 50g dex/32g whey following. There I have my two 75g totalling 150. If I feel I’d rather use them elsewhere, maybe I’ll cut the shake on the ‘easier’ day.

I keep thinking I should be doing HIIT cardio. What is the AD thought on this? I feel like I can’t use any of my prior experience to judge because of the unique nature of this diet.

9319

I felt the exact same way after my i had two weekend carb-ups, about 800g of carbs on both saturday and sunday, although I went into the next week’s workout with ton’s of energy, slowly declining until Friday i felt like crap. I am not trying to lose huge amounts of weight, but I am thinking by limiting carb-ups to one day and then playing around with the totals for that day, around 150g like you said being the lowest and keep increasing at your own personal discretion, the other AD thread posted earlier talks about this a bunch, limiting carb-ups significantly.

9320

[quote]Evil1 wrote:
here’s an idea I have been kicking around in my brain for a while:
When on the AD, your primary purpose behind the carb-up is the insulin response to store nutrients.
The subsequent drop in insulin promotes the use of fat as fuel and release of GH and IGF-1 etc etc.
SO…if the main goal is to get cut, wouldn’t it make sense to do a dull depletion workout the day after the load ends??
this would simply be a circuit style-high rep workout done till the signs of glycogen depletion (‘the wall’) hits.
I tried it and it took me 69 mins to hit the point where I just wanted to sleep on the bench.

IF this is done…you burn more fat during the week before your next carb up.
Your body will maintain the minimum glycogen from the 30g per day which will fuel workouts

THIS IS ONLY IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAXIMIZE FAT LOSS NOT GAIN SIZE. for that I guess any old lifting routine will work fine.[/quote]

imo then why carb up? The point of the carb up is also to replenish muscle glycogen so you dont feel like a bag of ass in the gym over the next week. Plus a 69 minute circuit session seems highly catabolic to me. Just keep the carb ups to your post workout drink, solid meal an hour after that, and then maybe your next solid meal after that, one day a week. This is basically what CT recommends, and what I’ve used the one time I decided to get really lean.

9321

your carb up does more than just shove the glycogen.
And it is possible to fuel workouts on a low carb approach without refeeds (theres a recent thread about this by ‘denny_mederios’.)

The insulin surge and subsequent fall results in a boost in GH, IGF-1 and test. However, for someone who finds that carb ups are hard to control or that they fill out too quickly, this can ensure they have adequate room to not worry about the carb up.

Earlier in this thread, DH acknowledged the fact that the keystone of the AD is the fat adapted metabolism, and having your body run on fats for longer periods of time makes it more efficient at it.
Maybe this could be a way to hasten the fat adaptation process??

It’s just an idea. and I doubt very much that a single long workout will be any more catabolic than a regular workout, unless you don’t have enough aminos.

9322

The following is pulled directly from CT.

He goes on to address that the insulin spikes from glutamine and glycine are short-lived (as compared to carb induced spikes) and do not interfere with the adaptation process.
So yeah, initially being glycogen depleted makes you feel like shit, but the entire point of the diet is getting you to a stage where energy levels and mood do not change with glycogen concentrations