My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

CaliforniaLaw · June 9, 2007, 1:49am

[quote]Hagar wrote:
Your muscles will fill up with the carb up. Its really cool when you go to the gym and think “damn this 45 lb plate feels light”
[/quote]

I like when, about 30 minutes after I eat some carbs, the veins in my arms, chest/shoulders, and calves start popping out. I have good vascularity overall, but once I get some carbs in my system, the things really show themselves.

CappedAndPlanIt · June 9, 2007, 2:26am

Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.

Is the induction phase strictly low carb (instead of carb cycling) to better ensure fat adaption?

Basically, I’m wondering:

Should I stay low carb till I’m sure I’ve fat adapted, or start with the carb cycling right away?

Will having a high carb day before I’m fat adapted keep me from becoming fat adapted longer?

Tiribulus · June 9, 2007, 3:14am

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.

Is the induction phase strictly low carb (instead of carb cycling) to better ensure fat adaption?

Basically, I’m wondering:

Should I stay low carb till I’m sure I’ve fat adapted, or start with the carb cycling right away?

Will having a high carb day before I’m fat adapted keep me from becoming fat adapted longer? [/quote]

During the induction you need very high fat and very low carb intake. Twelve days is a good idea though most people will shift before that. For most, a “crash” lasting 12-24 hours is the unmistakable sign that your metabolism has gotten the message that it’s only choice for regular fuel is lipids rather than glucose. Mine lasted from late afternoon of one day until the next morning.

Hard to describe. Felt kinda hungover and toxified. Achy, tired and drowsy. Totally normal. However even after that it still took me several weeks to settle in where energy could be predicted from day to day. It’ll be a year in August. I can’t imagine going back.

InTheZone · June 9, 2007, 3:37am

Yes, it’s water weight. You will seem leaner as you won’t be holding and thus showing as much subcutaneous water. Your muscles will soon get “flat,” though. Like a balloon that has lost half its air. Don’t let that demoralize you. It just comes with the territory.

Ok, I did notice that although I look leaner in the chest and midsection, my abs still have a small amount of “love handleage” on the obliques, and waist is maybe only a half inch down. It “feels” leaner but you can see what you’re talking about, the machinery hasn’t started really burning any fat yet.

The flat look, I hope that is only during the induction? And then once adapted do you just basicly go back and forth from leaning out, filling up…?

At any rate I am looking forward to the crash…lol.

Just had a nice top sirloin with some broccoli and “real” mayonnaise. Boy sure have missed that taste!

InTheZone · June 9, 2007, 3:47am

Awesome, it must be great to get that feeling and watch the muscles just load up like that! Reminds me of Arnold in pumping iron, when they were talking about the pump in the gym, and Arnie’s sitting there just shakin his bicep as his arm was hangin down…that was something else, 22 inches of pumped bicep.

I got this peanut butter it’s made from soy, called I.M. Healthy. Total CHO-6g,Diet.fiber-5g. total fat-15g, protein-9g per 2 Tblsp. What do you guys think I should really rate the CHO at?

The label says net 1 carb. I know the net carb deals aren’t always on the money, what do you guys think? It would be nice to slam some of this down here and there!

Sayjin · June 9, 2007, 3:55am

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
This is what I do:
2-3 tbsp. whipping cream
5 raw omega 3 eggs
2 tsps. vanilla extract
cinnamon
nutmeg

If you worried about saturates you can do 1 tbsp olive oil in place of cream.

Pour it all in glass and just beat it with a fork. Down the hatch. I promise you, you never thought the AD could taste so good.

[/quote]

Thanks Greek, I’ll be giving this a try soon!

Just one more question as well, for anyone who can help shed some light. I’ve been on the AD for 3 months, and have seen great gains and have leaned out a bit. The only concern is that aside from 1 week out of all this time, I’ve had a massive case of the yawns, most of which are difficult to get out which is just annoying.

This has also led to consistently low energy levels (nothing I cant power through, but it shouldnt be all the time)except for on carb up days where I feel ready to go. I feel as if I should try bumping my daily carb intake up to 40 a day perhaps for a week and see how I feel.

Suggestions?

AlphaDragon · June 9, 2007, 4:51am

[quote]Sayjin wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
This is what I do:
2-3 tbsp. whipping cream
5 raw omega 3 eggs
2 tsps. vanilla extract
cinnamon
nutmeg

If you worried about saturates you can do 1 tbsp olive oil in place of cream.

Pour it all in glass and just beat it with a fork. Down the hatch. I promise you, you never thought the AD could taste so good.

Thanks Greek, I’ll be giving this a try soon!

Just one more question as well, for anyone who can help shed some light. I’ve been on the AD for 3 months, and have seen great gains and have leaned out a bit. The only concern is that aside from 1 week out of all this time, I’ve had a massive case of the yawns, most of which are difficult to get out which is just annoying.

This has also led to consistently low energy levels (nothing I cant power through, but it shouldnt be all the time)except for on carb up days where I feel ready to go. I feel as if I should try bumping my daily carb intake up to 40 a day perhaps for a week and see how I feel.

Suggestions?

[/quote]

Not to belittle you or to sound like a smartass, but (about the yawns) are you sure you’re getting enough sleep? I don’t have this problem at all.

Consistently low energy levels is not normal on the AD. Are you certain there are no “hidden carbs” in the foods you eat? Some drinks (coffee, for example) have carbs too.

Are you absolutely sure you have no hidden carbs?

AD

Hagar · June 9, 2007, 5:29am

Ya those carbs can be sneaky. Their in my eggs, my joint supplement, my protein powders, and my morning coffee. I’ll just have 2 to 3 meals a day of pure meat. Zero carbs.

I got 10 lbs or grass feed ground beef. Its delicious way better than the regular stuff. Just don’t over cook it. I also get this fatty salmon thats tastes like butter. Its the best I ever had but its pricey.

greekdawg · June 9, 2007, 5:51am

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Sayjin wrote:
I’ve had a massive case of the yawns, most of which are difficult to get out which is just annoying.

This has also led to consistently low energy levels (nothing I cant power through, but it shouldnt be all the time)except for on carb up days where I feel ready to go. I feel as if I should try bumping my daily carb intake up to 40 a day perhaps for a week and see how I feel.

Suggestions?

Not to belittle you or to sound like a smartass, but (about the yawns) are you sure you’re getting enough sleep? I don’t have this problem at all.

Consistently low energy levels is not normal on the AD. Are you certain there are no “hidden carbs” in the foods you eat? Some drinks (coffee, for example) have carbs too.

Are you absolutely sure you have no hidden carbs?

AD[/quote]

You know what’s funny? Everyone says carbs gives you energy, everytime I eat carbs I’m literally sleeping 30 mins later, bad or good carbs. Like they literally knock me out. But when I eat protein/fat/veggies like most of my meals I have energy and am never hungry.

And to address your qestion like Alpha said make sure you have no hidden carbs. Also you may need to up your fats. Fats will take the place of carbs for your main energy source in this diet. So make sure you’re getting enough fat. Some people inadvertly do high protein, and not enough fat when it should be high fat, med-high protein.

Leeuwer · June 9, 2007, 5:54am

I scanned the thread, but couldn’t really find anything on this topic in particular(namely : carb and calorie cycling on the AD).

Anyway, take this as a hypothetical situation, as a means of gaining muscle, with little fat :

Day 1 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 2 : Med carb day(400 grams)
Day 3 : AD(rest day - low calories)
Day 4 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 5 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 6 : High carb day(700-800 grams)
Day 7 : AD

I’ve tried to combine Dr.Dipasquale’s views together with those of Justin Harris, who adds higher carb days, while keeping fat higher on the other days.

I know Dr.Dipasquale talks about adding some carbs if you still don’t feel 100%(the weeks after the transition fase, that is), and I’ve found this to work really well in terms of recovery.

Since the PWO carbs are ingested at such a prime time, I take it insulin levels will be back down to baseline very quickly.

Can anyone shed some light on this ?

Would this be a smart thing to do ? Why so/why not ?

Remember, this is about gaining muscle, not losing fat per se in this particular instance.

(NOTE : I’ve been using this template, BUT I haven’t added the Medium Card up day yet - all the other factors are the same)

AlphaDragon · June 9, 2007, 8:04am

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Sayjin wrote:
I’ve had a massive case of the yawns, most of which are difficult to get out which is just annoying.

This has also led to consistently low energy levels (nothing I cant power through, but it shouldnt be all the time)except for on carb up days where I feel ready to go. I feel as if I should try bumping my daily carb intake up to 40 a day perhaps for a week and see how I feel.

Suggestions?

Not to belittle you or to sound like a smartass, but (about the yawns) are you sure you’re getting enough sleep? I don’t have this problem at all.

Consistently low energy levels is not normal on the AD. Are you certain there are no “hidden carbs” in the foods you eat? Some drinks (coffee, for example) have carbs too.

Are you absolutely sure you have no hidden carbs?

AD

You know what’s funny? Everyone says carbs gives you energy, everytime I eat carbs I’m literally sleeping 30 mins later, bad or good carbs. Like they literally knock me out. But when I eat protein/fat/veggies like most of my meals I have energy and am never hungry.

And to address your qestion like Alpha said make sure you have no hidden carbs. Also you may need to up your fats. Fats will take the place of carbs for your main energy source in this diet. So make sure you’re getting enough fat. Some people inadvertly do high protein, and not enough fat when it should be high fat, med-high protein.[/quote]

Totally agree…except for it feeling like a “treat”, I don’t like carbs (thus, carb-up days) too much because they make me feel dead to the world (“lethargic” does not seem to encompass the feeling for me. )

Heck, it’s nigh impossible for me to get a good training session in duiring carb-ups, so like others have said before, I try to start my CHO-ups post workout (Sat or Fri) and ride the roller coaster of lethargy until Sunday.

And yes, up the fats (It’s ok to be up to 65% for most people). As it is our energy source on the AD, it’s appropriate to do.

AD

AlphaDragon · June 9, 2007, 8:13am

[quote]Leeuwer wrote:
I scanned the thread, but couldn’t really find anything on this topic in particular(namely : carb and calorie cycling on the AD).

Anyway, take this as a hypothetical situation, as a means of gaining muscle, with little fat :

Day 1 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 2 : Med carb day(400 grams)
Day 3 : AD(rest day - low calories)
Day 4 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 5 : AD + 30 grams carbs PWO
Day 6 : High carb day(700-800 grams)
Day 7 : AD

I’ve tried to combine Dr.Dipasquale’s views together with those of Justin Harris, who adds higher carb days, while keeping fat higher on the other days.

I know Dr.Dipasquale talks about adding some carbs if you still don’t feel 100%(the weeks after the transition fase, that is), and I’ve found this to work really well in terms of recovery.

Since the PWO carbs are ingested at such a prime time, I take it insulin levels will be back down to baseline very quickly.

Can anyone shed some light on this ?

Would this be a smart thing to do ? Why so/why not ?

Remember, this is about gaining muscle, not losing fat per se in this particular instance.

(NOTE : I’ve been using this template, BUT I haven’t added the Medium Card up day yet - all the other factors are the same)
[/quote]

A few pages back (2, I think), our resident AD Guru (Disc Hoss…or DH for short) posted some info about the post workout carbs and how it’s not a necessity on the AD. WHile I don’t think I can qualify it well enough, he sure did, if I remember right. You may want to check those posts.

Personally, I still stick to the basic AD guidelines (after 8 months) and it works great for me without mixing/matching different researchers and methods. Sure, I’ll treat myself to a carb spike on an odd day sometimes (situationally, normally…meaning if a social thing comes up), but because I have stuck to the AD almost precisely the benefits keep on comin’.

As for calorie cycling…I think it’s a great idea as long as you measure caloric consumption on a weekly level and ingest that particular amount in total. I remember quite a few people on the thread suggesting it…even stating that the benefits cannot be expressed enough.

Admittedly, I have not experimented with this yet, and I really should, but overall it is a great idea!

Carb cycling…I’m not studied up on this topic so much, but in my laymans opinion you want to stay within guidelines (under 30g CHO/day on low carb days) to ensure we stay in fat-burning mode. Also see above about post workout CHO.

my .02

Let us know how it goes.

AD

Leeuwer · June 9, 2007, 9:25am

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:

A few pages back (2, I think), our resident AD Guru (Disc Hoss…or DH for short) posted some info about the post workout carbs and how it’s not a necessity on the AD. WHile I don’t think I can qualify it well enough, he sure did, if I remember right. You may want to check those posts.

Personally, I still stick to the basic AD guidelines (after 8 months) and it works great for me without mixing/matching different researchers and methods. Sure, I’ll treat myself to a carb spike on an odd day sometimes (situationally, normally…meaning if a social thing comes up), but because I have stuck to the AD almost precisely the benefits keep on comin’.

As for calorie cycling…I think it’s a great idea as long as you measure caloric consumption on a weekly level and ingest that particular amount in total. I remember quite a few people on the thread suggesting it…even stating that the benefits cannot be expressed enough.

Admittedly, I have not experimented with this yet, and I really should, but overall it is a great idea!

Carb cycling…I’m not studied up on this topic so much, but in my laymans opinion you want to stay within guidelines (under 30g CHO/day on low carb days) to ensure we stay in fat-burning mode. Also see above about post workout CHO.

my .02

Let us know how it goes.

AD[/quote]

Thanks, great info.

I should have been a little more specific :

I HAVE found information about post-workout nutrition, as posted by Disc Hoss(I believe you’re referring to a Q&A by Dr.Dipasquale himself, that was posted), which was very informative.

Dr.D doesn’t adress the reduction of cortisol because of the insulin in his post though, which was what my greatest concern was.

Nevertheless, my post was more about the calorie cycling and the 2-day carb up, split in tuesdays and saturdays.

I have to note some stuff though, because I’ve experimented with a lot myself already :

First I went through the normal 12-day transition fase, followed by the saturday carb-up
Next I kept up the normal AD for about 2 weeks
Then I started gradually adding lower calorie days, over a 3-week period and my week began to look like this :

M : AD(med cal : 2200-2500)
T : AD(low cal : 1700-1800)
W : AD(low cal)
T : AD(med cal)
F : AD(low cal)(by this time I felt like absolute shit)
S : High Carb up(800+ grams)
S : Ad(low/med cal - depending on how I was feeling)

This worked good for fat loss, but I had little energy left to train, and my fat loss began to slow down.

So, going by Berardi’s G-Flux(eat more and exercise more, instead of eat less and exercise less), I added 4 30-45 minute cardio sessions, and cut down on the intense interval cardio, which may have fatigued me.

Now my week looks like this :

M : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
T : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
W : AD(low cal)
T : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
F : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
S : High carb day
S : Carb(AM)/AD(med cal)(PM)

I’ve added 30 gram carb PWO shakes not until this week(I can’t draw a lot of conclusions yet - but I’m feeling rather good).

This has sped up my fat loss greatly again, and I’m also gaining a little muscle along the way. Since this is working out so well, I wanted to put my effort again into gaining muscle while losing fat.(hence the first post)

Now, what I want to do, is add another carb day on tuesday, and make the sunday AD med cal; so my week looks like this :

M : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
T : Med carb day + 45 min cardio
W : AD(low cal)
T : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
F : AD(med cal) + 45 min cardio
S : High carb day
S : AD(med cal)

Now, I’m obviously getting in more carbs a day as well as more per week.

Would this still be suitable to keep up the fat-adapted effects of the AD ?

My rationale is that the carb days will speed up my metabolism, and will not cause fat gain since I’m low on glycogen most of the week anyway.

Anyway, I’d love to hear some opinions on this matter.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully some of you find something useful in my experiences too.

CappedAndPlanIt · June 9, 2007, 11:15am

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.

Is the induction phase strictly low carb (instead of carb cycling) to better ensure fat adaption?

Basically, I’m wondering:

Should I stay low carb till I’m sure I’ve fat adapted, or start with the carb cycling right away?

Will having a high carb day before I’m fat adapted keep me from becoming fat adapted longer?

During the induction you need very high fat and very low carb intake. Twelve days is a good idea though most people will shift before that. For most, a “crash” lasting 12-24 hours is the unmistakable sign that your metabolism has gotten the message that it’s only choice for regular fuel is lipids rather than glucose. Mine lasted from late afternoon of one day until the next morning.

Hard to describe. Felt kinda hungover and toxified. Achy, tired and drowsy. Totally normal. However even after that it still took me several weeks to settle in where energy could be predicted from day to day. It’ll be a year in August. I can’t imagine going back.[/quote]

Hm. Ok, well, for now I’ll keep my “cheat day” still-not-high-carb.

I’ve just been looking foreward to IHOP and some pancakes all week, I’ll be damned if I dont have them.

I’m sorry if I should have understood this from your post, but I dont feel like I do: Will carbing up before I’m fully fat adapted keep me from ever becoming fat adapted? Or just make the process take longer?

greekdawg · June 9, 2007, 2:29pm

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.

Is the induction phase strictly low carb (instead of carb cycling) to better ensure fat adaption?

Basically, I’m wondering:

Should I stay low carb till I’m sure I’ve fat adapted, or start with the carb cycling right away?

Will having a high carb day before I’m fat adapted keep me from becoming fat adapted longer?

During the induction you need very high fat and very low carb intake. Twelve days is a good idea though most people will shift before that. For most, a “crash” lasting 12-24 hours is the unmistakable sign that your metabolism has gotten the message that it’s only choice for regular fuel is lipids rather than glucose. Mine lasted from late afternoon of one day until the next morning.

Hard to describe. Felt kinda hungover and toxified. Achy, tired and drowsy. Totally normal. However even after that it still took me several weeks to settle in where energy could be predicted from day to day. It’ll be a year in August. I can’t imagine going back.

Hm. Ok, well, for now I’ll keep my “cheat day” still-not-high-carb.

I’ve just been looking foreward to IHOP and some pancakes all week, I’ll be damned if I dont have them.

I’m sorry if I should have understood this from your post, but I dont feel like I do: Will carbing up before I’m fully fat adapted keep me from ever becoming fat adapted? Or just make the process take longer?
[/quote]

If this is your first time on the AD, I would definitely run the full 12-14 days to make sure your body gets the message. I wouldn’t play with it starting out.

AlphaDragon · June 9, 2007, 3:48pm

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.

Is the induction phase strictly low carb (instead of carb cycling) to better ensure fat adaption?

Basically, I’m wondering:

Should I stay low carb till I’m sure I’ve fat adapted, or start with the carb cycling right away?

Will having a high carb day before I’m fat adapted keep me from becoming fat adapted longer?

During the induction you need very high fat and very low carb intake. Twelve days is a good idea though most people will shift before that. For most, a “crash” lasting 12-24 hours is the unmistakable sign that your metabolism has gotten the message that it’s only choice for regular fuel is lipids rather than glucose. Mine lasted from late afternoon of one day until the next morning.

Hard to describe. Felt kinda hungover and toxified. Achy, tired and drowsy. Totally normal. However even after that it still took me several weeks to settle in where energy could be predicted from day to day. It’ll be a year in August. I can’t imagine going back.

Hm. Ok, well, for now I’ll keep my “cheat day” still-not-high-carb.

I’ve just been looking foreward to IHOP and some pancakes all week, I’ll be damned if I dont have them.

I’m sorry if I should have understood this from your post, but I dont feel like I do: Will carbing up before I’m fully fat adapted keep me from ever becoming fat adapted? Or just make the process take longer?

If this is your first time on the AD, I would definitely run the full 12-14 days to make sure your body gets the message. I wouldn’t play with it starting out.[/quote]

Fully agreed. If one does not fullfill the 12-14 day break in period, it may well take months to become fully fat-adapted.

AD

CappedAndPlanIt · June 9, 2007, 4:03pm

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Someone a few posts ago mentioned a 12-day induction phase. I’m not completely familiar with everything about the AD, but it is similar to the T-Dawg diet I’m on now.