My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
SashaG wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:

I do HIIT mainly because I find traditional cardio boring. I also love the winded feeling HIIT gives me. It’s very satisfying. I want to do cardio to maintain good all-around health.

Quick question: I’m eating the reccommended 3000 calories a day(BW x 18) but I walk a lot. I must walk 5 miles total throughout the day, including a 3 mile walk with my dog towards the end of the day. Should I be eating more to compensate for this?
[/quote]

abcd1234,

Yes you should be eating to accomodate this activity if you are trying to gain . . . especially if you are doing HIIT the same days as you are walking. With HIIT there’s an afterburn effect from the activity that helps to increase caloric burn across other activities. This is why HIIT while bulking can be counter productive unless you really want to eat a lot.

I would recommend gradualy increasing your overall weekly caloric intake and making adjustments based on those results.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]SashaG wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
SashaG wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:

I do HIIT mainly because I find traditional cardio boring. I also love the winded feeling HIIT gives me. It’s very satisfying. I want to do cardio to maintain good all-around health.

Quick question: I’m eating the reccommended 3000 calories a day(BW x 18) but I walk a lot. I must walk 5 miles total throughout the day, including a 3 mile walk with my dog towards the end of the day. Should I be eating more to compensate for this?

abcd1234,

Yes you should be eating to accomodate this activity if you are trying to gain . . . especially if you are doing HIIT the same days as you are walking. With HIIT there’s an afterburn effect from the activity that helps to increase caloric burn across other activities. This is why HIIT while bulking can be counter productive unless you really want to eat a lot.

I would recommend gradualy increasing your overall weekly caloric intake and making adjustments based on those results.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

Alright. Thanks. So I should be eating closer to 3500 calories during this maintainence phase?

When I begin the mass phase(after the first carbup next weekend?), should I gradually up the calories by say, 500 a week, or immediately jump to 20-25 x my bodyweight?

Sorry for so many questions. I’m just a newbie trying to learn as much as I can.I also apologize if I’m making this thread redundant, if my questions have been answered in the last year this thread has existed.

Quick question guys, what’s the verdict on penut butter? Good/bad for the diet?

Here is a tip I figured the other night, maybe you already know it though:

If you need to ingest some protein and fat toward the end of the day (say 1 hour before bed) and you want to take some olive oil with your low carb protein shake:

Take the Olive Oil first and then the Shake, doing it the other way around gave me severe burps for hours and couldn’t sleep… :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Here is a tip I figured the other night, maybe you already know it though:

If you need to ingest some protein and fat toward the end of the day (say 1 hour before bed) and you want to take some olive oil with your low carb protein shake:

Take the Olive Oil first and then the Shake, doing it the other way around gave me severe burps for hours and couldn’t sleep… :P[/quote]

Or mix them together, and drink SLOWLY.

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
SashaG wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
SashaG wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:

Alright. Thanks. So I should be eating closer to 3500 calories during this maintainence phase?

When I begin the mass phase(after the first carbup next weekend?), should I gradually up the calories by say, 500 a week, or immediately jump to 20-25 x my bodyweight?

Sorry for so many questions. I’m just a newbie trying to learn as much as I can.I also apologize if I’m making this thread redundant, if my questions have been answered in the last year this thread has existed.
[/quote]

abcd1234,

I think that 500 cals per week is too little an increase. I would look at about 250 cals per day during the week and match that maximum caloric intake during your carb up. As a benchmark, pick a day during your final week of maintenance, say Wednesday, and assess your physique and weight.

As you gradually make these increases in caloric intake, use that Wednesday as a benchmark and note improvements. As you conitnue through your mass phase, continue to add calories as you see fit.

While a lot has been covered in this thread, everyone is different and needs to apply the AD principles in a way that will benefit them. Don’t be affraid to ask specific questions with the one exception of whether or not we count fibre towards our daily CHO intake . . . :wink:

Cheers,

Sasha

A quick update. Maybe Sasha can briefly address some of this. This is my third carbup weekend. During the intial phase I had good energy all the time even for cardio right up until the first carb up. I noticed a bit of a drag towards the end of the second week, but nothing major. I also managed to avoid to hard a crash. Felt foggy and shitty for one night.

By Thursday of the third week I was feeling pretty dogged, especially my legs. By that Saturday I was achy and tired, but not intolerably so. This didn’t start to subside until Saturday night and was pretty much gone by Sunday night at the end of the load. During the carb loads I didn’t notice too much difference overall in energy or tiredness from weekdays. I did gain several pounds which disappeared by Monday night.

The last 2 weeks the tiredness has pushed itself back to where I didn't really feel it until Friday last week and this week it barely set in at all. All with no change in eating either on weekdays or very clean carbloads. However this week by 2 oclock this afternoon the carb up had me wide mouthed and snoring on the couch. I mean kicked my ass like someone put valium in my oatmeal. This is going away now which is good because I train chest, tri's and shoulders today.

 I said all this to say that what Dr. D and the vets have been hammering home is being shown to be undeniably true in my case. Getting over the shift is just the begining and a full shift and metabolic "settling in" no doubt takes longer. I am still adjusting dramatically and suspect that will continue a while yet. I've gotten stronger, a bit bigger, and a bit leaner, but I'm betting the best is yet to come. 

I wouldn’t think it shocking for it to take a full year for me to learn the particulars of this diet’s effects on me and what tweaking will need to be done. I think some guys are still stuck in the quick stop 7-11 mindset and just don’t give something this different enough time.

–Tiribulus->

[quote]Leon Kennedy wrote:
Quick question guys, what’s the verdict on penut butter? Good/bad for the diet?[/quote]

I have natural peanut butter sometimes, no more than two tablespoons in a day, and usually only one. The one I have is 3g CHO per tablespoon, so just make sure to count that towards your carb total.

[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
Leon Kennedy wrote:
Quick question guys, what’s the verdict on penut butter? Good/bad for the diet?

I have natural peanut butter sometimes, no more than two tablespoons in a day, and usually only one. The one I have is 3g CHO per tablespoon, so just make sure to count that towards your carb total.[/quote]

Oh man, now wonder I was so fucked the first part of my diet. I started off eating tons of the shit, thanks for the tip.

[quote]Leon Kennedy wrote:
Oh man, now wonder I was so fucked the first part of my diet. I started off eating tons of the shit, thanks for the tip.
[/quote]
To quote Disc Hoss, who is the foremost practioner of this way eating on this site “oxygen is free” when it comes to the induction phase. Every other thing that passes your lips must be counted. After you get adapted and tuned up which may take a coupla few months to fully complete, you can start some customization within guidelines.

–Tiribulus->

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
A quick update. Maybe Sasha can briefly address some of this. This is my third carbup weekend. During the intial phase I had good energy all the time even for cardio right up until the first carb up. I noticed a bit of a drag towards the end of the second week, but nothing major. I also managed to avoid to hard a crash. Felt foggy and shitty for one night.

By Thursday of the third week I was feeling pretty dogged, especially my legs. By that Saturday I was achy and tired, but not intolerably so. This didn’t start to subside until Saturday night and was pretty much gone by Sunday night at the end of the load. During the carb loads I didn’t notice too much difference overall in energy or tiredness from weekdays. I did gain several pounds which disappeared by Monday night.

The last 2 weeks the tiredness has pushed itself back to where I didn't really feel it until Friday last week and this week it barely set in at all. All with no change in eating either on weekdays or very clean carbloads. However this week by 2 oclock this afternoon the carb up had me wide mouthed and snoring on the couch. I mean kicked my ass like someone put valium in my oatmeal. This is going away now which is good because I train chest, tri's and shoulders today.

 I said all this to say that what Dr. D and the vets have been hammering home is being shown to be undeniably true in my case. Getting over the shift is just the begining and a full shift and metabolic "settling in" no doubt takes longer. I am still adjusting dramatically and suspect that will continue a while yet. I've gotten stronger, a bit bigger, and a bit leaner, but I'm betting the best is yet to come. 

I wouldn’t think it shocking for it to take a full year for me to learn the particulars of this diet’s effects on me and what tweaking will need to be done. I think some guys are still stuck in the quick stop 7-11 mindset and just don’t give something this different enough time.

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

I cannot agree with the post more. I was on the AD for a little over three months (mid-March to the end of June) and ended up quitting for some reason or another. Here’s my perspective on that experience and advice to those who are struggling or on the fence right now:

-Even though I found that I could eat more calories on the AD and not gain fat, one still has to factor in overall activity levels and adjust accordingly. I loved this diet from the start because my carb-ups were absolutely insane and I was losing fat while gaining some size. However, I was still playing college golf; therefore, my NEPA was through the roof. When my internship for the summer started (a desk job), I didn’t make any adjustments. And this proved to be the beginning of the end for me.

-Just because this diet optimizes hormonal and testosterone levels through manipulating insulin, this does not mean you can eat pizza and drink beer for your entire carb-up. Although I was initially eating a lot of calories during my carb-up, at least four of my six meals for each of the two days were clean while I enjoyed some less than clean treats the other meals. As I progressed, I started eating more junk and weekends eventually became a refined sugar and processed food fest. I also felt like I could get away with a little more alcohol on the weekends; this is definitely not the case. Enjoy a couple of beers or mixed drinks, but turning into a blabbering idiot does not take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity this diet provides.

-In hindsight, a good rule of thumb on weekends is to eat enough carbs each meal to feel full and satisfied, but not so much that you turn into a zombie. Looking back on how well the first six weeks went, this is how I gauged my carb intake for the weekends. Eventually, I thought I could just binge for two days and still look great. Again, this was simply not the case. Although I think reaching body composition goals is easier on this diet than others, moderation is still the key.

-Finally, to those who are struggling, STICK WITH IT!!! DH is right; this diet takes some time to fine-tune. But hang in there; the long-term benefits (muscle gain, fat loss, excellent HDL and LDL cholesterol levels) definitely outweigh the growing pains. It’s like learning how to ride a bike; you have to fall and skin up your knees a few times before you get it right.

All that being said, I’m hopping back on the AD train tomorrow. I have been following a nutrient-timing approach since the end of June and am currently bulking, but I just felt better when I was humming along on the AD. And I also think I am going to be able to put on a lot of mass while keeping the fat gain down compared to my current approach. Here’s my plan:

-Breakfast, lunch, and dinner will provide about 50 grams of protein with fats coming from meats and oils.
-My mid-morning and mid-afternoon snacks will be a half-cup of walnuts.
-I’ll have a casein-protein shake before bed with some natural PB or more olive oil.
-Along with BCAA’s and whey isolate pre, during, and post-training, this should give me ample amounts of protein since protein is actually spared on the AD. I think I’ll also be getting more than enough fats.
-My carb-ups will still be 36 hours, but will feature four clean meals with two “free” meals each day. This worked very well for me personally. It was when I thought I could eat cereal and ice cream while drinking vodka tonics for two days and not get fat that I started running into problems.

Overall, I’m much more focused and committed to sticking with this diet through the ups and downs that I will probably experience. Again, to anyone struggling right now, hang in there, ask questions, make adjustments, and assess periodically. Don’t hesitate to send my a PM, either. As someone who found out what worked well and what caused me to completely f**k myself up, I think I’m in a position to help.

Good to Be Back on Diesel Fuel,
Zac

[quote]uv_deth wrote:
Carbing up every 8-10 days sounds like a good try for me.

I’ve been on diet for about 5 weeks going into my 4th carbup and I still haven’t seen much fat loss.

quote]

Doing 1 day carbloads every 4-5 days is a better option. That way, you’re refillig glycogen more frequently yet won’t run the risk of overflowing carbs to fat on a 2 day carbload. You’re workouts will be much better as well.

[quote]zed962 wrote:…

Good to Be Back on Diesel Fuel,
Zac
[/quote]

Welcome back. If nothing else comes of my experience with this (though I’m sure much more will) I have been permenantly cured of the mistaken notion that fat makes you fat. I have NEVER eaten so much fat in my life, even when I was a sedentary slug and I’m actually getting leaner, albeit slowly. It’s not out of the question that I may at some point make some significant modifications, but my entire paradigm of the role of macronutrients is forever changed. Manfood truly rocks!!!

[quote]allNatural wrote:

Doing 1 day carbloads every 4-5 days is a better option. That way, you’re refillig glycogen more frequently yet won’t run the risk of overflowing carbs to fat on a 2 day carbload. You’re workouts will be much better as well.
[/quote]

I’m not committed to the idea at this point yet, but this very thing has been flitting about my brain on and off. I’m not so much worried about fat, but I’m wondering if control of my typeII diabetes might be better served in the long run with this approach. I’ll see how things progress and determine from there. I was toying with the idea of Wed. and Sat. or something like that. Still on the drawing board though.

–Tiribulus->

To those who are going with the reccommended caloric intake with regards to the book and are trying to cut…

If you are not seeing results it could be due to the fact that you are not adapted to the diet yet I suppose. The most likely reason for any increased fat gain, however, is obviously that your caloric intake is too high. Those ways to calculate daily caloric intake are just places to start. If you are not loosing body fat you need to decrease cals.

Additionally while this diet will likely satiate anyone better than any other cutting diet it is not going to be easy for everyone. I know some might disagree with me but just because your stomach is growling that doesn’t mean that you need to increase your cals necessarily. If you are loosing weight at the right pace (1-2lbs a week) then your cals are in check. Go by this…not if your hungry or have cravings. Thats the cold hard truth with any diet. Some people digest food faster than others and some have larger stomachs. That determines how hungry one feels…not so much if they are getting the right amount of calories from a cutting standpoint.

And as far as alcohol goes. Use it at your own risk. If you are not satisfied with your results and you drink regularly. Then obviously that is the first thing you should regulate. Cheers all!

Any vets here ever hear of someone having the induction crash after their first carb up? My wife started this diet 2 weeks ago and never really experienced the “crash” when the shift kicks in. This past weekend was her first carb load which went fine though she panicked a bit when she got a little bloated. Just now she called me describing what sounds like the crash. Achy, muddle headed, heavy weighted down feeling, drowsy etc. I’ve never heard of anybody crashihng after AFTER their first carb load.

–Tiribulus->

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Any vets here ever hear of someone having the induction crash after their first carb up? My wife started this diet 2 weeks ago and never really experienced the “crash” when the shift kicks in. This past weekend was her first carb load which went fine though she panicked a bit when she got a little bloated. Just now she called me describing what sounds like the crash. Achy, muddle headed, heavy weighted down feeling, drowsy etc. I’ve never heard of anybody crashihng after AFTER their first carb load.

I have been on the diet now for about six months and I crash sometimes…but i don’t think i am doing the diet correctly since I am gaining fat…

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

I can’t help but think that I’m not doing this diet correctly. It’s day 7(one week) and I’ve had no crash or lethargy. It’s not even that hard for me. Then again, I did start lowering my carbs about a week or two prior to “officially” starting it, from about 200-300 carbs, down below 100g, to below 50. I noticed during that time that I felt lethargic and had a really bad headache for 3-4 days. Was this the crash? Was I used to low-carb by last monday when I began the AD that I avoided the dreaded crash?

I haven’t cheated at all so far. Tons of meats, cheese, eggs, oils, fish. I even avoided veggies, because I don’t want to bother measuring out my leafy greens for carbs and heard that they’re “free” after the induction phase(when I plan to eat them in abundance). I’ve been using psyllium for my fiber, which has 1 net carb. Is there a possibility that all the hidden carbs in cheese and eggs could have put me over the 30g mark, or am I just worrying too much about screwing this up?

[quote]abcd1234 wrote:
I can’t help but think that I’m not doing this diet correctly. It’s day 7(one week) and I’ve had no crash or lethargy. It’s not even that hard for me. Then again, I did start lowering my carbs about a week or two prior to “officially” starting it, from about 200-300 carbs, down below 100g, to below 50. I noticed during that time that I felt lethargic and had a really bad headache for 3-4 days. Was this the crash? Was I used to low-carb by last monday when I began the AD that I avoided the dreaded crash?

I haven’t cheated at all so far. Tons of meats, cheese, eggs, oils, fish. I even avoided veggies, because I don’t want to bother measuring out my leafy greens for carbs and heard that they’re “free” after the induction phase(when I plan to eat them in abundance). I’ve been using psyllium for my fiber, which has 1 net carb. Is there a possibility that all the hidden carbs in cheese and eggs could have put me over the 30g mark, or am I just worrying too much about screwing this up?
[/quote]

There are those who are better qualified to give an authoritative answer, but it looks to me like your whole question/statement is true. I would bet you were already 3/4 adapted by the time you “officially” started the AD. In any case not crashing by day seven is not unusual at all even if you still had it coming. I would just keep following the principles. You should imo start on at least some greens too (except spinach at the moment ;-] ). I would also look into a multi of some kind if you aren’t taking that already. I eat a lot of celery. It requires more calories to digest than it contains and has tons of micros. Just a thought. It also doesn’t sound like you’re getting too many carbs. Just give it time.

–Tiribulus->

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
abcd1234 wrote:
I can’t help but think that I’m not doing this diet correctly. It’s day 7(one week) and I’ve had no crash or lethargy. It’s not even that hard for me. Then again, I did start lowering my carbs about a week or two prior to “officially” starting it, from about 200-300 carbs, down below 100g, to below 50. I noticed during that time that I felt lethargic and had a really bad headache for 3-4 days. Was this the crash? Was I used to low-carb by last monday when I began the AD that I avoided the dreaded crash?

I haven’t cheated at all so far. Tons of meats, cheese, eggs, oils, fish. I even avoided veggies, because I don’t want to bother measuring out my leafy greens for carbs and heard that they’re “free” after the induction phase(when I plan to eat them in abundance). I’ve been using psyllium for my fiber, which has 1 net carb. Is there a possibility that all the hidden carbs in cheese and eggs could have put me over the 30g mark, or am I just worrying too much about screwing this up?

There are those who are better qualified to give an authoritative answer, but it looks to me like your whole question/statement is true. I would bet you were already 3/4 adapted by the time you “officially” started the AD. In any case not crashing by day seven is not unusual at all even if you still had it coming. I would just keep following the principles. You should imo start on at least some greens too (except spinach at the moment ;-] ). I would also look into a multi of some kind if you aren’t taking that already. I eat a lot of celery. It requires more calories to digest than it contains and has tons of micros. Just a thought. It also doesn’t sound like you’re getting too many carbs. Just give it time.

–Tiribulus->[/quote]

According to Fitday, I’m averaging about 20-25g for the past week.This is all from cheese, eggs, and my whey protein. I would like to start eating salads again, but the portions are what I’m worried about. Would I be able to eat an entire head of lettuce a day like I used to do? I use it to make several salads throughout the day. This also makes getting extra calories from dressings/oil much more satisfying than drinking them straight.

I hope I am doing it right. This weekend, I’ll stick mainly to clean carbs. I might cheat a little if I go out to eat for my dad’s birthday dinner Saturday, but nothing major. I’ll try to get plenty of oats, beans, whole wheat bread, sweet potatoes, and everything else I’ve missed. I’m honestly craving red meat more than anything, though. Lamb, bacon, beef… I’m loving it so far. I don’t seem to feel as tired as the day goes on, or need an afternoon nap as often. I used to sleep an extra hour and a half in the afternoon. Now, I have focused energy throughout the day. It must be the lack of all those blood sugar swings.

One question I have is regarding sweeteners. I use stevia and was wondering if this was cool with the AD. I like adding it to my chai in the morning(with heavy cream), and also my protein shakes.

"According to Fitday, I’m averaging about 20-25g for the past week.This is all from cheese, eggs, and my whey protein. I would like to start eating salads again, but the portions are what I’m worried about. Would I be able to eat an entire head of lettuce a day like I used to do? I use it to make several salads throughout the day. This also makes getting extra calories from dressings/oil much more satisfying than drinking them straight.

I hope I am doing it right. This weekend, I’ll stick mainly to clean carbs. I might cheat a little if I go out to eat for my dad’s birthday dinner Saturday, but nothing major. I’ll try to get plenty of oats, beans, whole wheat bread, sweet potatoes, and everything else I’ve missed. I’m honestly craving red meat more than anything, though. Lamb, bacon, beef… I’m loving it so far. I don’t seem to feel as tired as the day goes on, or need an afternoon nap as often. I used to sleep an extra hour and a half in the afternoon. Now, I have focused energy throughout the day. It must be the lack of all those blood sugar swings.

One question I have is regarding sweeteners. I use stevia and was wondering if this was cool with the AD. I like adding it to my chai in the morning(with heavy cream), and also my protein shakes."

I doubt you are getting too many carbs as long as your portions and food choices are not out of check. Even if you are eating foods with some carbs in them like eggs, cheese, bacon, processed meats, etc., it is hard to got over 30g. Veggies can be overdone like anything, but it is very hard. Just try and make sure your portions are reasonable and you should be fine. Just look up the nutrition facts and see what a portion looks like and then use that from then on. I use bagged lettuce so i don’t know what a head of lettuce would be.

The artificial sweetners can be fine if you use them in the right amounts too. A lot of them have dextrose and maltodextrin fillers that do have carbohydrates in them (Splenda, sweet n low, equal, etc.) While the small portions allow labels to say calorie free they do contain carbs that add up when used in excess.

There are sweetners available that don’t have such fillers though. Liquid versions exist of many sweetners (such as stevia). just check the labels and make sure there isn’t maltodextrin or dextrose in them (or just make sure you don’t use too much of them).