My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
3022

[quote]Photo Guy wrote:
Cassandra Forsyth did a great spiel on this in a FitCast episode not too long ago and really explained the mechanics behind it. Might want to check it out.

I found that energy levels stayed elevated for the first week and then dropped right off the chart when I crashed. A few days after the crash things started returning to normal. [/quote]

That was very informative indeed, Thanks. I have been kinda up and down the 14 or 14 hours. Felt great this morning, but I felt almost hungover last night sfter a moderately sub-standard workout. Didn’t push it. Thought it might be better to let myself adapt for I go at usual intensity.

–Tiribulus->

3023

This has probabaly been asked already as i’m still reading through this thread and the book, but I want to ask about supplements.

I figure the food itself is enough (if we’re eating properly, of course).

Creatine: Due to the high meat content, we don’t need creatine and taking it probably wouldn’t help at all. Correct?

I’m figuring on my carb up days I’ll use a high carb protein powder for a meal or two (with fruit like bananas) to make up for the caloric difference.

Thanks

3024

take one about an hour before too. Whey alone will take about 60-80 minutes to get into the system. This way you’ll tell the body to NOT breakdown muscle to aquire AA’s as well as increase protein synthesis. This is an easy way to do your peri-workout nutrition.

1 hour before (whey alone .48g/kg)
just after (whey alone .48g/kg)

Feel free to add 10+g of BCAA to each as well. Great to prevent soreness and spare glycogen.

Best,
DH

[quote]gnew70 wrote:
Thanks for the advice, I think I will just do the protein shake after my workouts.[/quote]

3025

taking 5g of creatine with post workout whey has been shown to enhance muscle protein synthesis superior to just whey alone. I’d add it then. You could also use 3-5g daily, but post-workout is perfect.

Best,
DH

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
This has probabaly been asked already as i’m still reading through this thread and the book, but I want to ask about supplements.

I figure the food itself is enough (if we’re eating properly, of course).

Creatine: Due to the high meat content, we don’t need creatine and taking it probably wouldn’t help at all. Correct?

I’m figuring on my carb up days I’ll use a high carb protein powder for a meal or two (with fruit like bananas) to make up for the caloric difference.

Thanks

[/quote]

3026

ketones become replaced by FFA’s and triglycerides as energy substrates. The base energy source is ATP. You can get it from CHO or you can get if from FFA’s. You’ll see fewer and fewer ketones as you adapt further. I canont stress enough, the strong ketogenic response is an intermediate phase. Many folks, including some who should know better, stop here and make all sorts of specualtions and conclusions during this initial phase. Mauro needs a megaphone to announce, YOU MUST NOT ASCERTAIN EFFECT UNTIL ADAPTATION IS COMPLETE!

Doc addresses many of these questions on his Metabolic Diet site once you’ve bought the book and have a login. Suffice it to say, don’t get wrapped up in inconsequential minutia. Grasp the mechanics of the diet, understand it’s not a low card diet but rather a timed CHO diet and forget what the arm chair experts tell you.

With people like DiPasquale, Poliquin, Forsythe, Alessi, Gironda, Faigin, and countless others, consider yourself in good company.

best,
DH

[quote]Photo Guy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Day 5 here. No drastic changes to report in any area since I started actually. I do sweat a bit more it seems. I did also grab a boxxa Ketostix from CVS and they show traces of ketones so I guess at this point that’s good. No energy issues. Not even during morning jogging(after some EFA’s and green tea). Today will be Abs, back and bi’s, first workout since day one so I’ll see how that goes.

On the topic of ketones. Are we supposed to move through ketosis eventually? Also does the whole idea of ketosis apply only to exogenous, dietary fats or is the utilization of adipose fats accomplished through ketosis as well? If both of the above are true, and they may not be, how do you ever move out of ketosis? Or is ketosis defined as only when there are sufficient levels to be detected in urine and utilizing ketones for energy goes on in a balanced state without actual ketosis.

I’ve been through the book and can’t seem to find answers this specific, but there are some implications.
Thanks,

–Tiribulus->

I’m sure that some of our veterans would be better qualified to comment on the mechanics of ketosis and the AD but I will say that ketones in urine will decline the longer you’re on the AD as your body adapts to using them as fuel. Right now your system isn’t optimized for using ketones and they’re being expelled. As you become adapted your body will become accustom to using them and fewer will show up in your urine.

Cassandra Forsyth did a great spiel on this in a FitCast episode not too long ago and really explained the mechanics behind it. Might want to check it out.

I found that energy levels stayed elevated for the first week and then dropped right off the chart when I crashed. A few days after the crash things started returning to normal. [/quote]

3027

keep your water intake up. Say at least 1/2 gallon per day. This could be more and much more if you are in the heat or lose much by way of sweat/respiration from physical exertion.

Also, play around with your foods. Sometimes bacon and other salty foods will cause retention…and sometimes for some folks they cause a water loss. It’s an individual thing. You’ll have to learn yourself a bit. Part of the fun of it.

DH

[quote]maddcoolbrotha wrote:
This is my 10th day on the AD. I’ve notice that during the day I seem to retain water around my mid-section. When I wake in the morning, my mid-section appears smaller (I’m up 2 or 3 times a night pissing away). What can I do to avoid water retention during the day? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

3028

And How…

Try some digestive enzymes, beano, or lactase tabs. Milk tears me up (and everyone else around). Also certain veggies such as cauliflower are really offensive when mixed with your CHO load.

DH

[quote]Deinabolic wrote:
The carb ups will make you fart mushroom clouds. Perfectly normal.[/quote]

3029

Don’t do friday at midnight. You’ve still got plenty of fat in your system and then you’ll load up the CHO, blast your insulin and store fat. Also, you’ll screw up your sleep and natural nocturnal GH cycle. Wait till the morning and you’ll be following the diet properly.

DH

[quote]wenzi wrote:
It’s been six weeks for me on the AD, I think - maybe 5 - and it has gotten much easier to function every week. Like the previous few posters, I was concerned with the startling weight gain over the weekend, with about 9 pounds being average after a 36 hour feed.

I actually was beginning just after midnight on Friday, scarfing down some popcorn and stuff, but have slowly got it under some kind of control. I have decided to rein it in some more, and plan things out a bit better with more steel cut oats and other grains.

Last week the first insulin rush in the morning just fucked me up good and I sat stewing in my own anger, my temper set on boil and fight. Eesh. Not good.

To respond to an earlier post, everyone’s body will respond differently to the carb up, and lose the fluids at your own rate. Pasquale recommends determining your own best day so that if you ever enter a contest or want a special day to hit the beach you can plan out your carb up accordingly. I think I look the best on Thursday, but that may change without the frenzy that my weekends have been.
It’s a great diet. [/quote]

3030

Speaking of muscle soreness. This is day 6 for me and while I have brought intensity down a notch or 2 until I get adapted, I did work abs, back and bi’s hard enough yesterday to where I KNOW I would usually have some soreness. I have almost none. It’s the wierdest thing. Especially the abs should have noticable soreness from past experience, but only the very slightest hint if I stretch and really look for it.

–Tiribulus->

3031

Add some HOT-ROX.
Use BCAA powder or tabs in between meals and cut your meals back a bit.

Say 4 meals:
35g fat
45g pro

8am meal one
10am BCAA
12pm meal two
2pm BCAA
4pm meal three
6pm BCAA
8pm meal four (casein or milk protein isloate)

Check your morning basal temp as I suggeted way…way…way back in the thread. Get a handle on what you are BEFORE you do the above. Then while you are doing the above check your temp each morning. If it drops by about .4 degrees F or more then boost your calories for your first two meals that day and then re-evaluate the next morning.

Always measure temp in bed before moving around at same time/conditions.

See previous post

DH

[quote]Plisskin wrote:
Update Post:
It’s been about five weeks now that I’ve been on the AD. And everything seems to going well. I’m a little disappointed that the pants haven’t become as loose as I’d like, but they have gotten a bit better. Hell, they’re tightening up in the thighs from leg growth! And this week is probably my best week yet as I managed not to over do it on the refeed and gain so much back. Almost every week i’ve seen at least a pound decrease in bodyweight. This week might be two or three because I added in some “high octane” cardio and some extra walking most nights. Of course, my goal is to lean down.

The only issues i’ve encountered are some early to mid-week lulls and sleepiness right after I get home from work, but they quickly pass. I’m kind of wondering if its the diet or if its the 105 temps we’re getting every day here in Texas. Which make my car an oven that cooks my brain on the way home from work.[/quote]

3032

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
ketones become replaced by FFA’s and triglycerides as energy substrates. The base energy source is ATP. You can get it from CHO or you can get if from FFA’s. You’ll see fewer and fewer ketones as you adapt further. I canont stress enough, the strong ketogenic response is an intermediate phase. Many folks, including some who should know better, stop here and make all sorts of specualtions and conclusions during this initial phase. Mauro needs a megaphone to announce, YOU MUST NOT ASCERTAIN EFFECT UNTIL ADAPTATION IS COMPLETE!

Doc addresses many of these questions on his Metabolic Diet site once you’ve bought the book and have a login. Suffice it to say, don’t get wrapped up in inconsequential minutia. Grasp the mechanics of the diet, understand it’s not a low card diet but rather a timed CHO diet and forget what the arm chair experts tell you.

With people like DiPasquale, Poliquin, Forsythe, Alessi, Gironda, Faigin, and countless others, consider yourself in good company.

best,
DH

[/quote]
I do appreciate that. Having read this whole thread (took several hours a day for 4 days) I see that you’re the guy with probably the most direct experience and firsthand AD knowledge around here. I understand about getting tangled in minutia, but it’s my nature. I can’t seem to avoid having these questions flitting about my brain as I read about topics that I would find interesting even if I weren’t into training.

I really enjoy being my own guinea pig, so to speak. I just wish I’d never gotten away from training years ago. I probably should concentrate more on the “mechanics” for now.

–Tiribulus->

3033

I would just like to provide maybe the 21-26 year olds some advice on the diet and training approaches…#1-a good majority of these diets are written by guys who can get ripped abs by squeezing out a shit.

#2-at a young age you may not have the maturity to stick to a diet like this all day, if you slack and mix this kind of diet w/carbs,sure your bench may go up…but you are going to end up looking like the pillsbury dough boy especially if you are any type of a endo/meso body type…trust me…been there done that…just remember when the ladies see your 40" waist hanging out on the beach, they dont care what you bench…

3034

[quote]david.civil wrote:
if you slack and mix this kind of diet w/carbs,sure your bench may go up…but you are going to end up looking like the pillsbury dough boy [/quote]

You are waaaay late (like a year) for something like this in this thread. Also You can’t slack and mix this kind of diet with carbs because carbs are an integral part of it. You may be a great guy and have 26in. arms, but it is obvious you haven’t any idea how this type of diet works. I am brand new to it and know more than what you’re saying.

–Tiribulus->

3035

I’m doing a one-meal carbup,getting around 100-200 g carbs on Wednesday and Sunday.

What’s the ideal time to have the carbs?I’ve had them at night as my last meal.

Is there a better time for having them if the goal is to drop bodyfat?

3036

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
I’m doing a one-meal carbup,getting around 100-200 g carbs on Wednesday and Sunday.

What’s the ideal time to have the carbs?I’ve had them at night as my last meal.

Is there a better time for having them if the goal is to drop bodyfat?[/quote]

Right after you workout. Maybe like a half an hour after. On my carbup 2 days ago I ran 3.5 miles in the morning and then pretty much immediately had 2 bowls of cereal.

Usually I will have a huge drop in energy after I run but because of the cereal it felt like I had even more energy than before I ran. I had enough energy to do a full leg, tri, and ab workout later in the day. What works best for me is right after I workout or run. I would give it a try.

3037

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
I’m doing a one-meal carbup,getting around 100-200 g carbs on Wednesday and Sunday.

What’s the ideal time to have the carbs?I’ve had them at night as my last meal.

Is there a better time for having them if the goal is to drop bodyfat?[/quote]

Wolverin,

I would recommend having your carbs a couple hours before bed, ideally post-workout for maximum insulin sensitivity. This will help alleviate any kind of foggyness that is associated with CHO ups. Also, make sure you leave a little time before actually going to bed so you can get to sleep - I find an elevated heart rate from the insulin spike makes it tough to fall asleep right after a big CHO meal.

Don’t worry about the whole “no carbs before bed” nutrient timing thing as you’re insulin sensitivity will be vastly improved as a result of following a very-low CHO approach. If you want to play it safe, keep the CHOs fairly low on the II/GI and supplement with R-ALA and Vanadal Sulfate to help with glucose disposal.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Sasha

3038

SashaG,that’s what I’m currently doing.Seems to work.I was wondering if there would still be alot of fat running through my system that would get stored when I hit the carbs.

My concern with the other approach suggested is that it will elevate insulin levels for 3-4 hours after the meal,increasing fat storage from the fat/protein meals.

I am probably too anal here,but I’m getting close to one of my goals and every little bit helps!

3039

No. Last meal is best by far. Not before bed. Space them apart a few hours to sleep properly

DH

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
I’m doing a one-meal carbup,getting around 100-200 g carbs on Wednesday and Sunday.

What’s the ideal time to have the carbs?I’ve had them at night as my last meal.

Is there a better time for having them if the goal is to drop bodyfat?[/quote]

3040

[quote]Wolverin wrote:
SashaG,that’s what I’m currently doing.Seems to work.I was wondering if there would still be alot of fat running through my system that would get stored when I hit the carbs.

My concern with the other approach suggested is that it will elevate insulin levels for 3-4 hours after the meal,increasing fat storage from the fat/protein meals.

I am probably too anal here,but I’m getting close to one of my goals and every little bit helps![/quote]

Wolverin,

As you heard it from the guru himself, the last meal is best. As it seems that you are trying to get lean I imagine you are in a caloric deficit so fat storage isn’t a likely option. Also, with the CHO up, you’re resetting leptin levels which will further enhance fat loss.

If you need to trouble shoot your last few pounds, lets take a look at your training program and caloric intake to see what we can do to help you reach your goal.

Cheers,

Sasha

3041

I know I remember seeing this covered earlier in this thread, I think Disc Hoss was addressing it at the time, but since it has gotten rather unwieldy as far as browsability is concerned, forgive me for asking again. Do we take the total carb content of a food and subtract the fiber from our daily total? In other words if something lists 10 grams carbs and 4 grams of fiber do we then count 6 grams of carbs against the daily total? Like I say I remember in my marathon read seeing this exact question being asked, but I can’t find it now and can’t recall the answer for sure though it think it was as stated above.
Thanks folks,

–Tiribulus->