When somebody says 5rm they are talking about a weight that you can execute with proper form.
I understand the intention, but the execution rarely matches lol. It’s more likely someone keeps consistent form when they add 200 lbs to a calf exercise in the 10-20 range than the 3-6 range. Calves are an exercise people bounce around and use the most terrible form to begin with so I don’t see a reason to encourage the ego even further. [/quote]
I agree with you on this one scott. For those of you that say beaching it nonstop hurts them, try hiking up a steep mountain trail, and then back down, continuously with a loaded hiking pack. Make sure each step is taken with the toes or as close to them as possible going up. If that doesn’t hit them, go on a snowshoeing trip for the weekend with thigh deep powder; can you say winter is hell?
Coming back down, watch the loose rocks, moss, downed trees and whatnot…they make for rather uncomfortable injuries. I live in western maine, the town I live in and the surrounding towns have nothing but mountains all around so I’m partially gifted with my current place of living as far as calf training goes.
[quote]David1991 wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
Make sure you are using a full ROM at the bottom your calfs should be fully stretched out; at the top you should be holding the contraction for at least a couple of seconds. I see a lot of people that aren’t doing this becuase they want to pretend they can calf raise 300+ pounds.
I do one set of seated calf raises once a week to 100% failure in the low rep range and my calfs are growing faster than anything else (done with a 3-1-2-1 tempo; extremely painful).
one low rep set a week? i doubt most would get similar results.[/quote]
Why do you doubt most would get similar results. I am bring the muscle to total failure which causes damage and that damage needs to be repaired.
When somebody says 5rm they are talking about a weight that you can execute with proper form.
I understand the intention, but the execution rarely matches lol. It’s more likely someone keeps consistent form when they add 200 lbs to a calf exercise in the 10-20 range than the 3-6 range. Calves are an exercise people bounce around and use the most terrible form to begin with so I don’t see a reason to encourage the ego even further. [/quote]
While that is true somebody who isn’t using a full ROM and isn’t holding the contraction isn’t going to get any good results anyways.
[quote]lil_diesel90 wrote:
Scott M wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
When somebody says 5rm they are talking about a weight that you can execute with proper form.
I understand the intention, but the execution rarely matches lol. It’s more likely someone keeps consistent form when they add 200 lbs to a calf exercise in the 10-20 range than the 3-6 range. Calves are an exercise people bounce around and use the most terrible form to begin with so I don’t see a reason to encourage the ego even further.
I agree with you on this one scott. For those of you that say beaching it nonstop hurts them, try hiking up a steep mountain trail, and then back down, continuously with a loaded hiking pack. Make sure each step is taken with the toes or as close to them as possible going up. If that doesn’t hit them, go on a snowshoeing trip for the weekend with thigh deep powder; can you say winter is hell?
Coming back down, watch the loose rocks, moss, downed trees and whatnot…they make for rather uncomfortable injuries. I live in western maine, the town I live in and the surrounding towns have nothing but mountains all around so I’m partially gifted with my current place of living as far as calf training goes.[/quote]
Yes… you could spend an hour or 2 working calfs. Or you could do it in 1 - 20 minutes (depending on your style of training).
The gastrocnemius is a predominantly fast-twitch muscle in most people, therefore I like the idea of low rep and very heavy weight training for multiple sets, maybe 8x3, 10x3 or 5x5. For the soleus (lower calf muscle) I’ve heard that despite being predominantly slow twitch, coaches like Waterbury and Poliquin prescribe low, heavy reps like found in the seated calf raise prescription of the Luke Sauder calf routine. Poliquin knows his shit so I’d heed his advice. You could also try single leg variations to allow you to get a stronger contraction.
About calf tightness, I’ve also heard that tight fascia can limit calf growth as someone pointed out earlier. Roll a tennis ball, lacrosse ball or a golf ball (if you’re very brave) on your calves as shown in the Soft Tissue work for Bad Asses article (or something like that). Just search for it under articles.
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
David1991 wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
Make sure you are using a full ROM at the bottom your calfs should be fully stretched out; at the top you should be holding the contraction for at least a couple of seconds. I see a lot of people that aren’t doing this becuase they want to pretend they can calf raise 300+ pounds.
I do one set of seated calf raises once a week to 100% failure in the low rep range and my calfs are growing faster than anything else (done with a 3-1-2-1 tempo; extremely painful).
one low rep set a week? i doubt most would get similar results.
Why do you doubt most would get similar results. I am bring the muscle to total failure which causes damage and that damage needs to be repaired.[/quote]
because 1 set is nothing. going to failure on just one set isnt going to do that much for a muscle. maybe if it was an extended set past failure but even then the calves generally need more. (it seems to be working for you apparently so thats whats important for you at least, but from my understanding most without good genetics for it will need significantly more)
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger. The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt. You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals.
This can get frustrating when talking to people because they fail to look at common factors among successful people. Find a guy in the gym who has made significant progress in terms of muscularity, let’s say hes Average Joe 25 years old 5’10 240 12-15% bodyfat and graduated high school at 175 similar bodyfat. He’s put on muscle over the years and looks the part of a serious trainer, wasn’t particualrly genetically gifted and doesn’t take AAS.
If 175 lb Average Joe had never increased his weights past the 115-155 lb benches 135-185 lb squats and deads(and other subsequent strength starting points) does anyone think he could have tricked his body into putting some 60 lbs of muscle on by doing something different? Rest periods can only be shortened so much, sets can be increased infinitely if you feel like cruising at 10% effort and 4 hour workouts but that’s non sensical after a certain point, I don’t see people getting jacked off 100+ rep sets so it’s fairly obvious somewhere between 6-20 is going to work best most of the time… Those all reach a point on dimishing returns.
If weight lifted in good safe form for certain rep ranges is the key to progress than what is the issue with trimming the fat off a program and focusing soley on the near limitless progression factor?
We are not all that special little snowflake who needs a super tailored program for our needs. People that want the biggest calves they can get should be focused on finding the key exercise, the key rep range, and getting freaky strong on that exercise and that’s it. 1 set, 20 sets, 4 exercises or 1, it DOESN’T MATTER.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger. The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt. You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals. [/quote]
It’s OK, he just doesn’t know the ‘training secret’ like the rest of us T-Nation members. Post more, the more posts you get in your profile the closer to this secret you will get.
Also, all level 5 members know the secret - level 3 members know half of the secret. If you are level 0 T-Nation gives you access to the basic articles, but you are missing out on the high security stuff.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger. The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt. You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals. [/quote]
Exactly; couldn’t have said it better myself! Every week I am almost always able to do 1 more rep on each exercise. That is improvement and that is what I like.
[quote]forevernade wrote:
Scott M wrote:
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger. The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt. You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals.
It’s OK, he just doesn’t know the ‘training secret’ like the rest of us T-Nation members. Post more, the more posts you get in your profile the closer to this secret you will get.
Also, all level 5 members know the secret - level 3 members know half of the secret. If you are level 0 T-Nation gives you access to the basic articles, but you are missing out on the high security stuff.
…
…Buy more products.[/quote]
I don’t knwo what to think of what you posted. Was this sarcasm?
[quote]David1991 wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
David1991 wrote:
DanErickson wrote:
Make sure you are using a full ROM at the bottom your calfs should be fully stretched out; at the top you should be holding the contraction for at least a couple of seconds. I see a lot of people that aren’t doing this becuase they want to pretend they can calf raise 300+ pounds.
I do one set of seated calf raises once a week to 100% failure in the low rep range and my calfs are growing faster than anything else (done with a 3-1-2-1 tempo; extremely painful).
one low rep set a week? i doubt most would get similar results.
Why do you doubt most would get similar results. I am bring the muscle to total failure which causes damage and that damage needs to be repaired.
because 1 set is nothing. going to failure on just one set isnt going to do that much for a muscle. maybe if it was an extended set past failure but even then the calves generally need more. (it seems to be working for you apparently so thats whats important for you at least, but from my understanding most without good genetics for it will need significantly more)
[/quote]
David, you need to realize that if you bring a muscle to total failure doing more sets afterwards is only eating into your ability to recover. I never knew this when I started and it is why I wasted SO MUCH TIME. It makes me so mad that I took advice of doing 4 sets of this… 4 sets of that… trying my hardest on all sets and yet not really getting anywhere. So annoying. You also need to realize that when I say to failure I am talking 100% physical failure. Most people stop at mental failure. I stop when the muscle isn’t even able to contract any longer.
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
forevernade wrote:
Scott M wrote:
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger. The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt. You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals.
It’s OK, he just doesn’t know the ‘training secret’ like the rest of us T-Nation members. Post more, the more posts you get in your profile the closer to this secret you will get.
Also, all level 5 members know the secret - level 3 members know half of the secret. If you are level 0 T-Nation gives you access to the basic articles, but you are missing out on the high security stuff.
…
…Buy more products.
I don’t knwo what to think of what you posted. Was this sarcasm?[/quote]
You would know the answer to that question if your calves were bigger.
I’m disappointed in this thread. Where is the O.P and why is he not responding to all the help people are giving him? What a waste of time. What a poo head.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
This can get frustrating when talking to people because they fail to look at common factors among successful people. Find a guy in the gym who has made significant progress in terms of muscularity, let’s say hes Average Joe 25 years old 5’10 240 12-15% bodyfat and graduated high school at 175 similar bodyfat. He’s put on muscle over the years and looks the part of a serious trainer, wasn’t particualrly genetically gifted and doesn’t take AAS.
If 175 lb Average Joe had never increased his weights past the 115-155 lb benches 135-185 lb squats and deads(and other subsequent strength starting points) does anyone think he could have tricked his body into putting some 60 lbs of muscle on by doing something different? Rest periods can only be shortened so much, sets can be increased infinitely if you feel like cruising at 10% effort and 4 hour workouts but that’s non sensical after a certain point, I don’t see people getting jacked off 100+ rep sets so it’s fairly obvious somewhere between 6-20 is going to work best most of the time… Those all reach a point on dimishing returns.
If weight lifted in good safe form for certain rep ranges is the key to progress than what is the issue with trimming the fat off a program and focusing soley on the near limitless progression factor?
We are not all that special little snowflake who needs a super tailored program for our needs. People that want the biggest calves they can get should be focused on finding the key exercise, the key rep range, and getting freaky strong on that exercise and that’s it. 1 set, 20 sets, 4 exercises or 1, it DOESN’T MATTER.
[/quote]
i see what your saying and i know progress will lead to more growth but do you really think one set once a week will actually make anyone jacked? find me one person who works out once a week with one set per body part who’s huge. that would be like a 20min. workout once a week and no ones getting big from that. i’m not saying one set sometimes cant work…but one set for calves each week to just normal concentric failure? how many people do you think are really going to get big calves from that at an optimal rate or at all?
[quote]DanErickson wrote:
David, you need to realize that if you bring a muscle to total failure doing more sets afterwards is only eating into your ability to recover. I never knew this when I started and it is why I wasted SO MUCH TIME. It makes me so mad that I took advice of doing 4 sets of this… 4 sets of that… trying my hardest on all sets and yet not really getting anywhere. So annoying. You also need to realize that when I say to failure I am talking 100% physical failure. Most people stop at mental failure. I stop when the muscle isn’t even able to contract any longer. [/quote]
im not going to say it doesnt work, i mean clearly it has for you. but to me it just seems crazy to expect much growth from just one set. even with DC you do a couple of warm ups and then work the muscle again in 4 days or so
My calves are 18", and likely my best developed body muscle.
On sunday and thursday I do legs work 10 rep, 5-6 sets(to failure), bent knee seated(250lb) and regular seated calves(400), donkey(500), toe bar + squat rack(200).
I also do 20 miles on my bike on mon/weds/fri/sat and I ride the 6 mile round trip to the gym if its not raining or 100+ outside.
I do massage my calves at night and some days heat pad them, the knotting was bad when I first started really working out and it has gone down quit a bit over the last 6 months.
I play rugby during the summer, and have practice twice a week for 2.5 hours. I also work out my calves twice a week, Day 1: 3x25
Day 2: 20x20. I’ve really begun to notice them growing for the first time in my life.
[quote]forevernade wrote:
Scott M wrote:
David didn’t we spend several threads discussing this with you? lol.
If that 1 set was progressive in nature(more weight more reps) than the muscle has 1 of 2 choices. It can either tear under the new found stress or adapt and repair itself to be stronger.
The first option doesn’t happen all that often, so we are safe to assume that if we give the muscle something it needs to adapt to, provide it with the nurtients it needs it HAS TO GROW.
There are no ifs or buts about this. If you work up to a set of 10-20 reps to failure on the leg press with 2 plates a side. And the next week add 5-10 lbs, and the next week, and the next one, and the next one etc till you completely tap out that exercise for the time being and are using 8 plates a side for the same 10-20 reps you have given your calves an extreme reason to grow and adapt.
You just simply won’t find someone who trains in safe form and with key exercises who has quadrupled their training weights and eaten for size that hasn’t grown.
Whether someone gets that done with 1 set of 1 exercise or 20 sets it doesn’t matter. They just need to progress and progress consistently long term. The quicker this gets beaten into people’s skulls the quicker they will realize what needs to be done to accomplish their goals.
It’s OK, he just doesn’t know the ‘training secret’ like the rest of us T-Nation members. Post more, the more posts you get in your profile the closer to this secret you will get.
Also, all level 5 members know the secret - level 3 members know half of the secret. If you are level 0 T-Nation gives you access to the basic articles, but you are missing out on the high security stuff.
…
…Buy more products.[/quote]
a question for you. how would you know this when you yourself are level zero? not trying to be a critic but honest question. as many in the past have said, to each their own.