My Apologies

[R112]

I have no complaints to make about the quality of training related information here on T-Nation and it has greatly improved my life (gained 25 lbs in a year or so, got a lot more strenght and I feel much more confident than I used to.).

It’s all the offtopic banter that once used to be funny and new that now has gotten old and boring (words change, meanings stay).

I don’t take many issues to the heart so I don’t feel the need to reply too often unless I have something meaningfull to contribute… it is hard to gather intelligent replies that one can actually benefit from and I really don’t have that much interest for idle banter and useless arguing over non-meaningfull matters.

Maybe my replies weren’t that great and yours certainly weren’t , but I’ll accept your apology and welcomes and hope we can move onto other issues.

[JPBear]

I don’t really want to get involved with the avatar discussion but would like to agree with Zeb that when it comes to raising kids, those who do not have any really have nothing of value to offer to those who do.

You can have your opinions, but they are just that. The actual act of childrearing will confound and challenge the smartest and most capable among us. It is natural to think it is rather easy and straightforward before you are there.

I have a baby so I think I am somewhat qualified to give advice about what has worked for me to parents with babies, but that does not make my opinion valuable to those with toddlers, young kids or teenagers.

[ZEB]

[quote]hardcore_balla wrote:

Granted it’s always the parents responsiblity to steer their kids away from this stuff. The problem however is made more difficult by the medias lack of restraint.

Again, I think balance and some simple rules are needed. I think just about everything is appropriate at the right time and place.

Just common sense…

ZEB,

“always the parents responsibility to steer their kids away from this stuff”?

I think I know the context you mean but seriously come on. If you are steering your kids away form sex or any knowledge or hint of it, what are you doing? You are alienating your kids and forcing them to learn on their own. What does that lead to? More experimentation etc. Trust me, I know from a young lad’s experiences and also from others.Sex or the knowledge of doesn’t make you a bad person. It is recognizing that knowledge and using it when it is proper (this is where the hard taught morals come in). [/quote]

I’m sorry, I don’t think I was very clear, let me try again.

It’s not the medias duty, to prompt a discussion regarding sex. It’s my duty (and my wifes) to have those talks with my children. And we are not “hiding” anything from them. We are very open and honest.

It’s all part of parenting.

[quote]WHile sex on tv isn’t usually reality ie: perfect mood, perfect timing, perfectly beautiful people,etc it is true to form. What married couple doesn’t have sex/ What teenager doesn’t think about sex and wonder? Sheesh it almost sounds like your kids are going to grow up watching the discovery channel and the cooking channel… but wait, they have animal sex on the discovery channel so just the cooking channel.

[/quote]

You can draw any sort of erroneous conclusion that you’d like. But as I said it’s not the medias job to fill my kids in about sex. And if you check your history it’s really only been over the past 30 years or so that this has been going on.

Gee, I wonder how all of those tens of millions of children grew up prior to that period without the current over exposure of sex in the media?

Um…think.

[Professor_X]

[quote]JPBear wrote:
I don’t really want to get involved with the avatar discussion but would like to agree with Zeb that when it comes to raising kids, those who do not have any really have nothing of value to offer to those who do.

You can have your opinions, but they are just that. The actual act of childrearing will confound and challenge the smartest and most capable among us. It is natural to think it is rather easy and straightforward before you are there.

I have a baby so I think I am somewhat qualified to give advice about what has worked for me to parents with babies, but that does not make my opinion valuable to those with toddlers, young kids or teenagers. [/quote]

Interesting. If those without children can never speak on issues of raising kids, it leaves those new to raising kids in a very awkward position, seeing as, according to you and Zeb, one can not prepare for this situation at all.

Zeb’s analogy to a person who doesn’t lift weights trying to give advice on it is fallible. It would be more like someone who does lift weights giving advice on how to avoid an injury even though they have never had one. I understand the human body much better than average, therefore, would a doctor have to have a particular illness to be able to speak with a patient about one? According to this logic, no doctor without hepatitis should treat a patient with that disease.

We all know that raising kids is challenging. Many of us have been very close to those who were raising kids and are not as clueless as some of you seem to think. This logic as if raising kids is an issue that only those with kids can speak on is ridiculous. It implies that I know nothing about children simply because I don’t have one. How does this make sense?

Is this some attempt to act as part of an elite class because you have had children?

This topic was about a picture of a woman with no clothes, who showed no sex organs, no nipples, no vagina, and had her back turned to the camera…and one poster’s offense taken towards it. I find it hilarious that this has turned into the “parent vs, nonparent” feud.

[Tech9]

[quote]malonetd wrote:
I get what you are saying, but that’s not the point here. You are trying to insert a new argument into this post. The item originally being discussed was an avatar on T-Nation.com, formerly Testosterone.com.[/quote]

Actually, the original item was an apology from Mr. Chill about bashing Canada and the snarky tone of some of his past posts.

Three pages later and I still have yet to see anyone make any comments about the apology so I’m assuming things are all good.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Tech9 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I get what you are saying, but that’s not the point here. You are trying to insert a new argument into this post. The item originally being discussed was an avatar on T-Nation.com, formerly Testosterone.com.

Actually, the original item was an apology from Mr. Chill about bashing Canada and the snarky tone of some of his past posts.

Three pages later and I still have yet to see anyone make any comments about the apology so I’m assuming things are all good.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone found that interesting enough…thus pages of parental issues. Keep up, man!

[The3toedSloth]

[quote]Tech9 wrote:

Three pages later and I still have yet to see anyone make any comments about the apology so I’m assuming things are all good.[/quote]

[quote]MrChill wrote:

I admit that the Idealist in me has been a little too extreme. I admit that I have been vitriolic, caustic, and cold.

(Yeah, this could sound too wussy to some of you. [/quote]

[quote]The3toedSloth wrote:

Pussy. J/K <:-)

|/ 3Toes
[/quote]

You must have missed this, then.

|/ 3Toes

[hardcore_balla]

Professor X,

Hit it right on the head.

I may not have kids but I did stay at a holiday inn last night.

[FlawlessCowboy]

Interesting. I’m going to throw out a question…

Must all elementary teachers have kids before they can teach in an elementary school?

I have friends that will be teaching in elementary schools next year, and none of them have kids of their own at this time. It seems to me that they will play a part in raising those children. Would none of their opinions/thoughts be valid on this thread because they do not have children of their own?

-FC

[ZEB]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Interesting. If those without children can never speak on issues of raising kids, it leaves those new to raising kids in a very awkward position, seeing as, according to you and Zeb, one can not prepare for this situation at all.[/quote]

When I don’t have the experience in one particular area I listen, read and learn. I don’t try to act like I am an expert in the field.

That is what we are talking about. Try it sometime.

Zeb’s analogy to a person who doesn’t lift weights trying to give advice on it is fallible. It would be more like someone who does lift weights giving advice on how to avoid an injury even though they have never had one. I understand the human body much better than average, therefore, would a doctor have to have a particular illness to be able to speak with a patient about one? According to this logic, no doctor without hepatitis should treat a patient with that disease.

Very poor analogy. My anaology was one similar to the situation. You need to learn various skills in order to do it properly. If you have NEVER done it stop thinking that you are an expert on it.

We all know that raising kids is challenging.

And the media makes it more challenging by making parenting that much more difficult by acting with little or no restraint, as you will see one day.

Many of us have been very close to those who were raising kids and are not as clueless as some of you seem to think.

Actually, that very statement makes you appear even more clueless than I originally thought. If you think that being around friends (or family)children is like raising your own children…well that’s just funny stuff!

All parents on board at T-Nation will get a good belly laugh when they read it trust me.

This logic as if raising kids is an issue that only those with kids can speak on is ridiculous.

You can speak about it all you want. And a guy who never lifted weights (ever) can speak on lifting weights too. Just don’t think that those of us who have done it for years are going to be overly impressed by your naivete.

It implies that I know nothing about children simply because I don’t have one. How does this make sense?

It does not imply anything. I am stating that YOU don’t know what YOU are talking about when it comes to RAISING children.

See the difference?

That’s not JUST because you don’t have kids. I have read your posts on child rearing and they make no sense.

Is this some attempt to act as part of an elite class because you have had children?

Elite class? LOL

No, no more than you feel like you are in the elite class when you are in the Gym. Having more experience and reaching a certain level of strength through actually liftin weights simply gives you more knowledge of the subject.

This topic was about a picture of a woman with no clothes, who showed no sex organs, no nipples, no vagina, and had her back turned to the camera…and one poster’s offense taken towards it. I find it hilarious that this has turned into the “parent vs, nonparent” feud.

You find it hilarious because you don’t have any children of your own…Oh my, right back to where we started…

[ZEB]

[quote]FlawlessCowboy wrote:
Interesting. I’m going to throw out a question…

Must all elementary teachers have kids before they can teach in an elementary school? [/quote]

No but it helps. I have seen both sets of teachers with my own children and at a certain level it helps to have had your own kids.

But again, we are talking about RAISING kids in order to fully understand the pressures placed on parents by a media that is sex (and violence) obessesd.

[BigRagoo]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m sorry, I don’t think I was very clear, let me try again.

It’s not the medias duty, to prompt a discussion regarding sex. It’s my duty (and my wifes) to have those talks with my children. And we are not “hiding” anything from them. We are very open and honest.

It’s all part of parenting.

[/quote]

An that was the whole point of this before the long posts. As a parent I make sure I am on top of as much new information my son gets. I am there to explain or show things he doesn’t understand. However, this society runs off of sexually charged material. it may not be the perfect way of selling a product, but it works.

So, as citizens of a free nation we must try to filter and monitor what our kids take in AND be prepared for the surprises that we encounter. It is frustrating to try to preach something to your kids when they can see the exact opposite just next door. There will always be something that is offensive or deemed inappropriate when it comes to what children should be exposed to.

This is really becoming hard because of all the fast, at hand media children have today. The internet is the surest way to find something “new” for anyone. It is a challenge and will be one as long as people have kids.

[JPBear]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Interesting. If those without children can never speak on issues of raising kids, it leaves those new to raising kids in a very awkward position, seeing as, according to you and Zeb, one can not prepare for this situation at all.

[/quote]

Well, I sure tried my best to prepare. We read books and we had it all figured out. Guess where those books ended up one week into actual parenting? In the garbage. If the author of my favourite parenting book would have come to my house at that time I would have thrown it at her head. And she was a parent!

We all know that raising kids is challenging. Many of us have been very close to those who were raising kids and are not as clueless as some of you seem to think.

Save that statement so you can re-read it one day. You’ll eventually see why it is funny.

Is this some attempt to act as part of an elite class because you have had children?

Yes, it’s a very posh, exclusive club. Only the very elite among us are worthy to partake in baby barf, shitty diapers and 3 hours of sleep per night.

[Professor_X]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
When I don’t have the experience in one particular area I listen, read and learn. I don’t try to act like I am an expert in the field.

That is what we are talking about. Try it sometime.[/quote]

That isn’t what we are talking about. We are talking about why a picture of a naked woman with no genitalia visible and one who is in no sexual position AT ALL is offensive to anyone or “obscene” for a child to see. What makes anyone see anything more than a beautiful woman who happens to not have clothes on?

To make more of it than that speaks only of your own personal biases that you will no doubt pass on to your kids. The question is, why are parents teaching kids that nudity itself is wrong even when sex is not in the picture? Why not explain the situation to your kid and move right along?

They will adopt your own views of what is right and wrong and if a woman’s body alone is viewed as a negative, have you even considered what this has the potential to do with how they see themselves?

[quote]
Very poor analogy. My anaology was one similar to the situation. You need to learn various skills in order to do it properly. If you have NEVER done it stop thinking that you are an expert on it.[/quote]

Hell, are YOU an expert on raising kids? Your kids are perfect? They have never made a mistake, huh? Bullshit.

[quote]
And the media makes it more challenging by making parenting that much more difficult by acting with little or no restraint, as you will see one day.[/quote]

Which means it is not your job to simply shield your kid from ALL things you see as inappropriate but to teach them how to react in situations like that themselves as well. It would seem to me that an oversheltered child would be LEAST prepared to handle these situations once out on their own. Again, what makes a nude woman wrong?

[quote]
Actually, that very statement makes you appear even more clueless than I originally thought. If you think that being around friends (or family)children is like raising your own children…well that’s just funny stuff!

All parents on board at T-Nation will get a good belly laugh when they read it trust me.[/quote]

Does this supposedly make you look more informed or more intelligent? Do you know what I have been exposed to? if not, how can you judge me as ill-informed?

[etaco]

I was a kid once and I know what worked and on me. I also witnessed the rearing of quite a few kids and the results thereof.

[MrChill]

[quote]R@NE wrote:
Suppose the real problem with kids seeing that god awful avatar gasp is that too many parents teach (or wont bother teaching much at all) their kids to associate all nudity with sexual acts.[/quote]

And why do I get the feeling these same parents would classify erotic photography as porn? Tsk tsk tsk…

[AJL_1240]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
malonetd wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Oh and how many kids do you have?

Uh huh…

This is terrible logic and I thought you were at least intelligent enough to see that.

You don’t always need first hand experience in a subject matter to criticze, offer advice, and/or make responsible decisions regarding said subject matter.

Hell, if that were actually the case, nearly EVERYONE posting in the politics forum needs to quit immediately and turn off their computers. Zeb, of course, should never log into the Sex forum as well.[/quote]

Yes Professor X, the argument that having kids will completely change your mind, and you will be enlightened is complete bull shit.

I completely agree with malonetd and your posts on this thread, and most of your posts on this site. I have I child so maybe in Zeb’s eyes I have some credibility on the issue.

I also know of some people with 5 times as many kids as I have, with much lower standards and morals than I have. And I also know of some people with no children who think the same way you (Zeb) do about shielding the children that they plan to have from nudity.

Why does the amount of kids one has matter?

Oh, and Zeb, I’m a registered Republican if that helps you to judge me better. I also have some predominately ‘conservative’ views and some predominately ‘liberal’ views. Shocking, I know.

[MrChill]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tech9 wrote:
malonetd wrote:
I get what you are saying, but that’s not the point here. You are trying to insert a new argument into this post. The item originally being discussed was an avatar on T-Nation.com, formerly Testosterone.com.

Actually, the original item was an apology from Mr. Chill about bashing Canada and the snarky tone of some of his past posts.

Three pages later and I still have yet to see anyone make any comments about the apology so I’m assuming things are all good.

I don’t think anyone found that interesting enough…thus pages of parental issues. Keep up, man![/quote]

No problemo. I don’t expect post of apologies to generate much comments.

But I never would have expected that the Francesca Lodo avatar would fuel such a debate. All good. That’s what I expect from a big site like T-Nation.

[doogie]

[quote]FlawlessCowboy wrote:
Interesting. I’m going to throw out a question…

Must all elementary teachers have kids before they can teach in an elementary school?

I have friends that will be teaching in elementary schools next year, and none of them have kids of their own at this time. It seems to me that they will play a part in raising those children. Would none of their opinions/thoughts be valid on this thread because they do not have children of their own?

-FC

[/quote]

Teaching other people’s kids does not in any way compare to raising your own. Not even remotely close.

[MrChill]

I keep seeing this ‘kids being exposed to sex too soon’ comment. I don’t recall people posting about being de-sensitized by seeing it over and over. But of course that opens the door to the ‘we need more, better, hotter’ problem. Not to mention Feminists, liberties, rights, etc.

Oh what a fascinating subject!