My 9/11 Research

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
As with any good skeptic, I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.

Well, a lot of people i have talked to realise , after reviewing the evidence, that the gouvernament was complicit in 911.

I have yet to see one of them changing back his mind.
[/quote]

I say “as with any good skeptic” … not simply someone you talked to. A skeptic is not what most people think it is. We study logic, logical fallacies, science, pseudoscience, how people deceive themselves (this is a big one) and many other things including conspiracy theories. We require good evidence for something before we will believe it. Not simply “well, I dont know about that, im skeptical.” Check out websites like www.skeptic.com and www.theskepticsguide.org, and www.theness.com for more info. 2 of those sites have good articles on these subject matters.

Also, as I said before, conspiracy theorists are VERY convincing and clever with their arguments. Most people do not take the next step after they hear the “truth.”

Take Rosie of Donnel for instance, there are several clips of her saying “I dont know if the government did it, but this is the first time a fire melted steel” and “Do you know how long it took the buildings to fall, 9 seconds. Thats the same as free fall speed…its physically impossible” Again, she stops the research when she hears the “truth” and doesnt look for evidence that they did in fact NOT fall at free fall speed. Then all the people watching the view go “Wow, this is interesting” and dont do anymore research, they dont go online, they dont have any knowledge or skepticism about these things. So now that rosie has said it…it has to be true right?

This is the way it works almost all the time. I myself have even heard someone say “Well, this is also what Charlie Sheen belives” … WHO CARES!? Charlie Sheen is an actor, and unfortunately that counts for something here in America. Thats what happens… You, the guy from Lose Change, Rosie, Charlie… They make these comments without doing the proper research and then the people they said it to just believe them.

Seriously, really read over that website I sent you (http://www.debunking911.com/), it will give you the arguments from the other side which I feel are convincing.

The number one rule of this kind of stuff is to be OBJECTIVE. You have to follow the evidence no matter what, which is what I would do if it did indeed point straight to Bush. Considering his confessions and further tapes explaining that he was planning this for a long time after we blew up some of his buildings, Osama seems to be the number one suspect.

You have the read all information with an open mind. Its so easy to be convinced of something if you go in thinking that its true.

102

Actually, i was in disbelief about the gouvernament implication in 911 for most of the time.

During this period i was relying on the medias to feed me informations.

Then i stumbled on additionnal info on the net, and decided to digg further as to prove to myself this material couldn’t possibly be true.

To much of my surprise, i concluded it was true indeed, and that the medias were actually feeding disinfo.

I’m still waiting for your final position on William Rodriguez testimony, relayed by dozens of co workers around him at the time of the attacks, and proved by personal injuries and hospital records, all censured by the independent 911 commission and corporate media.

A person as scientifically qualified as you appear shouldn’t have any problems reaching a definitive opinion.

103

William Rodriguez
http://www.911myths.com/html/william_rodriguez.html

104

Interesting Sloth, havent read that before. I did download and listen to the CNN report which does not have him saying that he felt an explosion from below. I thought it was interesting in the article that they brought up that sound travels faster through solid objects than it does through air, which could account for the 2 explosions that he heard.

Jeff, your 2 main points in this thread seem to be the free fall speed of the towers(false) and the William Rodriguez testimony(which now appears to change over time from rumbling to an explosion from below). Is there any doubt in your mind that these are the smoking gun still?

As for Rodriguez, like I said eariler, no one is a 100% credible witness. When you factor in something like a 9/11 type catastrophe with chaos levels never before or again seen, its very easy to see where confusion can creep into his story.

105

Another point about bombs in the basement. It is an indisputable fact that global collapse started in the impact zone, and not at the bottom of the building.

106

An exterior panel is measured for the approximate 9 second collapse speed. It takes considerably longer for the core to collapse.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1615521411849861778

Tough to see in this one, but you’ll see it. You’ll see collapse and debris cloud. Then you’ll notice a jagged part still standing above the building in front of the view. It then collapses.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6005900343263850613

107

A pretty good video going over the collapse. Really good simulation backed up by real images. Not very long, so please take a look.

108

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:

Ultimately, this all boils down to education, rationality and belief. If someone doesn’t know or accept that a small part of scientists will always disagree, and/or he lacks something in his life or is young and seeks out challenges or just wants to believe something out of convinience- boom; Irrationality alert.

Irrationality ??

Let me get this straight:

We have a 47 storey steel reinforced building (WTC 7) that didn’t suffer major fires or damage, didn’t have an airplane crashing into it, crumbling into it’s own footprints at free fall speed.

First time ever in history, twin towers nonwhitstanding.

No scientific explanation has been found, 6 years after the facts.

The owner, Larry Sylverstein, said on the record the building was pulled. The BBC announced it’s fall 25 minutes too early.

Demolition experts are on the record saying this building was pulled.

The independent 911 comission refuses to talk about it.

In these condidtions, who’s the irrationnal one ?

You’re being rational for thinking everything has been explained, and irrational if you dare question the status quo ?

Seems to me your idea of irrationality is rather a confused one when it comes to 911.

[/quote]

All of history is about conspiracies. Anyone who thinks powerful people won’t do absolutely anything to keep or increase their power is a fool.

Governments are, in and of themselves, a conspiracy against their own citizens. The Founding Fathers tried to change all that. They failed.

109

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:

  • military witnesses/ gouvernament employees face tens of years of jail time for breaching the secrecy seal they agreed upon joining

[/quote]

im in the miltary and ill tell u what there would be no jail time and i came out and said it was all set up cnn and all other news station would never allow it. the only way to keep this theory a secret is to kill every single person who nows and i havent heard of a mass sucide in the white house yet
dont now how to unedit this section

110

founding fathers failed

I have the right to curse out the goverment in the open and still collect social security or uneployment. If you believe the goverment truely only looked out for its self and you live in the USA then your a coward, I mean no disrespect to any one but if u live in the usa and believe we comminted 9/11 or were horrible goverment then your a coward and only making things worse for this world.

111

and about all these eye witness b/s when u see people jumping out of buildings and fires and a giant building falling down you prolly are just freaking out and during this time your going to think u heard and seen a lot of things that prolly didnt happen.

I have a question are all miltary people evil I mean serving a country that attacks its self and will do anything in its power to get what ever it wants. or are they just all ignorant people

112

[quote]hazarddude334 wrote:
founding fathers failed

I have the right to curse out the goverment in the open and still collect social security or uneployment. If you believe the goverment truely only looked out for its self and you live in the USA then your a coward, I mean no disrespect to any one but if u live in the usa and believe we comminted 9/11 or were horrible goverment then your a coward and only making things worse for this world.[/quote]

uh-oh, the patriots’ nest has been stirred!

We committed? Who is we?

113

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Jeff, your 2 main points in this thread seem to be the free fall speed of the towers(false) and the William Rodriguez testimony(which now appears to change over time from rumbling to an explosion from below). Is there any doubt in your mind that these are the smoking gun still?
[/quote]

Yeah right.

to rumble - make a loud noise; “rumbling thunder”

How confusing indeed.

114

[quote]hazarddude334 wrote:
im in the miltary and ill tell u what there would be no jail time and i came out and said it was all set up cnn and all other news station would never allow it. the only way to keep this theory a secret is to kill every single person who nows and i havent heard of a mass sucide in the white house yet
dont now how to unedit this section [/quote]

I tell you every pentagone employee is sworn to secrecy.
Same deal with army special departments.

115

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Jeff, your 2 main points in this thread seem to be the free fall speed of the towers(false) and the William Rodriguez testimony(which now appears to change over time from rumbling to an explosion from below). Is there any doubt in your mind that these are the smoking gun still?

Yeah right.

to rumble - make a loud noise; “rumbling thunder”

How confusing indeed.

[/quote]

I’m not sure what this means… And it certainly doesnt answer the question.

You have now brought up, several times, the Rodriguez testimony, leading me to believe you think its very convincing. Knowing now that his story has changed over time doesnt do anything to possibly shake the foundation of that argument a little?

116

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
jeffdirect wrote:
Lonnie123 wrote:
Jeff, your 2 main points in this thread seem to be the free fall speed of the towers(false) and the William Rodriguez testimony(which now appears to change over time from rumbling to an explosion from below). Is there any doubt in your mind that these are the smoking gun still?

Yeah right.

to rumble - make a loud noise; “rumbling thunder”

How confusing indeed.

I’m not sure what this means… And it certainly doesnt answer the question.

You have now brought up, several times, the Rodriguez testimony, leading me to believe you think its very convincing. Knowing now that his story has changed over time doesnt do anything to possibly shake the foundation of that argument a little?[/quote]

If I may anwer for him? It’s because he’s viewed the videos I posted. He has seen that the collapse originated from top to bottom. And, that the lower floors (the core) stood seconds longer. The videos themselves show basement bombs didn’t bring down the towers.

117

[quote]hazarddude334 wrote:
founding fathers failed

I have the right to curse out the goverment in the open and still collect social security or uneployment. If you believe the goverment truely only looked out for its self and you live in the USA then your a coward, I mean no disrespect to any one but if u live in the usa and believe we comminted 9/11 or were horrible goverment then your a coward and only making things worse for this world.[/quote]

Of course they failed: they didn’t specifically outlaw fiat money though they had just seen the disasterous results from using same. They left the door open to massive regulation and taxation of the citizens, which later villains (like Woodrow Wilson) happily stepped through.

I distrust politicians and powerful people. Looking at the people in charge and those who want the job, you trust them? Why? They’re all criminals (except maybe Barack — he’s a lib but I think he’s honest. I’d vote for him over criminal McCain or Hill-Billy).

118

Obama’s wife is member of the CFR.
Obama attended AIPAC’s conferences, just like Hillary, Biden, …

You won’t find Paul at AIPAC conferences, believe me…

119

[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Obama’s wife is member of the CFR.
Obama attended AIPAC’s conferences, just like Hillary, Biden, …

You won’t find Paul at AIPAC conferences, believe me…[/quote]

You mean Ron (KKK) Paul?

120

Hey, are you Mikeyali under another username ?

Dismissing me yesterday, replying today ?

Schizophrenia is a serious disease; try modifying your diet.