Troll harder, dumbwitt.
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Note to self:
Troll harder, dumbwitt.[/quote]
Then there are the bolts holding everything together. When they snap there is a sudden release of energy. Or are you going to tell us there has never been a recording made of a bolt snapping?
So tell us jeffdirect since you know so much what should have sounded and looked like.
And while you are at it tell us how long it is supposed to take thousands of tons of steel and concrete to fall from a quarter mile up in the air.
Those floors had a limited, finite ability to hold up the building above them once part of the building gave way and the building came slamming down onto the floor below the process was unstoppable. That is exactly what we saw when those buildings came down.
Time will tell…
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Then there are the bolts holding everything together. When they snap there is a sudden release of energy. Or are you going to tell us there has never been a recording made of a bolt snapping?[/quote]
I’m saying no recording of the snapping of massive structrural steel beams ever exists.
You talked us into it: you got any evidence to back it up ?
Any recording of the snapping of massive structrural steel beams to show us, mate ?
As to sound to the trained firefighter’s ears as an explosion ?
Show us your evidence, or are you just mouth ?
Oh really, mr engineer ?
Have you made the calculations yourself ?
Or are you just relying on what the scientists on governament’s payroll are telling you ?
If that’s the case, i can show you doctor’s in the forties swearing smoking cigarettes is actually GOOD for your health.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
And while you are at it tell us how long it is supposed to take thousands of tons of steel and concrete to fall from a quarter mile up in the air. [/quote]
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my question is how many people believe that usa actually planned there own 9/11 and actually live in united states.
after i got that answer ill comment more on how i fell and think about this
Here is what a piece of steel rebar sounds like when it fails. When the bolts that held the structural steel together failed they would have sounded like this. Note how there is as sudden release of energy that sounds like an explosion.
Here is Purdue University’s excellant computer generated similation of one of the planes crashing into the world trade center, that shows what it would have looked like inside the building.
Here is shear testing on a structural beam.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
YES, lets look to Popular Mechanics for the “unbiased truth” about 9/11…
[/quote]
Well we sure as hell ain’t gonna get it from you. At this point I don’t care what you post, your insanity is dismissed.
You are the biggest nutcase here, and until I see any semblance of sanity from you then there is no use even attempting an intelligent discussion with you.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Here is what a piece of steel rebar sounds like when it fails. When the bolts that held the structural steel together failed they would have sounded like this. Note how there is as sudden release of energy that sounds like an explosion.
Here is Purdue University’s excellant computer generated similation of one of the planes crashing into the world trade center, that shows what it would have looked like inside the building.
Here is shear testing on a structural beam.
Since when massive structural steel beams have a 1.5 inch width, mate ?
Can you, or CAN YOU NOT produce the recording of the snapping of MASSIVE STRUCTURAL STEEL BEAMS you have glossed about so much in your previous post ?
You CANNOT ??
Then the statements of first hand witnesses talking about BOMBS stand on their own.
The recorded sound of a bomb going off at WTC: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5047702820460805143&q=bomb+wtc&total=981&start=110&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6
Statements of FBI officials believing explosives were set up at the base of both towers:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2270478835340619294&q=bomb+wtc&total=982&start=50&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
Statements from first hand witnesses, professional policemens, firefighters and reporters attesting to the presence of explosive devices: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8195623399340674282&q=bomb+wtc&total=982&start=40&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6
Statement of William Rodriguez, hero of 911, talking about sub basement explosions BEFORE the first plane hit, causing deaths and burns to sub basement workers ( of which Felipe David, disfigured by fire)and whose testimony was entirely censured by the 911 commission : http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-4573847800397007270&q=william+rodriguez&total=616&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
(explain that one away, mate)
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
Statements of FBI officials believing explosives were set up at the base of both towers:
[/quote]
“That is still unconfirmed, that is the theory we are going on at the moment.”
Can you not hear this?
Hours after the attacks, I was told that there were 8 planes hijacked, and the way I heard it was the planes were not related to the attacks. (I actually did not know about it until hours later.)
Exactly how much did people know right after it happened? There is something called confusion, and trying to get the whole story involves not just minutes of speculation. Even witnesses are hard pressed to know what actually happened.
A good example of this was when I was a witness to a hit and run, and the person who was hit tried to describe a car that did not exist. (Never made.)
Research has shown that witnesses are very unreliable. (I have seen a dozen documentaries demonstrating this.)
Also most people don’t even know what anything actually sounds like. Ever hear a gun shot? Many people think they are hearing fireworks, because they have only heard gunshots in movies.
And that is why these things are so compelling, but still wrong. They sound good to people who do not know better. (No, really. If I send this guy $10,000 he will spent it to be able to get his money out of this country, and will give me half a million. What a deal.)
No you do not need to blindly accept the government account of events, but you don’t need to blindly assume they are lying either, nor to blindly accept any crazy theory that comes up so long as it goes against the government.
A government willing to do something like this would have had no problem planting tons of WMD’s all over Iraq.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
jeffdirect wrote:
Statements of FBI officials believing explosives were set up at the base of both towers:
“That is still unconfirmed, that is the theory we are going on at the moment.”
Can you not hear this?
Hours after the attacks, I was told that there were 8 planes hijacked, and the way I heard it was the planes were not related to the attacks.
blah blah blah… [/quote]
You are the biggest nutcase here, and until I see any semblance of sanity from you then there is no use even attempting an intelligent discussion with you…
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
You are the biggest nutcase here, and until I see any semblance of sanity from you then there is no use even attempting an intelligent discussion with you…[/quote]
Yeah, I am beginning to believe this about you too. Obviously you couldn’t answer me, so you decided to throw this into my face, without realizing why I even made this statement, to another person.
Let me spell it out to you. You cannot debate blind ignorance. When fact after fact is put out, and still the person argues on.
I quit debating JTF in any serious way quite a while ago when I found out how deeply the brainwashing had become. Are you telling me you are just as brainwashed?
These discussions are tedious, and have been so blown out of the water proven fake that I only find the first supposed link and if it can be proven faulty, just like I did with yours, then I dismiss the rest of the posts, because it has become obvious that the poster was incapable of finding the obvious flaw, and there is no reason to trust any of the other links are any less faulty.
And since you have now shown that your rationality is in question, I see no reason to take anything you say as legitimate discussion.
Here are a total of 4 hours of lectures full of rock solid 911 facts by theologian David Ray Griffin.
Find me ONE, i said ONE fact in these 4 hours lectures that isn’t true.
I’m waiting for your reply.
. 911 and the American Empire: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3538037502590699697&q=DAVID+RAY+GRIFFIN&total=328&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
. 911 Commission Report: Ommissions and Distortions http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154&q=DAVID+RAY+GRIFFIN&total=328&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2
.9/11 The Myth and the Reality http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-275577066688213413&q=DAVID+RAY+GRIFFIN&total=328&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
[quote]jeffdirect wrote:
More BS[/quote]
No, your a nutcase, refused my response, yet suddenly expect me to follow your rules.
Dismissed.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
YES, lets look to Popular Mechanics for the “unbiased truth” about 9/11…
Well we sure as hell ain’t gonna get it from you. At this point I don’t care what you post, your insanity is dismissed.
You are the biggest nutcase here, and until I see any semblance of sanity from you then there is no use even attempting an intelligent discussion with you.[/quote]
Your pissed because I just showed you how bias Popular Mechanics is toward the military – the same entity that pulled off 9/11.
The only nut cases are people who still believe for one, the fairy tale that the most powerful military power in the history of the WORLD couldn’t have a fighter jet over DC inside of TWO F’n HOURS… under ANY circumstance. Imagine if it took two hours for an EMT helicopter to reach a trauma victim at an accident site. I guess they could just say “we weren’t expecting it”.
Once you buy that, ANYTHING is possible – even the 9/11 Commission doesn’t believe it – why the hell do you?
9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us,” said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth…
F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers’ Statements
WASHINGTON - At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today…
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, but it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department…
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4392
Knowing everything thats been revealed since 9/11 you’d have to be a complete moron or scared witless to believe 19 Arab hijackers successfully trained for 5 years inside the US and pulled off a job that relied SOLELY on our government’s “bureaucracy and incompetence” from the very beginning, all the way until they stepped onto the planes and flew for two hours over the most heavily guarded airspace in the world and finished by crashing into MILITARY HEADQUARTERS.
And then we invaded Iraq…
George W Bush, White House told 935 lies after September 11
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23098129-401,00.html
Find me something (one thing) this administration was actually right about or didn’t outright lie about… yeah, “Arabs” pulled off 9/11.
Nice youtube video on the lies of this administration… a great watch.
[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
The Mage wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:
YES, lets look to Popular Mechanics for the “unbiased truth” about 9/11…
Well we sure as hell ain’t gonna get it from you. At this point I don’t care what you post, your insanity is dismissed.
You are the biggest nutcase here, and until I see any semblance of sanity from you then there is no use even attempting an intelligent discussion with you.
Your pissed because I just showed you how bias Popular Mechanics is toward the military – the same entity that pulled off 9/11.
The only nut cases are people who still believe for one, the fairy tale that the most powerful military power in the history of the WORLD couldn’t have a fighter jet over DC inside of TWO F’n HOURS… under ANY circumstance. Imagine if it took two hours for an EMT helicopter to reach a trauma victim at an accident site. I guess they could just say “we weren’t expecting it”.
Once you buy that, ANYTHING is possible – even the 9/11 Commission doesn’t believe it – why the hell do you?
9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us,” said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth…
F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers’ Statements
WASHINGTON - At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today…
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, but it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department…
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4392
Knowing everything thats been revealed since 9/11 you’d have to be a complete moron or scared witless to believe 19 Arab hijackers successfully trained for 5 years inside the US and pulled off a job that relied SOLELY on our government’s “bureaucracy and incompetence” from the very beginning, all the way until they stepped onto the planes and flew for two hours over the most heavily guarded airspace in the world and finished by crashing into MILITARY HEADQUARTERS.
And then we invaded Iraq…
George W Bush, White House told 935 lies after September 11
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23098129-401,00.html
Find me something (one thing) this administration was actually right about or didn’t outright lie about… yeah, “Arabs” pulled off 9/11.[/quote]
… heads should have rolled!
Federal Aviation Administration, Air Force: so obvious!
Here are several logical fallacies the conspiracy theorist commit. These are not exclusive to 9/11 but to most ALL conspiracies.
-The sheer size of the conspiracy:
The Clinton debacle had what, 3 or 4 people involved, 10 if you start counting se�����������������������������
[quote]Limbic wrote:
… heads should have rolled!
[/quote]
At least!
Here are several logical fallacies the conspiracy theorist commit. These are not exclusive to 9/11 but to most ALL conspiracies.
-The sheer size of the conspiracy:
The Clinton debacle had what, 3 or 4 people involved, 10 if you start counting secret service men, and even that couldnt be kept under wraps. The 9/11 “Truthers” like to believe that this is being kept under wraps by THOUSANDS if not millions of people. Basically everyone in every government branch is covering SOMETHING up. The government might be up to no good, but that doesnt mean that thousands of people in it are so evil they are willing to let this happen.
-Someone had something to gain:
Perhaps Bush or anyone in his cabinet or any of their friends did have something to gain. I’d agree with most of the conspiracy people in that they DID by going to war. However, this DOES NOT mean that they did it. Just because someone gained something does not mean they actually committed the crime.
- Most of the physics have been worked out already:
Get.Over.It. The steel didnt MELT, it was weakened beyond the point of being able to sustain the floors above it, and when those came crashing down they collapsed the ones below them.
-Bombs… SERIOUSLY? Do you understand what goes into a building demolition? This isnt something you could sneak by EVERYONE that worked in the building, plant discretely, and then set it off all under the radar.
-Believing only selective accounts. EVERYONE that says the government did it is right. EVERYONE that says they didnt is wrong. All eye witness accounts that say it was a missle are right, all accounts that say it was a plane are wrong.
-Anomaly hunting: simply looking for things that dont quite fit together. This does not mean proof, it simply means things that are unexplained as of yet. This is basically what ghosts hunters do (SEE, it gets hot right here…explain that!)
And quite simply…what is more likely? A small group of 20 guys pulling this off amongst themselves or the entire government working secretly to destruct two of the biggest buildings in the world unbeknownst to everyone working in the buildings and everyone that had information about it keeping quiet. Give me a break.