Muslims on YouTube

[pat]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Superstition? Prove there is no God and I will follow your lead.

It’s impossible to prove that which is unmeasurable. God is not observable and therefore unmeasurable.

Proving belief in god is a superstition is not as difficult because by definition a superstition is a belief which is not based on reason or factual knowledge.

If I said the Flying Spaghetti Monster (cheese be upon him) demands a ritual eating of the Holy Meatball to prevent a 40 ft flood of Bolognese sauce would that be considered rational thought or superstition? I see no difference in worship of God and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.[/quote]

Very little can be proven deductively beyond the shadow of a doubt. Mathematics is the closest thing and it is actually metaphysical in nature. 2+2 doesn’t actually exist, it is merely an expression. You have proven nothing with the flying spaghetti monster.

You have every right in the world to be atheist , but you cannot prove he does not exist. I know you can’t because it has been tried ad-nauseum and I don’t feel like getting into it unless you actually have some new insight in to the matter. I mean new insight, not rehashed old insights. Otherwise, I won’t try to convince you if you won’t try to convince me.

[pat]

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Big deal, 5 people converted to islam on their own. Hooray for you.

Those were just few names that I thought you might recognize.

You haven’t adressed my question. Is the US allowing its citizens to be converted at gunpoint? Last I checked, thousands and thousands of people were converting every year. What’s the deal with those?

I am pretty cure if you were to call the Vatican and ask them their goals, it would be to lead people toward salvation, not dominate the world.

You have a very short memory then.

Christianity has been used to justify some of the most horrendous atrocities in history.

Sure there are some Christian kooks out their who spew hate, but the numbers in Christianity or any other religion for that matter are exponentially fewer than in Islam.

I suspect they’re pretty much equal in proportion (basic probability), but the radical Muslims happen to grab headlines because they blow up planes.[/quote]

What?! You are delusional. We are talking about now not 700 years ago. Pretty much equal?! You are wasting my time.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Very little can be proven deductively beyond the shadow of a doubt. Mathematics is the closest thing and it is actually metaphysical in nature. 2+2 doesn’t actually exist, it is merely an expression. You have proven nothing with the flying spaghetti monster.

You have every right in the world to be atheist , but you cannot prove he does not exist. I know you can’t because it has been tried ad-nauseum and I don’t feel like getting into it unless you actually have some new insight in to the matter. I mean new insight, not rehashed old insights. Otherwise, I won’t try to convince you if you won’t try to convince me.[/quote]

I am not trying to disprove it. I am trying to show that it is a superstition.

It’s not even the believing part that I consider superstition but rather the behaviors brought about by those particular beliefs.

[Sloth]

[quote]lixy wrote:

I suspect they’re pretty much equal in proportion (basic probability), but the radical Muslims happen to grab headlines because they blow up planes.[/quote]

Huh? You base it on ‘basic probability?’
Wouldn’t the use of surveys, polls, and noting the ‘hot spots’ of the world serve far better? Or, treatment of religious minorities, women, apostates, heretics, and even westernized muslims be better indicators?

Radical Muslims happen to grab headlines because of how many regions and peoples are brutalized and oppressed by them in the present.

[pat]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

It’s not even the believing part that I consider superstition but rather the behaviors brought about by those particular beliefs. [/quote]

Next time you watch Soul Train, turn the volume off and just look at the people moving. It’s the most ridiculous thing you’ll ever see.
I think your just trying to pick a fight.

[Beowolf]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

It’s not even the believing part that I consider superstition but rather the behaviors brought about by those particular beliefs.

Next time you watch Soul Train, turn the volume off and just look at the people moving. It’s the most ridiculous thing you’ll ever see.
I think your just trying to pick a fight.[/quote]

How can you have faith in something that isn’t a superstition? If you have a shred of evidence, it is no longer faith.

Can you prove to me ghosts don’t exist? Are ghosts not a superstition.

[tmoney1]

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Big deal, 5 people converted to islam on their own. Hooray for you.

Those were just few names that I thought you might recognize.

You haven’t adressed my question. Is the US allowing its citizens to be converted at gunpoint? Last I checked, thousands and thousands of people were converting every year. What’s the deal with those?

[/quote]

As said in previous posts, Islam is growing due to a large birthrate. Also, over 6,000 people a day convert to Islam. That’s over 2,190,000 new Muslims in one year. That doesn’t seem like a lot, but it’s good progress for Islam, and for people following Islam in its intended peaceful path.

Lixy does a good job defending Islam. It seems like people on here only emphasize the bad about Islam. It seems people want to exploit Islam, and find the 1% of stuff that talks bad about the religion.

Why don’t you people focus on the good of Islam? There are many good things about the religion. Instead of watching stuff on TV that shows Muslim suicide bombers and such, try reading up on Islam and what it’s about, or ask me and Lixy about it.

I agree that moderate Muslims need to take a strong stand against radical Muslims, and their voice needs to be heard. Moderate Muslims greatly outweigh radical Muslims, and peace needs to be spread. Moderate Muslims need to stop taking the ‘to each their own’ mentality and step up.

And if you still want to disrespect Islam, me and Lixy say ‘thank you’. For every time someone says anything disrespectful against Islam, and a Muslim defends it in peace, Muslims receive a blessing from God. So please, give us all the blessings we can get, it’s never ending.

[tmoney1]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Next time you watch Soul Train, turn the volume off and just look at the people moving. It’s the most ridiculous thing you’ll ever see.
I think your just trying to pick a fight.[/quote]

I actually did this, unintentionally. Soul Train was on this past Saturday. I was talking on the phone and had the volume down, and just watching the people moving was cracking me up.

Don Cornelius, The Man.

[lixy]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Huh? You base it on ‘basic probability?’
Wouldn’t the use of surveys, polls, and noting the ‘hot spots’ of the world serve far better?
[/quote]

My comment on the proportion of kooks on both sides was about mindsets. Active kooks would be a different category. Get it?

Trouble is that you people will blame the genocide in Darfur, Hamas’s terrorism, the violence in Lebanon, and the civil war in Iraq on Islam. Newsflash: Islam’s got little to do with any of those conflicts and the sparky situations in these regions are direct consequences of the history of these places.

I have the feeling that if, say the US, was under occupation, we might see some crazies of Jesus commit some atrocities. One only needs to look at the 40’s to realize that some Jews turned terrorists when pushed against the wall. But I’m sure all of you will never sit down and actually ponder that, now will you? It’s much easier to pin it on the different guy because of religion or skin color. Oh well, one more example of intellectual laziness…

[pat]

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
pat36 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

It’s not even the believing part that I consider superstition but rather the behaviors brought about by those particular beliefs.

Next time you watch Soul Train, turn the volume off and just look at the people moving. It’s the most ridiculous thing you’ll ever see.
I think your just trying to pick a fight.

How can you have faith in something that isn’t a superstition? If you have a shred of evidence, it is no longer faith.

Can you prove to me ghosts don’t exist? Are ghosts not a superstition.[/quote]

If you want to split hairs almost anything can be a superstition if you can not prove it’s existence through deductive nominological reasoning. You can’t even prove you or I exist or this forum exists. If you want to get right down to it. As long as I can ask “How do you know -----” you cannot prove it because eventually, you won’t know the answer.

So this leaves us with connotation. I think it’s arrogant to say the theists are superstitious because that act on the belief that God’s exists, yet atheists are every bit as superstitious because they behave on the equally unprovable belief that there is no God. So you can’t have it both ways. If I am superstitious then so are you, because you believe to be fact, that which is unprovable.

[pat]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Huh? You base it on ‘basic probability?’
Wouldn’t the use of surveys, polls, and noting the ‘hot spots’ of the world serve far better?

My comment on the proportion of kooks on both sides was about mindsets. Active kooks would be a different category. Get it?

Trouble is that you people will blame the genocide in Darfur, Hamas’s terrorism, the violence in Lebanon, and the civil war in Iraq on Islam. Newsflash: Islam’s got little to do with any of those conflicts and the sparky situations in these regions are direct consequences of the history of these places.

I have the feeling that if, say the US, was under occupation, we might see some crazies of Jesus commit some atrocities. One only needs to look at the 40’s to realize that some Jews turned terrorists when pushed against the wall. But I’m sure all of you will never sit down and actually ponder that, now will you? It’s much easier to pin it on the different guy because of religion or skin color. Oh well, one more example of intellectual laziness…[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know. When the Germans occupied Poland, I never heard suicide bombers killing innocent civilians to get their point across. When the Soviets occupied the eastern block, there were not mass murders and sectarian violence.

When the Chinese occupied Tibet, I never heard of a homicide bomber blow up a police station full of recruits of their own brothers nonetheless. Nope, historically this kind of violence and hatred is unique to radical Islam.

The irony here is if the violence ceased, the U.S. would leave. Nobody want out more than us, but as long as the crazies you defend keep kill each other as well as American, we have to stay. Nice try, super-fly.

[pat]

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Big deal, 5 people converted to islam on their own. Hooray for you.

Those were just few names that I thought you might recognize.

You haven’t adressed my question. Is the US allowing its citizens to be converted at gunpoint? Last I checked, thousands and thousands of people were converting every year. What’s the deal with those?

As said in previous posts, Islam is growing due to a large birthrate. Also, over 6,000 people a day convert to Islam. That’s over 2,190,000 new Muslims in one year. That doesn’t seem like a lot, but it’s good progress for Islam, and for people following Islam in its intended peaceful path.

Lixy does a good job defending Islam. It seems like people on here only emphasize the bad about Islam. It seems people want to exploit Islam, and find the 1% of stuff that talks bad about the religion.

Why don’t you people focus on the good of Islam? There are many good things about the religion. Instead of watching stuff on TV that shows Muslim suicide bombers and such, try reading up on Islam and what it’s about, or ask me and Lixy about it.

I agree that moderate Muslims need to take a strong stand against radical Muslims, and their voice needs to be heard. Moderate Muslims greatly outweigh radical Muslims, and peace needs to be spread. Moderate Muslims need to stop taking the ‘to each their own’ mentality and step up.

And if you still want to disrespect Islam, me and Lixy say ‘thank you’. For every time someone says anything disrespectful against Islam, and a Muslim defends it in peace, Muslims receive a blessing from God. So please, give us all the blessings we can get, it’s never ending.[/quote]

Feel free to enlighten me on the good Islam is doing. My concern with it is the radical element which even if less than 1% is still huge. Say if the radical element is .5%, .005 X 1.2 Billion is still 6 million. I don’t know about you, but I am not interested in facing an army of that size.

If 6 million people hate your guts and want you dead simply because of who are and where you live, I consider that a scary thought. I don’t have a problem with moderates or people who want to live in peace, but don’t tell me that there are not HUGE problems with in Islam right now.

To use a metaphor, if a church is a body and that body has a cancer, that body will eventually die. Islam’s radical element is a cancer on Islam and will eventually kill it if left untreated, it is a virtual certainty; things cannot stay as they are.
I asked Lixy a while back on what good has Islam done in the world, looking for examples, he had no answer and that’s just sad.

[lixy]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Gee, I don’t know. When the Germans occupied Poland, I never heard suicide bombers killing innocent civilians to get their point across. When the Soviets occupied the eastern block, there were not mass murders and sectarian violence. [/quote]

I was referring to the Irgun and their likes.

Nope, historically this kind of violence and hatred is unique to radical Islam.

What’s the difference between some pilot dropping bombs on civilian areas, snippers taking shots at whatever moves and somebody strapping a bomb? I’ll give you a hint. It involves desperation.

The irony here is if the violence ceased, the U.S. would leave. Nobody want out more than us,

You’re seriously delusional.

The PNAC’s stated goal is “to promote American global leadership.” That’s the body which exerts the most influence on the current administration in Washington.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

[Sloth]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Huh? You base it on ‘basic probability?’
Wouldn’t the use of surveys, polls, and noting the ‘hot spots’ of the world serve far better?

My comment on the proportion of kooks on both sides was about mindsets. Active kooks would be a different category. Get it?

Trouble is that you people will blame the genocide in Darfur, Hamas’s terrorism, the violence in Lebanon, and the civil war in Iraq on Islam. Newsflash: Islam’s got little to do with any of those conflicts and the sparky situations in these regions are direct consequences of the history of these places.

I have the feeling that if, say the US, was under occupation, we might see some crazies of Jesus commit some atrocities. One only needs to look at the 40’s to realize that some Jews turned terrorists when pushed against the wall. But I’m sure all of you will never sit down and actually ponder that, now will you? It’s much easier to pin it on the different guy because of religion or skin color. Oh well, one more example of intellectual laziness…[/quote]

Islam has little do with it? Are you joking? Islam is a central theme in many of the conflicts, treatment of religious minorities, women, apostates, etc.

Let’s take the example’s you gave above.

Hamas:
Hamas’ stance is meshed entirely with Islam. Read their covenant, view their media, etc. It is intellectual laziness to separate Hamas from Islam. It is central to who they are and what they do.
Damn man, they don’t even try to hide it, so why are YOU denying it?

Darfur:
While Darfur itself is more of Arab/non-arab conflict, it doesn’t negate the deliberate targeting of Christians and Animists. It is both racial and religious extremism. To ignore the religious motivations, simply because of a racial element, is intellectual laziness.

Lebanon:
How does this not involve Islam? Fatah Al Islam’s ideologies are firmly based around Islam. And, Hezbollah makes no secret of it’s foundation being set in the Islamic Revolution, and it’s adaption of Islamic Shia ideology. Once again, it governs damn near everything thing they do.

Iraq:
How is conflict focused on sectarian slaughter not religious in nature? Then there’s the targeting of things that are “un-Islamic” (liquor stores, girls schools, etc.) The ‘dhimmitude’ of Iraqi Christians is wide-spread…pay the tax and feel subdued, or convert, or die.

I don’t blame all muslims, but Islam has far more than a “few bad apples.” Indeed, it has a disturbingly large and active extremist population. The examples above are only a small sampling.

Also, where I’ve used the term “intellectual laziness,” it might be more appropriate to substitute in “intellectual dishonesty.” Or, some such thing.

[Headhunter]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Hahahaha…“Today Germany, Tomorrow the World!!”…yeah, just ignore this Hitler guy…he’s off his rocker…

You should use your reason and logic (lol) to understand the video I posted. Those kind folks would consider it an honor to rape your wife and daughter, burn your house down, and then behead you. Go ahead and ignore them, clown boy,…yeah…

Why do you compare Nazi Germany to radical Islam? There is no way they are comparable.

Again, the video you posted is a lie. Many people say many things; it doesn’t mean they are capable of doing what they say they will.

Their only goal is to scare you (terrorism)–I’d say it’s working.[/quote]

Their strategy is not very intelligent. If I am threatened, I won’t run and hide like a rodent. Given their pronouncements, their nests would be exterminated and the Iranian nuke sites would be a nuclear wasteland.

They picked on the wrong people when they attacked America. One day, they’ll strike again and the infection all around the world will be stamped out.

[hedo]

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Big deal, 5 people converted to islam on their own. Hooray for you.

Those were just few names that I thought you might recognize.

You haven’t adressed my question. Is the US allowing its citizens to be converted at gunpoint? Last I checked, thousands and thousands of people were converting every year. What’s the deal with those?

As said in previous posts, Islam is growing due to a large birthrate. Also, over 6,000 people a day convert to Islam. That’s over 2,190,000 new Muslims in one year. That doesn’t seem like a lot, but it’s good progress for Islam, and for people following Islam in its intended peaceful path.

Lixy does a good job defending Islam. It seems like people on here only emphasize the bad about Islam. It seems people want to exploit Islam, and find the 1% of stuff that talks bad about the religion.

Why don’t you people focus on the good of Islam? There are many good things about the religion. Instead of watching stuff on TV that shows Muslim suicide bombers and such, try reading up on Islam and what it’s about, or ask me and Lixy about it.

I agree that moderate Muslims need to take a strong stand against radical Muslims, and their voice needs to be heard. Moderate Muslims greatly outweigh radical Muslims, and peace needs to be spread. Moderate Muslims need to stop taking the ‘to each their own’ mentality and step up.

And if you still want to disrespect Islam, me and Lixy say ‘thank you’. For every time someone says anything disrespectful against Islam, and a Muslim defends it in peace, Muslims receive a blessing from God. So please, give us all the blessings we can get, it’s never ending.[/quote]

Actually Lixy does a poor job of defending Islam and the Arab point of view. Lixy’s arrogance and intellectual dishonesty betray him more often then not. Most of the long term members have either dismissed him or ignore him completely. It’s not effective if people don’t buy it. Why Biotest lets him monopolize this forum is beyond me and to be honest I don’t care all that much. Your a much more effective defender of your faith most days.

Why do you think Islam needs defending? Shouldn’t it’s acts be examined and debated, and if found wanting then critiqued? Is the Political forum of a US bodybuilding site a battleground now? Used to be a place for guys who were primarily into the iron game an outlet to fuck off.

[pat]

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Gee, I don’t know. When the Germans occupied Poland, I never heard suicide bombers killing innocent civilians to get their point across. When the Soviets occupied the eastern block, there were not mass murders and sectarian violence.

I was referring to the Irgun and their likes.

Nope, historically this kind of violence and hatred is unique to radical Islam.

What’s the difference between some pilot dropping bombs on civilian areas, snippers taking shots at whatever moves and somebody strapping a bomb? I’ll give you a hint. It involves desperation.

The irony here is if the violence ceased, the U.S. would leave. Nobody want out more than us,

You’re seriously delusional.

The PNAC’s stated goal is “to promote American global leadership.” That’s the body which exerts the most influence on the current administration in Washington.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.[/quote]

Yes, I don’t know how to lie. You are being dishonest with yourself and everybody else and it’s transparent. Reality doesn’t jive with your version of it.

[pat]

[quote]hedo wrote:
Actually Lixy does a poor job of defending Islam and the Arab point of view. Lixy’s arrogance and intellectual dishonesty betray him more often then not. Most of the long term members have either dismissed him or ignore him completely. It’s not effective if people don’t buy it. Why Biotest lets him monopolize this forum is beyond me and to be honest I don’t care all that much. Your a much more effective defender of your faith most days.

Why do you think Islam needs defending? Shouldn’t it’s acts be examined and debated, and if found wanting then critiqued? Is the Political forum of a US bodybuilding site a battleground now? Used to be a place for guys who were primarily into the iron game an outlet to fuck off.
[/quote]

I agree he does not defend Islam, he defends and justifies the acts of murderous animals. Then he uses some Jedi mind trick that it the U.S. at the root of it all. He give Islam a bad name by justifying murder and trying to call it something else.

[Sloth]

Here’s my issue with Lixy. He hops up and down about the wrongs of the US, yet his religion is oppressing and killing so many (yes, including muslims). Look at the Middle-east, Asia, and Africa. Look at the plight of women, religious minorities, apostates, heretics, etc., etc. But, his posts are lopsidedly directed at skewering US policy.

Oh sure, when pressed, he gives the token “a few bad Islamic apples” reply. Yet, time and again, he downplays the interventionism of Islamic regimes and groups, their oppression, their brutality, their responsibility in prolonging the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, blah, blah, blah.

You really want to fix the middle-east, regions of Africa and Asia? Fix Islam before worrying about the US.

I’m predicting his token response (few bad apples), before he makes his next 20 “bullying US” themed posts.

[orion]

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

They picked on the wrong people when they attacked America. One day, they’ll strike again and the infection all around the world will be stamped out.

[/quote]

Maybe you picked on the wrong people when you attacked them.

Just imagine an Arab leader, after causig the death of 500000 Americans, going on the record that “it was worth it”.

There are relationships like the Israelis and the Palestinians where the partners truly deserve each other.