zahmad, what is you and your commmunity doing about the radicals that are making it worse for the rest?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Yes, I’ve heard this all before…
And yet these heinous things continue to happen on a daily basis all around the world.
As I said originally, if it ain’t Islam, people like you should be directing your efforts at the “Muslims” who don’t seem to know that. Not crying about how “badly” you get treated in a country where you have more fair treatment than you likely would in a Muslim country where you are in the minority sect.
[/quote]
People like me are out doing grassroots education to clear up misconceptions about Islam to Muslims and nonMuslims. Belieive it or not, the group’s that are called “Hammas Supporters” like ICNA and ISNA are focused on this goal. And it’s not enough to only direct our efforts on Muslims because we are also Americans and it’s our duty to speak the truth and stand up for our rights in America also. Muslims cannot sit blindly while Law Makers put them on trial, otherwise one day that fair treatment and those rights will be gone.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Oh, I don’t encourage or condone bigotry. But quit acting like non-Muslims have no reason to be suspicious of Muslims and that Muslims are “poor little victims.”
You think you’re the only one facing bigotry in the US? I was a white guy who grew up in a black neighborhood. My grandparents (2 of whom where Arabs, BTW!) on both sides were immigrants who face hard treatment in the US. Many of my best friends were black men and women. How did we respond? By ignoring the bigots and getting on with our lives. Something Muslims like you should try.
[/quote]
I believe in rights for all Americans, ie the women working for Wal-mart. Ignoring the bigots doesn’t make them go away. There was this thing called the civil rights movement. And today’s world is a different place. The proliferation of slanderous material about Islam is so widespread that it causes serious problems for Muslims in America.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
He has to answer when he says shit like, “Sure, 9/11 was wrong, but I understand why they did it” Or when he denies that his religion is a vehicle for terrible, terrible acts, and claims that Islam has no fault because it’s all the fault of the West or America or the bigots or…
[/quote]
So one Muslim has to answer for the actions of the other? Sorry that’s not the way the legal system works.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I am not judging all by the actions of a few. I have already said you may be a fine man.
And before you get too warm and comfy with your “American bigot who hates Muslims” scenario, you might want to know that I loved and lived for 8 years with a Iranian Shi’ite woman. <shock! I know.> And that I’ve had many, many Muslim friends from most of the countries of the ME.
But you know what? None of them ran around claiming bigotry every 10 mins, and some of them recognized that Islam has some serious problems.
[/quote]
Not surprising since your GP’s were arab.
Did they have political officials questioning their patriotism every 10 mins? Did they have a plethora of websites and “think tanks” attempting to prove how violent and unAmerican all of them are every 10 mins? You really think the outlook upon American Muslims is the same as it was before 9/11 ? It has drastically changed in the past 5 years.
Many non-arabic speaking Muslims learn classical arabic. Alternatively there are extensive exegesis of the Quran written/translated into multiple languages. Otherwise there are scholars that will explain it to them. And yes there are some scholars that explain it in a skewed screwed up way to promote violence.
There was that “Religion of Peace…” thread that showed some study that said 51% of mosques had violent material. One of the violent materials they mentioned was an exegesis (tafseer) of the Quran. Which is why that study is blah, if the Quran mentions war then of course the exegesis will.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
What is Sharia ? Don’t go look it up, give me your current understanding
[/quote]
The word Shariah means “path to the water.” Similar to how the Old Testament included laws to keep Jews “pure” or “cleansed”, the shariah gives Muslims guidelines on how to live their lives to keep them pure. Shariah is not just a legal system, it includes the implementation of faith in Islam. This includes things like praying, fasting, giving charity, and going for Hajj (holy pilgrimage to Mecca). It includes all the implementation of Imaan (faith) not including Ethics/Manners (which are also considered a part of faith). Shariah requires a Muslim to follow the laws of the land that he/she lives in when given religious freedom there. The Shariah is not a “written in stone” system. The basis of Shariah is the Quran and Sunnah, but Shariah considers the reality of the situation. The Shariah of different people in different situations can be different, and that’s why we have different schools of thought. The Shariah legal system was developed for tribal communities, not for the nation-states that we have today. And, the shariah legal system gave nonMuslims their own legal systems (ie Christians would be judged by their own church). So, do I find the Quran and Sunnah repulsive? No.
Just as it is my duty to speak the truth to you, I speak the truth to Muslims also, and the truth is preached daily in the mosque. The Imam consistently speaks of Islamic ethics and the true nature of Islam.
For example, here is a video of a Muslim Scholar about being a Proud, Patriotic, Sharia-abiding American Muslim. And guess what? It was at an ICNA conference, oh no!
the percentage is higher in the quran, but the bible has nearly 3x more. violence in religion ftw
[quote]JEATON wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/muslim-bashing-by-gop-candidates-nothing-new-here/2011/06/17/AGvBouYH_blog.html
“The far right is long on fear mongering and short on providing supportive evidence. They ignore major polls by Gallup, Pew and others that show that the vast majority of Muslims are politically, economically middle class and educationally integrated into American society. Their desire not to be confused by the facts contributes to a growing climate of Islamophobia that has led to discrimination, hate crimes, violence, desecration of mosques and the violation of the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Surveys have shown that Muslims are not looking to install Islamic law in the U.S., promote terrorism or undermine the American Constitution.”[/quote]
Lixy?[/quote]
I am wondering if smh23 isn’t actually Ryan P. McCarter. [/quote]
No, smh is actually smart.
[quote]pat wrote:
No, smh is actually smart.[/quote]
Much obliged Pat, and right back 'atcha.
Thanks Chushin, I hope you’re not one of those that pick on Muslims and judge all Muslims on the actions of a few, and if you are then I hope you can seek the truth.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
zahmad, what is you and your commmunity doing about the radicals that are making it worse for the rest?[/quote]
About 40% of the American Muslim radicals that have been caught have been turned in by Muslims. All the major American Muslim organizations denounce radical actions and make efforts to preach true Islam.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
zahmad, what is you and your commmunity doing about the radicals that are making it worse for the rest?[/quote]
About 40% of the American Muslim radicals that have been caught have been turned in by Muslims. All the major American Muslim organizations denounce radical actions and make efforts to preach true Islam.
[/quote]
That’s a good start. I haven’t heard very much from the media on that.
I wonder if these two belong to any particular religion?
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-seattle-terror-plot,0,5736498.story
I would suggest reading the book Zeitoun. It doesn’t settle any of this but it is definitely related. It’s about a Muslim guy who stayed in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, paddling around in a canoe to save people and feed dogs that had been left behind and whatnot. The way he is treated by authorities makes you pretty mad as you read it.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Yes, I’ve heard this all before…
And yet these heinous things continue to happen on a daily basis all around the world.
As I said originally, if it ain’t Islam, people like you should be directing your efforts at the “Muslims” who don’t seem to know that. Not crying about how “badly” you get treated in a country where you have more fair treatment than you likely would in a Muslim country where you are in the minority sect.
[/quote]
People like me are out doing grassroots education to clear up misconceptions about Islam to Muslims and nonMuslims. Belieive it or not, the group’s that are called “Hammas Supporters” like ICNA and ISNA are focused on this goal. And it’s not enough to only direct our efforts on Muslims because we are also Americans and it’s our duty to speak the truth and stand up for our rights in America also. Muslims cannot sit blindly while Law Makers put them on trial, otherwise one day that fair treatment and those rights will be gone.[/quote]
With one hand, while the other hand supports terror groups. Face it Zahmed, even the “moderate” musilms you appologize for support terrorism. Until that changes, you’ll be judges alongside them.
http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscellaneous/93Phillyfinal.pdf
[quote]smh23 wrote:
I would suggest reading the book Zeitoun. It doesn’t settle any of this but it is definitely related. It’s about a Muslim guy who stayed in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, paddling around in a canoe to save people and feed dogs that had been left behind and whatnot. The way he is treated by authorities makes you pretty mad as you read it.[/quote]
I know that guy 
Here’s some reading Material for you chushin -
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
zahmad, what is you and your commmunity doing about the radicals that are making it worse for the rest?[/quote]
About 40% of the American Muslim radicals that have been caught have been turned in by Muslims. All the major American Muslim organizations denounce radical actions and make efforts to preach true Islam.
[/quote]
Can you back this up with a source. I, for one, would feel better knowing this is true.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
I would suggest reading the book Zeitoun. It doesn’t settle any of this but it is definitely related. It’s about a Muslim guy who stayed in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, paddling around in a canoe to save people and feed dogs that had been left behind and whatnot. The way he is treated by authorities makes you pretty mad as you read it.[/quote]
I know that guy :)[/quote]
That’s pretty cool, do you live in New Orleans? The book was hard to read without getting angry, though I do believe that those cops were under a ton of stress.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’d like for someone to play the specific excerpts or provide the quotes where the GOP candidates allegedly bashed Muslims.
I watched the debate and certainly didn’t see it there.[/quote]
Cain said some stupid shit early on, then backed off of it during the debate. The others handled it well I thought.