Multiple Attackers and a Pistol

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Sucker puncher got pounded and is going to jail. Fucking awesome. Well done, kids.

Would have done exactly the same to anyone following me to my home and hitting me first. In a case I was on my own, I wouldn’t even use my fists, my knees, elbows or some chilli pepper spray to disfigure the motherfucker. My crowbar always rests on the passenger seat for this kind of situation.[/quote]

From your “hate thread” I gather that you spend time in multiple countries, so understand that the following is at best a layman’s words with only partial relevance.

The crowbar is also considered lethal force. Assuming you are operating in the private(read non-government, no LEO or .mil) sphere than you should really only utilize it in situations where you would be just as comfortable doing a mag-dump into someone’s chest. I’m not saying that getting drilled in the face by your attacker while you remain seated is not a “lethal force situation”, just that the legalities of using your crow bar are much like those surrounding firearms.

I fully support you using any force needed to stop an assaut that is happening to you, but if that force is “crowbar” level than we should actually be operating on a “what’s the best we have” paradigm. In the situation you noted above consider a liberal application of the skinny pedal on the right, coupled with a disregard for the integrity of the sheet metal surrounding you, and disdain for wether or not your path goes around, over, or through your attacker. Basically, your car weighs more than your crowbar and you can probably hit harder with it.

Regards,

Robert A

I just checked that thread out. Didn’t make it past the 3rd page, but it served as a salient reminder that the internet can be a very depressing place.

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Sucker puncher got pounded and is going to jail. Fucking awesome. Well done, kids.

Would have done exactly the same to anyone following me to my home and hitting me first. In a case I was on my own, I wouldn’t even use my fists, my knees, elbows or some chilli pepper spray to disfigure the motherfucker. My crowbar always rests on the passenger seat for this kind of situation.[/quote]

From your “hate thread” I gather that you spend time in multiple countries, so understand that the following is at best a layman’s words with only partial relevance.

The crowbar is also considered lethal force. Assuming you are operating in the private(read non-government, no LEO or .mil) sphere than you should really only utilize it in situations where you would be just as comfortable doing a mag-dump into someone’s chest. I’m not saying that getting drilled in the face by your attacker while you remain seated is not a “lethal force situation”, just that the legalities of using your crow bar are much like those surrounding firearms.

I fully support you using any force needed to stop an assaut that is happening to you, but if that force is “crowbar” level than we should actually be operating on a “what’s the best we have” paradigm. In the situation you noted above consider a liberal application of the skinny pedal on the right, coupled with a disregard for the integrity of the sheet metal surrounding you, and disdain for wether or not your path goes around, over, or through your attacker. Basically, your car weighs more than your crowbar and you can probably hit harder with it.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Are you suggesting hit and run? I wouldn’t really get much pleasure from that, trust me.

The crowbar is my protection ‘‘weapon’’ of choice in any country I drive. I don’t like guns. I prefer to feel the impact of a blow that I inflict upon someone with my bare hands, knees or head, or a blunt instrument, because somehow, that turns me on greatly. Spoken like a true psycho bitch indeed :slight_smile:

I’m aware of the gravity of the situation when using a crowbar, and I know, I run the risk to be charged for aggravated battery. I might even get killed in the process, shot dead and what have you. But if someone follows me for 30 mins, then rushes to my car to lambast me with punches, my first instinct will be to defend myself with whatever weapon I have on me. I could use my hands, of course and break their neck but, I am, after all a woman, a defenceless woman :wink: What if that bastard wants to rape me after rendering me unconscious? I am pretty sexy when I’ve fainted and, I dress rather provocatively when I drive… I’m a ‘‘frightened’’ woman in her car, threatened by some motherfucker – yes, I’d use this as an excuse in court :wink: and I am confident that I’ll get away with smashing him with my crowbar.

In all seriousness, trust me, I always drive away from road ragers, even with my crowbar on the side. However, in a situation like the one with the pistol guy, I will not think twice. I will make an exception and face the consequence of my actions.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I just checked that thread out. Didn’t make it past the 3rd page, but it served as a salient reminder that the internet can be a very depressing place.

[/quote]

It’s only a depressing place if you allow it to depress you :slight_smile:

As far as I’m concerned, that thread was/still is fun. I love being crass and I understand that is enough to put some people off. But I really don’t care.

There was no way I was going to get on my all fours and let the haters fuck me in the ass.

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
I just checked that thread out. Didn’t make it past the 3rd page, but it served as a salient reminder that the internet can be a very depressing place.

[/quote]

It’s only a depressing place if you allow it to depress you :slight_smile:

As far as I’m concerned, that thread was/still is fun. I love being crass and I understand that is enough to put some people off. But I really don’t care.

There was no way I was going to get on my all fours and let the haters fuck me in the ass.
[/quote]

No doubt. I really meant the way everyone posting in that thread worked themselves into a frenzy over whether or not you (a stranger on the internet) are ‘real’. There were grown men in there doing their monkey dances over whether or not it was your abs in a photo you posted. It’s depressing that so many people’s lives are that trivial!

As far as the crowbar goes, if you’re in the UK, and you ‘genuinely believed’ the person attacking you was armed, then you’d be more than entitled to go to work on them with the crowbar. The key, as with any violence, is witnesses. And as with any violence, if you’re looking to be the decisive winner, a lack of witnesses is always preferable as you can make armed self-defence stick a lot easier.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
As far as the crowbar goes, if you’re in the UK, and you ‘genuinely believed’ the person attacking you was armed, then you’d be more than entitled to go to work on them with the crowbar. The key, as with any violence, is witnesses. And as with any violence, if you’re looking to be the decisive winner, a lack of witnesses is always preferable as you can make armed self-defence stick a lot easier. [/quote]

I’d definitely prefer that there was no witness around. And no camera. When I used to train Krav, our instructors really emphasized on that. I’m always aware of my surroundings and know where the cameras are at anywhere I go. If I were to be followed, stopped and assaulted in my car in a random residential area with likely CCTV lurking around, I don’t think I’ll think that rationally though, with a crowbar as a weapon. They’ll send me to jail, regardless. Don’t they bang up homeowners for protecting their house against burglars?

I used to keep a machete under my bed at night. Nowadays it’s just cricket bat. Baseball bat when I’m the States. I’m a single woman living in a big home by myself. I will not let some intruder ‘‘violates’’ me. But they’ll send me to jail when I bludgeon him or them to death, anyway. Ah… I love UK laws :slight_smile:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
As far as the crowbar goes, if you’re in the UK, and you ‘genuinely believed’ the person attacking you was armed, then you’d be more than entitled to go to work on them with the crowbar. The key, as with any violence, is witnesses. And as with any violence, if you’re looking to be the decisive winner, a lack of witnesses is always preferable as you can make armed self-defence stick a lot easier. [/quote]

I’d definitely prefer that there was no witness around. And no camera. When I used to train Krav, our instructors really emphasized on that. I’m always aware of my surroundings and know where the cameras are at anywhere I go. If I were to be followed, stopped and assaulted in my car in a random residential area with likely CCTV lurking around, I don’t think I’ll think that rationally though, with a crowbar as a weapon. They’ll send me to jail, regardless. Don’t they bang up homeowners for protecting their house against burglars?

I used to keep a machete under my bed at night. Nowadays it’s just cricket bat. Baseball bat when I’m the States. I’m a single woman living in a big home by myself. I will not let some intruder ‘‘violates’’ me. But they’ll send me to jail when I bludgeon him or them to death, anyway. Ah… I love UK laws :)[/quote]

Ye no doubt. It’s a funny old place at times. Thanks to your hate thread, and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, I have a an idea that you’d probably end up beating the burglar to death with ‘a 15" black rubber cock’.

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
As far as the crowbar goes, if you’re in the UK, and you ‘genuinely believed’ the person attacking you was armed, then you’d be more than entitled to go to work on them with the crowbar. The key, as with any violence, is witnesses. And as with any violence, if you’re looking to be the decisive winner, a lack of witnesses is always preferable as you can make armed self-defence stick a lot easier. [/quote]

I’d definitely prefer that there was no witness around. And no camera. When I used to train Krav, our instructors really emphasized on that. I’m always aware of my surroundings and know where the cameras are at anywhere I go. If I were to be followed, stopped and assaulted in my car in a random residential area with likely CCTV lurking around, I don’t think I’ll think that rationally though, with a crowbar as a weapon. They’ll send me to jail, regardless. Don’t they bang up homeowners for protecting their house against burglars?

I used to keep a machete under my bed at night. Nowadays it’s just cricket bat. Baseball bat when I’m the States. I’m a single woman living in a big home by myself. I will not let some intruder ‘‘violates’’ me. But they’ll send me to jail when I bludgeon him or them to death, anyway. Ah… I love UK laws :)[/quote]

Ye no doubt. It’s a funny old place at times. Thanks to your hate thread, and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, I have a an idea that you’d probably end up beating the burglar to death with ‘a 15" black rubber cock’. [/quote]

Im laughing so friggin hard right now. I might just take that beating

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
Are you suggesting hit and run? I wouldn’t really get much pleasure from that, trust me.[/quote]
Nope, I am suggesting “fearing for your life” AND un-assing the area. The pleasure comes later.

To accomplish said goals I am supporting using the heaviest club you have available, in this case one with an internal combustion engine.

[quote]
I don’t like guns.[/quote]
Ok, but how do you launch the bullets then?

I am all for you using every available means at your disposal. I was just offering that there are options apart from going “hands on” that may be preferable. I would hate for you, or anyone, to catch a charge because they defendend themselves in a way that could be interpreted as “aggressive”. Same reason for my dislike of “warning shots”, in fact I am aware of a case in Florida(I think the state where your US residence is) where a warning shot landed a WWII vet in prison for a long time.

Well, he didn’t have the gun until his wife(Charlie’s Angels extra) handed it off. I will just put it out there for that if you think someone is following you driving towards the closest police station/barracks is pretty sound. If you are SURE someone is following, doing the same plus calling the police as saying you are being followed can also bring decent results.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

Ye no doubt. It’s a funny old place at times. Thanks to your hate thread, and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, I have a an idea that you’d probably end up beating the burglar to death with ‘a 15" black rubber cock’. [/quote]

LMFAO!!! Good one!

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Nope, I am suggesting “fearing for your life” AND un-assing the area. The pleasure comes later.

To accomplish said goals I am supporting using the heaviest club you have available, in this case one with an internal combustion engine.
[/quote]

I see. Driving off. Interestingly enough, I’d usually walk away from someone shouting abuse at me or challenging me for a fight because I’ve reached a great level of self control and, I know a physical confrontation is not worth the bother… unless the guy/girl hits me first…

But would I drive away from someone stepping out of his car to lunge at me with punches? Not sure about that.

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Ok, but how do you launch the bullets then?
[/quote]

But a bullet piercing someone’s chest or skull has no effect on me. I’m much more used to getting pleasure from pure physical contact :slight_smile: If I were a gun lover, I would definitely keep one in my car for protection, and would definitely use it to shoot my aggressor down.

[quote]Robert A wrote:
I am all for you using every available means at your disposal. I was just offering that there are options apart from going “hands on” that may be preferable. I would hate for you, or anyone, to catch a charge because they defendend themselves in a way that could be interpreted as “aggressive”. Same reason for my dislike of “warning shots”, in fact I am aware of a case in Florida(I think the state where your US residence is) where a warning shot landed a WWII vet in prison for a long time.
[/quote]

You make a valid and sensible point. But I’m still sure I might have a chance of getting away with battery as a ‘‘frightened’’, helpless woman. Don’t you think?

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Well, he didn’t have the gun until his wife(Charlie’s Angels extra) handed it off. I will just put it out there for that if you think someone is following you driving towards the closest police station/barracks is pretty sound. If you are SURE someone is following, doing the same plus calling the police as saying you are being followed can also bring decent results.
[/quote]

Hahaha, ‘‘Charlie’s Angels Extra’’!!!

Robert, I’m not really fussed about the guy firing his gun after getting pounded. I’m more fussed about him stalking me and then launching at me in the hope of knocking me out. I agree, driving to the police station is the most reasonable thing to do when you sense you’ve got a fucking psycho on your tail. However, some days, the need to crack somebody’s arm open with your crowbar can get stronger, primal instinct prevails, especially if you’re having a fucking bad day and, the fact that, the motherfucker behind you is not willing to let go, irritates every single fibre of your being.

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

Robert, I’m not really fussed about the guy firing his gun after getting pounded. I’m more fussed about him stalking me and then launching at me in the hope of knocking me out. I agree, driving to the police station is the most reasonable thing to do when you sense you’ve got a fucking psycho on your tail. However, some days, the need to crack somebody’s arm open with your crowbar can get stronger, primal instinct prevails, especially if you’re having a fucking bad day and, the fact that, the motherfucker behind you is not willing to let go, irritates every single fibre of your being.

[/quote]

I offer the following with the utmost respect, and as an explanation of whrere I am coming from.

STRATEGIC LEVEL(what likely matters)

I get the indignation, but I am of firm conviction that “rightious” has very little to do with proficiency at violence. I wish we lived in a world where being good or true insured victory. We don’t.

I get that smothering ego is harder to do on “bad days”. One of the lessons I learned in my uncool, and not forum group think approved, training in traditional martial arts is the notion that the first thing we cut with the sword is our ego. There will be no room for it. Not once we are in hostile contact. Than it is all tactics and technical ability to do the damn thing.

I will submit the idea that if someone you don’t know is following you, i.e. “Shooty McRoadRager” than you have little to gain by “fighting” him(I am making the distinction between “fighting” and “combat” that Irish is far better at defining). You can’t gain any social standing with him. Fuck, do you even want his acknowledgement?

Fighting is for proving dominance or superiority. Just by being who you are you have that over someone so clueless about what violence means that he wants to drive 30 minutes to slap/punch an emo kid. He has nothing you want. If you KO him, are you going to go through his pockets for trophies? Do you get to seize all of his carnally desirable women folk and hail livestock.(Or, owing to my “Redneck”/flyover status-hail women folk and carnally desirable livestock) No, of course not. You can’t even put a sheep in your car.

You also cannot change that kind of stupid. Do you really think that guy managed to survive into early baldness and bland sex without ever catching a beating? If getting wrecked was going to adjust him, it would have happened. This goes double for the kind of feral humans you spoke of when you wrote “will not be violated”. Those people are sufficiently broken enough that I make no attempt at understanding their motives. In fact, I consider pleas that I do so an insult. I will say that generally, selfish, violent people with poor impulse control find themselves on the wrong end of a dust up with regularity. Their continued presence in society indicates to me that we are unlikely to change them with one more beating.

So fuck them. Drive on. The enjoyment comes later.

TACTICAL

I will offer up the idea that if someone gets up to your driver’s window and close enough to lay hands on you, than you have missed something awareness wise. The asshole didn’t come out of nowhere. He is just a collection of molecules like every other person. He came from somewhere. We just didn’t notice. So, if we are getting punched and that is our clue/confirmation of bad shit than perhaps we have missed other things as well. We know where he is, but that might be the sum of our threat assessment.

Feral humans can still run in packs. This guy brought his wife, and she brought a gun. I submit that if the engine is still running immediately re-locating to a different position is preferable to fighting from the position that has just been ambushed. IF during said relocation the guy gets run over, he bought the ticket, he takes the ride.

All we know for sure is someone liked there chances against us enough to try us on for size, right HERE, right NOW. If we change position we might change whatever those chances were. So aggressively maneuver if possible. If not, THAN engage and start doing real damage. SEE comment about sheet metal, skinny pedal, and casual attitude. Nerd Note: Clausewitz said this was going to come down to maneuver and slaughter, and that the more we made of the first the lest we would need of the second. Also, the fact you can read him in the original, or closer to it, is another reason you are awesome.

TECHNICAL

Clubs work better when you can get your hips under and into the swing. Wearing a seatbelt might preclude that. A car is a bigger club anyway, so if we are going to do this…

Regards,

Robert A

^awesome.

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

Robert, I’m not really fussed about the guy firing his gun after getting pounded. I’m more fussed about him stalking me and then launching at me in the hope of knocking me out. I agree, driving to the police station is the most reasonable thing to do when you sense you’ve got a fucking psycho on your tail. However, some days, the need to crack somebody’s arm open with your crowbar can get stronger, primal instinct prevails, especially if you’re having a fucking bad day and, the fact that, the motherfucker behind you is not willing to let go, irritates every single fibre of your being.

[/quote]

Excellent, Robert.

The problem with feral animals in the United States is you cannot kill them like you can in other locations. When I am in the US, it amazes me the amount of unprofessional behavior that is displayed, it is almost like people feel entitled to be assholes, without ever worrying about repercussions. But, I will admit, I have be gone for several years.

I offer the following with the utmost respect, and as an explanation of whrere I am coming from.

STRATEGIC LEVEL(what likely matters)

I get the indignation, but I am of firm conviction that “rightious” has very little to do with proficiency at violence. I wish we lived in a world where being good or true insured victory. We don’t.

I get that smothering ego is harder to do on “bad days”. One of the lessons I learned in my uncool, and not forum group think approved, training in traditional martial arts is the notion that the first thing we cut with the sword is our ego. There will be no room for it. Not once we are in hostile contact. Than it is all tactics and technical ability to do the damn thing.

I will submit the idea that if someone you don’t know is following you, i.e. “Shooty McRoadRager” than you have little to gain by “fighting” him(I am making the distinction between “fighting” and “combat” that Irish is far better at defining). You can’t gain any social standing with him. Fuck, do you even want his acknowledgement?

Fighting is for proving dominance or superiority. Just by being who you are you have that over someone so clueless about what violence means that he wants to drive 30 minutes to slap/punch an emo kid. He has nothing you want. If you KO him, are you going to go through his pockets for trophies? Do you get to seize all of his carnally desirable women folk and hail livestock.(Or, owing to my “Redneck”/flyover status-hail women folk and carnally desirable livestock) No, of course not. You can’t even put a sheep in your car.

You also cannot change that kind of stupid. Do you really think that guy managed to survive into early baldness and bland sex without ever catching a beating? If getting wrecked was going to adjust him, it would have happened. This goes double for the kind of feral humans you spoke of when you wrote “will not be violated”. Those people are sufficiently broken enough that I make no attempt at understanding their motives. In fact, I consider pleas that I do so an insult. I will say that generally, selfish, violent people with poor impulse control find themselves on the wrong end of a dust up with regularity. Their continued presence in society indicates to me that we are unlikely to change them with one more beating.

So fuck them. Drive on. The enjoyment comes later.

TACTICAL

I will offer up the idea that if someone gets up to your driver’s window and close enough to lay hands on you, than you have missed something awareness wise. The asshole didn’t come out of nowhere. He is just a collection of molecules like every other person. He came from somewhere. We just didn’t notice. So, if we are getting punched and that is our clue/confirmation of bad shit than perhaps we have missed other things as well. We know where he is, but that might be the sum of our threat assessment.

Feral humans can still run in packs. This guy brought his wife, and she brought a gun. I submit that if the engine is still running immediately re-locating to a different position is preferable to fighting from the position that has just been ambushed. IF during said relocation the guy gets run over, he bought the ticket, he takes the ride.

All we know for sure is someone liked there chances against us enough to try us on for size, right HERE, right NOW. If we change position we might change whatever those chances were. So aggressively maneuver if possible. If not, THAN engage and start doing real damage. SEE comment about sheet metal, skinny pedal, and casual attitude. Nerd Note: Clausewitz said this was going to come down to maneuver and slaughter, and that the more we made of the first the lest we would need of the second. Also, the fact you can read him in the original, or closer to it, is another reason you are awesome.

TECHNICAL

Clubs work better when you can get your hips under and into the swing. Wearing a seatbelt might preclude that. A car is a bigger club anyway, so if we are going to do this…

Regards,

Robert A

[/quote]

Excellent, Robert.

The problem with feral animals in the United States is you cannot kill them like you can in other locations. When I am in the US, it amazes me the amount of unprofessional behavior that is displayed, it is almost like people feel entitled to be assholes, without ever worrying about repercussions. But, I will admit, I have be gone for several years.

[quote]idaho wrote:
Excellent, Robert.

The problem with feral animals in the United States is you cannot kill them like you can in other locations. When I am in the US, it amazes me the amount of unprofessional behavior that is displayed, it is almost like people feel entitled to be assholes, without ever worrying about repercussions. But, I will admit, I have be gone for several years.
[/quote]

I totally agree with this. I spent several years living outside of the U.S. and from the outside looking in I would say this country is full of self centered babies. Too many people worrying about what someone else is doing.

[quote]idaho wrote:
Excellent, Robert.

The problem with feral animals in the United States is you cannot kill them like you can in other locations. When I am in the US, it amazes me the amount of unprofessional behavior that is displayed, it is almost like people feel entitled to be assholes, without ever worrying about repercussions. But, I will admit, I have be gone for several years.
[/quote]

Please know that some of us appreciate what you have done, and continue to do. The rudeness and disrespect draws, and will always draw the attention, but it isn’t all that is out there. My way of rationalizing it, is that people ARE entitled to be assholes. They have self ownership, just as we do. What they have not entitlement to do, and what should never happen is for their inconsequential lack of perspective and manners make you feel like less than you are, or that your sacrifices are wasted.

Through their behavior, they self identify themselves. Now, should they make the mistake of confusing your restraint and kindness with timidity and fear. Well, then they have bought that ticket, and they can take the ride.

Thank you for your service.

Regards,

Robert A

Thank you for your service.

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]idaho wrote:
Excellent, Robert.

The problem with feral animals in the United States is you cannot kill them like you can in other locations. When I am in the US, it amazes me the amount of unprofessional behavior that is displayed, it is almost like people feel entitled to be assholes, without ever worrying about repercussions. But, I will admit, I have be gone for several years.
[/quote]

Please know that some of us appreciate what you have done, and continue to do. The rudeness and disrespect draws, and will always draw the attention, but it isn’t all that is out there. My way of rationalizing it, is that people ARE entitled to be assholes. They have self ownership, just as we do. What they have not entitlement to do, and what should never happen is for their inconsequential lack of perspective and manners make you feel like less than you are, or that your sacrifices are wasted.

Through their behavior, they self identify themselves. Now, should they make the mistake of confusing your restraint and kindness with timidity and fear. Well, then they have bought that ticket, and they can take the ride.

Thank you for your service.

Regards,

Robert A

Thank you for your service.[/quote]

Robert,
As always, good thoughts and logical thinking. I was just speaking from a personal reaction about the video. We all have our limits on how far someone is allowed to interfere with our lives. The problem I will have to deal with, when I return for good, is how to restrain from taking any kind of offensive action, when it is not warranted. ex: I get really twitchy when someone on a motorcycle pulls up next to me , while I am driving a vehicle. I have found that the longer I am working a high threat area, the more I want to be left alone in the US, and, I have a tendency to go from zero to condition black in about 5 seconds. I am am honest enough to admit that I would have probably fucked up and killed that guy and then, my life would have been a legal nightmare. Not to deviate from the thread, but, everyone on the combat forum needs to examine how far they are willing go if something like that happens to them. I appreciate your thanks but, it always makes me feel guilty because of the numerous young men from age 18 to 24, who have lost their lives, body parts, and sanity. They are in a league of their own.

people that have fire arms should be smarter than to let their anger get the best of them to the point of starting physical altercations. what are we to assume when such things start? they will escalate, our opponent probably has a weapon, if they have superior numbers they will use them. if he had a gun and the situation didnt require him to use it first and out right to defend himself any other action he took to help the altercation along was working towards the inevitability that that weapon would come into play.

i know its bias and i dont like to make blanket statements but in my life time ive seen some older guys who feel like they have something to prove against youth. its like a god damn clint eastwood syndrome. back in high school around 18 some buddies of mine came to my old house in a tourist beach town. we parked next to another buddy of mine’s house in a legal spot designated with proper signage. when we came up this old fellow bout the age of 60 came up and started losing it on us for parking in front of his house. since i was the only local member of my party i took the initiative to talk to him but i guess eye contact apology and remaining calm were all signs of disrespect in his eyes. he gave me a shove and i let it slide and got in the vehicle when i got in the window was down and he hit the side of our car i told him to calm down and not to touch the vehicle at which point he put his had through the window to grab me by the neck. to my surprise i managfed to remain calm and we talked him down before we left.

he was old, he was bitter, and felt he had something to prove i hate to think had i shot for a double leg take down after he shoved me how drastically both of our lives could have changed. or when he hit my friends vehicle ( i know football means nothing for fighting but im trying to get the point across 5 very strong in shape young guys) had the starting mid line backer, d tackle , free safety , and two competitive high school powerlifters piled out. had we been cut from a shittier cloth perhaps we would have

[quote]Robert A wrote:

I offer the following with the utmost respect, and as an explanation of whrere I am coming from.

STRATEGIC LEVEL(what likely matters)

I get the indignation, but I am of firm conviction that “rightious” has very little to do with proficiency at violence. I wish we lived in a world where being good or true insured victory. We don’t.

I get that smothering ego is harder to do on “bad days”. One of the lessons I learned in my uncool, and not forum group think approved, training in traditional martial arts is the notion that the first thing we cut with the sword is our ego. There will be no room for it. Not once we are in hostile contact. Than it is all tactics and technical ability to do the damn thing.

I will submit the idea that if someone you don’t know is following you, i.e. “Shooty McRoadRager” than you have little to gain by “fighting” him(I am making the distinction between “fighting” and “combat” that Irish is far better at defining). You can’t gain any social standing with him. Fuck, do you even want his acknowledgement?

Fighting is for proving dominance or superiority. Just by being who you are you have that over someone so clueless about what violence means that he wants to drive 30 minutes to slap/punch an emo kid. He has nothing you want. If you KO him, are you going to go through his pockets for trophies? Do you get to seize all of his carnally desirable women folk and hail livestock.(Or, owing to my “Redneck”/flyover status-hail women folk and carnally desirable livestock) No, of course not. You can’t even put a sheep in your car.

You also cannot change that kind of stupid. Do you really think that guy managed to survive into early baldness and bland sex without ever catching a beating? If getting wrecked was going to adjust him, it would have happened. This goes double for the kind of feral humans you spoke of when you wrote “will not be violated”. Those people are sufficiently broken enough that I make no attempt at understanding their motives. In fact, I consider pleas that I do so an insult. I will say that generally, selfish, violent people with poor impulse control find themselves on the wrong end of a dust up with regularity. Their continued presence in society indicates to me that we are unlikely to change them with one more beating.

So fuck them. Drive on. The enjoyment comes later.

TACTICAL

I will offer up the idea that if someone gets up to your driver’s window and close enough to lay hands on you, than you have missed something awareness wise. The asshole didn’t come out of nowhere. He is just a collection of molecules like every other person. He came from somewhere. We just didn’t notice. So, if we are getting punched and that is our clue/confirmation of bad shit than perhaps we have missed other things as well. We know where he is, but that might be the sum of our threat assessment.

Feral humans can still run in packs. This guy brought his wife, and she brought a gun. I submit that if the engine is still running immediately re-locating to a different position is preferable to fighting from the position that has just been ambushed. IF during said relocation the guy gets run over, he bought the ticket, he takes the ride.

All we know for sure is someone liked there chances against us enough to try us on for size, right HERE, right NOW. If we change position we might change whatever those chances were. So aggressively maneuver if possible. If not, THAN engage and start doing real damage. SEE comment about sheet metal, skinny pedal, and casual attitude. Nerd Note: Clausewitz said this was going to come down to maneuver and slaughter, and that the more we made of the first the lest we would need of the second. Also, the fact you can read him in the original, or closer to it, is another reason you are awesome.

TECHNICAL

Clubs work better when you can get your hips under and into the swing. Wearing a seatbelt might preclude that. A car is a bigger club anyway, so if we are going to do this…

Regards,

Robert A

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Fantastic post, Robert. I agree, it’s all bout common sense.

But forgive me. Call me wild, young and ‘‘naive’’… but if I suspect someone is following me home for 30 mins because I cut him through traffic, I will be ready for the fight. Forget about what we’ve learnt about suppressing our ego from the Martial Art school. Hell, as I said previously, nowadays, it’s so easy for me to walk away from the temptation of fighting people in streets or other places when unfairly provoked.

However, in this particular place, fuck it. You follow me to my home for 30 mins, you’re a fucking threat to me. You rush to my car as I stopped to park to ‘‘teach me a lesson’’, then I’ll be gladly happy to crush your bones with my crowbar. One of the few things I hate is to be intimidated, and, that motherfucker following me for 30 mins is merely attempting to do that. First, mentally, by following me, making it clear that I shouldn’t have messed with him, then physically, once he rushes to my car to knock me out.

But before he even gets the chance to do so, I’ll be out by then, wielding my crow bar like a fucking ninja.