Mrgeekys Story

Pharma TRT
1

Been lethargic for years I think possibly due to playing with steroids with out any real knowledge of what I was doing many years ago. Or perhaps its just because my diet has been all over the place all my life and I have always carried a lot of excess fat.

A few years ago I talked a doc in to putting me on testosterone Andriol 40mg caps.
My test levels were 16 nmol/L then. He put me on one cap perday… He obviously didn’t have a clue what he was doing either.
I came off them and went and seen another doctor who had more knowledge. By then my testosterone was down to 13 nmol/L. He started me on 7 caps per day. The change wasnt dramatic but it certainly did change my life for the better. I have been very overweight my whole life even though I have spent years training hard in weights. Mainly due to diet.

I have spent the last two years on TRT, most of that on 7 x 40 mg Andriol Testo caps per day.
After finding out andriol has food coloring in it that is a carcinogen, I played with the dose and found I could easily get by on two caps per day… Im making good gains in my weights on that dose and have been on 2 caps per day for aprox a month now.
Funny enough I feel better after dropping my dosage.

For the first time in my life I have started counting calories and now feel even better than before. I really feel like a million dollars as Im losing weight… Im thinking about getting off TRT at some stage as I cant help but wonder if my problem my whole life has been diet related.

About me.
Age - 52 years old
Height - 182 cm tall
Tummy size- 114 cm Recently down from 117cm. I’m using myfitnesspal and losing fat and adding muscle like never before in my life.
Weight - 110.5 kg down from 115kg a few weeks ago!
Hair - Hair line thinning a little on top and receding a bit in front. Average hairy chest… Everything else normal.
Where do I carry fat - Carry fat on chest and tummy and inner thighs!
Health always been good but have a history of being fat my whole life and issues with lethargy, otherwise all good.

Rx and OCT drugs? Can some one advise what these are and I’ll edit and post info related to this. I once took decca for aprox 6 months with out stacking it with test and I did suffer my current hair thinning / loss as a result.
Lab results - only got old ones to post and will do at the end of this post… New ones to come shortly.
Diet - Mines been all over the place, from low cal, to low carb, to all sorts… Never starved myself though although I did go through a stupid period of living on pure salads. Never seen my abs in my whole life… Always been fat to some degree. Diet is currently 40% carbs, 35% lean protein and 25% good fats/oil. On 2400 calories per day. Will bump up protein and then calories at some stage. Want to get rid of some of this fat first.

Training - 4 to 5 days a week for an hour and a half, with a mix of cardio / weights.
Testes ache - Have done in the past… Havent noticed this symptom for years though but no fever included when it did happen…
Woody changed? - Since dropping down to 2 caps per day not waking up with woodys nightly. As far as erections, never had a problem with this in my life. Always managed to get it up when ever needed.
I think I have covered all that was asked. I havent read the stickies yet… Thats my next thing to do.

The only current issue that I do have that I know of is high e… As can be seen in my bloods below…

Im hoping that will have dropped back a lot now that I have started losing fat and now that I have lowered my dose of test considerably… My understanding is e follows test up and down? Is that correct? If so my lower dose of test will hopefully bring the estrogen levels down and I understand fat people have higher levels of e too so losing fat should also help… .
So theres my story guys…

I have three trains of thought regarding my TRT.

1, Im wondering if I really need to be on TRT… There is no doubt I feel much better for it, but was the reason I felt like crap in the first place due to bad diet and being too fat for way too long causing high estrogen? The first year or more I was on quite a high dose of Test, 7 x 40mg caps per day. I think anyone would feel better on that dose.

2, Stay on TRT but change to cypionate? Reasoning being although Im feeling really great on Andriol testo caps, Im worried about this substance they contain - Sunset yellow FCF - Wikipedia which is a possible carcinogen. Its a shame because the orals are so easy to deal with… I was reading about the protocols you guys seem to have to go through inject hCG every second day… seems like a real hassle…

3, or just stay on andriol and hope they remove the stupid food coloring one day… Its all so simple… Swallow a couple of caps per day and no pituitary gland shut down to worry about… No nut shrinkage… And I am felling like a million dollars on it… Getting really good gains in my weights now I have my TRT and diet right.

4, If I cant get my estrogen down via diet and the lower test dose Im taking then to start looking at taking an A.I.

Im still chewing options over and would be more than happy to hear suggestions

Im open to any thoughts.

TIA for any advice. Cheers guys.

2

these are the latest bloods I had done… Im going to get a new lot soon and will post them too.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34092039/01.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34092039/02.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34092039/03.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34092039/latest.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/34092039/latest1.pdf

3

I would focus on getting your a1c down. This can play a big roll in weight loss, plus you can end up with nerve damage. Your type 2 right? Sounds like it with impaired fasting and elevated a1c. A good diet would be low Carb/high fat. That will fix your lipid profile also.

4

[quote]jim55 wrote:
I would focus on getting your a1c down. This can play a big roll in weight loss, plus you can end up with nerve damage. Your type 2 right? Sounds like it with impaired fasting and elevated a1c. A good diet would be low Carb/high fat. That will fix your lipid profile also.[/quote]

Hi Jim… No dr has never said anything about me being a diabetic. My understanding that to lower a1c, the best method is through diet and exercise which Im doing now… I have exercised all my life but I have ignored my diet… Now that Im dropping weight I expect my a1c and my lipid profile to be considerably better once I lose a lot of fat… I was 117kg from memory when those bloods were done… Im now at 110.5kg . So that’s 1 stone drop in weight and I will keep hopefully get down to around 92kg or around 205 lbs. Im fairly sure that will make a huge difference to my a1c and lipid profile and hopefully estrogen levels.

oh and re fat intake, yes that sounds like good advice, I could modify my diet to bump up good fats and lower carbs. I am keeping an eye on all aspects of it and am open to changes and your advice is one I had in mind… I know the carbs are probably a little high. Although I am very happy that my diet has changed drastically for the better, it is a work in progress. I’ll keep modifying it to suit as I lose weight.

5

You have probibly become very insulin resistant with carrying all that weight around for years. Your body probibly produces a lot of insulin, but you have become resistant to it’s effects, thus glucose rises. Now is the time to lower your glycemic load and save your pancreas from burning out. The dreadful fifties are the years most onset type 2,s are diognosed.

Yes diet, lowering carbs, and exercise to decrease resistance is good. Not familier with your lab values in New Zealand, here we want to be under 7 and prefuribly under 6. for a1c, fasting under 110. I’m type 2 for almost 20 years. I no longer use medication as I control it with diet and exercise. I eat 75f/20p/5c,.

My lipids are perfect as are cardiac indicaters. My last a1c was 5.4. This diet works to control glycemic load and also acts as a natural diuretic as most will drop 5 to 10 lbs. water when beginning diet. Great for blood pressure.

6

My friend you stated that you ate garbage for over 4oty yrs and got on andriol and felt better,now your all freaked-out about some non-sense regarding food coloring. Switch to injections then. There is substantially more harm in obesity than the cure.My friend please stop analysing.Thats the main problem with the internet,to much garbage information. best of luck john

7

TRT with high range TT and FT can lower total cholesterol while improving insulin sensitivity. Speaking of insulin… Are you of indigenous decent? If so, there is a strong factor for diabetes and you would have to make all the more strong dietary changes. You need to avoid white foods [rice, flour, white bread, sugar…] Eat proteins and whole foods.

You need to loose weight. TRT can normally make that possible. But your thyroid hormones are probably FUBAR. Please read the thyroid basics sticky and respond with the body temperature measurements and your history of iodine intake from iodized salt or vitamins that list iodine.

Thyroid hormones regulate your body temperature by regulation of your mitochondria that control your energy and metabolism. With a low metabolism, your are easily have a calorie imbalance and get fat.

You are diabetic, not insulin dependent, but absolutely at risk.

Switch to injections and follow the “standard protocol”.

Also read these stickies, three in total:

  • advice for new guys
  • protocol for injections

I have seen some severe harm from deca only cycles in a few cases. HPTA can be permanently broken. DECA is not a natural hormone and in the cell nuclei it can cause permanent changes in gene expression for a few guys. That is an epigenetic change.

I have never seen Andriol work well. I think that it is an ineffective fad.

Your E2 levels look reasonable, but relative to your T levels not so great.

You labs seem well focused, but that E21 lab suggests that the doc does not know what he is dealing with.

Trying to recall. I don’t think that you can get anastrozole or aromasin there. See what you can find out. All of the Common Wealth nations seem to be difficult from a TRT needs POV.

Action items:

  • self injected T, divided doses, SC, twice a week or EOD to have lower E2
  • anastrozole [oral]1mg/week in divided doses, twice a week or EOD to match T injections, read stickies
  • 250iu hCG SC EOD if you can get that.

CRP is a worry. This is an indicator of Inflammatory processes such as arterial disease. Arterial disease, endothelial cell dysfunction, is promoted by insulin resistance [high insulin], low T, high serum glucose. CRP is not specific to your arteries. Could be sore gums. Homocysteine is cardio specific. If that is elevate, you really need to take action. There are dietary actions that also help:

  • DHEA is labs indicate
  • Fish oil capsules and other EFA’s such as flax seed meal or oil, as well a nuts
  • vitamin C and natural source vit-E
  • 4000-6000 iu vit-D3
  • CoQ10 if blood pressure is elevated, ubiquinol form is best
  • high potency vit-B complex with trace elements and iodine

If you do not have iodized salt there but bread is iodine fortified, you need to stop eating bread and find some other source of iodine.

Low thyroid function reduces your ability to burn blood sugars, which makes you fat, but also promotes insulin resistance.

You have a lot of reading in the stickies to study. Take your time. Advice for new guys explains some terms that may be unfamiliar.

8

[quote]KSman wrote:
TRT etc.[/quote]
Thank you very much for your help KSman…
First please forgive me if Im not understanding of any of this… Im doing my best but it is kind of mind numbing to a newbie.
I must admit its daunting reading and I am taking your advice and taking my time and trying to slowly let it all sink in…

I do understand your advice is to start on injections…
I cant help but wonder though, at the moment I am really feeling on top of the world. Im on a controlled high protein diet and am losing about a kg a week…
Some say that’s too much but at the moment I just feel great. Lots of stamina. Weights are just going from strength to strength. For the first time in many years Im starting to have clear thinking. Its been a long long time since I have felt this good or been this strong or had this much energy…
So I cant help but wonder if I just stay on current (andriol) treatment until there is a need for change??? Can I have your thoughts on this please?

I haven’t had blood tests for I think 6 months now since my last ones so am going in to get some more done.

I have read the stickies and must confess its a little hard to get my head around, especially the abreviations… But Im slowly working it out. I was wondering if you could offer some advice for my blood tests… I have tried to nut them out from the sticky but its going to take time to get my head around it all…

My doctor has ordered these test for me.
eclectrolytes
creatinine
fasting lipids
uric acid
LH/FSH
MSU
albumin creatinine ratio.
And I do understand you think LH/FSH is pointless but I don’t want to argue the point with the doc on that… I’ll just let him go ahead with it.

If Im right I also need these tests done and I know I wont have this list correct… I think I do need help with this.

PSA
estrogen ? Oestradial? e2?
Hemaglobin
free testosterone
total testosterone.
CRP
DRE

Can you fix this list for me please?
Im thinking that my bloods will have changed a lot now that the weights coming off. :slight_smile:

Thyroid - I think my thyroid function tests has always been quite good so no need for any more blood tests in that area?. Hope I have that correct.

Oestradiol - isn’t 50 pmol/l at the extreme end of normal??

Oh and yes we do have iodine in our salt here so that’s not a problem.

I do take lots of fish oil 1500mg caps… Usually 6 per day at least added to that a handful of almonds and usually a teaspoon of peanut butter at breakfast, and usually a drizzle of olive oil on my salads as a regular part of my diet, so hopefully have that area covered…

In the mean time I’ll keep going over those stickys again and again trying to nut them out.

9

Hi Ksamn, I’m guessing you are either busy or more than likely have looked at my last post and thought, (hmm, cant help those that cant help them selves) lol

I realize after reading the stickys a few more times I have those bloods up the whop…

Just busy at the mo with family staying… Once they’re gone I’ll go over that bloods sticky, again and again, and have a go at self correcting my last post and required bloods… So please don’t give up on me yet…

10

The technical stuff is in the advice for new guy sticky. For everything else, google [xxx wiki] then pick the wikipedia article and also explore the links in those. Difficult and technical - yes. Do you have a choice - no. Doc’s cannot be trusted to understand what you can learn in a weekend.

Ping me later on the ksman is here thread. You can get lost in the traffic.