Most Recent Milo

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

majority of injuries i have occurred n 25 years of squatting “heavy” has been in the bottom of the squat. also it is the majority of injuries i have seen and heard of by peers who lift competitively. these peers i talk about are elite level lifters, throwers, etc.

so since the bottom portion of the squat is soooooo dangerous, and the set up out of the rack(as you claim) why not eliminate both form the competition, things change ya-know. just unrack the weight form the monolift, the guy with the best psych-up routine and coolest looking gear wins.

22

Gear, no gear. Baaaaaahhh!

Who knows where it’ll be in 10 years? I’d like to be able to use 12" hooks to deadlift with. Thay way, it’s more of a lock-out with maybe an 18" pull. I bet I’d break 700!

How 'bout this?

Whenever totals are talked about, give out your raw total AND your geared total. At least then we could compare apples to apples and see #1 who is actually STRONGER and #2 who can afford, modify, and use the best gear.

Or, take 5 top lifters in each federation. See what they total with Inzer. Then see what they total with Metal etc. Then we can have a head-to-head comparison of the actual gear which is what a lot of it is anyway.

Give out “Best use of denim” awards each year!

23

[quote]
How 'bout this?

Whenever totals are talked about, give out your raw total AND your geared total. At least then we could compare apples to apples and see #1 who is actually STRONGER and #2 who can afford, modify, and use the best gear.

Or, take 5 top lifters in each federation. See what they total with Inzer. Then see what they total with Metal etc. Then we can have a head-to-head comparison of the actual gear which is what a lot of it is anyway.

Give out “Best use of denim” awards each year![/quote]

That is a bit foolish. For many people training to lift the most in gear will result in loss/slower development of raw strength. If one wants to watch raw lifts go to raw federations.

To me a small improvement of raw numbers by applying shows that the lifter doesn’t know how to train for a competition.
Doesn’t put in the work to master the gear, or simply doesn’t have a good competitive psyche.

Body type etc. can be a factor, but most of the time it is just excuses.

It is so weak to compete and blame the gear etc… Nobody has to compete in geared federations, go somewhaere else instead of staying only top bitch about it afterwards.

people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it

24

[quote]scan7 wrote:
people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it[/quote]

Not unlike you NOT reading this thread anymore right?

It’s not such a smart notion to exclude non-competitors from the roundtable.

Try and apply that in other areas and you’ll soon see how silly it is.

Maybe I shouldn’t discuss how the Patriots will do with the new guys they got this season. I don’t play in the NFL. Better not put in my 2 cents.

Look, until powerlifting can be done on a level playing field, totals will be faily meaningless.

It has never been explained to any sensible degree why lifting raw is not a more legitmate test of strength. No one seems to want to admit it.

If you cannot squat 750 without getting wrapped up like a mummy then you cannot squat 750. Saying otherwise is tantamount to lying.

Oh, and why is it that you can watch any olympic training hall tape and see guys squatting onto thier calves with the same kind of weights PL’ers use with NO wraps, NO belt, NO real gear to speak of?

Just wondering.

25

On another subject, for those who subscribe to MILO, how much does it cost you and when how many issues a year? I heard 3 a year.

26

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
nptitim wrote:
cap’nsalty wrote:
This has been beaten to death ad nauseam, and the end result is usually people calling each other names. I have no idea why MILO would think rehashing points that have been made THOUSANDS of times would make an interesting article, but I guess that’s part of the reason why I don’t have a subscription.

Milo has some pretty good stuff in it if you are interested in powerlifting, weightlifting, strongman, armwrestling, or grip related information and it has a lot of articles and few ads (and not that many pictures).

I think the point is that it takes momentum to begin to change things, so at first people talk about it and take little notice, but as more people dicuss it, and more mainstream media begins to write about it, perhaps a correction and/or more fruitful debate will occur.

good post, i think what happens mostly today, is people who thing gear has gone overboard are shouted down and geared lifters get defensive a little too easily.

again, i agree with the above post, i am sure many (especially guys who get 200-400lbs on there total from gear) would rather this topic not be brought up, but the way things are changed is by starting intelligent conversations that dont end up with RAW-dogs yelling “cheater!” and geared guys yelling back “pussies! sack up and gear up and see who is the strongest!!!”

[/quote]

I have never seen an intelligent debate about gear. Ever. Just read this thread, and try and tell me anyone brought up an original point. (maybe the guy who thinks you should clean it on to the bench and then press it, but I don’t really think that’s going to happen)

27

[quote]derek wrote:
scan7 wrote:
people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it

Not unlike you NOT reading this thread anymore right?

It’s not such a smart notion to exclude non-competitors from the roundtable.

Try and apply that in other areas and you’ll soon see how silly it is.

Maybe I shouldn’t discuss how the Patriots will do with the new guys they got this season. I don’t play in the NFL. Better not put in my 2 cents.

[/quote]

the analogy doesnt hold. the competitors, not the spectators, financially support powerlifting. And that is NEVER going to change, just like tom said, the VAST majority of the public couldnt care less

28

[quote]Hanley wrote:
derek wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
I haven’t been in the loop lately on the gear vs. raw debate, so forgive my ignorance, but how does a monolift help the squat?

You don’t have to STEP back out of the rack with the weight. You also have to step back IN after squatting.

Imagine not getting a lift when benching or any assistance in racking it when locked out.

In my opinion the lift is called the SQUAT for a reason. You squat down with the weight and come back up.

It’s not the “un rack the weight-and-take a step back-and-then SQUAT-and-when you’ve done this take a step forward and re-rack the weight”.[/quote]

Technically since you “squat” down and then stand up maybe we should just require the “squat” down part since the lift is called the “squat”

An discus throwers can stand inside a spinning machine that spins them around to the release point and then they can do the throwing part. Its not called the discus spin around and throw.

Seriously though, I can barely walk out with 550 and get into position, and I “held” 745 off a monolift for 10 seconds the first try. Your setup is perfect from the start. I don’t know how much that would effect my squat. though.

29

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
On another subject, for those who subscribe to MILO, how much does it cost you and when how many issues a year? I heard 3 a year.[/quote]

a little less than 30 dollars a year and you get 4 issues.

30

ah yes, capt… and who might i ask elected you to be the judge of what constitutes “intelligent-debate” and what is not worthy of being discussed?

31

well, i believ Rezza has one of the best squats among OL right about now, about a 700lb front squat, and close to 900lbs back squat, the best geared squat is aboot 1200lbs i think. so pl are still lifting more weight. also, you have to think that in PL, the squat IS the sport, whereas in OL, the squat is just a training tool for their sport.

32

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
derek wrote:
scan7 wrote:
people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it

Not unlike you NOT reading this thread anymore right?

It’s not such a smart notion to exclude non-competitors from the roundtable.

Try and apply that in other areas and you’ll soon see how silly it is.

Maybe I shouldn’t discuss how the Patriots will do with the new guys they got this season. I don’t play in the NFL. Better not put in my 2 cents.

the analogy doesnt hold. the competitors, not the spectators, financially support powerlifting. And that is NEVER going to change, just like tom said, the VAST majority of the public couldnt care less

[/quote]

not sure i agree with that rational, i don’t pay to see NFL football games, nor do i by any NFL products. but i catch a game on free TV every once in a while, or read about a game on ESPN.com, and catch highlights on sports center. so K, does that mean i am not allowed to talk football with my buddies?

what a load of bullshit. i know lots of guys who like me, may have competed in the past in some sort of strength sport, or just your typical gym junkie that likes to lift as heavy as he/she can, that follow the iron game, pl, ol, strongman, etc. but we don’t have a subscription to PLUSA, don’t pay to see PL meets, and don’t tithe 10% of our annual salary to Inzer, so all of us have to STFU?

I am sooooo sick of this attitude. who the hell are you or anybody else who happens to still actively compete to tell others what they can and cant talk about. sure, you can join into a discussion and take the “mightier than thou” attitude and claim your opinion is more relevant because you compete, but what irks me is many do not want a conversation about this stuff going on PERIOD.

33

[quote]scan7 wrote:

To me a small improvement of raw numbers by applying shows that the lifter doesn’t know how to train for a competition.
Doesn’t put in the work to master the gear, or simply doesn’t have a good competitive psyche.

Body type etc. can be a factor, but most of the time it is just excuses.

It is so weak to compete and blame the gear etc… Nobody has to compete in geared federations, go somewhaere else instead of staying only top bitch about it afterwards.

people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it[/quote]

The problem with this attitude is that geared lifts are being compared to non-geared lifts. You set a squat record 10 years ago or even 20 years ago, gear didn’t do much. I am not saying that the top level competitors wouldn’t have used it, but they didn’t have access to it. So you set a squat record of 800 that is raw or virtually raw and then somebody comes along in gear that is now allowed and does 850 and beats you, that is not fair. I understand the argument that technology gets better in all sports but when technology allows for a 10-20% improvement in the ability it is too involved. You can’t start running 85 Meters and comparing that to old 100 M times.

The great joy of lifting weights is that it is so objective. If you want to know where you stand ask other people or go do a competition and you find out exactly how strong you are or are not. But with gear that super easy comparable, I bench 300 and somebody else do 250 and somebody else does 350, no longer has the same meaning.

I guess the final point would be should it ever stop and what is that point? Let’s say in 10 years a bench shirt adds literally 500 lbs to your bench, so a 135 bencher can do 635. Should that shirt be allowed? And should that guy get to compete against people of today when a 600 lb bench is very rare, or a raw 600 lb bench is basically unheard with competition form.

34

i’m for the mono. i think it’s a lot safer for the athlete and the spotters. I will say the eliminate the low part of the squat is an interesting argument however…

i’m mostly against suits for a couple reasons. i think there are people that would be interested in competing if they didn’t have to shell out a bunch of cash on a suit and then learn to use it. i also think it discourages a lot of people that just don’t know how much they help and don’t think the could lift enough not to be enbarassed. i also think it hurts any chance for the sport to ever get any recognition.

but,what do i know…not much…

35

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

Oh, and why is it that you can watch any olympic training hall tape and see guys squatting onto thier calves with the same kind of weights PL’ers use with NO wraps, NO belt, NO real gear to speak of?

Just wondering.

well, i believ Rezza has one of the best squats among OL right about now, about a 700lb front squat, and close to 900lbs back squat, the best geared squat is aboot 1200lbs i think. so pl are still lifting more weight. also, you have to think that in PL, the squat IS the sport, whereas in OL, the squat is just a training tool for their sport.

[/quote]

Does Rezaza not squat 900 for 3 to 4 reps? That’s what i’ve heard and it sounds right compared to his front squat.

36

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
derek wrote:
scan7 wrote:
people who don’t compete i don’t care about, who cares what you think?
Just like changing channels whenever “the Swan” comes on, you can simply watch some other sport if you don’t care for it

Not unlike you NOT reading this thread anymore right?

It’s not such a smart notion to exclude non-competitors from the roundtable.

Try and apply that in other areas and you’ll soon see how silly it is.

Maybe I shouldn’t discuss how the Patriots will do with the new guys they got this season. I don’t play in the NFL. Better not put in my 2 cents.

the analogy doesnt hold. the competitors, not the spectators, financially support powerlifting. And that is NEVER going to change, just like tom said, the VAST majority of the public couldnt care less

not sure i agree with that rational, i don’t pay to see NFL football games, nor do i by any NFL products. but i catch a game on free TV every once in a while, or read about a game on ESPN.com, and catch highlights on sports center. so K, does that mean i am not allowed to talk football with my buddies?

what a load of bullshit. i know lots of guys who like me, may have competed in the past in some sort of strength sport, or just your typical gym junkie that likes to lift as heavy as he/she can, that follow the iron game, pl, ol, strongman, etc. but we don’t have a subscription to PLUSA, don’t pay to see PL meets, and don’t tithe 10% of our annual salary to Inzer, so all of us have to STFU?

I am sooooo sick of this attitude. who the hell are you or anybody else who happens to still actively compete to tell others what they can and cant talk about. sure, you can join into a discussion and take the “mightier than thou” attitude and claim your opinion is more relevant because you compete, but what irks me is many do not want a conversation about this stuff going on PERIOD. [/quote]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, mike. I probably could’ve been clearer: I am not saying that non-competitors should shut up. I am saying that PL does not compare to the NFL (for the reasons I stated in my post.)

I do differentiate between opinions posted by guys who’ve never used gear (who, imo, dont knwo what theyre talking about, but hey, everyones entiteld to an opinion) and guys, such as yourself, who have. But I wasnt the one who told everyone who doesnt compete to shut up, just the guy who pointed out the flaw with the analogy between PL and the NFL

Also, for the record, if you watch the nfl on tv, you ARE supporting the nfl financially - by watching their broadcasts, you justify the INSANE amount of $$$ the nfl gets from the networks, who in turn get it from their advertisers, who pay these princely sums for the right to hawk their products to the 10s of millions of people who watch football every weekend.

37

[quote]nptitim wrote:

The problem with this attitude is that geared lifts are being compared to non-geared lifts. [/quote]

to be honest - and this may seem to some to be splitting hairs - the problem is not with the attitude, the problem is with people who compare lifts. If everyone were to keep in mind the context of the lift, this wouldnt be a problem. For instance, i saw a guy bench 600, I’d say awesome, good job, Im sure it took a lot of work to get there. If I saw someone bench 600 raw, I’d be thinking this is one of the top bench pressers in the world. I dont think I’ve ever heard anyone say “well, reinhoudts squat was only 900” everyone understands that he did it raw.

[quote]
The great joy of lifting weights is that it is so objective. If you want to know where you stand ask other people or go do a competition and you find out exactly how strong you are or are not. But with gear that super easy comparable, I bench 300 and somebody else do 250 and somebody else does 350, no longer has the same meaning.[/quote]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this paragraph. If PL is objective, how do you not take into account limb length, predominant muscle fiber type, drug usage, nutrition … all of these things affect PL, O lifting, or for that matter, any sport. It is impractical to limit, or classify, or quantify the advantage that the above qualities grant, just as I feel it is impractical to do with gear.

38

OK, so my NFL analogy was not the best but I bet you all at least understood the point I was trying to make.

I have NOT used gear. My past training partners and one client do/does/has. So I do have some perspective here.

And now for a question. A simple-to-answer question…

Which is a more legitimate test of an individual’s God-given strength, RAW or GEARED?

Only one of two possible answers here please; raw or geared

Starting…NOW! Any takers?

I must add that I respect the HELL out of powerlifters. I trained with them for a few years and every one of those guys (and one girl) were great people, hard-working and strong as all get-out. I just don’t get why no one will admit that gear is not an acurate test of human strength.

I am kinda out there when it comes to lifting aids however. I thought it was questionable using Super 77 carpet adhesive to keep the fingers interlaced while tossing the caber!

T-shirt and shorts man, just like my poster of Arnold.

39

Hey Bro.

I am staying out of this one, but I did want to say to you that I think you may be kind of jaded from the time you spent at Diablo.

Which, quite honestly, I would be too.

The thing that keeps me positive on the sport is the great lifters whom I have around me that focus HARD on strength outside of gear, and are truly strong, then put it on and bang with the best of them.

I can assure you that if you came up here and trained in MN, some of your faith would be restored.

Bottom line, I respect you and your opinions, and wish you nothing but success in your future endeavors.

40

[quote]superscience wrote:
heavythrower wrote:

Oh, and why is it that you can watch any olympic training hall tape and see guys squatting onto thier calves with the same kind of weights PL’ers use with NO wraps, NO belt, NO real gear to speak of?

Just wondering.

well, i believe Rezza has one of the best squats among OL right about now, about a 700lb front squat, and close to 900lbs back squat, the best geared squat is aboot 1200lbs i think. so pl are still lifting more weight. also, you have to think that in PL, the squat IS the sport, whereas in OL, the squat is just a training tool for their sport.

Does Rezaza not squat 900 for 3 to 4 reps? That’s what i’ve heard and it sounds right compared to his front squat.
[/quote]

i am getting my info about rezza on an article done on him by MILO a couple of years back, the guy talked to his coach and watched him train for a week. he saw him “play” with some front squats with a little over600lbs, i think there is a vid of him doing that on the net somewhere. and he saw him squat over 800 for “easy and routine” reps after a heavy clean workout(over 500lbs). after which when talking to the coach, said he has front squatted 300kg for reps, and 370kg for reps in the back squat, but does not go that heavy that often as it is not needed for his purposes.

i figured based on those numbers he was good for around 700 for a single and 900 for a single on the front and back squat if he were to try to take a max single before cleaning or snatching.

if those numbers are right, i am going by memory, i don’t have that issue(MILO) in front of me at the moment.