Most Overrated in Music History...

Off Topic
121

[quote]nrt wrote:

I don’t really see what you & SteelyD are on about here. I’ll grant that Van Halen was original, just not in a musically interesting way. How exactly did he change things? Tapping has always seemed pretty uninteresting and cardboard to me; I can’t think of anyone other than Angus Young who’s done anything I pay attention to with it.
[/quote]

Angus Young? Really?

Face it, you really don’t have a grasp of ‘guitar lineage’ or music history. At minimum, if Angus Young is the first and only example of ‘tapping’ a la Van Halen, then you’ve got a pretty narrow breadth of (guitar) music or don’t know a lot of guitarists.

Haven’t even touched on EVH tone and downtuning and how he almost single handedly brought the ‘stomp box’ sub-market from death.

122

[quote]barbarianlifter wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
Pink Floyd
[/quote]

[quote]barbarianlifter wrote:
Pink Floyd
[/quote]

Does not compute…[/quote]

Long drawn out drug induced crap that basically sounds the same (except the wall), also Roger Waters is a douche.[/quote]

I want to punch you in the testicles.

123

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

even if it doesnt touch you personally…[/quote]

I’d rather you touch me, personally. We can listen to “When the Music’s Over” together.

Sound good?

124

Even Bob Dylan thinks Bob Dylan is overrated.

For much of his career, Dylan’s reluctance to explain himself or his actions seemed to be a strategy to heighten interest in his legend. Now, on the bus to South Bend, with a reporter allowed along for the ride, he sounds genuinely uninterested in his own notoriety. He wants no part of the confessional talk that fuels most celebrity interviews. Most of all, he has no patience with dissections of his famous past.

“Nostalgia,” he says sharply, “is death.”

As he gazes across the tour bus table, Dylan even smiles wickedly as the reporter suggests the hackneyed headlines that editors might have tacked on the birthday retrospectives that never appeared:

“Mr. Tambourine Man Turned 50!”

“Bringing It All Back Home.”

Or - and this suggestion draws a full-scale laugh - “Knockin’ on Heaven’s Door.”

There’s no hostility in his manner, but he fences instinctively, warding off certain questions. He listens to - and ignores - one after another until one catches his interest. He dismisses old-days inquiries as “ancient history” and counters a query about his personal life with, “Do people ask Paul Simon questions like that?” Like a lot of artists, he feels that his work expresses all that people need to know about him.

“It wasn’t me who called myself a legend,” he says sternly and suddenly in response to a question about his revered place in work. "It was thrown at me by editors in the media who wanted to play around with me or have something to tell their readers. But it stuck.

“It was important for me to come to the bottom of this legend thing, which has no reality at all. What’s important isn’t the legend, but the art, the work. A person has to do whatever they are called on to do. If you try to act a legend, it’s nothing but hype.”

But isn’t it flattering that critics and artists have pointed to him as rock’s most important songwriter? He just shakes his head.

“Not really,” he continues, more softly. “Genius? There’s a real line between genius and insanity. Anybody will tell you that.”

125

overrated…I guess that doesn’t mean not good does it? It just means too many idiots wont shut up about them right?

Stop listening to idiots then would be the solution to this problem and create your own well researched rating scale.

126

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

@DoubleDuce: I agree that Jim Morrison is easily one of the best rock front men ever. In fact I might even put him right below Mick Jagger. But I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the lyrics. I’ve always thought they were pretentious, and frankly, they sound cheesy too. [/quote]

He was very very very well read and like I said a lot of it comes from renown poetry. He even published poetry they still study in ivy league colleges.[/quote]

Really?

“Ride the snake
Ride the snake
To the lake
The snake he’s old
And his skin is cold”.

Profound!!! LOL

I HATED the Doors all my life until late last year. Now I love them. Though I do not agree that he was a great poet (hell, Elvis Costello, Paul Westerberg, Richard Butler were much more original), he was one of the top 3 frontmen ever, IMHO.
Such a strong presence/persona. He seemed transformed.
[/quote]

First you misquoted one of my favorite songs.
Second it needs to be in context.
Third, do you know what it means to ride the snake?

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I’ll never look into your eyes…again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need…of some…stranger’s hand
In a…desperate land
Lost in a Roman…wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There’s danger on the edge of town
Ride the King’s highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake…he’s old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we’ll do the rest
The blue bus is callin’ us
The blue bus is callin’ us
Driver, where you taken’ us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and…then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door…and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother…I want to…WAAAAAA
C’mon baby,--------- No “take a chance with us”
C’mon baby, take a chance with us
C’mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin’ a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin’ a blue rock
C’mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you’ll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end

Yes. Those are AWESOME LYRICS.

Unfortunately, you probably need to read some works by Heidegger or other existentialists to get the meaning of most of it.[/quote]

It’s: Mother? I want to FUCK YOU! All night baby, yeah!

127

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Nickleback anyone?[/quote]

They can’t be overrated if everyone thinks they suck. In fact, I’d say their level of gayness is underrated, if anything.

128

[quote]Eli B wrote:
overrated…I guess that doesn’t mean not good does it? It just means too many idiots wont shut up about them right?

Stop listening to idiots then would be the solution to this problem and create your own well researched rating scale.[/quote]

I was going to write something like this.

It’s all personal taste, and if you find a large group of people liking something that you don’t, then it’s “overrated” in your eyes, and yours only.

129

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Nickleback anyone?[/quote]

They can’t be overrated if everyone thinks they suck. In fact, I’d say their level of gayness is underrated, if anything.[/quote]

LMFAO!!

130

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
no depth is not open to subjective interpritation. there is a factual difference between deep and shallow thughts. morrisons lyrics are the freaking marianas trench of lyrics. he draws from an extensive knowege base in philosophy poetry ect to make complex statements that require study to glimps.

i really used to think like yall. but i started reading about morrison and the more i learned the more impressive his lyrics and commentary are.

ive been playfully bantering for the most part in my posts, but im serious, do some research on morrison. i swear it will open new doors to enjoying their music.

morrison was an amazing poet in his art.

and i never discounted the rest of the doors experience. i enjoy everything they bring to the table, but morrisons lyrics are some of the best in my opinion.

you should at least respect the effort and dedication he but into his art. he lived it day and night. read study write. he always carried around notebooks he would scribble down ideas and such. literally volumes and volumes of them since he was a kid. (he burned them all later)

even if it doesnt touch you personally, i figured youd have a little more repect for it than that.[/quote]

DD
Now you’re beating a dead horse. Or perhaps taking this too personally, hmm?

I never said I didn’t respect Morrison or his art. Where did I ever give that impression? All I’m saying (and I hope it’s the last time I reiterate this) is that I’m not viewing the Doors through the same lens as you. And you know what? That’s OKAY. We both like the Doors and Morrison.
I don’t take it as a dis if someone sees something in my own art that I didn’t intend when creating it. That’s fine. I hope I inspired or moved them in SOME way. The Doors move me in ways no other band does. Morrison represents to me a time and a lost generation where everything seemed wide open and possible. It’s not what he said, but how he said it. How he dished it out. And for an old “hippie” like me, Morrison stands above them all… aside from his poetic flair. Great things can be expressed with great depth, yet not be poetic necessarily. Ghandi is an example. And although I see and respect the art in what Morrison wrote, his words effect me no more deeply than any other poet worth his salt.
And that’s okay too.

Peace

[/quote]

For the record, I’m not taking it personally. I’m being mildly sarcastic and joking in my posts. I hope this doesn’t ruin any chance we have at bro-mance. Unless of course you refuse to admit the awesomeness and deptitude that are the lyrics of jim morrison. In that case you’re going on my ignore list.[/quote]

Nothing could come between our bromance. lol

In all seriousness, I promise to give a good listen to the Doors tomorrow while I work. And while I said I wasn’t into Jim as a great poet, I do admit that every time I’ve listened to the Doors, something new reveals itself… as it should when in the presence of great art.

131

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m still waiting on a retort for ID or LD on the lyrics. They literally spark deep philosophical debate. They are as deep as they come, my only friend.

[/quote]

c’mon bro[/quote]

No you c’mon. Those lyrics are as deep as they get. Dissing doors lyrics is fightin words.[/quote]

But bro…c’mon.

132

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

@DoubleDuce: I agree that Jim Morrison is easily one of the best rock front men ever. In fact I might even put him right below Mick Jagger. But I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the lyrics. I’ve always thought they were pretentious, and frankly, they sound cheesy too. [/quote]

He was very very very well read and like I said a lot of it comes from renown poetry. He even published poetry they still study in ivy league colleges.[/quote]

Really?

“Ride the snake
Ride the snake
To the lake
The snake he’s old
And his skin is cold”.

Profound!!! LOL

I HATED the Doors all my life until late last year. Now I love them. Though I do not agree that he was a great poet (hell, Elvis Costello, Paul Westerberg, Richard Butler were much more original), he was one of the top 3 frontmen ever, IMHO.
Such a strong presence/persona. He seemed transformed.
[/quote]

First you misquoted one of my favorite songs.
Second it needs to be in context.
Third, do you know what it means to ride the snake?

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I’ll never look into your eyes…again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need…of some…stranger’s hand
In a…desperate land
Lost in a Roman…wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There’s danger on the edge of town
Ride the King’s highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake…he’s old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we’ll do the rest
The blue bus is callin’ us
The blue bus is callin’ us
Driver, where you taken’ us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and…then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door…and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother…I want to…WAAAAAA
C’mon baby,--------- No “take a chance with us”
C’mon baby, take a chance with us
C’mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin’ a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin’ a blue rock
C’mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you’ll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end

Yes. Those are AWESOME LYRICS.

Unfortunately, you probably need to read some works by Heidegger or other existentialists to get the meaning of most of it.[/quote]

It’s: Mother? I want to FUCK YOU! All night baby, yeah![/quote]

I apparently copied and pasted the edited version.

133

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]Pootie Tang wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

  1. The backpack rap scene. [/quote]

You cut me deep LD, the back pack rap scene is where the real lyrics are. Mos Def, Common, Talib Kweli, Q - Tip. All came from the back pack rap scene. Dialated Peoples, Guru, & The Roots are from that scene as well. So be easy. Also the dude in your Avatar came directly from that scene and wore a backpack for like his first two albums.

[/quote]

You’re right about Kanye, but to be fair he did have a lot to him that was different from the rest of that scene. If not he wouldn’t be as polarizing as he is now–just look at the responses in the Kanye thread I started. A few of the guys who hated on him are the same guys who love backpack rap.

The backpack scene is definitely the best for lyrical rap, but there a lot of bland rappers to sift through before you get to the good ones. The best example would be a guy like Talib. I’m not the only one who says this, but for a guy that can craft good lyrics he REALLY cannot stay with the beat.

Just my opinion.[/quote]

Admittedly Talib can sometimes be a little too caught up in his lyrics to stay on beat. But the same can be said about Jay Z, Common, and Kanye. TRUE beat riders like Eminem and Nelly & Busta Rhymes are a really a rare breed. What I thank backpackers suffer from is lack of good producers. If they got the support and backing some of these mainstream dudes got we would have way more Lupe Fiascos on our hands. Which is a good thing. [/quote]

I don’t think Common and Kanye have the problem to the extent Talib does, and I’d probably put Jay as a natural beat rider. Eminem picks the right beats so that people don’t notice but I don’t think he’s as good at riding a beat as Busta, Jay, etc. Hid Despicable Freestyle was a good example–he likes to squeeze as many syllables in as he can and sometimes it hurts the way he sounds.

I don’t know if production is what holds back most backpack rappers. They always excel in things like wordplay, figurative language, punchines, and rhyme complexity, but they tend to do it at the expense of things mic presence, delivery, and sometimes, fresh song concepts. Talib Kweli has done albums with Hi-Tek, who has produced for 50 Cent. He also had an album with a few Kanye West beats. He just couldn’t carry them even if his bars were good. Common had Kanye giving him his best beats [some of the songs on Late Registration are leftover beats from Be] and while Be and Finding Forever did alright, he didn’t get as famous as one would imagine with Kanye’s best work.

On the other end of the spectrum are guys like Young Jeezy who only have mic presence and delivery. They get good beats and know what to do with them, but it’s hard for them to make meaningful music. If Jeezy stops getting good beats or his flow starts to suck, not only will he lose popularity, but even his core fans will leave since that’s his appeal.

Guys like Eminem, Kanye West, and Jay-Z are the rare guys who can do both. Most other rappers at least lean heavily in one direction.

134

[quote]musclegym wrote:
Go back and check who did a great deal of guitar work for santana…I believe a young Neil Schon. Santana is like bb king same lick pver and over. I like them both but fail to see what they did for guitar. [/quote]

Neil Schon, the dude from Journey? Fuck that Santana is the man bro. I know he always has that trademark lick but it’ so cool, the way he combines latino and jazz music.

Anyway I’m just making a point dismissing the idea Van halen was anywhere near great enough to be considered one of the most influential. I mean who the fuck did Van Halen inspire? Slash? Hooker, Diddly and co shaped guitar history much more than van halen.

135

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
no depth is not open to subjective interpritation. there is a factual difference between deep and shallow thughts. morrisons lyrics are the freaking marianas trench of lyrics. he draws from an extensive knowege base in philosophy poetry ect to make complex statements that require study to glimps.

i really used to think like yall. but i started reading about morrison and the more i learned the more impressive his lyrics and commentary are.

ive been playfully bantering for the most part in my posts, but im serious, do some research on morrison. i swear it will open new doors to enjoying their music.

morrison was an amazing poet in his art.

and i never discounted the rest of the doors experience. i enjoy everything they bring to the table, but morrisons lyrics are some of the best in my opinion.

you should at least respect the effort and dedication he but into his art. he lived it day and night. read study write. he always carried around notebooks he would scribble down ideas and such. literally volumes and volumes of them since he was a kid. (he burned them all later)

even if it doesnt touch you personally, i figured youd have a little more repect for it than that.[/quote]

DD
Now you’re beating a dead horse. Or perhaps taking this too personally, hmm?

I never said I didn’t respect Morrison or his art. Where did I ever give that impression? All I’m saying (and I hope it’s the last time I reiterate this) is that I’m not viewing the Doors through the same lens as you. And you know what? That’s OKAY. We both like the Doors and Morrison.
I don’t take it as a dis if someone sees something in my own art that I didn’t intend when creating it. That’s fine. I hope I inspired or moved them in SOME way. The Doors move me in ways no other band does. Morrison represents to me a time and a lost generation where everything seemed wide open and possible. It’s not what he said, but how he said it. How he dished it out. And for an old “hippie” like me, Morrison stands above them all… aside from his poetic flair. Great things can be expressed with great depth, yet not be poetic necessarily. Ghandi is an example. And although I see and respect the art in what Morrison wrote, his words effect me no more deeply than any other poet worth his salt.
And that’s okay too.

Peace

[/quote]

For the record, I’m not taking it personally. I’m being mildly sarcastic and joking in my posts. I hope this doesn’t ruin any chance we have at bro-mance. Unless of course you refuse to admit the awesomeness and deptitude that are the lyrics of jim morrison. In that case you’re going on my ignore list.[/quote]

Out of interest, any lyrics in particular you may be referring to? One of my favourites from Mr Mojo taken from When the Music’s over (one of the greatest tracks EVER!)-
‘Cancel my subscription to the ressurection, send my credentials to the house of detention’

136

[quote]nomorewar wrote:
whats your list? here’s mine…

  1. The beatles… these guys take the cake… some good music but mostly shitty garbage.
  2. prince… this guy has shitty fucking music… why do people love him?
  3. tupac…this guy is the most overrated rapper ever. Biggy would blow him away… slim shady would smoke him… he gets way to much credit… let me guess why… cause he fucking died thats why!!! well somebody had to say it… he is fucking overrated!! big time! he also sampled so many fucking songs its not even funny.

thats all i can think of right now… whats your list?[/quote]

  1. Not a huge fan. John Lennon was a hypocritical, lefty type guy with his do-good stuff and the image continues to this day.
  2. The Prince was original at least. Not a huge fan.
  3. Is just another black thug who raped white women and now bouncing on satan’s member.

But for me the biggest must be Bob Dylan. No voice or heart.

137

“Indians scattered,
On dawn’s highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young childâ??s,
Fragile eggshell mind”

This is about a car accedent he saw as a kid that apparently stuck with him his whole life. It was apparently pretty horrific and he got a good look at some mangled dead native americans. He later claimed that somehow the spirit(s) of the indians imprinted on him. That’s kind of how I think of him now. Sort of this mystic indian shamen poet of rock. I don’t know if that is my favorite lyric, but it is what I always associate with him.

138

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
“Indians scattered,
On dawn’s highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young childâ??s,
Fragile eggshell mind”

This is about a car accedent he saw as a kid that apparently stuck with him his whole life. It was apparently pretty horrific and he got a good look at some mangled dead native americans. He later claimed that somehow the spirit(s) of the indians imprinted on him. That’s kind of how I think of him now. Sort of this mystic indian shamen poet of rock. I don’t know if that is my favorite lyric, but it is what I always associate with him.[/quote]

Yeah and he let it out on stage judging by his dancing, by the way ‘Live at the Hollywood Bowl’ is great if you havn’t seen and ‘The Doors’ movie with Val Kilmer is very good, I gotta see that again.

To people listing Bob Dylan, yeah he’s hardly a great vocalist and uses minimal musicality on his original stuff but all the covers of his songs prove he is one of the greatest writers of all time and under-rated if anythin IMO.

All along the watch tower - Hendrix
Knockin on heavens door - GnR’s
Mr Tambourine man - The Byrds
A hard rains gonna fall - Roxy music

A few that spring to mind.

139

[quote]domsGOOD wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
“Indians scattered,
On dawn’s highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young child�¢??s,
Fragile eggshell mind”

This is about a car accedent he saw as a kid that apparently stuck with him his whole life. It was apparently pretty horrific and he got a good look at some mangled dead native americans. He later claimed that somehow the spirit(s) of the indians imprinted on him. That’s kind of how I think of him now. Sort of this mystic indian shamen poet of rock. I don’t know if that is my favorite lyric, but it is what I always associate with him.[/quote]

Yeah and he let it out on stage judging by his dancing, by the way ‘Live at the Hollywood Bowl’ is great if you havn’t seen and ‘The Doors’ movie with Val Kilmer is very good, I gotta see that again.

To people listing Bob Dylan, yeah he’s hardly a great vocalist and uses minimal musicality on his original stuff but all the covers of his songs prove he is one of the greatest writers of all time and under-rated if anythin IMO.

All along the watch tower - Hendrix
Knockin on heavens door - GnR’s
Mr Tambourine man - The Byrds
A hard rains gonna fall - Roxy music

A few that spring to mind.
[/quote]

I’d say all the cover versions indicate that there were a lot of way better musicians who heard Dylan’s music and said “hey, that song’s alright, but I can play it way better. Here’s how it SHOULD sound.” Bob Dylan is way overrated and the only reason most people even think of him as a “great” is because Rolling Stone has an article in every other issue extolling the virtues of a music collection with tons of Dylan in it.

140

[/quote]

Unfortunately, you probably need to read some works by Heidegger or other existentialists to get the meaning of most of it.[/quote]

The problem with this analysis is that not even Heidegger understands Heidegger.