More Women in Power?

[Silyak]

@zecarlo

@Silyak

The young support the old and that is unavoidable

The reverse is also true. Maybe in America today we judge a person’s value to society relative to their consumer habits, but that hasn’t always been the case.

Agree completely. My post was not meant to be an ethical or moral assessment. Neither is it an attempt to measure what people are owed, entitled to or have earned. Obviously most of the elderly have contributed a great deal to society and many continue to do so even after they have retired from work with direct financial compensation. While systems around the world vary, a combination of personal savings and investments, corporate pensions, government pensions or pension systems, and family support structures have captured this idea and generally give the elderly access to the goods and services they need (or attempt to give access, as some systems do fail).

While various systems incorporate a concept of accrued credit (either through a literal savings and investment mechanism or through a sense of social credit) to create a sense that the elderly have earned their upkeep in retirement, the fact remains that the vast majority of goods and services that we consume are not easily transferrable over time and space. That is, the retired are not literally using the goods and services they created while they were working. They created excess goods and services when they were employed with the expectation that others would create excess later when they were retired and that a system would give them access to those goods.

That is all well and good. The problem is, when the retired begin to be a much larger percentage of the population, there are fewer people to produce the goods and services that everyone is using. The result will be some sort of allocation that rations access to goods and services. In a more centralized government controlled retirement system that might take the form of cuts in retirement benefits or increases in taxes on those that are working. In a more distributed savings and investment oriented system, that can take the form of price inflation for goods and services or investments losing value. In any case, those are just mechanisms for adjusting to the fact that the supply is failing to keep up with demand.

Again, I see how this can be interpreted as a moral judgment on what people are owed. I don’t intend it to be. It doesn’t matter what people are owed if there isn’t enough water in the well.

[BrickHead]

Right. I think we should consider he said this in the fourth century.

[treco]

@Californiagrown

My wife, i would never expect, and would never be, obedient

A married Incel eh?

[zecarlo]

@JKil116

I’ll look it over, however, this was written in 2008 based on a study of the period between 1972-2006.

And neglects the previous 10,000 years.

[zecarlo]

@EmilyQ

In a nutshell, I believe you’ve outlined a good marriage, not marriage in general.

The quote from St. John does not tell the whole story when it comes to marriage. He still believed the husband was the head of the household.

[cyclonengineer]

Obedient here is misused but even in your analogy the WR follows the instructions of the QB (assuming the QB is calling the plays). The WR has some leeway in what he is going to do but a good teammate knows where his QB expects him to be. Therefore, the WR is “obedient” to the QB, in a manner of speaking.

I believe the point of the quote is more that each person in the marriage should have a “servant’s heart” (to paraphrase Jesus) where they see the other person’s needs and will put them before theirs.

[dt79]

@BrickHead

Here’s one:

“The obedient wife does not wait for orders. Rather, she tries to discern her husband’s needs and feelings, and responds in love. When she sees her husband is weary, she encourages him to rest; when she sees him agitated, she soothes him; when he is ill, she nurses and comforts him; when he is happy and elated, she shares his joy. Yet such obedience should not be confined to the wife; the husband should be obedient in the same way. When she is weary, he should relieve her of her work; when she is sad, he should cherish her, holding her gently in his arms; when she is filled with good cheer, he should also share her good cheer. Thus a good marriage is not a matter of one partner obeying the other, but of both partners obeying each other.“

I see no problem with people who want such a dynamic in their marriages. My stance has always been individuals should make their own choices and have such choices available to them. There are so many options available to explore. Seriously, I have a relative who went to a marriage agency to choose a Vietnamese bride. Over 10 years later and they’re still happy as fuck lol. I’m not making this up.

The problem with the scenario you quoted is that humans are generally assholes and women would be getting the short end of the stick if the male, who would normally be the sole breadwinner in this case, turns out to be a big asshole. In a society that frowns on divorce and/or children are involved, it’s a lot worse for the woman.

Now, I understand that your stance, as are the stances of others around here is that, simply put, there has been lots of propaganda against the traditional family unit that’s worsened over the recent decades.

I’m of the opinion that this started because of the aforementioned problems, not the other way around. And some people, like there are in every single major movement, are just using this as an opportunity for personal enrichment.

I have several reasons for my thought process but I’ll give you an extreme one:

Almost every club girl I’ve known (and you probably know I’ve met a lot of them lol) was married. Their husbands were normally worthless but they couldn’t get divorced because of the kind of society they lived in. These girls would be perfectly happy with the scenario you quoted but it takes 2 parties to make it work.

Like that Harley Quinn fantasy in the first Suicide Squad. I should have hated that movie but that scene really resonated with me because I was surprised that in all the crap I was being subjected to, there was a hint that the director and writer understood the human condition.

Release the fucking Ayer Cut already. The man made Fury FFS.

@pat

If you actually read what I wrote, you’d probably not disagree with as much as you think. I know how it goes, a lot of people just gloss over a post. But potentially explosive topics, I tend to take my time a word as carefully as I can.

Actually, the more I disagree with something, the more I read into it to look at things like context and intent.

[dt79]

@BrickHead

One in three young men can’t even get a woman—meaning they’re incels—let alone marry.

Nearly 1 in 3 young men in the US report having no sex, study finds: IU News

I wouldn’t use the term INCELS since it’s evolved into a silly movement.

However, I do think it’s a problem at face value. But it’s a problem people living in a society will have to figure out how to deal with themselves. And we do generally self-regulate in the long term so this might not even turn out to be something worth worrying about 20 years later when we have the benefit of hindsight. There’s not much we can do other than educate our kids in the way we deem appropriate and tell the government to stay the fuck out of all of this.

[treco]

For a zillion generations, nature has worked this out by ‘birds of a feather’ analogy.
Lesser status men find lesser status women -
Boom, problem solved.

These men are barely men.
And they were likely raised to be mama’s boys because of absentee sperm donors.

[dt79]

I wouldn’t go that far unless we’re talking about those stupid INCEL-like movements. Fuck them. I think these movement could, in fact, be the reason why lots of their members can’t get laid when they probably would eventually meet someone in the future. How in the fuck are you going to get laid if you rely on the advice of other people who can’t get laid lmao??? It’s like a fucking 150lb noob telling me how to get big and strong.

[BrickHead]

The class and looks matching used to work. It does not work and will not work for Generation Z and onward for a variety of reasons, despite only three people on T-mag expressing their understanding of the situation. I’m borderline Gen X-millenials and I notice related trends long ago.

It seems as it theres a belief that authors, even Phd’s, and some posters who have written on the matter are making things up out of nowhere.

[dt79]

I remain optimistic that this will all self-correct. We’ve done lots of stupid to horrendous things on a societal level throughout history, most of them causing much more severe outcomes than this, and today we’re (arguably) doing better than before.

[dt79]

I have no idea what Natural Law is lol. (Not sarcasm. I honestly don’t know). But I don’t think it matters if we look at things from the MUCH bigger picture. Shit happens in waves anyway. Curtailing freedoms and hedonistic desires may happen, society will push back, which will may lead to even more hedonism and the like, then the same pattern will repeat itself.

EDIT:

My optimism today is due to my view that we’re not likely to see as extreme shit and horrific consequences as we did in the past. I don’t think there won’t be ups and downs during my life time. COVID was/is pretty shitty. But vaccines were produced in MONTHS. Seriously, let that shit sink in lol.

[jshaving]

@pat

men have to…be good looking and over six feet tall to even be considered being datable, muchless marriable.

This screams “I’m not six feet tall” to me, haha. I’m not either - 5’ 11.5” though!

I’m sitting here imagining all of the “normal” couples I can think of. Normal, as in not super rich, don’t have model-like good looks, etc. I can think of literally 20 couples that I know, just off the top of my head, where the woman is with a man who is not rich, not a 6’ 2” bodybuilder, etc. They’re have normal jobs (farmer, college professor, work at a bank, construction worker, etc.), have average looking faces and bodies, but are happily married.

Several of the guys I went to my (Christian) high school with who were not extremely handsome and who never had much success with girls are married now. We’re all in our early 20s, and they’re all with “good” girls (I almost always think the girl is better looking than the guy) and are both genuinely happy. Maybe all it took was being a good guy?!

I can’t take any complaints about women these days seriously. Some women suuuck. So do some men. Get the hell over it. I am 100% convinced that deep down most people are just looking for someone to treat them well and love them, and I see countless examples every day of successful relationships built on a basis of that idea, not good looks or wallet size. Anyone who thinks this stuff requires experts, studies, research, YouTube videos, forum discussions, or blame of entire groups of people based on age, gender, etc. has bigger problems than all these “whores on the dick carousel” or whatever.

[pat]

The dirty little secret, is that most guys are undesirable, like the majority. Studies from cupid.com and tests ranking facial attraction show that 80% of women like only 10% of the men. Men also have to work to become attractive to get a mate. That’s good and bad news. Good, in that you can improve your situation, bad that if you don’t you’re screwed.
The fact of the matter, men have to be competent, bring resources and provision in addition to immutable physical attributes, to be considered attractive to women. Women just have to be cute.
But there is a flip side. Life satisfaction over laps around the age of 35. Where men and women rank equally, then after 35 it craters for women, while men tend to track higher and higher. Especially independent women over 35 who have never been married have an incredibly low probability of finding a mate.
People confuse sex with mate selection. Yes, most women can have all the sex they want. But men decide relationships. And men aren’t buying the cow. And the more sexual partners women have the less chance they have of getting married or permanently pair-bonded.

Another stat I learned lately. Do you know how much ‘pussy’ costs on average? $40 bucks. The average sexual interaction is worth $40 when you monetize it. So if you got a spare $40 and you are looking for some action, get on tinder and hustle. Get a pizza and fuck someone you don’t know.

[mnben87]

@pat

The dirty little secret, is that most guys are undesirable, like the majority. Studies from cupid.com and tests ranking facial attraction show that 80% of women like only 10% of the men.

That makes sense if using online dating stuff like tinder. There are probably 3X as many men. If you had tons of options, wouldn’t average start to look a bit worse that average?

@pat

The fact of the matter, men have to be competent, bring resources and provision in addition to immutable physical attributes, to be considered attractive to women.

Depends on what you / they are going for.

@pat

Another stat I learned lately. Do you know how much ‘pussy’ costs on average? $40 bucks. The average sexual interaction is worth $40 when you monetize it. So if you got a spare $40 and you are looking for some action, get on tinder and hustle. Get a pizza and fuck someone you don’t know.

Kinda a weird take. Attraction counts for a lot more than spending $40 does. It isn’t like you are bribing them with pizza. You are being nice lol, which helps if the chick already is attracted to you. If not, I doubt it will work out.

[pat]

Anecdotal experience does not negate the facts. Clearly you live in place that prioritizes traditions and marriage. That is not everywhere. For every place like yours, there is place that is polar opposite.
My introduction to this info actually came from studying the issues of the black community. I became very curious about the black community and went to studying on it. Whatever I am talking about is exaggerated 10 fold (an exaggeration in itself) in the black community. It’s in real crisis. The black family is evaporating. Less than 1 in 4 black women can ever expect to be married in their lifetime. 80% of black women are overweight and 80% of that 80% are obese. 80% of children are born out of wedlock. It is a culture in crisis. But I know if I single them out, the hell I would get from pointing out merely the stats. And broadly speaking its not just them, they may be the tip of the spear, but outside of select, particularly Asian cultures, the whole spear is plunging at alarming rates.
My interest is in the preservation and promotion of the family unit and while the black community is in crisis, white culture in particular is nipping closely at their heels in terms of the destruction of the family. This averages out to a downward trend for western family and tradition. And that should be worrying to all, if you care at all about preserving family.

[pat]

@mnben87

Depends on what you / they are going for.

Not in the aggregate. Spend some time with the 2020 census data. You have to work it to isolate for particular variables, like breaking down marriage rates by age, race, region, etc.

@mnben87

Kinda a weird take. Attraction counts for a lot more than spending $40 does. It isn’t like you are bribing them with pizza. You are being nice lol, which helps if the chick already is attracted to you. If not, I doubt it will work out.

Again, not in the aggregate. This is the average cost per sexual interaction. Which means some are cheaper and some are more and no I don’t know what the standard deviation is. I am still learning about this stuff and yes, I should have made a bibliography, but I didn’t because I was looking at it casually. But all this shit is available for anybody to look up.

[mnben87]

@pat

Not in the aggregate. Spend some time with the 2020 census data. You have to work it to isolate for particular variables, like breaking down marriage rates by age, race, region, etc.

What I am saying is that if you are looking for sex as a man (what I think we are talking about), that money, and competence don’t matter much. It is about looking good, and not being a douche. LTR or marriage is a different story. It is surprising to some guys that women do care about looks, and more than most think. They also have options. If just hooking up, why care about money or competence in a average / below average looking guy, when they could get an attractive guy. The money / competence doesn’t matter much in a hook up context.

[pat]

Thanks for the recommendation. What Rollo did was collate tons of data. His book is worth that alone.
Yeah, the red pill ‘dating coaches’, well they have some good points, but I tend to think their meta-analysis is off and tend to be jokes. And anybody who pays them deserves to lose their money…
[Edit]…
Well, that may be a bit harsh. We tend to minimize the awful price of isolation and loneliness. Mock it and deride it and those who suffer, but in reality it’s no laughing matter. A lot of people are in tremendous pain, exacerbated by idiotic, despotic government edicts forcing to isolate the lonely even more. And in many locals, where lockdowns are harshest, suicides are way, way up. In many places killing more than covid ever would have. And nobody is paying attention. It’s not a politically expedient narrative.