It’s hard to get that going young when women are encouraged to rack up one credential and accolade after another and then marry jobs. Like some modern-day Christians who urge their daughters to do this and remain virgins until marriage (remain virgins until 30), a silly expectation.
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Who benefits by this? Statistically speaking, later marriages (late 20’s, early 30’s) are much likelier to last, as I believe I just pasted in above.
This behavior also correlates with lower divorce rates. So here again, who benefits?
However, there’s the information in this article, which I find interesting for all sorts of reasons. What explains the higher earnings of married men? I’m surprised that single and married women track so closely…anyone else? (I’ve left out the beginning of the article, as it just sums up stuff we already know and can agree upon, namely the difference between male and female earnings.)
Guillaume Vandenbroucke, “Married Men Sit Atop the Wage Ladder,” Economic Synopses , No. 24, 2018. Economic Synopses, Married Men Sit Atop the Wage Ladder, 2018, No. 24 | FRASER | St. Louis Fed
Data show that the average male worker earns a higher wage than the average female worker. Figure 1 illustrates this: It plots the wage and salary income of men and women, by age. The sample represented here includes all men and women employed in 2016 with at least a high school diploma.
A few details are worth pointing out with this figure. First, wages tend to increase with age—at least up until age 50. This is presumably because people accumulate human capital as they work and, therefore, become more productive. Second, for both men and women, there is a tendency for wages to decrease in the latter years of their working lives—that is, after age 50. This is probably because, by then, workers devote less effort to accumulating new human capital. Finally, the salary difference between men and women is noticeably less pronounced earlier in life rather than later in life.
It is tempting to ascribe this latter point to the fact that younger women are more likely to get married, have children, and eventually withdraw from the labor force. Once out of the labor force, these women would not accumulate human capital, and, subsequently, they would lose ground relative to men. This would explain why the difference in wages grows with age.
Figure 2 offers a decomposition of the data in Figure 1 that questions this theory. It plots the wage and salary income of workers with at least a high school diploma by age, gender, and marital status. Figure 2 presents many striking features. First, there are almost no gender differences in wages among single (that is, never-married) workers: Whether they are men or women, single workers earn very similar wages. Second, married and single women also earn similar wages. This is surprising since married women may be more likely to have children than single women. Thus, this second point is not consistent with the view that the gender wage gap results from women having children earlier in life and losing ground in human capital accumulation relative to men. Finally, married men earn wages that dominate those of the other three categories; that is, married men earn higher wages than single or married women, and married men earn higher wages than single men.
The data in Figure 2 do not imply that being married increases a man’s wage. It might be that men with higher wages are more likely to marry; therefore, the average married man earns a higher wage than the average single man.
Men often marry later than women, so there are relatively few married men in their 20s. This explains why, in Figure 1, the difference in wages is less pronounced earlier in life: The average male worker in his 20s is more likely single than married.
The gender wage gap remains a complicated topic. But progress may come from asking different questions: not just why women earn less than men (although not compared with single men), but also why married men earn so much more than everyone else.
© 2018, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. The views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect official positions of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis or the Federal Reserve System.
@pat
I also wonder what it means for men to “up their game.”
Men who “upped their game” greatly but whose wives left them:
Brad Pitt
Johnny Depp
Tom Cruise
Ben Affleck
Elon Musk
Jeff Bezos
Perhaps I’m being irresponsible by listing them because they might have been at fault, but I don’t recall any faults stated in the gossipy snitch media.
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I don’t think there’s much for us to apply by looking at celebrities and billionaires. Those are extreme outliers and who knows what kind of dynamics take place there. I think she was implying that the 50s sitcom version of what it means to be the man of the house is obsolete.
You’re referring to men of power, high social status. Men who can get whatever they want, whenever they want with a snap of their fingers. This isn’t an apt representation of courtship outcome mediated by “upping your game”
“Upping your game” pertains to self improvement. Cleanliness, grooming, physique modification, dressing well. In this context, such endeavours may help you net a more attractive partner.
If we refer to “upping your game” as climbing up the corporate ladder, netting materialistic possessions and the likes… Then there probably is a linear correlation correlation with infidelity.
“Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac”.
Henry Kissinger
Affleck was an alcoholic, I believe, and Depp may also have had substance abuse issues.
But regardless, these are not the men this thread seems primarily concerned with, are they?
Women have had to up their “provide and protect” games because men did not have any particular stake in being agreeable or honest, since their women were helpless to take care of themselves. “Upping their game” for men would be to do the same, but from the other end. Women have been expected to be well-groomed and agreeable, and to wish to take care of home and family. Men are now expected to increase their investment in these arenas.
I use myself as an example because I willingly followed your life map - married at 23, first child at 25 and fourth child before my 30th birthday. I was the stay-at-home mom of a herd of bright, friendly children, and happily so until I couldn’t pretend any longer that I was married to a man of integrity. It is TERRIBLE to be trapped in this way. Do you think I should have stayed? If I’d asked you at the time, “what should I do?” what would your answer have been?
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I did see your data, but this is relatively a recent development, no?
Maybe starting in the 60s, as the majority of women have been ‘programmed’ for an outside career, rather than becoming housewives.
BTW l admire your personal story of rising above your earlier life.
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Children, mostly. Children are healthiest when born to young mothers.
I suspect that you’re looking at it backwards. It’s not that married men make more money but that men who make more money (or have the potential to make more money in the future) are more likely to get married. Or even, to an extent, the qualities that make a man more likely to get married also make a man more likely to make more money.
A few more specific hypotheses, all of which likely have some amount of truth.
- Men with high incomes are likely more attractive to women as marriage partners because many women look for husbands that will provide for them and their future children.
- The qualities that make a man economically successful such as intelligence, social skills, perseverance, emotional stability, ambition, etc. are attractive to women.
- Men who desire to get married are more motivated to make a higher income because they believe it will affect their ability to attract the women they want to get married to.
- The qualities that make a man economically successful make him more likely to want to get married (I could be convinced that this is not true, but it might be).
I also believe that men generally do not adjust their expectations far enough to account for their own attractiveness. So a man who is a 10 has lots of women that want to date him and he is willing to date lots of them because he probably considers anything above a 7 or 8 attractive enough to be considered. A man who is a 7 adjusts his standards somewhat down to maybe as low as a 6 and still has lots of options among 6 and 7 women who want to date him. A man who is a 5 will probably find a 5 woman and they both consider each other attractive. A man who is a 3 is perhaps not willing to date a 3 as she is simply not attractive enough. And thus a high earning man, who is generally in the upper half of the attractiveness scale, is much more likely to find a woman he wants to marry that also wants to marry him.
Of course, Live Report - SNL - YouTube sometimes happens.
What’s the name of thy trusty steed ?
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Even mediocre slobs can now thanks to the meteoric rise of the nu male and low T simp
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Given that divorce is a very possible outcome, men should be happy that their wives are capable of taking care of themselves rather than have to support an ex for the rest of her life.
What you have is a bunch of soft crybabies who are upset that they need to have something going for themselves in order to attract someone. Because they are babies, they think they need status or money, as women are attracted to shiny things or whatever. What they really need is confidence and personality instead of reeking of insecurity and a strange combination of a sense of entitlement and a sense of self loathing.
Oh those poor lonely men who will never have a mate. It’s all the fault of women and society. They sound like socialists crying about the unfairness of capitalism. Maybe a certain percentage of men are destined to be weirdos with no social skills and that’s just the way it is. No man is guaranteed a woman, let alone happiness, in this world.
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How do account for the high number of women having children out of wedlock? Also, poor people tend to outbreed more affluent people so women are not necessarily thinking about the man’s ability to provide. I also think men who want to make lots of money are not trying to impress women as much as they are trying to impress other men. A man wanting to earn more because he wants to get married one day is probably thinking about his future kids more than attracting a wife.
How young are we talking?
Statistically speaking, lowest maternal mortality rates, optimal outcomes for babies etc eventuate when the mother is in her late 20’s-early 30’s
I can link academic literature to back my conclusion if you’d like. Young people… particularly late teens… shouldn’t be giving birth.
as to people getting married young, having kids young… that worked back in the day wherein societal constructs differed. Life expectancy was far lower, a degree wasn’t prioritised… You could go to school, graduate, take up a trade/factory job that could string you along.
Nowadays, that isn’t going to get you a house, enough income to support a family… perhaps not even enough to pay rent and feed yourself + a partner WITHOUT a child. Obviously this differs from country to country, within various non western societies the paradigm I’ve outlined may still be enough for a man to support a family, albeit within living conditions that are substandard.
Having a kid, getting married + going to college for 3-6+ years or more and subsequently drowning in debt while struggling to support a child isn’t a realistic ideal less you have a REALLY supportive family. But the world isn’t some idealistic utopia, few have families supportive enough to fulfil the role of a surrogate parent for prolonged periods of time, few families are supportive enough, let alone financially stable enough to pay your rent.
I’m paying for my own college, as do most Australians… Could my parents afford to pay for it? Certainly… will they? Not a chance in hell…
Throw a baby in there + the need to support a partner + leaving the country for the foreseeable future and it’d be a disaster.
Why do you think this considering generally speaking women are most attractive in their late teens to early twenties and are at child bearing age? Why would nature make it like that?
My grandmother had my mom at eighteen, which was not uncommon. None of her children were malnourished, stunted, or neglected. I’ve asked this before, what about being a late teenager makes a woman incapable of simple tasks (feeding, playing, pushing a stroller, changing diapers, clothing) and loving a baby? I cannot think of one. Can you?
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To whom? And what does older mean? If you’re 60 and you say you find 18 year old women the most attractive, you failed to grow up.
I will respond tomorrow in detail. The epidemiological spread is indicative giving birth below the age of 20 is riskier relative to waiting… ditto for above the age of 30.
Nothing makes the woman incapable, rather the risk of the child dying, the mother dying is still elevated relative to waiting a few more years
One also needs to take into account prefrontal cortex development doesn’t finish until an individual is in their early 20’s at the earliest. The figure is generally “25”, but there is wiggle room on a case by case basis. Prefrontal cortex modulates our response to dopaminergic stimuli; moderates attention span, impulse control, cognitive faculties/executive functions.
Have you ever wondered why kids can be so cruel? Why they tend to lack empathy, particularly relating to the ability to put themselves within the shoes of another… blame neurodevelopmental status… and hormones.
Past fertile age… menopausal or postmenopausal.
For men… also when fertility starts to decline…
I’ve wondered that about adults.
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SOME people are assholes.
As gastly as it sounds to us, back in the old days what we call kids were considered adults. Not that I am advocating for old greasy men to marry young teenage girls, but there was a time not long ago, 13 was adult.