Oh…my…god. Smoked steak tips are amazing. I ate them cold, because microwaved steak is a crime, and it was just absolutely delicious. One of the best things about this way of eating is I’m eating food I ENJOY at every meal. Dr. Chaffe talks about how it’s like every day is your birthday, and I totally get it. I’m so excited about every meal. There’s no shortage of amazing meat out there.
On that discussion, I listened to a podcast with Dr. Chaffe and Dr. Kevin Stock, and they brought up something that was a bit eye opening. They talked about fat loss, and brought up that we have visceral fat and we have subcutaneous fat, which I am familiar with, but they brought up a third: intramuscular fat. Also known as “marbling” when discussing a steak. I feel like it’s been the shedding of THIS that explains my current bodyweight. I had posted these photos of me at 177lbs in 2020 before
At the time, it was the leanest I had ever been, and the lightest I had been since high school, and I thought for sure it was the lowest I’d ever get my bodyweight. Now, I’m walking around 10lbs less than THAT. I’m sure some of that is water and muscle, but given @SkyzykS observation that I have “ribcage veins” and just the absurd level of peeled I can observe in myself, I gotta figure that this way of eating has ALSO had me drop some intramuscular fat. I’ve moved from ribeye to sirloin.
I was a bit amused that it was “eye opening” given I’d mentioned intramuscular fat/marbling recently, albeit in a somewhat different context.
But back on that topic, while I don’t disagree with your statement that “it takes weight to move weight”, I do think that there is likely a relation between intramuscular fat and strength. I wonder if that may underlie some of your own observations during your diet changes.
(I read about it in… I dunno… Key to Might and Muscle maybe? I’ll have to dig up the quote)
Edit: Found it.
There is one thing I do find missing about the man with the lean muscles is the entire absence of any interstitial fat. This condition of flesh is very necessary in fertilizing the muscles. In fact, it is an ingredient of exceptional value. The work interstitial means “in between the tissues,” and between the fibrous tissues of the muscles this fat secretes itself. The stronger the man, the greater quantity of interstitial fat will he have. This it is which gives his muscles that smooth, silky appearance so often seen, but not so generally understood. Therefore, the greyhound type has to find a method that will create this natural fertilizer.
I guess it comes back to both parts of this, and me trying to make sense of it.
But I’ll start with: I accept it works, even if I don’t understand why. I’m just trying to understand why.
So to talk about powerlifting totals first. From a physics standpoint, there is a simple explanation for why bench and squat would go up with bodyweight. Both fat and muscle are compressible. As you squat down, the tissue around the knees/elbow/armpit loads up like a spring, and assists the reversing of the weight. This is different from “bounce/stretch reflex”. It’s like having an end-range band assist.
Additionally, for bench especially, extra tissue can shorten the range of motion. You add 1" to your chest girth, that’s 1" less the bar has to travel.
Deadlift doesn’t really have either of those. I mean, maybe a little bit you can work with around extra fat in the stomach/groin in the extreme cases, but not much.
My basic hypothesis is this: if there are two people with equal amounts of muscle and equal ability to recruit that muscle, but one has 10% bodyfat and the other 20%, they should be able to deadlift the same amount.
And if they can’t, why not?
A deadlift isn’t really like a crane or a lever, where you can use a counterweight to lift the bar. It’s a nifty idea, but there’s no way to move the weight to the other side of the pivot made by your hips.
So if the deadlift gets easier with more bodyweight, but it’s not because of more muscle, better use of that muscle, shorter range of motion, compression, or being able to provide a counterweight, then what is it?
Which is where “intramuscular fat” seems like it might be the missing ingredient. As I said before, I can’t quite work out the mechanism, but maybe it has something to do with the existing muscle fibers having a larger surface area to pull against, inside the muscle. That any given muscle fiber can contract against a more solid, stable mass, than a muscle with less fat.
If that’s the case, then it seems like a muscle with a better distribution of fat… e.g., the marbling of Wagyu or Prime versus the clumpy distribution of Choice or Select… would probably allow for more strength.
And where this ties back to the diet concerns the idea of “I’m not as strong at this weight” when combined with very limited loss of muscle mass. Especially for the deadlift.
I guess the other explanation is there’s a greater loss of muscle mass, but even then it still doesn’t seem to quite add up.
But to reiterate: I accept it works, and I also could be missing something super obvious.
A bit tangential, but, if there is something significant to the presence and distribution of intramuscular fat, that does open up a lot of interesting questions around training and diet, especially how to maximize that.
I don’t know why that was so cryptically roundabout. Going to chalk it up to being sick.
Here’s another take at the point I’m trying to get at:
I think you have absolutely demonstrated that food choices can significantly alter body composition, independent of calorie intake: that periods of living off of pure protein have turned your body into pure protein
I think that you’ve lost very little muscle mass while losing bodyweight
I think that you have continued to get better at using that muscle, even as you’ve lost bodyweight (which is exactly what Easy Strength is getting at, really)
I think that “it’s been the shedding of THIS [intramuscular fat] that explains my current bodyweight” is probably a true statement
And I hypothesize that it’s this loss of intramuscular fat that explains this:
I think there may be something to this intramuscular fat → strength thing.
@LoRez I appreciate you taking the time to lay all that out there, and to even come back and summarize. I don’t wish to be flippant when I say that I feel like you’ve got a solution that is looking for a problem here. I believe the intramuscular fat loss I’ve experienced to be the FINAL place I lost fat, but my numbers have declined before that.
I feel there’s a need to appreciate context and nuance when looking at numbers. Right now, we’re in an “apples and oranges” situation. Trying to compare my DOH axle deadlift numbers to previous deadlift efforts just doesn’t work here for a variety of factos.
1: This is EASY strength. It’s SUPPOSED to be light. That’s the point. Dan John used the DOH thick bar deadlift with a best deadlift of 635lbs (having NOT deadlifted before) and was using 265 for his workouts. With a PR of 315 in the incline bench, he was using 165lbs. I’m trying frequently to use less and less weight.
2: I’m training first thing in the morning in a fasted state: I compete later in the day in a fed state, and my best deadlift efforts were done then.
3: I am in a “new body” irrespective of the intramuscular fat. Leverages have changed and I’m still learning how to move about it.
4: Back to “weight moves weight”, once again, irrespective of intramuscular fat OR muscle mass retention, I simply had more weight to throw around at 202lbs vs 168. Since the deadlift is a hinge, just think of it like a see-saw. A heavier individual on the end of a see-saw is going to have a greater impact than a lighter one. When I was heavier, I had more weight in my upper torso that I could see-saw against the weight of the bar on the deadlift, with my hips actting as the pivot point. Even if I held onto 100% of my muscle, or even if I GAINED muscle, I simply lost weight to use to my advantage. It’s why Cleve Dean KILLED it in the truck pull even at world’s strongest man: he was a 400lber against a bunch of 200-300lb dudes. He had a LOT of mass to pull against the truck.
There’s to speak to as well. I’ll admit I was flippant when I wrote the commenting regarding the 31lbs of weight loss, primarily because, full honesty: addressing the question of “Hey, why are you so much weaker now than you were before?” is tough for a strength athlete to address, especially after I’ve gone through 3 years of medical hell to FINALLY come out right on the other side. I am finally in a good way here, and I’m excited for the future, but a BIG part of that has been not looking at the numbers and just focusing on the effort. When comp day rollls around, I can hit the numbers I need, but in my garage, the number I’m interested in is “100%”, and that’s just talking effort.
Definitely appreciate the dialog! It’s a fascinating topic.
AM WORKOUT (0405 wake up via alarm) FASTED
MESS (Mass-Easy/Strength-Simple) Day 11: MMS Day 5
EASY STRENGTH WORK
Axle continental and strict press away/weighted chin superset
3x3x146
3x3x30
Came into this with some heavy fatigue: we finished up the kitchen cabinet painting project. I tapped out early into it and managed to get 5 hours of sleep after several hours of painting, Mrs stayed up until 0300 getting it all the way finished, but, in turn, I came into the workout feeling not super strong. Kept the weight light on the press and chins to work back into it and after that was done I felt solid.
Focusing hard on moving fast and smooth on the press. And, actually, brought that focus to the complexes as well, which I think is why I had zero pressing issues compared to previous 2 runs. I’ve been moving artificially slow, and it’s been meaning more time under the bar, which IS cool in terms of building muscle, but it has second and third order effects regarding getting through the set. Where I really found a place to move quick was the cleans: I stopped pausing at the top of the rack and just rolled straight to the next clean, and then from there into the front squat. It’s really a time bomb ticking: gotta outrun it.
Deads felt solid. Trying to get that grip set tight.
I violated protocol on the squats and used the next highest weight classes prescription. Glad I did. That was fantastically challenging, especially with the short rests. The squat style is feeling very natural now, and I’m sure it’s grooving all sorts of good motor patterns.
Just in general, I’m really a big fan of Easy Strength so far. Chaos is the plan, and duality and balance are real, so it’s awesome coming into each workout “knowing” what I’m going to do and it being the same thing 5 days a week. Makes set-up simple. Meanwhile, the chaos comes from the loaded carries always being different, from the conditioning work I throw at it, and from the madness that is linking Mass Made Simple into it. Which I’m ALSO a big fan of (the parts I’m doing at least). Another one of those programs that you need to DO before you can evaluate it. It looks simple enough on paper, but going from those complexes into the high rep squats is QUITE a sensation. The only “issue” is how prescriptive the program loads are, but I feel like this can be worked around by adjusting the squat style difficulty. Perhaps a future run will be hands wide SSB squats, or front squats.
The 10 minutes of assistance work at the end is something I stole from Brian Alsruhe and Jamie Lewis (dealer’s choice). I like the idea of setting a block of time to do “whatever”.
Didn’t log it, but yesterday I got in a 3 mile walk with my kid and then 300 squats and 35 dips. Should have Tang Soo Do tonight.2
Well, this has definitely been an exercise in communication and context.
I did not know this. I’m sorry to hear that, and glad you’re on the mend. I guess I have some reading to catch up on.
Last I saw was when you were coming back from your ACL tear, and the next thing I saw was more crazy intense training (as before). A six or seven year gap or so. I interpolated between those two points, and while I assumed [rightfully] that after these years you’ve continued to get stronger, faster, better, I guess I missed some important things.
I certainly never meant to suggest “Hey, why are you so much weaker now than you were before?”. That was not even remotely in the ballpark of my questioning.
It was more like, pardon the really bad analogy, “Hey Hendrix, I know you’re really good at guitar. Why are you busy practicing Fur Elise at the piano?” Some similarities, but different enough. Couldn’t quite understand the motivations driving the decision.
Your choices for that are pretty clear now, though.
Though I wasn’t the one to bring bodyweight into the discussion, it got my mental wheels spinning, and a maybe a bit derailed. The bodyweight vs strength question – and really, bodyweight in relation to many things, like injury potential – has always been near and dear, considering where I’ve struggled with increasing both. I agree it’s an interesting topic to discuss, but it needs to be sufficiently depersonalized, and it hasn’t been, here.
When it comes to the physics of the deadlift, to use your line, we’re going to have to agree to disagree. But I think this is also a case of “history is written by the victor”. Or “the physics of deadlifting is defined by those who deadlift the most”
As for this, “I say that I feel like you’ve got a solution that is looking for a problem here”, I agree in principle. Though even that solution seems pretty simple: for most lifters, just eat more, followed by then eat better.
I spend most of my professional life exploring problem spaces, working through the nuances and complexities. With most things in life, the solutions are usually simple. Understanding why those solutions work, when/why/how they fail, and monitoring and managing those failures, that’s a lot more complicated.
But now in stupid brain mode, I still see your axle double overhand deficit deadlifts as a personal challenge. Your first workout of 3x3x205+chains seemed like it should have been entirely doable for me. So I want to be able to do that. And to test/improve my deadlift. And axle press.
Maybe 80% of my log right now is just trying to convince myself to stay the course.
@LoRez agreeing to disagree is absolutely a great way forward. Disagreements are what keep life interesting. And I’m glad I was able to provide some clarity regarding my decisions.
Though even that solution seems pretty simple: for most lifters, just eat more, followed by then eat better.
Funny enough, Louie Simmons summed this up really well and it relates TO the deadlift. “Keep gaining weight until your deadlift goes DOWN, then drop a weight class. That’s where you compete”. Eventually, body comp can negatively impact deadlifting mechanics (to say nothing of the hands themselves just getting too damn thick), but, otherwise: being big is great for being strong.
Those sets of 30 are straight out of “Mass Made Simple”. I’m using 7lbs more than RX just because I’m using an Ironmind Buffalo Bar and don’t want to screw around with small plates, but otherwise, just sticking with the plan…which is Chaos, haha.
Pretty proud of this: Carnivore leftover pizza. Used egg white wraps for crust, sour cream for sauce (cream cheese would be baller as well), shredded grassfed cheddar and some leftover bison.
Carrying a circus dumbbell while wearing a 40lb weighted vest and some chains
-Several trips: how do you even evaluate these things?
1.75 mile walk w/40lb vest
Notes:
Today is the “rest” day of MMS, which is perfect for ES4FL. One of these days I need to give heavy hands a legit go, but I dig going straight from carries into the walk using the vest.
Really focusing on moving the weights quick. Also tried to focus on irradiation with the deads today: squeezing the bar hard and gritting my teeth. All those things I used to “know” that I’d been putting to the wayside. Easy Strength is helping bring them back. I really am just becoming a huge fan of this, and I’m surprised at the physical transformation I’m experiencing from it. I thought for sure this would be a “back burner” approach to muscle, but I think I look the best I have in a long while and it’s without breaking myself. Something to be said about the volume accumulated over 5 days of training the same lift. I do imagine the daily work from Jamie Lewis is helping as well, but it’s all a system coming together.
Got the day off work, so going to fill up some general activity along the way. Lawn mowing, walking, chores, etc. Finally got some more beef liver as well: been out for a few weeks. Be good to get that nutrition source again.
I like what I came up with on the loaded carries. It was another one of those “made up on the spot” sorta things. Chaos is the plan, and Easy Strength’s prescription of “never repeat the same loaded carry” is perfect for just that.
Complex A (row-clean-front squat-press-squat-good morning) 1 min rest between complexes
5x115lb
3x5x130 (only 3 presses on final complex)
5x115
Buffalo Bar Squat (1 min rests)
10x102
10x122
50x142
Conan curls
50 pull aparts
Notes:
Been coming into most of this week’s workouts fatigued. Most likely need to get some more calories in. Well I got 15 buffalo wild wings waiting for me for dinner tonight (heard they cook them in beef tallow, so game on) and Texas De Brazil on Saturday, along with my carnivore brunch on Sunday, so that should set things up just dandy, especially after this workout.
By the third press I was feeling pretty strong, and the reverse hypers didn’t take as much out of me as usual. Moved up weight on the complexes too, and really felt pretty mighty on them. 5 sets of 5 is really pretty gnarly, and going from that to my first “to 50” workout was just fantastic. Dan John remains a sadistic genius.
Gonna take a moment to pat myself on the back, because this was an awesome workout.
Didn’t have a chance to log the rest of yesterday, but got in a 3 mile walk with the Mrs out in the sun in the afternoon, my usual daily 300 squats and push ups, and the most fantastic “breakfast for dinner” to date. I had SO many animals. I had 2 omelets made with 2 whole pasture raised eggs and 1 egg white, grassfed ghee, smoked piedmontese grassfed steak tips and ground bison, and grassfed swiss and Dubliner cheese, alongside no sugar/uncured pork bacon and paleo chicken sausages/a chicken breast patty. So we’ve got irish cattle, piedmontese cattle, bison, chicken, and pork. I WISH I thought to throw in some goat cheese to get another animal on there. This morning, I had some raw beef liver, primarily because I haven’t had a chance to cook it yet, but it honestly wasn’t terrible.
May be doing some Tang Soo Do tonight, depending on how the kiddo is feeling after swim day.
Got in my 300 squats and push ups, and then TSD was a total barn burner of bodyweight exercises. Another few hundred sit-ups and a million push up variants. Good to do stuff like that. Shoulders are on fire. Also had 15 naked wings from Buffalo Wild Wings. They fry their wings in beef tallow apparently, so that’s cool. They’re not the best I ever had, but kid ranked their all american cheeseburger as their number 2 cheeseburger of all time (In n Out is still #1: love this kid), so we found a winner here.
Hey dude, got a training question I want to bounce off you. I’m looking at starting up the “Strength and Conditioning” template from 5/3/1 Forever. It’s been on my training “to-do” list for a long time and for what my current set of goals are it seems like the right choice.
One problem, I don’t have a prowler. The end of each lifting day calls for either prowler or sled work. I have a tire and tow strap sled set up which works great for me. Lots of friction and fairly quiet for the neighbors and easy on my driveway. I don’t really have the space to store, or means to transport a prowler right now.
I’m not crazy about making substitutions to programs before I ever run them, but was wondering if you had any ideas on the matter. I was thinking I could find an empty parking lot to push my car in or use the tire sled and extend my arms out in front of me with the straps under my armpits or over my shoulders.
@mr.v3lv3t Having never run the program before, I’d just be guessing. Car pushes are what predate the prowler, so it’s definitely an option, but a sled works in a pinch. I don’t think the pushing is SUPER critical to get the benefits of sled/prowler training: more just the consistent concentric loading.
If it’s just a space issue, you could also split the difference with something like this.
Quick sum of day up until this point. Slept until 0715, immediate 300 squats and push ups, amazing breakfast, chores, lunch at Q’doba (3 sides of meat as a meal: brisket, steak and chicken, alongside the leftover cheese from half of my kid’s quesadilla)
Press the keg 1 time, carry it overhead, load it one time, regular carry back.
Press 1 time other side, carry, load once, regular carry back.
Now press 2, load 3
Press 2 otherside, load 4
You get the pattern. Up to 3 presses and 6 loads, then reset the ladder. Got through 2 full ladders in 20 minutes, then 1 per side.
Then went on a 3+ mile walk with the kiddo immediately after, while my heart rate was still up.
2 hours out from Texas De Brazil. My abs are practically carved into my torso, and peep those shoulder veins in the video thumbnail: I NEED these calories.
