[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Anyone who thinks that Marijuana should be illegal but has no problem with alcohol being legal is a hypocrite. [/quote]
Alcohol causes tens of thousands of deaths each year. The only reason it’s not illegal is because it’s so deeply ingrained in society. To say that pot should be legal because alcohol is legal is like saying I’ve got a broken arm so I might as well break my leg too.
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Terrible comparison. Marijuana has never caused a death or anything close.[/quote]
You’re an idiot. Smoking marijuana causes cancer. Cannabis has all the same carcinogens that tobacco has and in much higher levels.[/quote]
Newsflash: Cigarettes are legal even though they cause cancer. High fructose corn syrup is legal even though it is linked to obesity and diabetes. There are a metric shit ton of products that are not “good for you” that are legal. DRIVING is legal and it kills plenty of people.
And our society trusts us to make those decisions on whether or not to use those products. If we use them irresponsibly, we get in trouble. My argument is not that driving while high should be legal. My argument is that POT should be legal. And if you break the law and do something irresponsible while high (just like if you were drunk) you pay the price.
How can you argue conservative values on one hand and espouse nanny stateism in the other? Why do YOU care if it causes cancer? If you don’t want cancer, don’t smoke it. But your position on this is the exact same as Bloomberg trying to outlaw soft drinks! And you saw how THAT worked out…
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.[/quote]
Do you believe the REAL cost of keeping Cannabis illegal is worth it? I’m speaking of the cost of arresting, trying, incarcerating, the social services intervention as a result of the incarceration, the tax money lost on the convict cuz he cant get a good job for years after his conviction, etc… The social costs that arguably over target African Americans for arrest and conviction. Is that COST worth more than some people losing some motivation and short term memory? At the same time where Alcoholics are dying from cirrhosis and drunk driving and fighting while drunk?
Think of all the people who would RATHER get high than drunk! Imagine less fights, less accidents from drunk drivers, less domestic abuse, etc… People who are high … wait for it … LAUGH. They LAUGH. Or they get horny and fuck. But for the most part they laugh.
Now compare that to alcohol. And the costs I mentioned in my first paragraph.
Do you believe the REAL cost of keeping Cannabis illegal is worth it? I’m speaking of the cost of arresting, trying, incarcerating, the social services intervention as a result of the incarceration, the tax money lost on the convict cuz he cant get a good job for years after his conviction, etc… The social costs that arguably over target African Americans for arrest and conviction. Is that COST worth more than some people losing some motivation and short term memory? At the same time where Alcoholics are dying from cirrhosis and drunk driving and fighting while drunk?
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I don’t know if it’s worth it. There are equally compelling arguments for keeping it illegal. So I’m not convinced that I should jump on the legalisation band wagon. I’ve also seen the harmful effects with my own eyes and I don’t like the stuff.
[quote]
Think of all the people who would RATHER get high than drunk! Imagine less fights, less accidents from drunk drivers, less domestic abuse, etc… People who are high … wait for it … LAUGH. They LAUGH. Or they get horny and fuck. But for the most part they laugh.
Now compare that to alcohol. And the costs I mentioned in my first paragraph.
IS IT WORTH IT?[/quote]
Less drunk drivers more stoned drivers. Less domestic abuse? I doubt it. More useless idiots on welfare? Undoubtably.
Alcohol causes tens of thousands of deaths each year. The only reason it’s not illegal is because it’s so deeply ingrained in society. To say that pot should be legal because alcohol is legal is like saying I’ve got a broken arm so I might as well break my leg too.
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Oh , thank GAWD, I thought you had decided to “FUCK” up yer owen head
I know , Oh Prudish one . getting high is not is not an effect of toxifying one’s self ( INTOXICATE ) it is in the mind , it is not stumbling
I personally feel close to my physical self , more of an animal . But still social and never aggressive . One of my favorite things to do is pitch the hard ball . I feel more Accurate , can apply more heat and never hurt myself
Do you believe the REAL cost of keeping Cannabis illegal is worth it? I’m speaking of the cost of arresting, trying, incarcerating, the social services intervention as a result of the incarceration, the tax money lost on the convict cuz he cant get a good job for years after his conviction, etc… The social costs that arguably over target African Americans for arrest and conviction. Is that COST worth more than some people losing some motivation and short term memory? At the same time where Alcoholics are dying from cirrhosis and drunk driving and fighting while drunk?
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I don’t know if it’s worth it. There are equally compelling arguments for keeping it illegal. So I’m not convinced that I should jump on the legalisation band wagon. I’ve also seen the harmful effects with my own eyes and I don’t like the stuff.
The useless idiots on welfare are already getting high. Almost half of Americans have gotten high. Tens of millions of Americans already get high regularly. It’s already legal in several states and “decriminalized” in even more states. Kinda like gay marriage. It’s gaining momentum.
Here’s a thought: If republicans/conservatives would get the stick out of their ass on JUST THOSE TWO ISSUES, imagine how many voters would begin to vote our way? Look at the map. We would dominate. Smoking pot and gay marriage are NOT so very apart from conservative values of less government control, more freedom of the PEOPLE to made decisions for themselves and take ownership of their lives. Those BASIC values are VERY “republican”. But they only apply it to business, religion and campaign finance… If they would take the same attitude and broaden the horizon a bit with SOCIAL ISSUES, then the country as a whole would be much better served. Let people be free to make their OWN decisions - not just with business, but with their PERSONAL lives. If they aren’t hurting anyone, who gives a shit?
I’m not trying to derail this by bringing up gay marriage, I was just making a point that if people who think like you get the stick out of your ass, the debt would go down and the country would be better for it. Neither pot nor fags are going away. Accept the inevitable and play it SMART so we can WIN the fiscal game. That’s what will be our un doing FAR sooner than any issues that may or may not arise from “looser” moral standards. You are missing the forest for the trees. Concede a few things to gain more voters and WIN…
The useless idiots on welfare are already getting high. Almost half of Americans have gotten high. Tens of millions of Americans already get high regularly. It’s already legal in several states and “decriminalized” in even more states. Kinda like gay marriage. It’s gaining momentum.
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I know. And I don’t believe for a moment that anyone can reverse course and stop them. However that doesn’t mean I’m prepared to compromise more core values.
“We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man.” - Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West
That’s a truly disturbing thought. To think that large numbers of people are primary interested in deviant sex and drugs is a sign of a civilisation rotten to the core.
Homosexuality and drugs are anathema to me. They have nothing to do with traditional or social conservatism. They are libertine values.
I’m a social conservative. I believe that the foundation of society is the family unit and that if you undermine the family unit and family values the civil society comes crashing down. That’s the cause of pretty much all the problems in society.
Strongly disagree. The problems today are a direct result of the libertinism of the counter cultural revolution of the 1960’s.
And neither am I.
On the contrary it is socially liberal so called “conservatives” are missing the forest for the trees.
The useless idiots on welfare are already getting high. Almost half of Americans have gotten high. Tens of millions of Americans already get high regularly. It’s already legal in several states and “decriminalized” in even more states. Kinda like gay marriage. It’s gaining momentum.
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I know. And I don’t believe for a moment that anyone can reverse course and stop them. However that doesn’t mean I’m prepared to compromise more core values.
“We are born into this time and must bravely follow the path to the destined end. There is no other way. Our duty is to hold on to the lost position, without hope, without rescue, like that Roman soldier whose bones were found in front of a door in Pompeii, who, during the eruption of Vesuvius, died at his post because they forgot to relieve him. That is greatness. That is what it means to be a thoroughbred. The honorable end is the one thing that can not be taken from a man.” - Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West
[/quote]A very touching quote to be sure. The thoroughbred part is a little disturbing to me, but I digress. An honorable death does not preclude one’s ability to adapt. That’s what has allowed us to evolve and grow as a species. Remaining stagnant is death.[quote]
That’s a truly disturbing thought. To think that large numbers of people are primary interested in deviant sex and drugs is a sign of a civilisation rotten to the core.
[/quote]Um, you really think that this country is NOT rotten to the core? That ship has sailed, my friend. The best we can hope for at this point is electing fiscal conservatives that will help avoid the impending hyper-inflation and financial collapse that is pretty much inevitable if we stay on our current track. Once we get the conservatives IN OFFICE and keep them in office for a while, only THEN can we have any influence at all on reclaiming any traditional values. Two steps forward, one step back… [quote]
Homosexuality and drugs are anathema to me. They have nothing to do with traditional or social conservatism. They are libertine values.
[/quote]They are values that a GROWING percentage of our population embraces… Failure to recognize that and adapt will only ensure the extinction of conservatives. Have a long term plan.[quote]
I’m a social conservative. I believe that the foundation of society is the family unit and that if you undermine the family unit and family values the civil society comes crashing down. That’s the cause of pretty much all the problems in society.
[/quote]Well, to be fair, that’s one big reason why LGBT’s want the right to marry. So they can have families. They may not be “traditional” families, but they will be families nonetheless.[quote]
Strongly disagree. The problems today are a direct result of the libertinism of the counter cultural revolution of the 1960’s.
[/quote]Again, we’ve reached a tipping point. You are not going to put that genie back in the bottle.[quote]
And neither am I.
On the contrary it is socially liberal so called “conservatives” are missing the forest for the trees.[/quote]
All the “libertines” have to do is wait. Eventually, you and conservative base that thinks like you will die out. Unless you adapt, gain power and bring about change FROM WITHIN. You can’t ram it down people’s throat. The war will be fought on Twitter, Facebook and whatever other new social media platforms roll out in the next few decades. You have to capture the attention of the people with a PALATABLE MESSAGE. You have to ADAPT to the world we actually LIVE IN, not the world that you nostalgically remember. Only then can you overcome.
That’s a truly disturbing thought. To think that large numbers of people are primary interested in deviant sex and drugs is a sign of a civilisation rotten to the core.
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Nothing I like better than smoke a little doobie and have some deviant sex
I am sorry Oh Prudish One ,
I know I am just full of questions but you do know that Cigar is a a drug , don’t you , even if it is bubble gum
Paraphilia describes the experience of intense sexual arousal to highly atypical objects, situations, or individuals. Paraphilic behavior may be illegal in some jurisdictions, but may also be tolerated.
Yes I know the ship has sailed. But I’m not sailing with it.
If the ship has sailed as you say, and as I agreed, then those values can’t be reclaimed. I don’t believe the decline of the West can be reversed.
I don’t deny it. But I’m not going to make it easy for them.
It’s never going to happen. As you said the ship has sailed.
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So you’re going to stand at your post while they’ve forgotten to relieve you? You appear to have subscribed to that stance and attributed an “honorable death” as it were. Whatever floats your boat. I would submit for your consideration that opening up your mind and adapting might bring you more happiness in the long run. But it’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
ANY coarse can be changed. Thoughts and pop culture are very impermanent. Family values are still possible. You just have to expand your definition of what “family” is. With the upcoming financial collapse and the inevitable suffering, conflict and poverty that accompanies it, the weak will eventually be culled. Or at least diminished. We are due for a good Malthusian crisis. But after that is what’s important.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.[/quote]
The argument you have presented backfired just about the same way that regulation of hemp has.
Traditional values and beliefs? OK. Lets hearken back to a simpler time when good salt of the earth people had no regulations what so ever on the use or possession of marijuana.
That would be prior to 1906 and federally in 1937. So the good conservative reaction to this would be to repeal those laws and cal the social experiment a failure.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.[/quote]
The argument you have presented backfired just about the same way that regulation of hemp has.
Traditional values and beliefs? OK. Lets hearken back to a simpler time when good salt of the earth people had no regulations what so ever on the use or possession of marijuana.
That would be prior to 1906 and federally in 1937. So the good conservative reaction to this would be to repeal those laws and cal the social experiment a failure.
[/quote]
That’s because prior to 1906 no one had even heard about marijuana as a drug apart from a handful of artists.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.[/quote]
The argument you have presented backfired just about the same way that regulation of hemp has.
Traditional values and beliefs? OK. Lets hearken back to a simpler time when good salt of the earth people had no regulations what so ever on the use or possession of marijuana.
That would be prior to 1906 and federally in 1937. So the good conservative reaction to this would be to repeal those laws and cal the social experiment a failure.
[/quote]
That’s because prior to 1906 no one had even heard about marijuana as a drug apart from a handful of artists.
[/quote]
“As early as 1853, recreational cannabis was listed as a “fashionable narcotic”. By the 1880s, oriental-style hashish parlors were flourishing alongside opium dens, to the point that one could be found in every major city on the east coast. It was estimated there were around 500 such establishments in New York City alone. Hemp cigarettes were reported to be used by Mexican soldiers early as 1874”
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I’m a conservative not a radical libertarian. Conservatism is first and foremost reactionary. Conservatives shouldn’t be eager for social experimentation or eager to abandon traditional values and beliefs even when those beliefs may be imperfect. I’m also familiar with the consequences of freely available opium in China in the 19th century. I’m not saying cannabis is as bad as opium but it does have negative effects. I’ve witnessed them amongst my peers; lack of motivation, short term memory problems, cognitive impairment and in cases of heavy users mental problems.[/quote]
The argument you have presented backfired just about the same way that regulation of hemp has.
Traditional values and beliefs? OK. Lets hearken back to a simpler time when good salt of the earth people had no regulations what so ever on the use or possession of marijuana.
That would be prior to 1906 and federally in 1937. So the good conservative reaction to this would be to repeal those laws and cal the social experiment a failure.
[/quote]
That’s because prior to 1906 no one had even heard about marijuana as a drug apart from a handful of artists.
[/quote]
That is just patently ridiculous. It has been known about and used for centuries. Calming tonics, tinctures, powders and other forms were widely available through an apothecary.
