I’m always late but welcome. I agree with Soldog that you should take it slow if the back isn’t 100%. Do rack pulls or a more limited range of motion exercise feel better on the back?? I read an article recently about guys with certain back or knee injuries doing 1/4 squats and 1/4 deads(rack pulls) and still making gains.
Does your back tolerate Romanian deadlifts? If so it might be a good exercise that you could load fairly heavy and help you deadlift more when the back is ready. Also you could try them with a slightly wider stance so they have more carryover to sumo.
Rack pulls, Rack Pulls and Rack Pulls. Start with the bar inch an above the knee for a cycle then lower 1 pin every 2 cycles.
I rehabbed myself and others using these when range of motion becomes an issue.
Now I know an inch above the knee is not alot great range but now you the ability to perfect form and let your L2 heal while still loading your spine/posterior chain.
Follow the 5/3/1 protocol on these.
Remember to sit back, squeeze the bar, Flex your tri’s, drive your heels through the floor and push your hips through. The bar is in constant contact with your body all the way to to the top.
Hope this helps
Fischer
Edit: The reason for the rack pulls is to help form and let your lower back heal. Most people unless lifting with a good partner will continue to deadlift long after form degrades and suffer an injury.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Welcome aboard, Oldman Powers! If you are a chronic over-trainier, you should fit right in. [/quote]
Deload? What’s a ‘deload’? 
Welcome aboard. Nice thing about being ‘old’ is we tend to check the egos at the door.
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
About the Avatar - That’s my 19yo daughter and I drink’in bud lights and sing’in country songs on a Texas beach. If any 20 something bicep kisser wanders in here and says anything about her, just remember I have a shotgun, shovel and a big back yard. No one will miss your ass.[/quote]
That’s how I explained it to my daughters boyfriend AFTER I litterally scared the piss out of him and choked him out. Being verbally abusive is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I just hope she figures out people like that just will never change and aren’t worth the time or effort. Her being 18, of course, means sometimes what we say falls on deaf ears. That’s what I’m here for, to pick up the pieces…and if necessary, hide the corpses.
Cycle 1, Week 2
Leg Day
Squats:
Warmup - Stationary bike, stretching, 2x10xbar, 8x135, 5x185
Working Sets - Full ROM
3x205
3x225
5x255
BBB -
5x10x145
Leg Curls:
5x10x120
Other:
Standing Calf - Smith Bar, step platform, paused bottom/top
10x195, 10x225, 10x245
Seated Calf -
10x135, 10x160, 10x170
Felt very solid on squats today and paid very close attention to form. Once I warmed up and stretched the lower back didn’t bother me at all, so its onward and upward with these. Like all of the other lifts, the last two BBB sets are grinders.
OG - I’m try’in to gain weight. Weighed in at 192 this morning and its held for a week. This is the heaviest I’ve ever been. Would like to get to a lean 205-210 and hold it there.
ecogenx - Thanks for the welcome and advice. Proud to have you check out my log. I think you are about my height, but damn son - you can throw some heavy stuff around.
mrodock - Great to have you help’in out. :-). I’ll take your advice anytime. Will look into the correct way to do those.
Fischer - Over the weekend I was thinking pretty seriously about doing those. Good to have that confirmation from a Trainer/PT. Not only do the ligaments take a long time to heal, they also take a long time to strengthen. Lots of lower weight/higher volume work will help build up supporting tissue and muscle. I like your suggested approach.
ruglayer - Thanks for the welcome. I’m loving this program so far. It feels like cheating compared to what I use to do. Wow - I feel for the kid that crosses you up - check that - I feel loathing and contempt for the kid that crosses you up. Unfortunately there are a lot of boys out who’s daddy never taught or showed them how to treat a lady. They need guys like us to give them a reality check. Nice job!
BTW - We are the stupidist people in the world. (a daughters viewpoint)
New Avatar - Not comfortable with my daughters photo and my ugly mug up there, so its changed to a photo of the jet sled I use to pilot in my younger days.
Nice work, OP. Glad the back is feeling better. I have found that 8-10,000+ mostly shitty calories a day helps if you are trying to gain weight. It might not be the type of weight you are looking for, however.
Cycle 1, Week 2
Shoulder Day -
Military Press:
Warmup - Seated machine press - 20x40, 10x70, 20xbar, 5x95
Working Sets -
3x115, 3x135, 4x155 (should have been 150 but I didn’t feel like messing with 2.5lb weights)
BBB:
MP 5x10x85
Assistance:
Pull Ups -
10xBW, 10xBW, 10xBW, 8xBW, 5xBW
Other:
Preacher Curls -
3x75, 3x85, 8x95
Felt pretty good today except for the DOM’s in my calves. I did full ROM sets two days ago pausing at the top and bottom for a good stretch/contraction and have been walking funny ever since. Good stuff.
Deads tomorrow and I’ve been thinking about how to approach it. I’d like to continue doing full ROM movements so thinking of starting light and see how I feel. If the lower back gets uncomfortable I’ll move to rack pulls. Right now my lower back feels back to normal after last weeks Dead session.
jjack - Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I’ll pass on the shitty cal plan. (The SCP Diet?)stick to my current diet of pounding down as much food as I can at each meal within 20 minutes. I’ve gained 20lbs in the last couple of years and trimmed down a lot in the process. No hurry no worry.
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
Deads tomorrow and I’ve been thinking about how to approach it. I’d like to continue doing full ROM movements so thinking of starting light and see how I feel. If the lower back gets uncomfortable I’ll move to rack pulls. Right now my lower back feels back to normal after last weeks Dead session.
[/quote]
For what it’s worth I would recommend continuing to do full ROM deadlifts whether you decide to do rack pulls or not. I think doing 5x5x135 can be useful for keeping the groove fresh while you heal and can serve as part of your warm-up for rack pulls. It can also help keep the mobility in your hips for sumo deadlift.
As far as the low back, make sure you are sitting back when you set up for the sumo deadlift, your pelvis should not tilt (no low back rounding). Many people when they set up for the sumo deadlift squat down, this is incorrect. Sit back and pull the chest up, then initiate the pull.
[quote]mrodock wrote:
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
Deads tomorrow and I’ve been thinking about how to approach it. I’d like to continue doing full ROM movements so thinking of starting light and see how I feel. If the lower back gets uncomfortable I’ll move to rack pulls. Right now my lower back feels back to normal after last weeks Dead session.
[/quote]
For what it’s worth I would recommend continuing to do full ROM deadlifts whether you decide to do rack pulls or not. I think doing 5x5x135 can be useful for keeping the groove fresh while you heal and can serve as part of your warm-up for rack pulls. It can also help keep the mobility in your hips for sumo deadlift.
As far as the low back, make sure you are sitting back when you set up for the sumo deadlift, your pelvis should not tilt (no low back rounding). Many people when they set up for the sumo deadlift squat down, this is incorrect. Sit back and pull the chest up, then initiate the pull.[/quote]
Thanks for the advise Matt. I’m very conscious of a tight/arched upper and lower back at the bottom. Rounding is death.
I read a DL article over on eliteFTS - front page by David Adamson. I think there is some truth in it but he advocates getting the shoulders further over the bar than I care for. Would like to hear some thoughts on it.
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
[quote]mrodock wrote:
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
Deads tomorrow and I’ve been thinking about how to approach it. I’d like to continue doing full ROM movements so thinking of starting light and see how I feel. If the lower back gets uncomfortable I’ll move to rack pulls. Right now my lower back feels back to normal after last weeks Dead session.
[/quote]
For what it’s worth I would recommend continuing to do full ROM deadlifts whether you decide to do rack pulls or not. I think doing 5x5x135 can be useful for keeping the groove fresh while you heal and can serve as part of your warm-up for rack pulls. It can also help keep the mobility in your hips for sumo deadlift.
As far as the low back, make sure you are sitting back when you set up for the sumo deadlift, your pelvis should not tilt (no low back rounding). Many people when they set up for the sumo deadlift squat down, this is incorrect. Sit back and pull the chest up, then initiate the pull.[/quote]
Thanks for the advise Matt. I’m very conscious of a tight/arched upper and lower back at the bottom. Rounding is death.
I read a DL article over on eliteFTS - front page by David Adamson. I think there is some truth in it but he advocates getting the shoulders further over the bar than I care for. Would like to hear some thoughts on it.[/quote]
I disagree with most of his advice. I think his picture to illustrate a bad sumo deadlift starting position is closer to correct than the “good” starting position. I think his knees are too far forward in both pictures, and I disagree with starting with the shins on the bar.
His advice to do most of your deadlifting with around 70% and with a double overhand grip is borderline ridiculous.
[quote]mrodock wrote:
I disagree with most of his advice. I think his picture to illustrate a bad sumo deadlift starting position is closer to correct than the “good” starting position. I think his knees are too far forward in both pictures, and I disagree with starting with the shins on the bar.
His advice to do most of your deadlifting with around 70% and with a double overhand grip is borderline ridiculous.[/quote]
I wasn’t too keen on the article. I can see what he is trying to accomplish by reducing any unnecessary movement, but it may be at the expense of something else. My takeaway is he wants the bar moving straight up and down (makes sense), but the bar hangs from your shoulder sockets, not your shoulder blades.
I’m bored…can we take the HELLGATE out for a spin?!! Now that looks like a blast!! Oh, the deadlift article, no clue, there are plenty of smart guys on the site you can help with that: I pull sumo for one reason…its just way cooler to say sumo than conventional.
Cycle1, Week2
Deadlift Day
Warmup:
10min stationary bike - hillclimb mode
10min stretching - really tight from Tuesday Squat day
Deadlift:
warmup - conventional 10xbar, 10xbar, 5x95, 5x135, sumo 5x135
Sumo Working Sets - Full ROM
5x185
5x205
1x265
5x205
5x205
5x205
Hanging Leg Raises -
5xBW
3xBW
3xBW
2xBW
Felt great today - no back issues whatsoever.
I tested 265 and it went up pretty fast, but not confident yet. Felt like I could do 205 all day.
I’m out-of-cycle on deads in order to groove my form, condition the CNS and build confidence.
Stoked!
OG - My Coast Guard Licence is expired but if its less than 6 people, I can pilot. Spent a lot of hours driving jet sleds in my younger days. An E ticket fo sho. The pilot on the back platform is standing above a pair of balanced/blueprinted 460ci engines putting out over 1100HP. That was back in the day, I’m sure they have a lot more HP now. Holds 40 people, runs up river about 50MPH and only needs 3 inches of water.
Cycle 1, Week 3
5/3/1 week, here we go!
Bench -
WU 20xbar, 20xbar, 10x135, 5x185
Working sets -
5x225
3x250
1x315
1x330
BBB -
5x10x155
Kroc Rows -
5x10x65
Other:
Curls -
10x75
10x85
5x95
Decided to test my 1RM to see exactly where I’m at. 315 went up OK but my form was off. I bent the plane line going up. In other words, the bar started up vertically from my chest about half way up it shifted about an inch towards my head. Not a big deal but I like machine-like form. 330 felt like a house. I didn’t want to be owned by a 50 year old, 192lb old man. Tough shit - It went up. Felt like I was going to shear every muscle between my ribs and hip along the way.
I’m spent.
For those of you more experienced with 5/3/1, should I reset my 1RM to my true 1RM or continue at 90%?
Thanks!
Oldman
Personally I’d keep going the way you are at 90% and push the reps. From everything Wendler says it seems to be the key. Its hard for me to get more than 4 reps oon my week 3 money sets so maybe I’m not the right guy to ask though.
Nice work, three plates is a lot of weight to bench.
The book says keep adding. 5 lbs. a month to your working max till you can’t do the reps. Then reset to to 90% of your new max, only after you fail. Testing is fine to see where you are at, but you are not supposed to base your workouts off such tests.
By the book - A couple of quotes from Jim.
“Most people live and die by their 1-rep max. To me, this is foolish and shortsighted. If your squat goes from 225x6 to 225x9, youve gotten stronger. If you keep setting and breaking rep records, you’ll get stronger. Don’t get stuck just trying to increase your one rep max. If you keep breaking your rep records, it’ll go up.”
“you don’t have to train maximally to get strong. You just have to train optimally.”
“In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that you’re basing your percentages on.”
I’ve been confused about the 5/3/1 week thinking it was OK to test a 1RM. In reality, Jim wants me to do as many reps against 95% of my 90% 1RM. In the next cycle I add 5 lbs for upper body and 10lbs for lower body to the estimated 1RM and then take 90% of that number as my adjusted 1RM for sets. I probably short changed myself today. I should have shot for 5+ reps at 285.
I get it.
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
Cycle 1, Week 3
5/3/1 week, here we go!
Bench -
WU 20xbar, 20xbar, 10x135, 5x185
Working sets -
5x225
3x250
1x315
1x330
BBB -
5x10x155
Kroc Rows -
5x10x65
Other:
Curls -
10x75
10x85
5x95
Decided to test my 1RM to see exactly where I’m at. 315 went up OK but my form was off. I bent the plane line going up. In other words, the bar started up vertically from my chest about half way up it shifted about an inch towards my head. Not a big deal but I like machine-like form. 330 felt like a house. I didn’t want to be owned by a 50 year old, 192lb old man. Tough shit - It went up. Felt like I was going to shear every muscle between my ribs and hip along the way.
I’m spent.
For those of you more experienced with 5/3/1, should I reset my 1RM to my true 1RM or continue at 90%?
Thanks!
Oldman[/quote]
if i’m understanding you right, you are pressing the bar straight up?? i find the bodies naturally presses at an arc back over the shoulders. the weight shouldn’t drift back over the face but back over the shoulders is optimal. my bar path starts at the nipple line and then arcs back over the shoulders. if i was to attempt to press straight up i wouldn’t have nearly the lockout power.
[quote]Oldman Powers wrote:
By the book - A couple of quotes from Jim.
“Most people live and die by their 1-rep max. To me, this is foolish and shortsighted. If your squat goes from 225x6 to 225x9, youve gotten stronger. If you keep setting and breaking rep records, you’ll get stronger. Don’t get stuck just trying to increase your one rep max. If you keep breaking your rep records, it’ll go up.”
“you don’t have to train maximally to get strong. You just have to train optimally.”
“In the second four week phase, the lifter will increase his maxes no more than 5 pounds per upper body lift, and 10 pounds for lower body lifts. These increases are to the max that you’re basing your percentages on.”
I’ve been confused about the 5/3/1 week thinking it was OK to test a 1RM. In reality, Jim wants me to do as many reps against 95% of my 90% 1RM. In the next cycle I add 5 lbs for upper body and 10lbs for lower body to the estimated 1RM and then take 90% of that number as my adjusted 1RM for sets. I probably short changed myself today. I should have shot for 5+ reps at 285.
I get it.[/quote]
Jim, obviously, conveys a lot of truth in what he says. There is one point where I differ from him, though. I don’t disagree, just differ. He says, “If your squat goes from 225x6 to 225x9, youve gotten stronger.” I would agree with that, BUT, it can also be indicative of endurance. You can add those 3 reps without ever getting stronger, because endurance will cover it. That being said, you will, in that rep/weight range, gain strength as well.
That is why I like to test my max. According to his formula, given the reps I was putting up before veering off 5-3-1, my bench max should have been 360#. Obviously, since I haven’t put 350# up yet, that is not correct. Has my strength gone up? Sure. But my endurance has gone up even more.
Also, since I have happy dreams of oneday pressing 405#, I need to test my 1RM…unless I just want to wait until my monthly +5# gets there, which I don’t.
Not to mention, anyone wanting to compete kind of needs to know what their max is.