More Evidence Tea Party Has Serious Problems

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Instead of “not posting” and “not talking about it,” people from both sides should KEEP showing the other side these types of events/things. Do it right when they happen and have people actually denounce it. All too often both sides pretend that it’s only “the other side” or that “well…the other side is MUCH worse.” I think there should be more threads that point out the extremes of both sides to keep them on the periphery. If this doesn’t happen, one risks having, for example, Sarah Palin as a VP (or president).

Shit, look at the violence thread I started. People actually are denying that those events took place. Others are saying that violence against children “makes sense.” These people SHOULD be brought out in these type of conversations. They should be exposed and denounced.

In threads on PWI I’ve seen regular posters on this site advocate for mass deportations (from the USA) of Muslims. I’ve seen the worst kind of personal attacks leveled against homosexual posters. The list could go on and on. Why shouldn’t these type of people be brought to the front and ostracized? If it isn’t done from “the other side,” I don’t think it will ever be done.

BTW, IMO this is the value in FOX/MSNBC. When they go after the worst elements of “the other side,” they force change where otherwise there might not be change. [/quote]

Wrong. It is counterproductive to continually point out the flaws in the opposition party when both major parties, as well as the Tea Party, are all guilty of the same behavior. They should be brought out to the front, but by themselves and their peers, not the opposition. It leads to accusation after accusation without resolve. Bickering only begats more bickering. I had an incident with my neighbor yesterday that illustrates this point.

I was playing the drums in the garage and my roommate opened the garage door to move some shit in from outside. I continued to play, knowing that my whole street was being bombarded by the sound of the drums with the door open. It took about ten seconds of this for my asshole neighbor to come over and scream at me to “shut the fucking door! I’m sick of that shit!” This is extremely typical of the way he interacts with everyone else on the street. I shut the door and then played as loudly as I possibly could until I snapped a drumstick and had to stop.

In retaliation, my neighbor decided that it would be a good day to get out his chainsaw and cut up some wood, except that he did so at 9pm right up until 10pm when the city ordinance requires excessive noises to cease.

Now I could go over there and scream at him about his dog barking outside my window at all hours or his chainsaw usage and so on, and he could retort by screaming about the drums or revving my dirtbike in the driveway or playing loud music while I lift in the garage. And he would be right: I make noise sometimes, but so does he. But nothing will get resolved because anytime I call him out on his shit, he can simply call me out on mine.

I want to live in relative peace and comfort and so does my neighbor. But I’m not going to expect him to stop by continually yelling at him about his shit. I’m better off making attempts to limit my noise myself out of my own interest. I don’t respond well to jerks yelling at me about my transgressions regarding the drums. Extremism is our own worst enemies, so if I want any foot to stand on if he complains about an isolated incident, I should make sure that at the very least I make less noise than him. If I can’t shut myself up, how can I expect to shut him up? Am I making any sense here?

22

I’ve been listening to the radio this morning and I just listened to a writer, John Avlon, talking about his latest book, Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America. This guy makes some absolutely spot-on assessments of the current political climate in this country. He could have a field day with members of both ends of the lunatic fringe represented in this forum. I plan on picking up a copy of it today and maybe everyone else on this forum should do the same…

23

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I’ve been listening to the radio this morning and I just listened to a writer, John Avlon, talking about his latest book, Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America. This guy makes some absolutely spot-on assessments of the current political climate in this country. He could have a field day with members of both ends of the lunatic fringe represented in this forum. I plan on picking up a copy of it today and maybe everyone else on this forum should do the same… [/quote]

Lunatic Fringe? Dammit, now I wanna go watch Vision Quest.

mike

24

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think it would be dangerous for the tea party to allow that guy to speak for them. He would have to be vetted . who is he , criminal past ? Drug useage :)? We can already tell he is some what a nut job:)[/quote]

Don’t worry, we can let those who vet Obama’s cabinet do the vetting. They did a marvelous job. [/quote]

I don’t think much different than McCain vetted Palin:)

25

[quote]pat wrote:
Do you really want to start a pissing contest on who is more violent and biggoted in there protests? Between peta, now, naral, greenpeace, etc. there’s a lot of low hanging fruit.

Is this your measuring stick on how to behave:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/violence-breaks.html

or this:
http://www.sierraclub.org/pressroom/releases/pr2003-08-25a.asp

or this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/six_degrees_of_liberal_racism.html

I guess we should follow your unsullied reputation for proper behavior. [/quote]

We could survey the T NATION to see if we have one memeber of those organizations

26

Attempts to slander the Tea Party movement aren’t exactly working:

[i]In official Washington, some consider the Tea Party movement a fringe element in society, but voters across the nation feel closer to the Tea Party movement than they do to Congress.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 52% of U.S. voters believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress. Only 30% believe that those in Congress have a better understanding of the key issues facing the nation.

When it comes to those issues, 47% think that their own political views are closer to those of the average Tea Party member than to the views of the average member of Congress. On this point, 26% feel closer to Congress.

Finally, 46% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is more ethical than the average member of Congress. Twenty-seven percent (27%) say that the average member of Congress is more ethical. [/i]

Instead of inventing and trying (desperately) to maintain a narrative that the Tea Party represents some modern version of the Klan, why not recognize for what it is and its appeal to the mainstream.

27

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I’ve been listening to the radio this morning and I just listened to a writer, John Avlon, talking about his latest book, Wingnuts: How the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America.[/quote]

I think what’s actually happened is that the far Left hijacked America many years ago and the “right of center, mainstream majority” is just waking up to it now. The author you speak of has probably lost his bearings due to said hijacking.

28

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Attempts to slander the Tea Party movement aren’t exactly working:

[i]In official Washington, some consider the Tea Party movement a fringe element in society, but voters across the nation feel closer to the Tea Party movement than they do to Congress.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 52% of U.S. voters believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress. Only 30% believe that those in Congress have a better understanding of the key issues facing the nation.

When it comes to those issues, 47% think that their own political views are closer to those of the average Tea Party member than to the views of the average member of Congress. On this point, 26% feel closer to Congress.

Finally, 46% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is more ethical than the average member of Congress. Twenty-seven percent (27%) say that the average member of Congress is more ethical. [/i]

Instead of inventing and trying (desperately) to maintain a narrative that the Tea Party represents some modern version of the Klan, why not recognize for what it is and its appeal to the mainstream.

[/quote]
I was gonna say, that must be a new poll at Rasmussen because I live over there and hadn’t seen it yet.

That’s encouraging in principle, but what it translates into at the polls is what matters. We have Sarah Palin who is the traveling darling of the Tea Party movement (A thing I was never enthusiastic about) and there she is endorsing McCain over Hayworth. MCCAIN!!! That king of the confused compromisers. I understand that she owes him, but I still see it as a miscalculation on her part and the Tea Party’s. Hayworth is far closer to what the Tea Party says it stands for. He was a blast when he was in the house. I used to love seeing him on C-Span.

In any case, you can tell when the left is intimidated by something by their ferocious condescending attacks.

29

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
In any case, you can tell when the left is intimidated by something by their ferocious condescending attacks.[/quote]

Absolutely.

30

I would like to have a frank exchange of political ideas on these boards but the quality of debate is very very poor. To some extent the nature of politics, to some extent representative of lack of control from the participants on both sides.

Edit: You know what, I reread this thread and this has been a rare example of the contrary (for the most part) Leaving the original as penance.

31

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

That’s encouraging in principle, but what it translates into at the polls is what matters. We have Sarah Palin who is the traveling darling of the Tea Party movement (A thing I was never enthusiastic about) and there she is endorsing McCain over Hayworth. MCCAIN!!! That king of the confused compromisers. I understand that she owes him, but I still see it as a miscalculation on her part and the Tea Party’s. Hayworth is far closer to what the Tea Party says it stands for. He was a blast when he was in the house. I used to love seeing him on C-Span.

.[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. The tea party crew is something I’d love to get behind, but when they’re taking orders from a party tool like Palin or Glenn Beck (who’s kinda ticketed me off for not sticking up for the brick throwers) then I can’t help but question the education and seriousness of a group that feels compelled to co-opt themselves with a bold move of badassery but disavow the brick-throwers to send tea-bags in the mail and carry cardboard pitchforks. What a joke.

mike

32

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

That’s encouraging in principle, but what it translates into at the polls is what matters. We have Sarah Palin who is the traveling darling of the Tea Party movement (A thing I was never enthusiastic about) and there she is endorsing McCain over Hayworth. MCCAIN!!! That king of the confused compromisers. I understand that she owes him, but I still see it as a miscalculation on her part and the Tea Party’s. Hayworth is far closer to what the Tea Party says it stands for. He was a blast when he was in the house. I used to love seeing him on C-Span.
.[/quote]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. The tea party crew is something I’d love to get behind, but when they’re taking orders from a party tool like Palin or Glenn Beck (who’s kinda ticketed me off for not sticking up for the brick throwers) then I can’t help but question the education and seriousness of a group that feels compelled to co-opt themselves with a bold move of badassery but disavow the brick-throwers to send tea-bags in the mail and carry cardboard pitchforks. What a joke.

mike[/quote]

You’re suggesting the Tea Party should condone acts of politically motivated vandalism?

33

[quote]skaz05 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
In any case, you can tell when the left is intimidated by something by their ferocious condescending attacks.[/quote]

Absolutely.[/quote]

They are talking back in the Viet nam era , you know those fucking hippies:)

34

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Instead of “not posting” and “not talking about it,” people from both sides should KEEP showing the other side these types of events/things. Do it right when they happen and have people actually denounce it. All too often both sides pretend that it’s only “the other side” or that “well…the other side is MUCH worse.” I think there should be more threads that point out the extremes of both sides to keep them on the periphery. If this doesn’t happen, one risks having, for example, Sarah Palin as a VP (or president).

Shit, look at the violence thread I started. People actually are denying that those events took place. Others are saying that violence against children “makes sense.” These people SHOULD be brought out in these type of conversations. They should be exposed and denounced.

In threads on PWI I’ve seen regular posters on this site advocate for mass deportations (from the USA) of Muslims. I’ve seen the worst kind of personal attacks leveled against homosexual posters. The list could go on and on. Why shouldn’t these type of people be brought to the front and ostracized? If it isn’t done from “the other side,” I don’t think it will ever be done.

BTW, IMO this is the value in FOX/MSNBC. When they go after the worst elements of “the other side,” they force change where otherwise there might not be change. [/quote]

Gambit, We all know eachother around here. What pray tell could I possibly GAIN by denouncing an OBVIOUS negative person or persona actions? What do you gain if I denounce it? Does it advance an idea or move our country foward? Look there may be a handful of retards here, but nearly everyone here has anough experience with eachother that we don’t gain anything by pointing out the obvious and then asking the other side to agree with us.

It’s like a group of adults are sitting around talking about how the weather has been so far this year and what it might be like and there is a little kid who keeps pointing to the sun. SUN! and he keeps saying it and making the adults look at it and acknowledge that the sun is out. “yes Timmy I see the sun”. And while the sun is in fact “on topic” if you are talking about weather, nobody needs to have the sun pointed out to them over and over, Unless you are 3.

V

35

The way I understand it his only leadership or even connection to the movement is self described. He is apparently just a random guy that claims to be a leader.

But is it really racist to use defamatory language against yourself? Is it racist just because it contains a word? The context of the sign doesn’t seem racist at all. He is in no way mocking or putting down a race of people.

I wouldn’t have chosen the wording because I think using the term is offensive, but I’m missing the racism.

36

The sign states:

Congress = Slave Owner
Taxpayer = N****r.

The sign being held does not appear to suggest some racist proclivity on the part of the sign holder but rather something else.

The sign holder’s views appear to be suggesting that congress is acting as a slave owner while it also views the taxpayers as n****rs, (i.e., slaves. His reference is utilizing the most familiar historical reference regarding slavery to the American mind) that is, as inferior humans who are, in the eyes of congress, justifiably subject to the confiscation of their labor just as slaves are subject to forced labor without compensation. Unfortunately, both political parties have participated and increased this type of slave owner mindset when enacting legislation for purposes of their own gain for many decades.

If one carefully examines the sign, it appears quite correct, if one is to take this interpretation of the sign (which, in my opinion, appears to be the correct one). As all are aware, slaves do not receive just compensation of their labor while working for a slave owner while also being forced into such a situation.

38

What happens if McCain loses to Hayworth anyway? Which I sincerely hope occurs and is looking more possible all the time. What would that say about Palin and by extension the Tea Party?

Talk about division and mixed messages. That is political cronyism plain and simple. No way to see it any other way and it flies in the face of everything the Tea Party purports to be about. John McCain IS exactly what’s wrong with the GOP.

It would have said something significant about her had she continued “going rogue” and politely told Johnny with all due respect that J.D. Hayworth is the better candidate. In fact it says something significant about her that she didn’t.

39

So after reading a couple of these threads, I’m left wondering if the Tea Party actually stands for anything but anger…

It seems like everyone who is involved has their own version of what the Tea Party is, or is not. Apparently no one I’ve seen on TV or in the streets represents the Tea Party, because it’s an individual thing, with a different meaning to everyone involved… right?

Anyone who has any beef with the government, right or left, could be part of the Tea Party movement, because it has no ethos at all, beyond being populated by people who have grievances with the government?

It’s clear, at least in part, what the movement stands against, but like the current Republican party, which (despite the Tea Party rhetoric), come November, the overwhelming majority of Tea Partiers will vote for.

FYI Saying it stands for fiscal conservatism means zilch. Everyone “stands” for fiscal conservatism, try and find a politician who doesn’t, people just disagree HOW the money should be spent, and HOW big the government should really be… there’s very little debate about whether long-term, spending more than you earn is a good thing. So spare us that.

40

I like to think that the Tea Party stand for a specific direction people want the country to move towards, regardless of the party in power.