More Abortion Talk

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
If you don’t want people to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated on the consequences of sex, and you don’t want them to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated, don’t want them to fuck, and deny them acces to birthcontrol; you’re irrational.

If you want a clump of cells to be more important than the rights of a fertile woman; you’re irrational.

Basically pat, your approach and mindset towards this issue is exactly the reason why the USA has so many abortions to begin with.

If you really want to reduce abortions start with this attitude. Only then something might change. But i doubt you, and those alike, are able [let alone willing] to make this change.

You’d rather have women incarcerated or put on a government watchlist than to change your opinion.

It boggles my mind.[/quote]

I don’t care if people fuck. I care if people are irresponsible and displace the consequences on others, in this case their child. I am saying, even if your careful, fucking can render children, if you cannot handle that fact, don’t fuck at least don’t fuck an orifice that has the capability to conceive human life. You can still get blow jobs, ass fucks, hand jobs, various fetishes, animals fucks and not get anything pregnant.

I want abortion to be illegal because killing people is illegal. Even in American law, killing the fetus outside of an abortion clinic, or a botched abortion where the baby comes out alive and is then killed is considered murder. The law is not consistent.
If abortion is to be legal I want it stated clearly that the law supports the taking of human life under certain circumstances. It would not make the act any better, but at least the law would be honest, which right now it is not.

Why was Scott Peterson convicted of double murder when on of the lives he took was his unborn son? Riddle me that. [/quote]

How do you feel if the mothers life was in danger and the only way to save the mothers life were to abort the fetus[/quote]

I already answered that, it is the only case for abortion. Ectopic pregnancies and such are the only circumstances where an abortion would be necessary. In these cases one or both lives will end if something isn’t done anyway. [/quote]

I understand it would be necessary , but would you consider it the right choice ? Please save me rereading to get the answer

102

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
If you don’t want people to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated on the consequences of sex, and you don’t want them to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated, don’t want them to fuck, and deny them acces to birthcontrol; you’re irrational.

If you want a clump of cells to be more important than the rights of a fertile woman; you’re irrational.

Basically pat, your approach and mindset towards this issue is exactly the reason why the USA has so many abortions to begin with.

If you really want to reduce abortions start with this attitude. Only then something might change. But i doubt you, and those alike, are able [let alone willing] to make this change.

You’d rather have women incarcerated or put on a government watchlist than to change your opinion.

It boggles my mind.[/quote]

I don’t care if people fuck. I care if people are irresponsible and displace the consequences on others, in this case their child. I am saying, even if your careful, fucking can render children, if you cannot handle that fact, don’t fuck at least don’t fuck an orifice that has the capability to conceive human life. You can still get blow jobs, ass fucks, hand jobs, various fetishes, animals fucks and not get anything pregnant.

I want abortion to be illegal because killing people is illegal. Even in American law, killing the fetus outside of an abortion clinic, or a botched abortion where the baby comes out alive and is then killed is considered murder. The law is not consistent.
If abortion is to be legal I want it stated clearly that the law supports the taking of human life under certain circumstances. It would not make the act any better, but at least the law would be honest, which right now it is not.

Why was Scott Peterson convicted of double murder when on of the lives he took was his unborn son? Riddle me that. [/quote]

Because it wasn’t his choice to make, that’s why.

Government sanctioned murder is commonplace. There’s no reason to make an exception for abortion at the detriment of over 100 million women in your country.

But anyway, i much rather stick to discussion religion and beliefs eventhough the likelyhood of having a normal conversation on that subject is also very, very slim.

Bonjour.
[/quote]
Well there’s like a thousand religious threads, hop on or make one of your own…

And if you want a rational, reasoned discussion about religion I am happy to oblige…If you want to shake you head at the fanatical lunatic fringe, keep talking to tirib, you’ll never squeeze a well thought out and reasoned response.

And as long as you agree that it’s murder, or at least taking of a human life, then we are not in disagreement except that I think it’s wrong in all cases and you think it’s ok in some.

103

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
If you don’t want people to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated on the consequences of sex, and you don’t want them to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated, don’t want them to fuck, and deny them acces to birthcontrol; you’re irrational.

If you want a clump of cells to be more important than the rights of a fertile woman; you’re irrational.

Basically pat, your approach and mindset towards this issue is exactly the reason why the USA has so many abortions to begin with.

If you really want to reduce abortions start with this attitude. Only then something might change. But i doubt you, and those alike, are able [let alone willing] to make this change.

You’d rather have women incarcerated or put on a government watchlist than to change your opinion.

It boggles my mind.[/quote]

I don’t care if people fuck. I care if people are irresponsible and displace the consequences on others, in this case their child. I am saying, even if your careful, fucking can render children, if you cannot handle that fact, don’t fuck at least don’t fuck an orifice that has the capability to conceive human life. You can still get blow jobs, ass fucks, hand jobs, various fetishes, animals fucks and not get anything pregnant.

I want abortion to be illegal because killing people is illegal. Even in American law, killing the fetus outside of an abortion clinic, or a botched abortion where the baby comes out alive and is then killed is considered murder. The law is not consistent.
If abortion is to be legal I want it stated clearly that the law supports the taking of human life under certain circumstances. It would not make the act any better, but at least the law would be honest, which right now it is not.

Why was Scott Peterson convicted of double murder when on of the lives he took was his unborn son? Riddle me that. [/quote]

How do you feel if the mothers life was in danger and the only way to save the mothers life were to abort the fetus[/quote]

I already answered that, it is the only case for abortion. Ectopic pregnancies and such are the only circumstances where an abortion would be necessary. In these cases one or both lives will end if something isn’t done anyway. [/quote]

I understand it would be necessary , but would you consider it the right choice ? Please save me rereading to get the answer[/quote]

Of course you’d have to take it on a case by case basis. But I don’t think you can call it right or wrong, it’s just a necessary evil. It would be wrong to let the mother die against her will. There’s only a wrong decision here, there is not an option for a right one.

104

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

Why was Scott Peterson convicted of double murder when on of the lives he took was his unborn son? Riddle me that. [/quote]

Conservatives pushed for the conviction so they could later use it as an argument against abortion.

Gosh I feel like Batman.[/quote]

Conservatives pushed for the conviction? LOL! He was tried in a court of law and found guilty. The judicial branch is not subject to public pressure.

You were kidding, right?[/quote]

Nah, it was a guess. I’m a conspiracy nut.

105

[quote]pat wrote:
If you don’t want to risk pregnancy don’t fuck, period. If you cannot handle the consequences of you actions, don’t do the action.
Abortion is the killing of a person…If women need to kill a person to get what they want, then no, I don’t give a flying ass fuck what they feel.

Abortion is the killing of a human being, if you want me to agree with an abortion, you have to prove it’s not a human life. Since it is impossible to prove something isn’t what it is you are on shaky ground.
Abortions can only be had if the mother’s life is in danger and/ or the child has no chance at life and jeopardizes the mothers life. In those cases there’s no choice, otherwise it’s a willful malicious act against the life of a person.

Yes, a zygote is human, don’t believe me? Run a DNA test on a zygote, if you get something other than a human, I’ll concede. Just because it doesn’t look like you think humans should look like, or isn’t the size you think humans should be, doesn’t mean it’s not human.
[/quote]

Again, no solution, just unrealistic expectations of human beings.

If you think people will stop fucking YOU ARE RETARDED.

Honestly, it must be draining to act as retarded as you have been in this thread.

HURR DURR PRO CHOICERS ARE TRYING TO FORCE EVERYONE TO HAVE ABORTIONS HURR

EDIT: You also seem to think this thread is about getting you to “agree” with abortion. It’s not. Learn to read you retard, it’s about finding a way to reduce the amount of abortions that fucking happen. Look at the damn math, if people were using contraception, and educated on how to use it properly, you wouldn’t have nearly as much abortion IN YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY as you do.

Are you saying that in the face of what you could realistically expect, at least halving the amount of abortions performed in the USA alone would be a bad thing? But right now nothing is happening - and it’s a consequence of YOUR inability to step up.

But no, it’s fine, as long as Pat has something to rail against, it’s OK if there is no resolution. Ever.

Idiot.

106

You go girl!

107

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks.

108

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
If you don’t want people to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated on the consequences of sex, and you don’t want them to fuck; you’re irrational.

If you don’t want people educated, don’t want them to fuck, and deny them acces to birthcontrol; you’re irrational.

If you want a clump of cells to be more important than the rights of a fertile woman; you’re irrational.

Basically pat, your approach and mindset towards this issue is exactly the reason why the USA has so many abortions to begin with.

If you really want to reduce abortions start with this attitude. Only then something might change. But i doubt you, and those alike, are able [let alone willing] to make this change.

You’d rather have women incarcerated or put on a government watchlist than to change your opinion.

It boggles my mind.[/quote]

I don’t care if people fuck. I care if people are irresponsible and displace the consequences on others, in this case their child. I am saying, even if your careful, fucking can render children, if you cannot handle that fact, don’t fuck at least don’t fuck an orifice that has the capability to conceive human life. You can still get blow jobs, ass fucks, hand jobs, various fetishes, animals fucks and not get anything pregnant.

I want abortion to be illegal because killing people is illegal. Even in American law, killing the fetus outside of an abortion clinic, or a botched abortion where the baby comes out alive and is then killed is considered murder. The law is not consistent.
If abortion is to be legal I want it stated clearly that the law supports the taking of human life under certain circumstances. It would not make the act any better, but at least the law would be honest, which right now it is not.

Why was Scott Peterson convicted of double murder when on of the lives he took was his unborn son? Riddle me that. [/quote]

How do you feel if the mothers life was in danger and the only way to save the mothers life were to abort the fetus[/quote]

I already answered that, it is the only case for abortion. Ectopic pregnancies and such are the only circumstances where an abortion would be necessary. In these cases one or both lives will end if something isn’t done anyway. [/quote]

I understand it would be necessary , but would you consider it the right choice ? Please save me rereading to get the answer[/quote]

Of course you’d have to take it on a case by case basis. But I don’t think you can call it right or wrong, it’s just a necessary evil. It would be wrong to let the mother die against her will. There’s only a wrong decision here, there is not an option for a right one.[/quote]

Thanks , I understand your point, I agree a Zygote is alive and it is human , but it is not a viable life until it can survive with out Mom’s consent

109

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks. [/quote]

Your ability to shut off your mind to anything that might only step towards your end goal instead of doing it all at once is astounding.

If you honestly think there is “that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception” then you are more naive than I could have ever imagined. And knowledge does not even begin to address access.

You seem to think complaining loudly will achieve something. Yet you close your mind to anything that might go what could be a significant way to stopping people using abortion as birth control in such vast numbers. Where is your solution? Do you have anything that doesn’t involve burying your head in the sand and sweeping the underlying issue into the back alleys?

Let’s also not ignore the fact that you also seem to think banning abortion and doing two key things will in fact be cheaper than easy access to contraception and education on their use. These two things are of course:

  1. Encouraging back alley abortions, increasing the odds of something going wrong and hospitalization and costing the tax payer.
  2. People on welfare having children and costing the taxpayer.

There is an astounding inability for either side to do anything. Pro-lifers scream about human life, but STILL do nothing about finding a realistic solution. You can scream until your turn purple about murder and how abortion should be banned, but you have not provided any realistic solution. You want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening.

Is it laziness?

110

Open your own eyes Mak and realize there is a country relatively close to you, they have banned abortion for over two decades ['89] and they seem to be doing just fine. Except the media would not tell everyone of s story that works. The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out. In case you couldn’t tell, banning abortion has worked!! You are one who rants that banning abortions wouldn’t work and we need a solution, yet the ban has worked! You still want to insist there is no way? Please tell me how this can be the case?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks. [/quote]

Your ability to shut off your mind to anything that might only step towards your end goal instead of doing it all at once is astounding.

If you honestly think there is “that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception” then you are more naive than I could have ever imagined. And knowledge does not even begin to address access.

You seem to think complaining loudly will achieve something. Yet you close your mind to anything that might go what could be a significant way to stopping people using abortion as birth control in such vast numbers. Where is your solution? Do you have anything that doesn’t involve burying your head in the sand and sweeping the underlying issue into the back alleys?

Let’s also not ignore the fact that you also seem to think banning abortion and doing two key things will in fact be cheaper than easy access to contraception and education on their use. These two things are of course:

  1. Encouraging back alley abortions, increasing the odds of something going wrong and hospitalization and costing the tax payer.
  2. People on welfare having children and costing the taxpayer.

There is an astounding inability for either side to do anything. Pro-lifers scream about human life, but STILL do nothing about finding a realistic solution. You can scream until your turn purple about murder and how abortion should be banned, but you have not provided any realistic solution. You want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening.

Is it laziness?[/quote]

111

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Open your own eyes Mak and realize there is a country relatively close to you, they have banned abortion for over two decades ['89] and they seem to be doing just fine. Except the media would not tell everyone of s story that works. The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out. In case you couldn’t tell, banning abortion has worked!! You are one who rants that banning abortions wouldn’t work and we need a solution, yet the ban has worked! You still want to insist there is no way? Please tell me how this can be the case?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks. [/quote]

Your ability to shut off your mind to anything that might only step towards your end goal instead of doing it all at once is astounding.

If you honestly think there is “that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception” then you are more naive than I could have ever imagined. And knowledge does not even begin to address access.

You seem to think complaining loudly will achieve something. Yet you close your mind to anything that might go what could be a significant way to stopping people using abortion as birth control in such vast numbers. Where is your solution? Do you have anything that doesn’t involve burying your head in the sand and sweeping the underlying issue into the back alleys?

Let’s also not ignore the fact that you also seem to think banning abortion and doing two key things will in fact be cheaper than easy access to contraception and education on their use. These two things are of course:

  1. Encouraging back alley abortions, increasing the odds of something going wrong and hospitalization and costing the tax payer.
  2. People on welfare having children and costing the taxpayer.

There is an astounding inability for either side to do anything. Pro-lifers scream about human life, but STILL do nothing about finding a realistic solution. You can scream until your turn purple about murder and how abortion should be banned, but you have not provided any realistic solution. You want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening.

Is it laziness?[/quote]
[/quote]

What country is that ?

112

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out.[/quote]

Um… lol?

Welcome to New Zealand?

[i]Current New Zealand law allows for abortions to be performed for the following reasons, providing the abortion is approved by two certifying consultants:

  • to save the life of the woman
  • to preserve the physical health of the woman
  • to preserve the mental health of the woman
  • foetal impairment
  • in cases of incest

Other factors which may be considered, but are not in themselves grounds for abortion, are:

  • cases of rape
  • certain social factors (e.g., the girl’s age in a teenage pregnancy).

Abortion is not allowed under any circumstances after 20 weeks of pregnancy except to save the woman’s life.[/i]

Holy shit dude, what did you think I was talking about when I said I am in favor of choice for abortion?

113

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
If you don’t want to risk pregnancy don’t fuck, period. If you cannot handle the consequences of you actions, don’t do the action.
Abortion is the killing of a person…If women need to kill a person to get what they want, then no, I don’t give a flying ass fuck what they feel.

Abortion is the killing of a human being, if you want me to agree with an abortion, you have to prove it’s not a human life. Since it is impossible to prove something isn’t what it is you are on shaky ground.
Abortions can only be had if the mother’s life is in danger and/ or the child has no chance at life and jeopardizes the mothers life. In those cases there’s no choice, otherwise it’s a willful malicious act against the life of a person.

Yes, a zygote is human, don’t believe me? Run a DNA test on a zygote, if you get something other than a human, I’ll concede. Just because it doesn’t look like you think humans should look like, or isn’t the size you think humans should be, doesn’t mean it’s not human.
[/quote]

Again, no solution, just unrealistic expectations of human beings.

If you think people will stop fucking YOU ARE RETARDED.

Honestly, it must be draining to act as retarded as you have been in this thread.

HURR DURR PRO CHOICERS ARE TRYING TO FORCE EVERYONE TO HAVE ABORTIONS HURR

EDIT: You also seem to think this thread is about getting you to “agree” with abortion. It’s not. Learn to read you retard, it’s about finding a way to reduce the amount of abortions that fucking happen. Look at the damn math, if people were using contraception, and educated on how to use it properly, you wouldn’t have nearly as much abortion IN YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY as you do.

Are you saying that in the face of what you could realistically expect, at least halving the amount of abortions performed in the USA alone would be a bad thing? But right now nothing is happening - and it’s a consequence of YOUR inability to step up.

But no, it’s fine, as long as Pat has something to rail against, it’s OK if there is no resolution. Ever.

Idiot.[/quote]

Keeping in mind that DIY/Back alley abortions actually increased after the Roe decision, and that abortions themselves have clearly increased to damned near unfathomable numbers, and then taking the numbers the Phaeton worked out above (that I never saw addressed at all, though they were more relevant to this thread than perhaps any other post, did I just miss the response?)…

…AND keeping in mind the fact that no one here has suggested that people will STOP fucking:

Do you actually believe that the criminalization of abortion is NOT a deterrent to casual and/or unprotected sex? I keep seeing the old human nature thing pop up. Well it works both ways, Indeed, psychologists have shown time and again that people will work to avoid pain BEFORE they will work to seek pleasure. You think the potential threat of going to jail, perhaps for life, for murdering another human being, is NOT going to reduce the amount irresponsible sex in America?

I am not offering the argument as a deterrent to casual sex, mind you. I honestly do not care what people do among themselves or to themselves. But when a third party is introduced and, like a criminal killing a witness to his crime, two people collude to murder that third, it is clearly unacceptable.

114

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Do you actually believe that the criminalization of abortion is NOT a deterrent to casual and/or unprotected sex?[/quote]

Consider how long it has been embedded in the collective mind of America that it is available and legal. Do you really think it’s going to go away after so long? You’ve had more than a generation with access to it, to take it away now is pretty much impossible. It’s not the fact that you see it as a deterrent, it’s the fact that it would be unrealistic to expect it to happen at all.

Yes, if it were illegal it would be a deterrent. But you have to get it illegal first, which won’t happen. It’s like trying to make alcohol or cigarettes illegal - it’s been part of society too long, you won’t be able to do it. And also like alcohol and cigarettes, the only way forward now is education.

115

Sorry pittbull but try to do some leg work yourself and then you will even learn something along the way. I am not trying to be a dick or anything but when you find the information on your own the point will be taken without being biased. At least that is my intent ; )

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Open your own eyes Mak and realize there is a country relatively close to you, they have banned abortion for over two decades ['89] and they seem to be doing just fine. Except the media would not tell everyone of s story that works. The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out. In case you couldn’t tell, banning abortion has worked!! You are one who rants that banning abortions wouldn’t work and we need a solution, yet the ban has worked! You still want to insist there is no way? Please tell me how this can be the case?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks. [/quote]

Your ability to shut off your mind to anything that might only step towards your end goal instead of doing it all at once is astounding.

If you honestly think there is “that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception” then you are more naive than I could have ever imagined. And knowledge does not even begin to address access.

You seem to think complaining loudly will achieve something. Yet you close your mind to anything that might go what could be a significant way to stopping people using abortion as birth control in such vast numbers. Where is your solution? Do you have anything that doesn’t involve burying your head in the sand and sweeping the underlying issue into the back alleys?

Let’s also not ignore the fact that you also seem to think banning abortion and doing two key things will in fact be cheaper than easy access to contraception and education on their use. These two things are of course:

  1. Encouraging back alley abortions, increasing the odds of something going wrong and hospitalization and costing the tax payer.
  2. People on welfare having children and costing the taxpayer.

There is an astounding inability for either side to do anything. Pro-lifers scream about human life, but STILL do nothing about finding a realistic solution. You can scream until your turn purple about murder and how abortion should be banned, but you have not provided any realistic solution. You want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening.

Is it laziness?[/quote]
[/quote]

What country is that ?[/quote]

116

Holy shit dude, do you have ALL the answers? Sorry only you think you do because you live on a tiny island and while there, you believe you have ALL the answers to everyones problems. Get the fuck over yourself LoL

  • The country I am referring to doesn’t allow an abortion just because a woman feels the need to preserve her mental health.
  • Ask impaired kids if they want to be dead? The children I know and see are some of the happiest sum bitches I have had the pleasure of interacting with.
  • So Dr.'s are always right? Oh wait they are human and therefore wrong often.
  • Incest is one area that would regrettably be justified, we can all agree on why.

So does NZ offer this magic pill you are trying to up-sell? Do they give all the kids free choice of contraception? With the education to back the dispersal?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out.[/quote]

Um… lol?

Welcome to New Zealand?

[i]Current New Zealand law allows for abortions to be performed for the following reasons, providing the abortion is approved by two certifying consultants:

  • to save the life of the woman
  • to preserve the physical health of the woman
  • to preserve the mental health of the woman
  • foetal impairment
  • in cases of incest

Other factors which may be considered, but are not in themselves grounds for abortion, are:

  • cases of rape
  • certain social factors (e.g., the girl’s age in a teenage pregnancy).

Abortion is not allowed under any circumstances after 20 weeks of pregnancy except to save the woman’s life.[/i]

Holy shit dude, what did you think I was talking about when I said I am in favor of choice for abortion?[/quote]

117

Alcohol and cigarettes are choices, are they not? So it is all about choice?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Consider how long it has been embedded in the collective mind of America that it is available and legal. Do you really think it’s going to go away after so long? You’ve had more than a generation with access to it, to take it away now is pretty much impossible. It’s not the fact that you see it as a deterrent, it’s the fact that it would be unrealistic to expect it to happen at all.

Yes, if it were illegal it would be a deterrent. But you have to get it illegal first, which won’t happen. It’s like trying to make alcohol or cigarettes illegal - it’s been part of society too long, you won’t be able to do it. And also like alcohol and cigarettes, the only way forward now is education.[/quote]

118

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Sorry pittbull but try to do some leg work yourself and then you will even learn something along the way. I am not trying to be a dick or anything but when you find the information on your own the point will be taken without being biased. At least that is my intent ; )

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Open your own eyes Mak and realize there is a country relatively close to you, they have banned abortion for over two decades ['89] and they seem to be doing just fine. Except the media would not tell everyone of s story that works. The only reason abortion would be allowed in this country, if the mother has a terminal reason AND there are two doctors who agree the child’s life needs to be snuffed out. In case you couldn’t tell, banning abortion has worked!! You are one who rants that banning abortions wouldn’t work and we need a solution, yet the ban has worked! You still want to insist there is no way? Please tell me how this can be the case?

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
This is the argument we seem to inevitably devolve into, we spend pages upon pages discussing what it is to be human, and no realistic solutions are provided.

We can all agree that reducing abortion rates would be a good thing - now how do we do it? Is there a better way than education and access to contraception?[/quote]

Let me guess, we need to spend a couple billion a year to find that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception. “Education.” Perhaps you mean mailing off a supply of rubbers to our children monthly, with instructions on alternative sex such as dry-humping.

You’re of the type who broke our moral culture in the first place. You’ve no real voice in this topic. You and the ephrems of the west have failed. You destroyed the family. You destroyed our demographic future. You destoyed communities of poor, and of the recently liberated. You destroyed prudence. You destroyed self-control. You destroyed public expectations and valuable social tools such as shame. Yet, you still think you have anything of any value to add? You’ve nothing to offer but vile and despicable ‘solutions’ to problems created by your own leftist claptrap. No thanks. [/quote]

Your ability to shut off your mind to anything that might only step towards your end goal instead of doing it all at once is astounding.

If you honestly think there is “that one 12 year old who hasn’t heard of contraception” then you are more naive than I could have ever imagined. And knowledge does not even begin to address access.

You seem to think complaining loudly will achieve something. Yet you close your mind to anything that might go what could be a significant way to stopping people using abortion as birth control in such vast numbers. Where is your solution? Do you have anything that doesn’t involve burying your head in the sand and sweeping the underlying issue into the back alleys?

Let’s also not ignore the fact that you also seem to think banning abortion and doing two key things will in fact be cheaper than easy access to contraception and education on their use. These two things are of course:

  1. Encouraging back alley abortions, increasing the odds of something going wrong and hospitalization and costing the tax payer.
  2. People on welfare having children and costing the taxpayer.

There is an astounding inability for either side to do anything. Pro-lifers scream about human life, but STILL do nothing about finding a realistic solution. You can scream until your turn purple about murder and how abortion should be banned, but you have not provided any realistic solution. You want to sweep it under the rug and pretend it’s not happening.

Is it laziness?[/quote]
[/quote]

What country is that ?[/quote]
[/quote]

Sorry , I will probably be myself :slight_smile:

119

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So it is all about choice? Alcohol and cigarettes are choices, are they not?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Consider how long it has been embedded in the collective mind of America that it is available and legal. Do you really think it’s going to go away after so long? You’ve had more than a generation with access to it, to take it away now is pretty much impossible. It’s not the fact that you see it as a deterrent, it’s the fact that it would be unrealistic to expect it to happen at all.

Yes, if it were illegal it would be a deterrent. But you have to get it illegal first, which won’t happen. It’s like trying to make alcohol or cigarettes illegal - it’s been part of society too long, you won’t be able to do it. And also like alcohol and cigarettes, the only way forward now is education.[/quote]
[/quote]

Yeah I’m done talking to you. You don’t want to read what I’ve written, you want to make assumptions to fit your own argument.

120

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
If you don’t want to risk pregnancy don’t fuck, period. If you cannot handle the consequences of you actions, don’t do the action.
Abortion is the killing of a person…If women need to kill a person to get what they want, then no, I don’t give a flying ass fuck what they feel.

Abortion is the killing of a human being, if you want me to agree with an abortion, you have to prove it’s not a human life. Since it is impossible to prove something isn’t what it is you are on shaky ground.
Abortions can only be had if the mother’s life is in danger and/ or the child has no chance at life and jeopardizes the mothers life. In those cases there’s no choice, otherwise it’s a willful malicious act against the life of a person.

Yes, a zygote is human, don’t believe me? Run a DNA test on a zygote, if you get something other than a human, I’ll concede. Just because it doesn’t look like you think humans should look like, or isn’t the size you think humans should be, doesn’t mean it’s not human.
[/quote]

Again, no solution, just unrealistic expectations of human beings.

If you think people will stop fucking YOU ARE RETARDED.

Honestly, it must be draining to act as retarded as you have been in this thread.

HURR DURR PRO CHOICERS ARE TRYING TO FORCE EVERYONE TO HAVE ABORTIONS HURR

EDIT: You also seem to think this thread is about getting you to “agree” with abortion. It’s not. Learn to read you retard, it’s about finding a way to reduce the amount of abortions that fucking happen. Look at the damn math, if people were using contraception, and educated on how to use it properly, you wouldn’t have nearly as much abortion IN YOUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY as you do.

Are you saying that in the face of what you could realistically expect, at least halving the amount of abortions performed in the USA alone would be a bad thing? But right now nothing is happening - and it’s a consequence of YOUR inability to step up.

But no, it’s fine, as long as Pat has something to rail against, it’s OK if there is no resolution. Ever.

Idiot.[/quote]

Keeping in mind that DIY/Back alley abortions actually increased after the Roe decision, and that abortions themselves have clearly increased to damned near unfathomable numbers, and then taking the numbers the Phaeton worked out above (that I never saw addressed at all, though they were more relevant to this thread than perhaps any other post, did I just miss the response?)…

…AND keeping in mind the fact that no one here has suggested that people will STOP fucking:

Do you actually believe that the criminalization of abortion is NOT a deterrent to casual and/or unprotected sex? I keep seeing the old human nature thing pop up. Well it works both ways, Indeed, psychologists have shown time and again that people will work to avoid pain BEFORE they will work to seek pleasure. You think the potential threat of going to jail, perhaps for life, for murdering another human being, is NOT going to reduce the amount irresponsible sex in America?

I am not offering the argument as a deterrent to casual sex, mind you. I honestly do not care what people do among themselves or to themselves. But when a third party is introduced and, like a criminal killing a witness to his crime, two people collude to murder that third, it is clearly unacceptable.

[/quote]

Where are these stats that back-alley abortions have increased since the legalization? Also, is it possible that they’ve increased because people are avoiding the no-choicers?