Moral Poverty Cost Blacks in New Orleans

[quote]vroom wrote:
The United States of America has an even more tremendous burden, Min. Farrakhan said. Estimates of the cost to ‘repair the damage (reparations)’ done to Blacks by America range as high as $9 trillion.

Cool…

Now, what part of that equates to paying people not to work? Does that come later? What is meant by “repairing the damage”? What in particular does Min Farrakhan say he means by that language?[/quote]

Well, if you were handed $258,826.10 (that you didn’t earn)would you work? That’s $9 trillion divided by 34,772,381 American Blacks (as per the 2004 census)

[quote]great421 wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
How can you all even begin to offer your opinion on things you know absolutely nothing about? I don’t care if you lived in the ghetto for a while. I don’t care if you have a black friend. If you are not of the black community, your opinions are of an outsider looking in and are not going to hold much water.

Ignoring the extreme logical holes in the above, emotionally charged, statement (i.e. - “You can’t understand me or my situation because you’re not exactly like me” - This presupposes the inability to think or comprehend right from wrong on the part of the “outsider”); I will freely and willingly walk down your logical “rabbit trail” and ask you the $64k question - “How do you make things right?” (And most importantly) “What is your definition of right?”

Please understand, I ask this in ernest; “What would you do to make things right?”

MIKE [/quote]

I never questioned yours or anyone else’s ability to think or comprehend right from wrong. I love how people like you try to belittle statements by looking for logical holes in a statement and take part of what is said to support your logic. It is easy to sit back and try to use logic to solve a problem that you believe you understand when all you see is the surface of that problem.

However, what I said is offering suggestions on how to fix something when you have no concept on how deep it is broken will fall on deaf ears. You will not be effective because you do not have any personal understanding of the nuances of the group of people you are trying to fix. It’s like trying to tell a mother who is giving birth how her contractions feel. If you’ve never done it, you can’t tell her anything (I dare you to do that and see if she doesn’t try to rip your nuts off).

I do not have all the answers to make it right and I never said I did. What I said was I am tired of hearing quick fix suggestions from ultra-conservative whites and self-hating blacks that are really trying to keep this conflict going while they cash in on it. Also, I think that even asking a question like that is an attempt to try to dismiss the actual issue of mistreatment of minorities in this country. Furthermore, by saying that the statement is emotionally charged, it is either a further attempt to dismiss what I am saying or a true lack of understanding of how many blacks feel in this country. Which is why outsiders shouldn’t be telling blacks how to solve their problems. You don’t see blacks in this country trying tell Native Americans how to fix their problems, because we know better than to tell them that.

However, I will at least give a starting suggestion on how to fix this, since this is what you were looking for anyway. The biggest step would be for the Federal Government to fully admit to the American People (not fly over to Africa and apologize to them for slavery in the USA) that many of these problems in the black community are a direct result of the government’s mistreatment of minorities and make a sincere public apology. That would never happen because there are too many people in this country that believe that this isn’t true and that blacks in this country are solely responsible for all their problems. While we are responsible for many of them, the bigger ones (inadequate underfunded schools, underfunded living areas, cutting of programs designed to help the less fortunate etc.) are the failure of the government system that is “for the people, by the people”, not just certain people. Once that is done, then maybe a true meaningful dialog can take place and other things will fall into place. I won’t hold my breath though.

Mike, I am not trying to rip on you, it is just that I have seen these things you’ve said before from many other people. It gets frustrating to discuss things with people that will never understand because they do not possess the experiences to understand. Mind you, it is only an assumption based on what you wrote. You could very well have these experiences and I just don’t know it.

I am jumping off my soapbox now.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
Gregus wrote:

Most of what the black community has had to deal with is themselves. I lived in one and went to school in a 80% black high school. As a European white boy i saw that Blacks are their own worst enemies, it’s that simple. It’s like watching the black people conspire together to keep each other down. I can’t tell you how many times one of the black guys would do something like his homework or speak up in class only to have the WHOLE class of black students laugh like they’re in audience of the Def Comedy Jam. Every bro that tried to be smarter was met with very vocal put downs from his buds. I can’t even begin to tell you how much of a porblem this is. You would have to live in the ghetto yourself for a while to get the full experience.

Your fat friend example you used is a good one. She is LAZY pure and simple. Too lazy to want to loose weight in the first place. She’s happy being lazy and likes the attention her bitching gives her and allows her to happily wallow in her fat laziness. LAZY!!!

Just about every immigrant that came here, came from an opressive regime. You think it’s easy for Eastern Europeans?

You porpably don’t think that we came here from communist regimes that would arrest people at night and take them away for weeks for speaking up.

You don’t realise that fathers would be taken for voicing criticism of the
regime.

You don’t realise that mases of people would be shipped to slave labor camps.

You don’t realise teachers would be eecuted for being too intelligent.

You don’t realise that something like a Rodney King Beating happened every night in every city.

And you also don’t realise that we were made to live in a system that allowed you to own nothing. Everything was government owned. We had no opportunity to even make more money then what was rationed for you particular “job”

Please, i have a ton of excuses to use if i want to. I won’t even get on a tangent of talking about the atrocities of having millions of my people be forced to build then burn inside the walls of a concentration camp so as to make my culture extinct… And i’m not Jewish even.

Yet we’ve made no excuses, never used our hardships as excuses. We kept it inside of us and worked through the shame of scrubbing someone elses toilets and we made it. You just have to want to suceeed, you have to be motivated and not lazy. Pure and simple. Don’t confuse the issue with pshycho blabber of this and that, it’s all too much talking. If a person wants to suceed thay have to work and work hard for a long time.

Anyone can look at my mother on the tennis court and can think this i a wealthy lady. What a nice life of leisure she has. How little do they know, how little do they know indeed…It was knuckles to the bone work.

People stop making excuses for lazy peole. It just keeps them lazy.

I am not even going to begin to tell you how completely asinine your comparison is of what your people went through in your home country to what has been done to systematically destroy those of African heritage in THIS COUNTRY for the last 400 years and counting.

Furthermore, I am not going to get into a discussion on the differences of CHOOSING to come to this country (or escaping your home country) as a free WHITE person, with all of your culture and heritage intact and being dragged over here in chains and having your culture and heritage being stripped from you by one of the most inhumane systems in existence and how that has affected African-Americans to this day.

I also am not going to discuss how the negative stereotypes of African-Americans in this country is what shapes the mainstream’s perceptions of all African-American. We all get lumped into the perception, regardless if we do or don’t fit into it. Every image that is given of black people in this country portrays us in a negative light. I am not talking about just the ones where we are taken away in handcuffs (which are too numerous to mention). Look at Sports Illustrated and see when a black person is on the cover, they are usually looking fierce, mean and violent. When a white person is on the cover, they are posed like some Greek god. While I’m glad to see that black person on the cover, subtle things like this have been going on for many years and has had a negative impact on the black community.

What I am going to do is applaud your family for surviving some of the harshest conditions known and coming to this country and making good. We will hopefully never have to deal with that in our lifetime. No matter how anyone feels about this topic, your family have done things right with hard work.

However, for you and all of my caucasian friends out there regardless of where you came from, until you can switch color and walk in this country as a black person, your comments like these will always be viewed as ignorant and racist. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Am I making excuses for people being lazy? No. What I am saying is that it is far more complicated than people being lazy and sweeping blanket statements like “They are just lazy!” shows how truly ignorant you are to what has been going on in this country.

I am not using the word ignorant as an insult. I am using it as the definition of “lacking knowledge”. Please do not take it as an insult. This is by no fault of your own. You couldn’t know because you are not part of that community. You could no more know what it is like being black in this country than any man would know about giving birth.

Just as a side note, I was that black kid in class being made fun of for being studious. I was that black kid that had to fight people because I was smarter than them on something (I got good at fighting because of it). But did I become a self-hating black person? No. I knew that many times it was fear that drove them. They were more scared of me than I ever was of them because I showed them that we could be better than that. I eventually earned their respect because they saw that I was doing the right things and good things were happening to me. Many of the same guys that initally gave me a hard time became my protectors because they wanted to see someone do well. Maybe it made them feel good to elevate one of their own. Thing is though, people like you would never know this because you are on the outside looking in.[/quote]

So what you’re saying is that undetered you kept on working . You persevered where you could have rolled over and died. You worked, worked, worked and it payed off. Thank you for proving the point i was trying to make.

Thanks also for the compliment on my familys sucess.

Look, i never would presume to tell a black person what it is to be black. But you’re wrong to think that i can’t relate. It’s a little ignorant in fact and you’re judging and trivializing the the events and tribulations of another culture as uncomparable to yours. This is wrong, pure and simple. Blacks are not the only ones carrying burdens and the issue if lazines is referred to by me toward many youth, in this case it’s the people of NO. Now are there other facotrs that decide and push a person into powerty? OFCOURSE there are. It’s never that simple.

But to all able bodied young men living in NO. If have 2 arms, are on welfare and decide there’s jobs that are beneath you or that you can make more off welfare you need a kick in the ass to get a move on and start building your futures. I’m sadened by generations of lost blacks even till this day. The black culture is so rich with talent and captbilities that it almost puts me to tears to see life’s wasted on sitting around in hatred doing NOTHING… And God forbid Jessy Jackson would dare give an empowering speach of inspiration to move forward and educate… No discontent is the main message. It keeps an entire race doing…Nothing. Very sad and again i would not want your burden.

A less open minded person could label you as a racist for judging someone on the percieved color of their skin and you thinking:
“how does he knoe what he’s talking about, he’s not black, look at him he’s white”.

Also don’t group me with your white friends because i can assure you it’s as silly a mistake as it would be for me to group you with some thugz that i may have as friends because you’re black when in reality your an individual with a name and uniqness matched by none, and i’m sure you have name and not just a black face, see where i’m getting?

Your comments on the portrayal of Black people in the media is a little off. Did it ever cross your mind that the black athletes on the cover of a magazine want to look mean? Is it impossible for the given althelete to get a kick of being portrayed as a beast? To like looking tough? Don’t read into silly pictures as it always becomes a case of seeing what you want to see. Those athletes are highly paid professionals and they create the image that suits them, pure and simple.

Next.

You may be an educated man, but true enlightement may be right around the corner. It will start when you stop seeing color as a deciding factor in your subconscious propagation of thought processes as to what a person may be capable of understanding, their empathasing and spirit. Truly you don’t know me, my troubles or spirit…

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
vroom wrote:
The United States of America has an even more tremendous burden, Min. Farrakhan said. Estimates of the cost to ‘repair the damage (reparations)’ done to Blacks by America range as high as $9 trillion.

Cool…

Now, what part of that equates to paying people not to work? Does that come later? What is meant by “repairing the damage”? What in particular does Min Farrakhan say he means by that language?

Well, if you were handed $258,826.10 (that you didn’t earn)would you work? That’s $9 trillion divided by 34,772,381 American Blacks (as per the 2004 census)

[/quote]

There have been some that have called for reparations, but have any been paid to anyone for being black or related to former slaves? I don’t think so and I don’t think there ever will be.

And, before someone brings up welfare there are whites and others on welfare as well. We are talking the sole purpose of reparations for being from black slave bloodlines.

Ahahahahahaha! Oh, so you think the government is going to write up a big old check personally to every black person in order to implement this?

LMFAO!

I was thinking maybe there might be money earmarked for college tuition (going to those that have already demonstrated the ability to work and learn), partial loan guarantees to banks providing mortgages (going to those that are on the verge of qualifying for a home loan via establishment of good credit), partial loan guarantees to banks providing business loans (going to those that are on the verge of qualifying for these based on creation of a business or suitable business plan) and other suitable initiatives to encourage the uplight of huge segments of our society.

Also, notice the “partial” loan guarantees, such that there is not an incentive on behalf of banks to make extremely crappy investments – as it will end up costing them money. It would allow them to make somewhat riskier investments though.

Also notice that these initiatives don’t put money into anyones hands, but they certainly do give people an increased ability to put money into their own hands as a reward for their efforts.

I know it doesn’t seem “fair” to whitey (which of course includes me), but it is damned needed. Also, you have to keep in mind that creating many thousands of new businesses and allowing many thousands of new home purchases will have a huge impact on the economy, benefit everyone, including whitey.

This isn’t a zero sum game. Let’s get everyone participating in the economic game and watch those taxes roll on in!!!

[P.S. Right wing cheerleaders, this is an example of a liberal with a fucking idea… pay attention!]

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.
[/quote]

How was the Civil War equivalent to reparations? The Civil War just released the slaves. They were not all paid money or the “40 acres and a mule” they were promised. And those that were paid were later systematically stripped of any accomplishments that they gained. Do you have any idea of how many black founded towns were wiped out because of government intervention? Do you have any idea of how many blacks were stripped of land they rightfully owned because of the laws that were enacted by the government? It is not just about what has happened during slavery, that was just the starting point.

I already told you that I thought this is a dumb idea for that very reason. However, this should not absolve the government from any wrongdoing. At least admit the wrongdoing first. Publically and without any spin.

Times have definitely changed, but to say racism didn’t hold power and affect people until recent years is preposterous.

My mother has relayed to me how during her early school years in Walsenburg Colorado, guidance counselors directed the kids of Mexican American descent to go into fields such as house cleaning, porters, labor, and were actively discouraged from entering higher learning.

Fortunately my mother didn’t allow that to stop her and graduated with honors from CU with her Masters Degree, but how many kids did this negatively hamper?

My uncles were telling me the other day how again the kids of Mexican American descent were literally physically hit… punched… in class for the most minor perceived transgressions and that the anglo kids didn’t receive that kind of brutality. These were not illegal aliens, but kids born here in the USA.

Now granted this happened during the fifties and sixties, but to say this kind of negative treatment didn’t affect a group of people is wrong.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
I never questioned yours or anyone else’s ability to think or comprehend right from wrong. I love how people like you try to belittle statements by looking for logical holes in a statement and take part of what is said to support your logic. It is easy to sit back and try to use logic to solve a problem that you believe you understand when all you see is the surface of that problem.

However, what I said is offering suggestions on how to fix something when you have no concept on how deep it is broken will fall on deaf ears. You will not be effective because you do not have any personal understanding of the nuances of the group of people you are trying to fix. It’s like trying to tell a mother who is giving birth how her contractions feel. If you’ve never done it, you can’t tell her anything (I dare you to do that and see if she doesn’t try to rip your nuts off).
[/quote]
Which is what makes Rev. Peterson’s argument powerful, because he is an “insider”. Why do you label him a self-hating black? Because he advocates personal responsibility, & critizes those who don’t? Is it because he points out things in popular culture that glorify fatherless, welfare dependand families? Because he refuses to accept excuses, and points out that everyone is ultimately responsibe for their own lot in life, regardless of the hardships they face?

[quote]
I do not have all the answers to make it right and I never said I did. What I said was I am tired of hearing quick fix suggestions from ultra-conservative whites and self-hating blacks that are really trying to keep this conflict going while they cash in on it. Also, I think that even asking a question like that is an attempt to try to dismiss the actual issue of mistreatment of minorities in this country. Furthermore, by saying that the statement is emotionally charged, it is either a further attempt to dismiss what I am saying or a true lack of understanding of how many blacks feel in this country. Which is why outsiders shouldn’t be telling blacks how to solve their problems. You don’t see blacks in this country trying tell Native Americans how to fix their problems, because we know better than to tell them that.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.
[/quote]

Oh, how about for the Tuskeegee experiment? That wasn’t even that many years ago and some of those people are still alive. You did know about this, right? This is another one of those things where we have experienced the exact same things as every other race, isn’t it? This just ended in the late 70’s and early 80’s, by the way. Not one President until Clinton even gave an apology for it.

Can we at least give these families reparations? Is that considered “not working” as well?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Well, if you were handed $258,826.10 (that you didn’t earn)would you work? That’s $9 trillion divided by 34,772,381 American Blacks (as per the 2004 census)

Ahahahahahaha! Oh, so you think the government is going to write up a big old check personally to every black person in order to implement this?

LMFAO! [/quote] As opposed to letting the gov’t fuck it up? yeah. [quote]

I was thinking maybe there might be money earmarked for college tuition (going to those that have already demonstrated the ability to work and learn), partial loan guarantees to banks providing mortgages (going to those that are on the verge of qualifying for a home loan via establishment of good credit), partial loan guarantees to banks providing business loans (going to those that are on the verge of qualifying for these based on creation of a business or suitable business plan) and other suitable initiatives to encourage the uplight of huge segments of our society.
[/quote]

Hmm, handing out loans & college tuition based on the color of someone’s skin. There’s word for that isn’t there? Racism maybe. [quote]

Also, notice the “partial” loan guarantees, such that there is not an incentive on behalf of banks to make extremely crappy investments – as it will end up costing them money. It would allow them to make somewhat riskier investments though.

Also notice that these initiatives don’t put money into anyones hands, but they certainly do give people an increased ability to put money into their own hands as a reward for their efforts. [/quote]

You mean like giving minority owned businesses priority in awarding gov’t contracts? We already do that. You mean like giving special low interest loans to businesses in inner city neighborhoods? We already do that. [quote]

I know it doesn’t seem “fair” to whitey (which of course includes me), but it is damned needed. Also, you have to keep in mind that creating many thousands of new businesses and allowing many thousands of new home purchases will have a huge impact on the economy, benefit everyone, including whitey.[/quote]

Just another way to re-distribute wealth. [quote]

This isn’t a zero sum game. Let’s get everyone participating in the economic game and watch those taxes roll on in!!!

[P.S. Right wing cheerleaders, this is an example of a liberal with a fucking idea… pay attention!][/quote]

And a really bad one at that.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
great421 wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
How can you all even begin to offer your opinion on things you know absolutely nothing about? I don’t care if you lived in the ghetto for a while. I don’t care if you have a black friend. If you are not of the black community, your opinions are of an outsider looking in and are not going to hold much water.

Ignoring the extreme logical holes in the above, emotionally charged, statement (i.e. - “You can’t understand me or my situation because you’re not exactly like me” - This presupposes the inability to think or comprehend right from wrong on the part of the “outsider”); I will freely and willingly walk down your logical “rabbit trail” and ask you the $64k question - “How do you make things right?” (And most importantly) “What is your definition of right?”

Please understand, I ask this in ernest; “What would you do to make things right?”

MIKE

I never questioned yours or anyone else’s ability to think or comprehend right from wrong. I love how people like you try to belittle statements by looking for logical holes in a statement and take part of what is said to support your logic. It is easy to sit back and try to use logic to solve a problem that you believe you understand when all you see is the surface of that problem.

However, what I said is offering suggestions on how to fix something when you have no concept on how deep it is broken will fall on deaf ears. You will not be effective because you do not have any personal understanding of the nuances of the group of people you are trying to fix. It’s like trying to tell a mother who is giving birth how her contractions feel. If you’ve never done it, you can’t tell her anything (I dare you to do that and see if she doesn’t try to rip your nuts off).

I do not have all the answers to make it right and I never said I did. What I said was I am tired of hearing quick fix suggestions from ultra-conservative whites and self-hating blacks that are really trying to keep this conflict going while they cash in on it. Also, I think that even asking a question like that is an attempt to try to dismiss the actual issue of mistreatment of minorities in this country. Furthermore, by saying that the statement is emotionally charged, it is either a further attempt to dismiss what I am saying or a true lack of understanding of how many blacks feel in this country. Which is why outsiders shouldn’t be telling blacks how to solve their problems. You don’t see blacks in this country trying tell Native Americans how to fix their problems, because we know better than to tell them that.

However, I will at least give a starting suggestion on how to fix this, since this is what you were looking for anyway. The biggest step would be for the Federal Government to fully admit to the American People (not fly over to Africa and apologize to them for slavery in the USA) that many of these problems in the black community are a direct result of the government’s mistreatment of minorities and make a sincere public apology. That would never happen because there are too many people in this country that believe that this isn’t true and that blacks in this country are solely responsible for all their problems. While we are responsible for many of them, the bigger ones (inadequate underfunded schools, underfunded living areas, cutting of programs designed to help the less fortunate etc.) are the failure of the government system that is “for the people, by the people”, not just certain people. Once that is done, then maybe a true meaningful dialog can take place and other things will fall into place. I won’t hold my breath though.

Mike, I am not trying to rip on you, it is just that I have seen these things you’ve said before from many other people. It gets frustrating to discuss things with people that will never understand because they do not possess the experiences to understand. Mind you, it is only an assumption based on what you wrote. You could very well have these experiences and I just don’t know it.

I am jumping off my soapbox now.[/quote]

Black schools are not underfunded because of the government. They’re underfunded because the same attitude you had to endure from your own peers when you tried to educate yourself.

That’s where it starts. Slavery was unfortunate and dead wrong. God bless all who lived that tortured life.

But how come you can’t realise that slavery has been present in the world for thousands of years. Even before the white man. It was common practice by the entire world, the white man got plugged in this system. Honestly i’m not rying to trivialise, but how many blacks owned slaves themselves in foreign countires? How may blacks kings sold out neghboring tribes to be used as curreny? Those were the attitudes of the times, screwed up attitudes needing of serious evolution, but they were the attitudes of the time none the less.

Could you even consider giving any credit for ending slavery? Worldwide? The white man was the first one to end slavery and declare it illegal anywhere he could influence. Why are whites always labeled as slavers when it was not the case at all. Your thoughts on this topic PARTLY not wholly betray your misguded indoctrination into hatred and seeing only the parts of the picture you want to see.

Let me ask you a question and please answer when you bring this out to it’s most final conclusion.

What does a sad and bitter victim mentality accomplish for a black person?

my answer: Nothing. And nothing is what the cancer known as bitterness will let you accomplish.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
What does a sad and bitter victim mentality accomplish for a black person?

my answer: Nothing. And nothing is what the cancer known as bitterness will let you accomplish.[/quote]

Ridiculous statement. It only holds truth if the victim is no longer dealing with any outward affliction. It is like telling a rape victim, who still gets raped occasionally, to get over it. It is something you don’t understand because you refuse to understand it. It isn’t that it is beyond your capability.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.

Oh, how about for the Tuskeegee experiment? That wasn’t even that many years ago and some of those people are still alive. You did know about this, right? This is another one of those things where we have experienced the exact same things as every otehr race, isn’t it? This just ended in the late 70’s and early 870’s, by the way. Not one President until Clinton even gave an apology for it.

Can we at least give these families reparations? Is that considered “not working” as well?[/quote]

No, that was wrong. Dead wrong. Apologies by the government need to be made. Reparations for those crimes are due fair and square. i just don’t see it any other way.

On a side note. No need for the sarcasm of saying it’s the same thing we expericed like any other race. Lest you forget the mass genocide exterminations and wholesale industrial scale extermination done to millions by the Germans. Just try to imagine how a Polish person feels on a visit to German y when in his or her lifetime they witnessed their family be put into an over still breathing only because they were considered unfit to occupy a place on this Planet. There are many that carry burdens Prof, too many.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:

The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.

How was the Civil War equivalent to reparations? [/quote]
360,000 union soldiers gave their life to free the slaves, which IMO goes a LONG way towards reparation

How is any of that relevant to today’s inner city youth? What has the gov’t done to anyone alive today that justifies reparations? [quote]

I already told you that I thought this is a dumb idea for that very reason. However, this should not absolve the government from any wrongdoing. At least admit the wrongdoing first. Publically and without any spin.[/quote]

I don’t understand how an apology (deserved or not) will help things. Will it make inner city youth “feel better” so now they can get off welfare and become productive members of society? By the way, Clinton did apologize for slavery. Into Africa - April 6, 1998

[quote]Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.

Oh, how about for the Tuskeegee experiment? That wasn’t even that many years ago and some of those people are still alive. You did know about this, right? This is another one of those things where we have experienced the exact same things as every other race, isn’t it? This just ended in the late 70’s and early 80’s, by the way. Not one President until Clinton even gave an apology for it.

Can we at least give these families reparations? Is that considered “not working” as well?[/quote]

I’d support that 100%.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Ridiculous statement. It only holds truth if the victim is no longer dealing with any outward affliction. It is like telling a rape victim, who still gets raped occasionally, to get over it. It is something you don’t understand because you refuse to understand it. It isn’t that it is beyond your capability.[/quote]

No, it’s perfectly valid. If sombody is disciminated against tody, there is a legal remedy for it. Using your anology, how are blacks be “raped” by the gov’t today?

[quote]Gregus wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
Gregus wrote:

Most of what the black community has had to deal with is themselves. I lived in one and went to school in a 80% black high school. As a European white boy i saw that Blacks are their own worst enemies, it’s that simple. It’s like watching the black people conspire together to keep each other down. I can’t tell you how many times one of the black guys would do something like his homework or speak up in class only to have the WHOLE class of black students laugh like they’re in audience of the Def Comedy Jam. Every bro that tried to be smarter was met with very vocal put downs from his buds. I can’t even begin to tell you how much of a porblem this is. You would have to live in the ghetto yourself for a while to get the full experience.

Your fat friend example you used is a good one. She is LAZY pure and simple. Too lazy to want to loose weight in the first place. She’s happy being lazy and likes the attention her bitching gives her and allows her to happily wallow in her fat laziness. LAZY!!!

Just about every immigrant that came here, came from an opressive regime. You think it’s easy for Eastern Europeans?

You porpably don’t think that we came here from communist regimes that would arrest people at night and take them away for weeks for speaking up.

You don’t realise that fathers would be taken for voicing criticism of the
regime.

You don’t realise that mases of people would be shipped to slave labor camps.

You don’t realise teachers would be eecuted for being too intelligent.

You don’t realise that something like a Rodney King Beating happened every night in every city.

And you also don’t realise that we were made to live in a system that allowed you to own nothing. Everything was government owned. We had no opportunity to even make more money then what was rationed for you particular “job”

Please, i have a ton of excuses to use if i want to. I won’t even get on a tangent of talking about the atrocities of having millions of my people be forced to build then burn inside the walls of a concentration camp so as to make my culture extinct… And i’m not Jewish even.

Yet we’ve made no excuses, never used our hardships as excuses. We kept it inside of us and worked through the shame of scrubbing someone elses toilets and we made it. You just have to want to suceeed, you have to be motivated and not lazy. Pure and simple. Don’t confuse the issue with pshycho blabber of this and that, it’s all too much talking. If a person wants to suceed thay have to work and work hard for a long time.

Anyone can look at my mother on the tennis court and can think this i a wealthy lady. What a nice life of leisure she has. How little do they know, how little do they know indeed…It was knuckles to the bone work.

People stop making excuses for lazy peole. It just keeps them lazy.

I am not even going to begin to tell you how completely asinine your comparison is of what your people went through in your home country to what has been done to systematically destroy those of African heritage in THIS COUNTRY for the last 400 years and counting.

Furthermore, I am not going to get into a discussion on the differences of CHOOSING to come to this country (or escaping your home country) as a free WHITE person, with all of your culture and heritage intact and being dragged over here in chains and having your culture and heritage being stripped from you by one of the most inhumane systems in existence and how that has affected African-Americans to this day.

I also am not going to discuss how the negative stereotypes of African-Americans in this country is what shapes the mainstream’s perceptions of all African-American. We all get lumped into the perception, regardless if we do or don’t fit into it. Every image that is given of black people in this country portrays us in a negative light. I am not talking about just the ones where we are taken away in handcuffs (which are too numerous to mention). Look at Sports Illustrated and see when a black person is on the cover, they are usually looking fierce, mean and violent. When a white person is on the cover, they are posed like some Greek god. While I’m glad to see that black person on the cover, subtle things like this have been going on for many years and has had a negative impact on the black community.

What I am going to do is applaud your family for surviving some of the harshest conditions known and coming to this country and making good. We will hopefully never have to deal with that in our lifetime. No matter how anyone feels about this topic, your family have done things right with hard work.

However, for you and all of my caucasian friends out there regardless of where you came from, until you can switch color and walk in this country as a black person, your comments like these will always be viewed as ignorant and racist. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Am I making excuses for people being lazy? No. What I am saying is that it is far more complicated than people being lazy and sweeping blanket statements like “They are just lazy!” shows how truly ignorant you are to what has been going on in this country.

I am not using the word ignorant as an insult. I am using it as the definition of “lacking knowledge”. Please do not take it as an insult. This is by no fault of your own. You couldn’t know because you are not part of that community. You could no more know what it is like being black in this country than any man would know about giving birth.

Just as a side note, I was that black kid in class being made fun of for being studious. I was that black kid that had to fight people because I was smarter than them on something (I got good at fighting because of it). But did I become a self-hating black person? No. I knew that many times it was fear that drove them. They were more scared of me than I ever was of them because I showed them that we could be better than that. I eventually earned their respect because they saw that I was doing the right things and good things were happening to me. Many of the same guys that initally gave me a hard time became my protectors because they wanted to see someone do well. Maybe it made them feel good to elevate one of their own. Thing is though, people like you would never know this because you are on the outside looking in.

So what you’re saying is that undetered you kept on working . You persevered where you could have rolled over and died. You worked, worked, worked and it payed off. Thank you for proving the point i was trying to make.

Thanks also for the compliment on my familys sucess.

Look, i never would presume to tell a black person what it is to be black. But you’re wrong to think that i can’t relate. It’s a little ignorant in fact and you’re judging and trivializing the the events and tribulations of another culture as uncomparable to yours. This is wrong, pure and simple. Blacks are not the only ones carrying burdens and the issue if lazines is referred to by me toward many youth, in this case it’s the people of NO. Now are there other facotrs that decide and push a person into powerty? OFCOURSE there are. It’s never that simple.

But to all able bodied young men living in NO. If have 2 arms, are on welfare and decide there’s jobs that are beneath you or that you can make more off welfare you need a kick in the ass to get a move on and start building your futures. I’m sadened by generations of lost blacks even till this day. The black culture is so rich with talent and captbilities that it almost puts me to tears to see life’s wasted on sitting around in hatred doing NOTHING… And God forbid Jessy Jackson would dare give an empowering speach of inspiration to move forward and educate… No discontent is the main message. It keeps an entire race doing…Nothing. Very sad and again i would not want your burden.

A less open minded person could label you as a racist for judging someone on the percieved color of their skin and you thinking:
“how does he knoe what he’s talking about, he’s not black, look at him he’s white”.

Also don’t group me with your white friends because i can assure you it’s as silly a mistake as it would be for me to group you with some thugz that i may have as friends because you’re black when in reality your an individual with a name and uniqness matched by none, and i’m sure you have name and not just a black face, see where i’m getting?

Your comments on the portrayal of Black people in the media is a little off. Did it ever cross your mind that the black athletes on the cover of a magazine want to look mean? Is it impossible for the given althelete to get a kick of being portrayed as a beast? To like looking tough? Don’t read into silly pictures as it always becomes a case of seeing what you want to see. Those athletes are highly paid professionals and they create the image that suits them, pure and simple.

Next.

You may be an educated man, but true enlightement may be right around the corner. It will start when you stop seeing color as a deciding factor in your subconscious propagation of thought processes as to what a person may be capable of understanding, their empathasing and spirit. Truly you don’t know me, my troubles or spirit…
[/quote]

Funny, you berate me for making generalization about you, but then throughout the posts you make generalization about me and blacks as a whole. This kind of thing will get us nowhere.

I am not out to trivialize the struggle of your familiy and the people from your home country. I applaud the accomplishments. What I was trying to say is that it didn’t happen here. Your family had the ability to go somewhere better and earn a life for yourselves away from that environment. What I am saying is that blacks are in that environment right now. Did your family stay in that oppressive environment and try to work within it, or did they leave? We already know the answer. The blacks you are looking at in NO are in that environment. Some of them are lazy but some of them just did not have an understanding of how to do better or that they can even do better. This society is more open to accepting a “white” European than an American-born black person. Look at the USA’s history, it is an inheritanly racist country, period.

Unfortunately, I do not have the option of ignoring color like you do and this is why I make some of the statements that I do. There are intangibles that I deal with on a regular basis that you and many other whites would have no idea about. That is the ONLY reason that I lumped you in with other whites. Based on your statements only, the understanding does not come across.

You seem like a generally good person that truly tries to look at people as people, but there are just some things you will never understand beyond the first layer and it is because you won’t experience them to the level that I have. I’m not saying that you can’t relate, and I appreciate the empathy, I am saying that you will not have a true, full understanding. Much like I would not understand what you went through. The difference is that I am not saying that those who didn’t leave your family’s home country did do so because they are lazy. Making these kinds of statements is what adds fuel to the fire. I do not have to know you, your troubles or your spirit enough to show respect for you and your people as human beings and not make blanket statements about being lazy.

As far as my opinion on how blacks are portrayed in the media, I’m sorry but there is too much evidence out there to just blow that off as “they want to look tough”. White athletes don’t want to look tough? And maybe that was not a good example to illustrate my point of how blacks are viewed in the media as a whole. Unless we are entertaining the masses, no one believes that we can do anything positive. Those things don’t make good stories.

By the way, Racism, to quote Webster’s is “belief in the superiority of one’s own race. Discrimination based on this belief.” I never said that blacks were superior nor do blacks in this country have the ability to discriminate based on this belief. That implies power that we as a people just do not have. I will accept being called prejudiced, which is a “preconceived opinion, bias.” Notice it doesn’t mention race, which means everyone posting on this topic falls under this definition.

So I’m guessing by all the posts by those who chose to disagree with me that blacks should just “get over it”. And you wonder why this country is in such a state of confusion.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
The gov’t paid the actual people that were in internment camps. Not too many actual former slaves around. Paying people who were not slaves is just another handout. Besides, IMO reparations were already paid. The little thing called the Civil War.

Oh, how about for the Tuskeegee experiment? That wasn’t even that many years ago and some of those people are still alive. You did know about this, right? This is another one of those things where we have experienced the exact same things as every other race, isn’t it? This just ended in the late 70’s and early 80’s, by the way. Not one President until Clinton even gave an apology for it.

Can we at least give these families reparations? Is that considered “not working” as well?

I’d support that 100%.
[/quote]

Then let’s move forward. I think there is no right way to actually give monetary reparations for the atrocity of slavery. I think it would be an impossible undertaking that could have potentially extremely negative consequences. This is where I disagree with what I heard from Farakhan. However, if any of you are so duped as to believe that this is his entire message, then you yourselves are victims of a machine in America that seems to be gaining strength lately…the ability to fool large groups of people into believing falsehoods about the message of anyone who thinks differently than those currently in power in our government. We have had at least two solid examples of this in this thread alone.

You don’t correct the damage done by telling people to effectively get over it. You correct it by dealing with the causes of the problem and presenting more facilities for aid for those who need it. I agree that welfare may need to change, but it by no means needs to be disbanded all because some refuse to admit that long lasting damage was done that you can’t just get over in all cases.

This is an American problem, not a problem of black people.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Ridiculous statement. It only holds truth if the victim is no longer dealing with any outward affliction. It is like telling a rape victim, who still gets raped occasionally, to get over it. It is something you don’t understand because you refuse to understand it. It isn’t that it is beyond your capability.

No, it’s perfectly valid. If sombody is disciminated against tody, there is a legal remedy for it. Using your anology, how are blacks be “raped” by the gov’t today?[/quote]

It isn’t “the gov’t” that is the problem in this instance. It is everyone who has any power over another while holding extremely biased and racist views whether hidden or toned down in public. A legal remedy? That system is only guaranteed to work on the rich.