Don’t worry folks, it’s only modest encroachments on privacy, it’s not major just minor. Nothing to see here, move along.
What’s interesting is the article that had the quote wasn’t even about the phone surveillance issue. If just happened to be in there. I don’t know, it’s as if the media, out of a modicum of responsibility feels that they need to report it, but hide it so nobody makes their guy really look bad. I find the two paragraphs rather alarming. The president himself is admitting to encroachments on privacy. He calls them modest, but really who draws that line?
This is Soviet style politics at work and if you don’t see it, you are blind, stupid or both. I don’t care where you stand politically, this should scare you. After what was Nixon run out of office for? Why invasion of privacy, of course. But this sweeping under the rug of increasing revelations about political and religious targeting, phone records searches, search engine records, email subpoenas, etc. is getting a little scary.
[i]"And what a week it has been for the Obama administration. Faced with criticism from the right and left over reports of the National Security Agency’s surveillance of phone and internet records, the president’s administration has played defense in the last couple of days over what was supposed to be a classified program.
Obama himself defended the program after finishing his health care speech, answering a question from a reporter and describing the records as “modest encroachments on privacy” that “help us prevent terrorist attacks.” [/i]
This ‘modest encroachment’ is scarier than the stupid terrorists.
Everyone needs to email their reps, nothing will happen if we just bitch in this forum. I can’t imagine anyone defending this in either party. Speak up guys and gals.
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.[/quote]
I think the scandal lies in the fact that it is apparently legal, or at least sanctioned by courts.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.[/quote]
I think the scandal lies in the fact that it is apparently legal, or at least sanctioned by courts. [/quote]
Well, I’m thinking more along the lines of ‘possible trail to impeachment’ when ‘scandal’ comes up.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.[/quote]
I think the scandal lies in the fact that it is apparently legal, or at least sanctioned by courts. [/quote]
Well, I’m thinking more along the lines of ‘possible trail to impeachment’ when ‘scandal’ comes up.
[/quote]
The mystery to me is that anyone is surprised here.
The NSA and FISA programs were “well known” and operational years ago. The set-up was this: in order to find anomalous electronic transmissions which might relate to terrorism, one has to establish a “norm.” So the statisticians in the NSA needed billions of transmissions to establish what would be “normal:” which phone numbers, countries, words. (Is “blitz” a term of terrorism, and “blintz” served for brunch?)
The real scandal is that it became legal when such information is not stripped of identifying parameters: if transmissions are tied to individuals, that violates Fourth Amendment rights. The broad dragnet made legal by FISA courts is what is truly scandalous.
Oh come on 'nuffsaid. I dont know this website and have never heard of it before, but i don’t trust the source at all. I mean, i though moveon.org and kos/huffpost were bad… That doesn’t even read like a journalist, expose or not. It reads like a combination of conspiracy theory and aspiring novelist.
I have never had any doubt about gov’t (any govt, not just ours but including ours) having the ability or will to slide into the kind of thing he’s talking about. That is, after all, why we were founded on limited gov’t principles and it is part of all human nature in general whether it is business or gov’t or military. But please, post something that is remotely believable as journalism, this is ridiculous.
Gotta love the Patriot Act. We re-elected the guy who brought it about it and then re-elected his successor who extended it. We’re getting exactly what we signed up for!
[quote]H factor wrote:
Gotta love the Patriot Act. We re-elected the guy who brought it about it and then re-elected his successor who extended it. We’re getting exactly what we signed up for! [/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.[/quote]
I think the scandal lies in the fact that it is apparently legal, or at least sanctioned by courts. [/quote]
Well, I’m thinking more along the lines of ‘possible trail to impeachment’ when ‘scandal’ comes up.
[/quote]
I am thinking more along the lines of not caring what sock puppet is front and center.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Here’s the problem, so far as I can tell there is no scandal. It’s all perfectly legal as far as the courts seem to be concerned. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seriously rethink the Patriot Act, PRISM, and legislation/programs that followed 9-11. Or, reconsider trade offs between privacy and security in general. We should. Now Obama has obviously flip-flopped on these issues, and that’s fair criticism. But scandalous as in illegal? I don’t see it. Nor is he and the Democrats alone on this.[/quote]
There is a scandal in that it was happening in secret. The NSA guy who leaked it was so appalled at what was happening that he risked everything to leak it.
He was on the inside, he saw what was going on, he was alarmed enough to risk his whole existence to expose it. That’s brave.
I trust that someone willing to do that, based on what he saw the government doing saw something wrong with it. He saw a massive invasion of privacy.
A revelation so profound that the President himself could not deny, but just try to skirt it by calling it a ‘modest invasion of privacy’. To me it’s like being pregnant, you either are or are not. Our privacy is being invaded, or it’s not. The president admitted it is.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
Everyone needs to email their reps, nothing will happen if we just bitch in this forum. I can’t imagine anyone defending this in either party. Speak up guys and gals. [/quote]
Correct. I got emails to all my reps sent and delivered.